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Horrible rattle sound at start on 2011 Lacrosse CX
When I start my car (cold) i'm getting a horrible rattling sound from under the hood that last up to a couple of seconds. It sounds like a loud diesel engine firing up. This happens when the engine (4 cyl Ecotec) is cold, or after it has sat a little while.
Is anyone else seeing this?
Is anyone else seeing this?
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I apologize for your concerns. Have you spoke with a GM dealer yet? If not I would definitely recommend doing so. They will be able to asses the rattle you are hearing.
Christina
GM Customer Service
Is it metal on metal sound or otherwise. Perhaps someone can start while you observe with hood open. Keep hands, clothing, etc. clear of underhood area.
Hope your dealer gets you straight.
I would encourage you to have your vehicle looked at by your local GM dealership. Please keep me posted on any information.
Thank you,
Caron, GM Customer Service
A quick google of this problem with the GM Ecotec 4 cylinder, will yield dozens of threads on other forums with others having the same issue. I just can't believe that a solution isn't known, so that we all don't have to spend countless hours having our cars investigated for a known issue.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QeuWWJ7BjaU
Although the many problems I've found are not all electronic, many of them are. There excuses of it 'being' because of newness of electronics just does not measure up.
Most of these newly available technologies are not new. They have just reached the point of mass production pricing that suits customers or federally mandated.
If it is a design issue of hardware, then they either poorly pieced together or reduced the spec requirements to an unreliably low level.
If it is manufacturing, then they don't have the needed quality assurance in place.
These newer electronic systems, if computer is involved, it is just hardware, firmware, & software like any other computer and should be at least as reliable as a PC, which these days has very few problems. Because the auto's system is specific, that is you don't frequently add or remove new programs, most problems should be curable.
Personally, I start to wonder if it is a problem of supplying clean power to these systems at all times. Such was the issue with the missing diodes, spikes introduced on the power.
I had asked my service manager about possible reliability of BMW or Mercedes which they also sell. He thought they were having way to many issues with this newer equipment as well. One of the owners thought a Cadillac would suit me because they are less effort to drive and have high reliability. Yesterday after finishing appointments for my back, I drove by dealer. I was amazed how many Lacrosses they had in the used area and stopped there. Shortly a sales lady came out. I told her what I wanted basically, a road car that rode very well. She ushered me to where they had a pair of DX (I think), full sized sedan with Northstar Aurora engines. She started rambling a bit about features when we climbed in and prepared for a test drive. She got stuck on OnStar, trying to sell a plan, and bragging about it's phone connection via satelite. (Obviously don't know crap) But I was in it long enough to determine the seats were too hard and poorly supportive. They are cooled and I read a review that stated cooled seats are often not very functional and not as comfortable. It seems that is likely true, although the Lincoln I sat in was far more comfortable and softer.
I go to the showroom with curiosity about the new ones. They only had one Caddy automobile inside and it was a two door, sporty looking model with 3.6L. I was not interested in it, but talking to the sales manager, he suggested I sit in it to find out about seats. I think, possibly, that the seats in the Lacrosse are better or at least comparable. After settling into the small amount of padding, you felt the hardness of something. Again, cooled seats. I played with the lumbar. I can not believe it. An expensive vehicle like this only has one air bag in the seat. Although it still has the same stupid design for headrests, it at least did not push forward on shoulder areas, but was still lacking support for the mid-thoracic area. Not as badly as Lacrosse which can be blamed on upper bag being too low. (It is higher in Regal).
Although out of my price range, according to ad, Lexus uses an automatic headrest which moves forward in an accident. I will check it out.
Although the many problems I've found are not all electronic, many of them are. There excuses of it 'being' because of newness of electronics just does not measure up.
Most of these newly available technologies are not new. They have just reached the point of mass production pricing that suits customers or federally mandated.
If it is a design issue of hardware, then they either poorly pieced together or reduced the spec requirements to an unreliably low level.
If it is manufacturing, then they don't have the needed quality assurance in place.
These newer electronic systems, if computer is involved, it is just hardware, firmware, & software like any other computer and should be at least as reliable as a PC, which these days has very few problems. Because the auto's system is specific, that is you don't frequently add or remove new programs, most problems should be curable.
Personally, I start to wonder if it is a problem of supplying clean power to these systems at all times. Such was the issue with the missing diodes, spikes introduced on the power.
I had asked my service manager about possible reliability of BMW or Mercedes which they also sell. He thought they were having way to many issues with this newer equipment as well. One of the owners thought a Cadillac would suit me because they are less effort to drive and have high reliability. Yesterday after finishing appointments for my back, I drove by dealer. I was amazed how many Lacrosses they had in the used area and stopped there. Shortly a sales lady came out. I told her what I wanted basically, a road car that rode very well. She ushered me to where they had a pair of DX (I think), full sized sedan with Northstar Aurora engines. She started rambling a bit about features when we climbed in and prepared for a test drive. She got stuck on OnStar, trying to sell a plan, and bragging about it's phone connection via satelite. (Obviously don't know crap) But I was in it long enough to determine the seats were too hard and poorly supportive. They are cooled and I read a review that stated cooled seats are often not very functional and not as comfortable. It seems that is likely true, although the Lincoln I sat in was far more comfortable and softer.
I go to the showroom with curiosity about the new ones. They only had one Caddy automobile inside and it was a two door, sporty looking model with 3.6L. I was not interested in it, but talking to the sales manager, he suggested I sit in it to find out about seats. I think, possibly, that the seats in the Lacrosse are better or at least comparable. After settling into the small amount of padding, you felt the hardness of something. Again, cooled seats. I played with the lumbar. I can not believe it. An expensive vehicle like this only has one air bag in the seat. Although it still has the same stupid design for headrests, it at least did not push forward on shoulder areas, but was still lacking support for the mid-thoracic area. Not as badly as Lacrosse which can be blamed on upper bag being too low. (It is higher in Regal).
Although out of my price range, according to ad, Lexus uses an automatic headrest which moves forward in an accident. I will check it out.
In one of the videos, it sounded as if the AC pump kicked in after a couple of seconds and too did not sound right. Really hard to say they are two separate sounds or a combination. If the pump is making that sound, it sounds like it is on its way out. You definitely should not hear a rattling sound from the AC system. Is it possible that a bracket or such is loose?
Does the sound seem to be internal? My next guess would be that the VVT system is involved. Possibly not getting enough oil flow/pressure to the valve train and timing mechanism upon start. Or the VVT system is being slow to settle into a smooth timing position.
Does it only happen on cold start? What happens on a restart, cold or hot?
Have you tried different fuels?
As I said, hard to tell from video, but I wonder if it could be the exhaust resonating in the front part of the exhaust system. Unlike previous EGR systems, this one works by keeping the exhaust valves open extra long, into part of the intake stroke and sucking some of the expelled exhaust back into the engine. That is you are suddenly reversing the flow of the exhaust. Have you ever heard water pipes hammer when you rapidly close a faucet?
Does it sound like the noise may be coming from the pre-converter located immediately off the exhaust manifold? The catalytic material inside may be vibrating until the heat expands everything to a tight fit. And if that is the situation, it probably will get worse with time, over the years.
Per GM:
This bulletin has been revised to include parts, service procedure, and labor time for
repairs to customer vehicles. Please discard all copies of bulletin 11195, issued June
2011
Recall 11195A applies to:
2011 Buick LaCrosse, Regal
2011 Chevrolet Equinox
2011 GMC Terrain
Equipped with a 2.4L Gas Engine (LAF)
Other pertinent data from the Recall:
Please read Line Item #5
This simply notes the States whose Emission Laws require that an Emission Recall Correction Sticker must be afixed to the vehicle upon completion of the work. Please note that in addition to the sticker, in California a Certificate of completion is also required...as noted at the bottom of the Recall notice.
Line Item #5 should NOT be construed as to limit the scope of correction to those states. That is why it is listed after the repair procedures.
CONDITION
General Motors has decided to conduct a Voluntary Emission Recall involving certain 2011
Buick LaCrosse, Regal; Chevrolet Equinox; and GMC Terrain vehicles equipped with a 2.4L
gas engine (LAF). On these vehicles, the camshaft position actuator solenoid may stick,
resulting in the illumination of the malfunction indicator light, rough idle, poor driveability,
and/or possible stalling at low throttle opening.
CORRECTION
Dealers are to reprogram the engine control module, and if necessary, replace the camshaft
position actuator solenoid valves.
VEHICLES INVOLVED
Involved are certain 2011 model year Buick LaCrosse, Regal; Chevrolet Equinox; and GMC
Terrain vehicles equipped with a 2.4L gas engine (LAF).
Important: Dealers are to confirm vehicle eligibility prior to beginning repairs by using the
Required Field Actions section in the Global Warranty system. Not all vehicles
may be involved.
For dealers with involved vehicles, a listing with involved vehicles containing the complete
vehicle identification number, customer name, and address information has been prepared
and will be provided to US and Canadian dealers through the GM GlobalConnect Recall
Page 2 August 2011 Bulletin No.: 11195A
Reports, or sent directly to export dealers. Dealers will not have a report available if they
have no involved vehicles currently assigned.
The listing may contain customer names and addresses obtained from Motor Vehicle
Registration Records. The use of such motor vehicle registration data for any purpose other
than follow-up necessary to complete this recall is a violation of law in several
states/provinces/countries. Accordingly, you are urged to limit the use of this report to the
follow-up necessary to complete this recall.
PART INFORMATION
Parts required to complete this recall are to be obtained from General Motors Customer Care
and Aftersales (GMCC&A). Please refer to your “involved vehicles listing” before ordering
parts. Normal orders should be placed on a DRO = Daily Replenishment Order. In an
emergency situation, parts should be ordered on a CSO = Customer Special Order.
Part Number Description Quantity/Vehicle
12628347 Valve, Cm/Shf Posn Actr Int Sol 1 (If Req'd)
12628348 Valve, Cm/Shf Posn Actr Exh Sol 1 (If Req'd)
SERVICE PROCEDURE
1. Determine the vehicle status.
If the vehicle is still in dealer inventory, reprogram the ECM with the latest calibration.
Refer to ECM Programming in this bulletin. Do NOT replace the camshaft position
actuator solenoid valves.
If the vehicle has been delivered to the customer, reprogram the ECM and replace the
camshaft position actuator solenoid valves. Refer to Engine Controls - Camshaft
Position Actuator Solenoid Valve Replacement in SI.
ECM Programming
Do not attempt to order the calibration number from GM Customer Care and Aftersales. The
calibration numbers required for this service procedure are programmed into control modules
via a Multiple Diagnostic Interface (MDI) or Tech 2® diagnostic scan tool and TIS2WEB with
the calibration update. Use TIS2WEB on or after 6/23/11 to obtain the calibration. If you
cannot access the calibration, call the Techline Customer Support Center at 1-800-828-6860
(English) or 1-800-503-3222 (French) and it will be provided. Make sure your Tech 2®
diagnostic scan tool is updated with the latest software version or verify that the multiple
diagnostic interface (MDI) that is being used is configured to the PC that will be used. Clear
any codes and verify the condition has been corrected.
For step-by-step programming instructions, please refer to SI and the Techline Information
System (TIS) terminal.
1. Verify that there is a battery charge of 12 to 15 volts. The battery must be able to
maintain a charge during programming. Only use an approved Midtronics® PSC 550
Battery Maintainer (SPS Programming Support Tool EL-49642) or equivalent to maintain
proper battery voltage during programming.
Page 3 August 2011 Bulletin No.: 11195A
2. Reprogram the engine control module (ECM). Refer to SI and Service Programming
System (SPS) documentation for programming instructions, if required.
2.1 Connect the MDI to the vehicle. Connect the MDI to the programming terminal with
a cable (USB or LAN).
2.2 Select J2534 MDI and Reprogram ECU from the Select Diagnostic Tool and
Programming Process screen.
2.3 Select ECM Engine Control Module—Programming from the Supported Controllers
screen.
2.4 Follow the on-screen instructions.
3. Clear all DTCs.
4. If the vehicle has been delivered to the customer, replace the camshaft position actuator
solenoid valves. Refer to Engine Controls - Camshaft Position Actuator Solenoid Valve
Replacement in SI.
5. CALIFORNIA, CONNECTICUT, MARYLAND, MASSACHUSETTS, MAINE, OREGON,
VERMONT, & WASHINGTON vehicles only: Install a Recall Identification Label.
RECALL IDENTIFICATION LABEL - California/Connecticut/Maryland/Massachusetts/Maine/
Oregon/Vermont/Washington Vehicles Only
Place a Recall Identification Label on each vehicle corrected in accordance with the
instructions outlined in this Product Recall Bulletin. Each label provides a space to include
the recall number and the five-digit dealer code of the dealer performing the recall service.
This information may be inserted with a ballpoint pen.
Put the Recall Identification Label on a clean and dry surface of the
radiator core support in an area that will be visible to people servicing
the vehicle.
When installing the Recall Identification Label, be sure to pull the tab to
allow adhesion of the clear protective covering. Additional Recall
Identification Labels for US dealers can be obtained from Dealer Support
Materials by ordering on the web from DWD Store,
www.gmdealerworld.com, and then click on the DWD Store link.
Request Item Number S-1015 when ordering.
GM
RECALL
COMPLETED
DEA LER CODE
DO NOT REMOVE
11195
99-999
COURTESY TRANSPORTATION – For US and C