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Comments
I included a link to one of the threads here:
http://www.hyundai-forums.com/229-sonata-yf-hybrid/
Anyone else having issues with gas mileage?
Our car’s last tankfull was 36.4 mpg calculated with the wife driving 90% on a 80 mile round trip commute. She doesn’t employ any hypermiling techniques; I do and routinely get at or over 40mpg summer or winter. Best segment ever was 50.5mpg (display) for a 75 drive back from the Blue Ridge Parkway
The bottom line is . . . . .
it ain’t the cars.
Same principle applies to a golf ball...had that discussion with golf pro last weekend. At some times of the year we may feel relatively warm at 45*, but the golf ball is still 45* and doesn't go a far as it does in the 60's or higher.
The good thing about hybrids are that you'll get decent mileage no matter how you drive. With my 2010 Prius I used to get 45-55 all the time and due to the low power of that car I floored it a lot. This one obviously is a bit lower but again even with very aggressive driving I can't see myself getting less than 30mpg.
Your numbers are definitely 5mpg too low on both sides even with less than ideal driving style. Are you sure your tires have enough pressure? Not too much extra weight in the vehicle? Car's alignment and tire balance is still good? Did you leave your seat warmers (front and back) on? AC on all the time?
Please include your daytime contact information and a few words about the decision you made.
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Drove 175 miles early one morning last week.
For first two hours temp never got above 26 (F) and the last hour it never got above freezing.
60 - 65, cruise = slightly over 37mpg.
No hypermiling just cruising.
Later that day drove the 175 back home w/ temp at 52 - 53.
Got almost 40mpg on that leg.
Cindi
http://www.hyundai-forums.com/229-sonata-yf-hybrid/
Join that forum and send him a pm w/ your vin #.
He has helped others get issues resolved.
His specialty is the powertrain.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/221067819435?hlp=false
13-FL-004
HEV MULTI-ECU UPDATE – VERSION 2
Description:
This bulletin provides information related to a software update of the following controllers: ECM/TCM/HCU/MCU/AHB/OPU by GDS Event#302, and BMS by Event#303.
This ECU Update will refine vehicle drivability, HEV transaxle shifts, and cruise control.
Applicable Vehicles: 2011-2012MY SONATA (YF) 2.4L Hybrid Electric Vehicle (HEV)
In order to get this you need to complaign about hesitation and jerking situations. HSH owners who have had this done report Hyundai has fixed their problems.
This TSB will make your hybrid's acceleration much smoother, especially during the cold first start up of the day.
You must complain to your dealer about the jerkiness and hesitation in order for them to install this repair. It personally has helped me and many others with drivability issues.
http://www.hyundai-forums.com/229-sonata-yf-hybrid/162191-new-multi-ecu-update.h- tml
You have to actually complain about those symptoms to the dealer to have this installed, as it is not a recall, but a TSB.
1. More powerful electric motor with output up from 30 kw on 2011- 2012 to 35 kw on the 2013s.
More torque.
2. Smaller yet more powerful lithium-polymer battery pack that ups the battery discharge power significantly from 34 kw to 47 kw on the 2013 model.
More power.
3. Updated Hybrid Starter Generator from 8.5 kW to 10.5 kW of capacity to provide more charging capacity and seamless electric starts.
Smoother.
Hyundai also improved the hybrid system clutch control, vehicle response by throttle tuning, as well as optimizing regenerative braking shift pattern, and decreasing friction in the compact six-speed transmission.
Both lead the industry.
The introduction of the Kinetic Energy Recovery System that will eventually make every future Formula One race car a hybrid began in ’09.
F1 teams may use KERS to draw 60 Kw from the rear axle, store that energy and reuse it by pushing a 'boost' button. Basically the system uses regeneration to collect and store energy during braking.
The system allows the drivers to use 60 Kw (82 hp) for 6.6 seconds per lap. The system is fairly conventional, using a single 60 Kw liquid cooled brushless direct current motor / generator unit. The motor is attached to the front of the 2.4 liter V8 and driven by a reduction gear off the crankshaft.
Also included in the system is a KERS control unit, separate from the Microsoft supplied FIA engine control unit. The battery pack is mounted at the bottom of the fuel cell and in the case of Ferrari is supplied by French Li-ion battery maker Saft.
I remember early in the Toyotas hybrid rollout, and especially after the Highlander Hybrids were introduced, when rumors of rescue personnel being killed by hybrid components were common.
A Li-Polymer type battery is used for the Sonata Hybrid.
The basic function of the battery system is to store, in chemical form, electric energy obtained either from the engine or regeneration and supply the stored energy as needed.
Additionally, it has to manage input and output power based on the state-of-charge (SOC). The BMS (battery management system) performs accurate estimations of battery status and controls the temperature appropriately.
Compared to conventional first gen NiMH batteries for hybrids, the Li-Polymer type battery of the Sonata Hybrid has a better performance in the power/energy density by weight and volume, self-discharge rate, life cycle, cold weather characteristics, SOC estimation etc.
http://www.atz-worldwide.com/index.php?mode=textansicht&articleKey=atzw-010-0462- - -7&issueKey=2&volumeKey=2011&smart42SID=s292et2tk0rsnjgi81nqp0c9r3&smart42SID=s2- - 92et2tk0rsnjgi81nqp0c9r3
Description: This bulletin describes the procedure to replace the rear lower control arms on some Sonata (YF), Sonata Hybrid (YF HEV), and Azera (HG) vehicles.
Applicable Vehicles: SONATA (YF), SONATA HYBRID (YF HEV) AZERA (HG).
YF Sonata (MY 2011, 2012, 2013)
16" wheel vehicles: Job #1 to Jan 7, 2011
17/18" wheel vehicles: Job #1 to April 5, 2012
YF HEV Sonata Hybrid (MY 2011 AND 2012)
Job #1 to April 4, 2012
HG Azera (MY 2012)
Job #1 to April 4, 2012
Area: Salt belt states, fleet, and regional company vehicles.
USA salt belt areas: Connecticut, Delaware, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Vermont, West Virginia, Wisconsin, and the District of Columbia.
This basically uses "acoustic felt" and Loctite to secure the sunroof cross-members to stop the creaking.
GROUP
NUMBER
BODY (Interior & Exterior)
13-BD-002
DATE
MODEL
AUGUST 2013
2012 ¡V 2013 SONATA
(YF & YF-HEV)
SONATA PANORAMIC SUNROOF NOISE
Applicable Vehicles:
MY12~13 SONATA equipped with panoramic sunroof
„h Produced from June 1, 2011 to August 7, 2013
MY12 SONATA HEV
„h Produced from June 1, 2011 to May 1, 2012
Another bump for all 2011-2012 Sonata Hybrid owners who have not had the latest TSB 13-FL-004 performed. It enhances drivability and stops the cold start jerkiness and hesitation.
You have to actually complain about those symptoms to the dealer to have this installed, as it is not a recall, but a TSB.
My wife has a 2012 Sonata 2.4 Limited and gets 37mpg on the highway all the time. I am not sure what the advantage of the Sonata hybrid is?
Just as a general observation, the hybrid will have a larger effect on mileage during city/stop & go driving since the engine will be shut down more often. On the highway, I assume that individual driving styles & conditions will play more into how often the ICE shuts down.
I had the update performed in November and notice immediate improvement initially. As the weather began getting colder the performance and operating characteristics began to deteriorate. Has anyone noticed any cold related symptoms?
When it is cold and I first start the car the, gas engine runs for several minutes even with a 1/2 to 3/4 charge on the Batt, at stop lights and going down it is still running. When it does finally switch to Batt, the Inst MPG shows 25 MPG because the gas engine is still running.The first couple of times you breathe on the accelerator the engine races.I have even had the engine restart by itself after turning it off.
When the weather is below freezing this may go on for the entire trip (half hour or more). Now that we are back in the 40's the symptoms seem to last only 5 or 10 mins. The dealer says that this is normal on start up for the engine to run for a few mins until the engine warms up.I drove about 30 miles tonight and watched the temp gauge settle in at just under 50% and the car ran normal. When I started up to make the return trip I noted that the temp gauge was barely off of cold, maybe 5% off cold. The gas engine did not start and I drove about 1/2 mile on Batt.
The entire return trip was freeway and normal. MPG appeared normal, and at 70 mph I made it home with 39 MPG indicated which is pretty typical, but actually computes to something closer to 37. Never gotten much better on the freeway since new and city is typically somewhere between 27 and 30. Any comparisons out there?.
Cold weather and winter blends of fuels will affect your mileage. The cold weather is probably causing the engine to run more to get the engine up to operating temperature. I would imagine that in a hybrid with the engine shutting down periodically, it would take a bit longer for the engine temp to come up compared to a non-hybrid.
I am waiting for the store to get another hybrid in and I want to see if the engine runs on startup. The mechanic thought that the engine was running to get up to temp to improve emissions. Well that strikes me as strange. If I have a full battery, would it not make more sense and less emissions to run on Battery longer? I can't believe that running on gas for 5 to 15 mins provides fewer emissions than running intermittently.
The engine runs more efficiently at operating temperature, and I assume that the sooner it gets there, the better. It does seem a little counter intuitive, but take it to an extreme to illustrate. If the engine never got up to temp, it would always be operating less efficiently than it should. If over the course of a day, the engine was going to run for an hour during your driving, the 5 to 15 minutes of running would "set up" the other 45 - 55 minutes of running efficiently. If the engine didn't warm up, the entire hour would be using more gas and creating more emmissions than it should.
The EPA requires that the catalytic converter be hot enough to reduce emissions. If the cat never warmed up, the emissions would be wrong (it depends on a LOT of heat to work). This has always been an issue to me with my FEH; if I want to move it from the front of the house to the back, it SHOULD never have to run the engine - but it always runs.
If the engine is already warm, my FEH will shut off after a few seconds.
EDIT: My FEH is a 2008; there was an update to the Escape for 2009 and later (but I think they also work that way). From what I have read, the Toyota HSD system will startup on battery if the engine was previously warm, and uses a thermos style container to hold hot engine coolant to help keep everything up to temperature faster.
What stevedebi said
I cannot believe that no one else has noticed the problem with the engine running on start up. Before the update, my Sonata would operate on battery whether hot or cold and the engine would not start until the battery would deplete down to about 2/5's charge. I cannot see how having the engine running at all can improve the emissions output. If I can drive all the way to the local 7/11 on battery (mostly down hill) it makes no sense to start the engine. I can't even maneuver in a parking lot without the engine on if it is cold out.
I must have a component problem if my hybrid is operating differently from others. To me it does not make sense for my hybrid to run on gas at a stoplight when a gas engine car will shut off at the same light. This happens in winter weather after half an hour of operation. Except for the frustration of backing out of my garage with the engine running when I have 3/4 battery indicated, which will only last for 5 min now that the temp is heading for 50 degrees out, I will be ok through the Summer, but come next Winter I am going to get real grumpy again.
Hopefuly someone out there has some solution come to mind before it gets cold again. Oh yeah and the engine racing for a couple of seconds the first time you touch the accelerator is getting old fast. Are you all sure that this is normal? Are you all having the same drive characteristics?
Catalytic converters have to be HOT to do their job of burning off pollutants. Engines run more efficiently once they've come up to operating temperature. The thermostat in the coolant system stays closed and keeps coolant from going to the radiator until the engine temp reaches a certain level. And when it's cold out, it takes longer for the catalytic converter to heat up and the thermostat to open. Combustion in the engine is the source of the heat. When it's colder, it makes sense that a hybrid's engine would run longer until everything is up to efficient operating temperature.
The update obviously changed the way your hybrid operated during cold weather months, but I'd bet that the net result is lower emissions and better mileage in the cold weather than you would have had without the update.
I own a 2012 Sonota Hybrid Limited. I am currently getting 24mpg in city driving. I have done all of the service upgrades recommended by this forum and it's readers. I met with a field rep today to discuss the poor mileage. He told me as long as I get 23mpg or better Hyundai won't do anything for me. I have spent numerous hours on the phone with Hyundai and several trips to dealerships without any effect. Sorry, that is not good enough...this is the third Hyundai we have purchased since 2010. One would think Hyundai would value me as a customer. Apparently not. Too bad....I like the car other than the mileage. Going forward it will be my mission to let as many people know that Hyundai does not stand behind their product or their customers. Unfortunately, due to my lease, I can't sell the car without a loss. As soon as I am able I will sell the car and NEVER again buy a Hyundai or Kia vehicle.
OKAY....I am done with my rant.............
24 mpg! That is astonishing. I get 29 on my AWD Ford Escape Hybrid in town. Something is wrong there.
24 does seem far enough outside of the fueleconomy.gov numbers that something might be amiss.
"Your mileage may vary" does cover a lot of ground. Note that at least one person is reporting 27, so I sort of understand why their threshold might be "we'll act at 23 MPG" (about 15% lower than that low report) , but the unofficial average people are reporting is 34.4 mpg.
Sure seems like something is going on.
Just checking... are you calculating the mileage by filling up, driving a decent portion of the tank, filling up again, and calculating miles driven divided by gallons? Or are you relying on an onboard mileage calculator? You can only know what you're mileage is for certain by doing the math! (It's sort of like how I don't rely on the gas gauge to let me know how full my tank is. I know how far I can go on a full tank by using the trip odometer. Much more accurate)
I bought a Sonata Hybrid July 7, 2011 and went through a recall Oct 26, 2011. 2013 I could not start the car, I live in CA towed it in and dealer said their system found nothing wrong however their electronic system activated the car automatically when it came on the lot. July 30,2014 we were about to go out and the car died in the intersection only a few feet from the house. Return car home it would not go up the little driveway so we had the car towed.
Dealer said they did an update called EVEN 303 & 302 PER TSB whatever that means. Dealer said it had to update the brain. That sound weird and dangerous if a car need that and dies on you.
Gas mileage. As the original owner I received a letter from Corp stating to get the mileage driven register by the dealer and then it is submitted to Corp. Once registered Corp send a Debit card. I got about $43.09 based on starting at 14 miles, ending at 12,187. I just register again today 7/31/2014 with 24,000. I hope this help some of you.