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Jeep Wrangler



  • ravagerravager Posts: 20
    You need to cancel that deal. If you're that unhappy now, you will be miserable after the new car smell goes away.
    Save your money and buy the suv you really want.
  • redrocker15redrocker15 Posts: 102
    I'm in agreement with Mac and Ravager; you should ditch this deal. You should be able to find another YJ that already has A/C since that seems to be your biggest reason for trading in the 1st place. If so, you could even keep your beloved '91 Wrangler (and still be money ahead). Regardless, you could avoid the features and geoemtries you hate about the TJ. Is it an option to have A/C added to your '91? Good luck with your decision!
  • mtngalmtngal Posts: 1,911
    I agree with everyone else - you are going to be putting a whole bunch of money into a new car, then more money to tear it apart. Redrocker's suggestion about adding A/C to your YJ sounds like what I'd pursue. We put A/C into an '88 Nissan Hardbody once and while it wasn't what I would call "cheap" - it was a whole lot cheaper than a new car!
  • scott919scott919 Posts: 17
    6 years ago I installed a/c on my 95 yj myself. Not too complicated. The kit was $1250 that came with everything needed and cost me $50 to get the system charged at my local garage. Once again these are 6 year old prices if that helps any at all.
  • karlw90karlw90 Posts: 59
    Thanks for the advice. I guess I'm just gonna have to eat my tires. As you did, I will demand some money for my spare, since it is basically brand new.

    By the way, my hard top dolly comes in on Monday!! I can't WAIT to go topless. Chicago weather is usually completely unpredictable, yet the past 5 days have been... SUN!
  • Let me know how you like your dolly, I've ordered one as well, and hope to get it in with-in the next week... Guess they've been on back-order for a while now.


    P.S. Do you know if any of the wheels can be "locked" in place? That's be helpful when trying to drop the top down on the dolly.
  • koolbreeze2koolbreeze2 Posts: 252
    Mac, I agree with you. He should not get the Unlimited. Get what makes you happy. There is a '59 for sale up from my condo.. Might be the perfect match. I had 2 of the old, no frills Jeeps. They were alot of fun and I wish I still had one sittin in the garage. But for every day-----thats a personal preference. John
  • rpinks_99rpinks_99 Posts: 6
    Do you have acess to dirt roads?

    Oh, my gosh, I had to laugh at the question...not at you. I'm in Alabama, and I think the founders invented the notorious red dirt, which is...everywhere....

    It just looks horrible on any body color, and particularly the undercarriage. That's probably why, subconsciously, I picked Red for eXcalibur's color (along with many of your recommendations). So, easy dirt roads..or...challenging ones, there's no way around it.....eXcalibur's gonna get red "stuff" all over her....

    On another topic, I attended my grandson's little league ball game yesterday, and ran into a guy driving what I estimated to be a mid-80's Wranger. Soft top completely removed, both doors off, and all-vinyl interior that apparently has seen lots of inclement weather.

    I was curious about his driving without the outside mirrors, and he gave a surprising...and interesting...answer. He said, "hummm....I never really thought about it. Guess I just turn around alot".

    Wasn't until I was in eXcalibur before the answer's potential impact hit me...does he even look behind him, other than the windshield mirror? Horrors! Alabama drivers are always a bit confused at times. You know that stick-thingy on the left side of our steering columns? You know---it sorta goes "click, click, click" when it is inadvertently pulled up or down? Most souls here somehow think it's a convenient place to hang air fresheners, extra keys, hair brushes, etc.

    Most are horrified...and confused...when they're told they are in truth an apparatus that, when used, will actually tell other drivers which way they're about to cut in front on them!

    Well, just a bit of southern anecdotes this morning. Going to be a sunny day here in Tuscaloosa, we go!

  • tsjaytsjay Posts: 4,591
    The TJ is a much more capable vehicle than any of its predecessors. The coil springs give MUCH more flex than do the leaf springs of earlier Jeeps. This means the tires stay in contact with the ground more of the time in going through obstacles than would be the case for the older Jeeps. (I am comparing stock TJ's to stock YJ's or older models. Older Jeeps can be modified to do anything that a TJ will, but I am comparing stock Jeeps here.)

    The fuel injection keeps the engine running when the Jeep is pointed straight up at the sky in a steep climb. I know the four banger YJ's were all fuel injected, and the 4.2 L six got fuel injection starting in 91, but the pre-YJ Jeeps had carburetors. Carburetors don't like steep angles: they want to flood the engine. I have seen older Jeeps have some real problems on the same climbs that I do with ease in Thelma Jane.

    I guess what I am saying is that I think DC and the previous owners of the Jeep brand have done a super good job of designing the succeeding generations of Jeeps to be true to their off road heritage, even to the point of enhancing their capabilities. I hope this will continue to be case for each new generation of the Jeep Wrangler, or whatever the short wheel base Jeep will be called, if they drop the "Wrangler" name.


    Have you hugged your Jeep today?
  • margfmargf Posts: 2
    Thank you, everyone, for your comments and advice. I've calmed down a little after spending some time with the loaner Sport, and have gone over it to see what, technically, I'll be able to do. It's pretty easily put together and I can do nearly everything myself, actually, so it won't cost much, relatively, to customize the Unlimited so that I'll be satisfied with it. We've just finished building our latest race car and I'm emboldened to go ahead with this. The only thing I'll need some help with is to have our fabricator make new seat brackets to fit the replacement seats that I'll want (upright, chair-type, not lounge chair as is presently in the vehicle). So the plan, loosely, is: replace the seats so that I'm sitting up and there's no extreme pressure on body parts. Probably make new seat covers (If I'm going to customize might as well have some fun with it, too! Have our friend make the new brackets to fit. Remove and store the back seat. It will never be needed. Remove the molded door panelling and replace with something straight and simple (I can do this myself). Remove the console from the cupholders back, including the speaker that would have been addressing a part of me that doesn't have ears. Replace with a console that actually is usable, and has accessible cupholders in the front only. Alter the console to accommodate the handbrake. Remove the front panelling under the instrument panel and cover the few wires with a newly designed and fabricated (by me) covering. Ditto the plastic beam running above foot level; relocate the light to the side over the driveshaft housing or just under what's left of the dash. Have a friend disconnect the airbags. I've been through the vehicle to see what's doable (without doing any damage to the loaner, that is! :blush:

    The dimensions specs for the Unlimited are nearly identical to those for my '91 YJ; it's just that for some reason Chrysler deemed it desirable to invade an already fairly small cockpit with extrusive molded this and rounded that. There's no apparent logic to most of the changes at all. The redesign seems to have been made specifically for tall males, and in stark contrast to my YJ, no longer accommodates drivers of different sizes (it was very flexible). My husband is 6'1" and I'm an average size adult female at 5'4" who can't use the seating that comes with the vehicle because it's too long and low. It seems that Jeep/Chrysler completely overlooked a good half or more of the potential drivers for this vehicle with the redesign. For anyone who might watch "Trading Spaces" on TLC, you might suspect that the redesign was done by Hildie! Also most of the interior is, frankly, pretty cheap, so I have no conscience about ripping it out.

    Within about a week and a half I should have a vehicle that will be mechanically sound, have the air that I so desperately need, and be something that I'm comfortable driving on a daily basis. I looked at many other vehicles over the past year and a half, and always came back to Jeep. What fooled me was that the dimensions published didn't cover those alterations that made the cabin unuseable, but which I'm going to fix. :mad:
  • jacknimblejacknimble Posts: 171
    Uuuhhh, are you SURE you want to do all these seemingly minor things and still end up with a vehicle that was not engineered properly from the beginning for your tastes and needs? I mean, no offense, but those things seem so trivial to me compared to how much more comfortable and capable a stock TJ is over earlier *Js. I really would hate to see someone get a Jeep that would never be happy with it, after all, we know they aren't for everyone - and, there is nothing wrong with that.

    Having said that, if that is all it takes, then go for it. Hope you have many happy miles in that Unlimited.
  • mac24mac24 Posts: 3,910
    Good luck with your project, though I can't see how you'll ever be happy with a vehicle the design of which you hold in such low esteem. I also can't see why you'd spend around $28k on a vehicle, modify the interior and rip out some of the safety systems, thereby severely reducing its value and adding potential liability and warranty issues, when your stated priority is to have a reliable vehicle with a/c. There must be other vehicles out there that meet that criteria.

    However, as I said earlier, good luck (and let us know how it all turns out).
  • koolbreeze2koolbreeze2 Posts: 252
    Very interesting. If you do this, please post some before and after pictures. I love the idea of personalizing a vehicle. If you have the time and money, I say go for it. It sounds like you have the knowledge and the contacts to do this. You said that you are "emboldened to go ahead with this", so I say go for it. Sounds exciting. The other option would have been to just keep the '91 YJ and try the Unlimited as is. No, after reading your post again you sound like a determined person. Your going to do this in a week and a half? What color is the Unlimited? What do you like about it? Well, have fun. Keep us informed, like I said, its very interesting. Go Easy, John
  • mtngalmtngal Posts: 1,911
    I agree with you that the new seating is too low - they changed it in something like 2001. I far prefer the seating in our '98 Sport (also a TJ) over what's in the '04 Unlimited (I'm short at 5'1") but my 6' husband prefers the Unlimited. I keep going back and forth as to whether I should just get seat risers (blocks of various sizes that raise the seats up) or get cushions for myself, so the seats would fit me better. Or a combination of both. My husband said he wouldn't mind the seats being higher, and he has plenty of extra head room, but I wouldn't mind the seats being a bit shorter in the leg.

    The Unlimited's seats are still 100% better than the awful seats in that (hated) 2000 Tacoma.

    If you think that you will be happy with the Unlimited then go ahead and get it - your project sounds interesting. However, if you have any doubts, don't get it. We bought the Taco after too short of a test drive. A month after we got it we both agreed that it was by far the MOST uncomfortable vehicle either one of us had ever owned. We couldn't afford to dump it so were stuck with it for 4 very long years (and 177,000 miles). I hope never to do that again!
  • embeedueceembeeduece Posts: 260
    I had a professor once who was extraordinarily dismayed when the CJs were discontinued in 1986, only to be replaced by the Wrangler. He called Wranglers comptuers on wheels, or something like that, and refused to buy new. So to him, even the 1991 would be a modern abomination. I guess it's all in the perspective (like each generation hating the music of the generation before).

    And while I don't subscribe to this, people like my professor say after the CJs ceased, and AMC was sold to Chrysler, that was it for "real" Jeeps. Square lights and all. Wranglers were made for about a year under AMC, and from there on (including your '91) they became the purview of Chrysler's Jeep/Eagle division.

    Consumer Reports (can we cite them on Edmunds?) generally poo poos the Wrangler, but also offers this backhanded compliment. They allude to Wrangler's impeccable off road capabilities, and consider it to be otherwise "too true to its roots."

    I think the "logic" -- if that's the right word -- of the interior is extreme mass production. Easy to swap steering from left to right. Well, that's the only one I can think of, but I'm sure I read somewhere there were other modular benefits which translates into cost effectiveness, blah, blah, blah.

    Your 1991 worked great for you, and that's awesome, but that doesn't mean everything else is garbage. There's a huuuge school of thought to the contrary. For that matter, I've heard people say a/c in a Jeep is sacrilege. (Though, again, I looove my a/c). And I'm sure when they intro a new Wrangler I'll be all upset about how they screwed it up too, and I'll never want anything other than my '04.

    Anyways, hope it all works out for you. Keep us posted.

  • embeedueceembeeduece Posts: 260
    Mtngal, a Tacoma?! For shame!


  • mtngalmtngal Posts: 1,911
    "a Tacoma? For shame!"

    LOL! Actually, mechanically it wasn't that bad of a vehicle. If we had replaced the seats early on, I might still have it (well, maybe not, since it had so many miles on it when I sold it a year ago).

    I've left the choice of our next vehicle totally up to my other half. At first he was leaning toward an Unlimited Rubicon, but now he's talking about getting a full sized pick-up (model changes weekly). We do miss the extra hauling capacity of a pick-up every so often. Renting full sized SUVs or pickups for a week to haul junk around can get expensive quickly. We aren't in any rush (can't do anything about it now anyway) and the decision, when the time comes, will be his (do you know how hard it is to not put my 2 cents in?!).
  • tidestertidester Posts: 10,059
    Consumer Reports (can we cite them on Edmunds?)...

    It's not a problem. They are not an automotive siter per se and you're obviously not soliciting for them.

    tidester, host
  • keatskeats Posts: 412
    Well said, Mike. When the YJ came out, the same thing was heard from the CJ crowd. And now, TJ folks are talking about how bad the TK is going to be.

    I'm with John, show us the pictures!
  • Jim, (and others) thanks for the reply. My "kids" are 13 and 15 and I could try to put them in booster seats but the 15 year old is already bigger than I am (steroids in the milk?) and I don't want to make him angry. I've called lots of local automobile upholstery places and just get a long pause after my question of whether headrests can be added to a bench seat. I've googled the subject and so far have found one site that makes a bench seat for the wrangler with head rests but it looks like it bolts in and would lose any fold and tumble action. I may have to choose between the two functions if I can't locate anything else. Boyd
  • randyacerandyace Posts: 96

    Just computed my mpg on eXcalibur's first tankfull....came out to 16.68; I'd estimate 90 percent of that was tooling around town...and a/c usage at about 20 percent.

    Seems on target to Edmund's listed estimate of 15 in town. I left my lead foot back in the 70's someplace, so with conservative driving, I'm pleased.

    Am I about on average for the rest of you?

    Speaking of bugs ;) (did I mention I HATE those?), took eXcalibur and my pooch out for a spin at dusk Saturday evening, and of course was on the alert for those things bent on permanently altering their composition on my windshield.

    Now, I'm not kidding....I never in a million years thought that bug shield I put on last week would really help, but I truly saw some nasties get caught in the updraft from the shield and went up and over the cab. Yoweeee!

    Some of them were desperate enough to get through, but it was nowhere near as bad as my first night-time outing when eXcalibur eliminated roughly 1,000,000 of them. I know the consensus here is that the shields look unsightly, but thought I'd share my $.02 worth.

  • ravagerravager Posts: 20
    My 16 year old daughter and I already love our unlimited and for father's day we went to Hollister hills to see what stuff we could do.

    Looking at nasty trails and trusting a jeep to make it up or down them is incredible! We learned that a just because a trail only has "one" black diamond it doesn't mean it's the easiest trail. I only backed down twice. Once on a double black diamond trail with white rocks and nasty boulders. And later a giggle-fest of a dirt mound that spit dirt into the jeep and refused to let us get over.

    I let my daughter drive it up a 200-300 yard soft dirt grade of at least 50-60 degrees. All I know is that I looked back and it looked straight down. And while I was verbally cheering her on, I was quietly dreading the possibilities if she stopped.

    I admit my jeep with less than 2500 miles looked a bit overdressed and wayyy too clean. But the other jeepers there were nice. One even advised that since I have the longer Unlimited wheelbase that I would need an 8inch (!) lift for maximum capability. I don't plan going further than a 3.5" lift but 8" sounds awesome.

    No pictures, I'll get some next time. I want some with mud. The scratches should buff out and the interior cleans out fine. Easily worth the price of admission. :)
  • tsjaytsjay Posts: 4,591

    WAY TO GO!

    You didn't waste any time getting that Jeep into its natural habitat. Your Jeep will love you for letting it do what it was born to do.



    Have you hugged your Jeep today?
  • mtngalmtngal Posts: 1,911
    Loved your story of Hollister Hills - it certainly contrasted with how I spent yesterday. I carefully washed and waxed GiGi (the last 2 weekends she's been parked next to a construction zone). I've ordered one of those bags to take your windows with you and I wanted to make sure it won't take me forever to clean them when it finally arrives. I've been thinking of starting to carry a squirter bottle of water with me to clean the windows if I want to take the top down sometime when I'm wandering around.

    To be fair, Saturday I took the Sport out on a forest service road that is normally steep and rough enough to think about shifting into 4Hi. However, since the national forest sustained so much damage this past winter, they've ended up grading many of the roads in order to get heavy equipment in to clear the fallen trees, etc. All except for a few motorcycle trails are now open, but they're all easier than they were last year. That's OK with me - at least they are open, and I can get away now.
  • redrocker15redrocker15 Posts: 102
    There's a 4-yr old boy in my neighborhood who's a great little kid. We had talked at a neighborhood cookout about taking him for a ride in my Jeep ("Eugene") once I had the top down. Sunday, we did just that! I had the rear seat out, so I cleared it with his Dad before offering (safety issues); but since we were just going to stay in the neighborhood (and a little "off-road" in the construction area behind our houses), it was A-O-K.

    As we walked over to te Jeep, I jokingly told him that since the rear seat was out, he could either ride in the passenger seat, or just stand on the back bumper. I figured he'd opt for some degree of safety, right? Well, he said "Great! I'll ride back here!". Fortunately he wasn't too disappointed when I explained he really had to ride in the seat. (He's a gutsy little 4-yr old, in case I hadn't mentioned that before. He likes to show us how he figured out how to ride his bike without training wheels, but while wearing his rollerblades!) :surprise:

    Anyway, we had a great ride and spent a fair amount of time in the dirt, driving up dirt mounds and the like. We even drove down into a lower area, where the rains had made some good mud. That entailed shifting into 4-Hi for good measure - - he seemed to like that a lot! I stopped and let him look back at our tire tracks; that was even better!

    We drove back home and checked out the mud-caked tires. Let me tell you, that's cool stuff even when you're 4! After a brief pause to see our dogs, I took him back to his house (just around the corner) - - he voted to ride in the Jeep instead of walking. He opened the passenger door, and given his size, bonked himself in the head when it opened. He's tough, and mentioned that "Eugene said he was sorry"! I did mention that I hoped we wouldn't leave any mud in his driveway; he said it would be OK! Next we told his Dad all about the trip and the mud and 4-wheel drive and that the Jeep was named "Eugene" and was a boy. Dad mentioned he really wanted to get a Jeep, and wished he had gone that route instead of the 300Z a year or so ago. It's been traded since, and I quote "I lost a ton of money on that! I'd still have the Jeep!"

    I figure it's just a matter of time! :)
  • drperez007drperez007 Posts: 30
    Hi everyone. Been a while. This site must be among the busiest (and best) of all forums. Always enjoy the read and I used some of the information shared here to order my '05 Wrangler with the "Rocky Mountain Edition" package (in red). What a great machine. Tradition does matter!

    I'm installing windshield fog light brackets and, of course, fog lights. Question: Is there someplace to run these wires into the vehicle? If I need to drill, is there a safe place to do so or is there someplace absolutely NOT to drill? Any light anyone can shed on this would be appreciated.

    Glad to be back and glad to be on-board.

  • chong1chong1 Posts: 2
    Hello, i'm entering college soon and i wanted a jeep wrangler unlimted.

    couple of questions.

    1. why are wrangler's SO expensive?

    2. Manual or automatic?

    3. Where to off road in southern california?

    4. is it possible to get a tape player? i want to hook my ipod through my current tape adaptor.
  • mac24mac24 Posts: 3,910
    You do realize that fog lights would be useless mounted at that height? ;)

    You're probably best off with narrow beam spots, rather than driving lights which would reflect back off the hood. Also be aware that using lights mounted at that height is illegal in all states unless you're off road.

    You can remove the grille under the windshield to help run the wiring into the engine compartment, then come back through a grommet in the firewall to get to the passenger compartment.
  • mac24mac24 Posts: 3,910

    1. Because that's what people will pay.

    2. Your choice. Each is different to the other, not better.

    3. Can't help with that one, not my area.

    4. Not that I'm aware of on the latest models, but try Crutchfield. Prior to '03, yes.
  • wheelsdownwheelsdown Posts: 250

    Where in OK do you live? I was born in Okmulgee, about 35 miles south of Tulsa.

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