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MINI Cooper
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Comments
The MINI is right up there with the Hyundai Accent!
The offset crash test results should be interesting as well.
You are right, and wrong. The ratings stay the same, so the ratings are a display of the actual forces affecting the occupants (driver, passenger) based on the standard tests, which are not changed because a small car is being crashed, rather than a large.
Obviously, in a car versus car accident, mass becomes a major factor. A Mini will suffer impact disadvantages if it should collide with an SUV. The extra mass of the heavier vehicle has a nasty tendency to continue pushing through a smaller mass vehicle, adding additional energy to be absorbed by the smaller car.
Nonetheless, most accidents are single car accidents. In a single car accident, you will fair in most ways as well in a Mini as you will in some of those EarthDestroyers out there. Which is good to know.
Besides, the side impact test is not too far off from real world. A heavy item (concrete block) is accelerated into the side of the vehicle, and then the forces of impact are measured. The block isn't reduced in size or mass for small cars, so a side impact rating of 4-stars is exactly the same, regardless of car.
All I am saying is that the Mini has received an impressive crash rating, certainly high enough to dismiss those who want to say, "It is a flimsy tin can car that will be crushed in an accident."
According to the ratings, it won't be any more crushed than a Toyota Highlander in a similar situation.
You'll see that the Accent gets 3 stars front side and 2 stars rear side so the MINI is better than an Accent for side impacts where tested. Some cars get 5 stars in one or the other for front impacts so there is room for improvement in the MINI. Many other cars are worse on the side than the MINI so they have room for improvement also.
Also note that most of these are 4-door cars. Many 2-door cars tradionally are much weaker in side impacts with the larger door and lack of a B pillar. For instance, look at the coupe versions of the Cavalier and Sunfire in the Compact class with 1 star front side and 2 stars rear side:
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/NCAP/Cars/2002Cmpt.html
The ZX2 is also very poor and many other coupes are not tested.
They haven't tested a 2-door Golf for some reason but the 2-door Beetle gets excellent side impact results so the Golf is probably good as well.
The MINI did really well considering how little mass it has to absorb an impact.
I'm thinking the side ratings depend on side and curtain (head) air bags. All VW's have a similar setup to the MINI with head and side bags where the Accent doesn't - they seem to make a significant difference.
You're right about the north american disappointments though the 2003 Camry is also bad, 2 star side without side airbags upgraded to 3 with airbags. The Corolla and Matrix/Vibe did very well though.
One big disappointment I have with this car is the engine. The pentagon engine is simply not up to its standard. It needs real refinement at high rpm. I wish the engine would have been GM's Ecotoc, as the ecotec is superior in terms of refinement and performance. I hope BMW will replace it with its in-house built valvetronic engines soon. I am quite picky on the engine of a car because the engine is the heart of the car. It needs to be good. In fact, I'm quite sure that BMW will replace the pentagon engine with a new one in the next few years.
The price of mini cooper S is approaching BMW 325 or 330i. That's not cheap.
So, I rather choose a BMW. A real genuine BMW is more appealing to me, since putting a nice looking Mini skin over a BMW is not a good appeal to me.
About the price comment, a fully loaded Cooper S is just over $27k sticker. That's with leather, nav, metallic paint, and all that other not necessary stuff. A 325i is mid-$28k without all of that. By the time you give a 325i all those unnecessary options that are on a $27k Cooper S, you'll have a $37k sticker 325i. There's a huge price difference. Mini prices are in line with competitive Volkswagen models, and in my opinion represent a very good deal.
Mike
In contrast, the SOHC design of the pentagon engine is a bit inferior. SOHC is not as good as a DOHC in high rpm. Honda uses SOHC in some engines, but the it still uses DOHC in the best racing models.
It is still a good engine though...maybe the pentagon is the best 4 cylinder engine Chrysler has got.
Not a bad one.
I think some Japanese cars score quite well in the crash tests, esp Honda civics.
I think one major reason why Chevy cavalier scores bad in side impact is because it was designed in 1995. I blieve a lot of American cars will get a redesign in a year or two, so I expect their safety ratings will catch up soon.
The ECOTEC is a nice engine, lots of torque. I have a 2.2L in my Saturn LW200. It still isn't VTEC/valvetronic or anything, just DOHC. It is a pretty big block that would not fit under the MINI's hood. There are lower displacement ECOTECs around but most use the same size block and just adjust the bore & stroke to adjust the displacement so putting a small ECOTEC in there wouldn't help the space problem. All that said, why would BMW use a GM engine? I know, why a DCX engine...
Around here the Cooper S loaded does creep into the 3-series range but only at the very bottom, the 320 which has a 2.2L engine and is a good deal slower than a base Cooper, being a much heavier car. The 325 and 330 are quite a bit more than the Cooper S when equipped similarly. The Cooper is a small FWD hatchback, while the 3-series is a small RWD sedan so I don't think there is that much cross shopping going on.
The MINI is different from the other retro cars in that it isn't just a restyled and retooled existing car and it actually resembles its name-sake. It didn't start out as a Golf or Neon, it is a new car based upon the Rover Mini. And it is a FWD car like its predecessor, the original FWD transversely mounted engine car. The new FWD, front engine liquid-cooled Beetle is nothing like the RWD, rear engine, air cooled original; nor is the PT Cruiser anything like the RWD longitudinally engined 1930 Plymouth after which it is styled. While I only paid MSRP for my car and there is no waiting list here, most places still have silliness over the car; I think that will go away but that won't make it less of a car. It has excellent driving characteristics in stock form which you can't take away from it and along with the styling and the features I think it will have staying power; time will tell and I'll continue to enjoy my Cooper no matter how the brand fares.
And it is a brilliant strategy for BMW to bring this car here. How else could they sell to the younger crowd without messing up the premium brand image they have going with BMW here? I love to see an auto manufacturer with cahones.
Not much news has been released about it, considering the original rumors placed released in 2004 as a possible 2005 model. No guarantee that the 1-series will be available in US, but with Audi bringing the A3, chances are BMW will want to have a smaller offering as well.
I would love to see an answer to the No German sedans available at $23k other than a VW. Having a BMW that prices under the Volvo S40 and Audi A4/A3 would be a nice place to grab some available market share and introduce the young crowd to BMW cars and trannies.
I like my 318ti, and would love to have a viable sub-$30k BMW option to replace it. Mini is the current contender for my next new car, but I am holding firm until my financials are a little more stable. Gotta love the dot-com/911-terrorism depression of the job market.
Kudos if you managed to stay gainfully employed over the last 2 years, if not...you know my pain.
My original intent was to pay off the 318 and take EU on a new 325 or buy a Z3/Z4. I have had to scale back those plans a bit. At this point, a sub-$20k option that has as much appeal as the Mini makes it a stand out in the market.
If you like European styling and performance, the Mini may be the only way to go under $20k, for as soon as you decide that a VW Golf or Jetta should be the purchase, a 1.8T or TDI engine rockets those cars to over $20k very easily.
Was happy to see the crash tests...makes the small car look a little more viable for a daily driver.
BMW and VW have a huge variety of high performance diesel engines available in Europe that we will never see over here until our diesel fuel is cleaned up.
BMW installs a diesel engine in the U.S. built X5 that is export only - I'd have gone with that engine in my X5 in a heartbeat instead of the gas 3.0 if it was available here.
How long are are waiting lists in Northern California if you want to custom order to get exactly the color and equiptment you want vs just taking whatever they happen to get?
Do many dealers still sell over MSRP in Northern CA?
This dealer alienated lots of people with their terrible attitude when the MINI first came out -
I'm looking forward to below MSRP pricing - give it a few more months.
I will pass. Maybe by next year they will sell without the additional price gouging for unwanted dealer-installed protection packages on top of full MSRP.
Hi Hpulley4- Nice to see you back here. Also, thanks for posting the links to Edmunds' Most Wanted for 2003. Hope all is well with you and your Mini. ;-)
Revka
Hatchbacks & Wagons Host
I placed an order in BrianHarris Mini (in Baton Rouge) 3 weeks ago, and mine will be assembled next week. I am looking for a late Dec. delivery now.
All that will backfire in Houston too - when did the Texas lawsuit get settled - how long have they been selling MINI's in Texas?
I go to Texas quite a bit on business (Dallas/ Fort Worth) - I can't imagine the MINI being that popular there - there isn't anything MINI in Texas. I'd be afraid to drive a MINI in Texas - them cowboys would use it for target practice :-)
Salem, N.C., about 2hrs from my home. I ordered
the car for the base price and had my car in less
than 8 weeks, I would have had it sooner if I
hadn't ordered a color that wasn't out yet at
the time. I don't think there is a great demand
around here for the MINI so the dealer is more
willing to accommodate the buyers. I have often
been a target on the highway here by rednecks
in pickup trucks, though most drivers are
courteous and are tailgating you just because
they want a closer look at your car!
Does Flow have a lot of MINI's in stock?
I am a little disappointed that is Sirius, instead of XM. XM seems more finacially stable, but Sirius has it's own advantages.
Hope it is not overpriced.
I actually prefer the looks of the base model with chrome trim and grille better than the S with the body colored grille and hood scoop. I also like the option of the CVT on the base model.
A silver Cooper S looks OK though since the grille looks almost chrome in the photos in the Miniusa web page.
I'm sure the 163 HP is adequate, but 113 sounds really weak. It's prbably OK if you're not loaded down with passengers, but it probably cannot handle merging on to the freeway carpooling with 4 adults and the AC on.
People say the S has a rough ride especially with 17" rims and it probably isn't too smooth even with the standard 16" rims and harder stadard suspension.
If I were to get a Cooper S, I would avoid the 17" rims and avoid any upgraded sport suspension.
The base model should at least have an average ride with the 15" rims abd standard suspension.
Is it available or not?
Also, the Cooper is a light vehicle. Even with 4 adults inside I find it has lots of power, more than enough to merge onto the freeway especially since it is geared so that you are just hitting redline (in the 5-speed at 6750RPM) when you hit 64MPH in 2nd gear. If you actually use all 123HP then it has plenty of pep.
Like you, I much prefer the looks of the Cooper with the chrome, no hood scoop and a better spoiler. I also agree that if I got an S, the silver would work best.
You could try a special order of silver/white but I know that silver/black is the usual. Perhaps you'd like the dark silver/white combo? Dark silver looks good in person but not so great on the web page IMO.
The 15" wheels definitely give a softer ride with a little less solidity in steering response (for the same reason). I prefer the 16" wheels for their improved grip and more solid cornering but the 15" are good too and are only available on the Cooper.
BTW, the Cooper isn't the base MINI. In europe they also sell the ONE which is the base (no rear anti-roll bar, no sport suspension, 90HP advertised/101HP dynotested, no tach, etc.).
Cooper S, it is also $3k less money. I love my
Mini but in all honesty I would never spend $25k
for one, mine is a base model in silk green with
a white roof, and base alloy wheels, the only
option I got other than the paint color was the
chrome trim. The base engine has enough power
to get around town (with 5 spd.) but top gear
passing time is pretty slow, trying to pass a
semi with a SUV on your tail can be a little
scary! The plastic door handles and trim pieces
on the exterior are pretty flimsy too, but for
$16-17k I think it is still a great little car for the money.
Even in the S, downshifting will cut down on your passing times as lower gears put more power to the wheels even when the torque curve is flat and max torque is reached earlier.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
For this same reason, you want to shift at redline when you want the best acceleration. Even though the engine peaks in power at 6000RPMs (123HP) it still has much more power at 7000RPMs (107HP) than it does at 4000RPMs (79HP) and by being in the lower gear instead of the higher one you can put more to the wheels. You see that you have 1.35x the engine power at 7000RPMs than 4000RPMs and combined with the 1.75:1 gearing advantage by staying in first you will accelerate at more than double (2.36x) the rate in 1st at 7000RPMs compared to 2nd at 4000RPMs. The difference between 5th and 3rd is slightly smaller (and quite a bit smaller when you consider that this is 2 gears of spacing, not 1) but still a factor of 2.11x. DOWNSHIFT!
quickly at lower speeds but if I'm cruising
at 80 mph or so and downshift it kicks the rpm's
up pretty high, I like to keep the rpms under
5000 for one simple reason: Chrysler engine
made in Brazil. I think the Brazilians are
wonderful people but every chrysler product I
ever owned fell apart at 50k miles! So just
playing it safe, want my Mini to last as long
as possible....
The base model should at least have an average ride with the 15" rims abd standard suspension."
With the 'S', you automatically get the upgraded sport suspension. (At least in Canada).
If you want a cushy ride, get a BMW 7-series.
The car is a gokart. It's not meant to be smooth.
BTW, I have an 'S' with the 16" wheels. I am getting a snow tire/rim package from my dealer, and for the 'S' they MUST be 16". 15" do not fit properly.
Ask any dealer. They'll probably tell you the same thing my dealer told me.
I will have to test drive a 5 speed to see if it is adequate in power.
I have already read reviews saying the CVT is ridiculously underpowered (0-60 in 11 seconds or more with only the weight of one person onboard) and the S with 17" rims has an incredibly harsh ride comparable to a Porsche 911! Not very liveable for a daily driver. I am not going to be using the car for autocrossing, so I don't need the super rock-hard suspension that makes the ride of a Subaru WRX feel like an LS400 in comparison.
I haven't noticed any comments about interior noise from road and engine.
Maybe, for 2004, they will up the power on the Cooper so it will have enough power to handle the CVT or offer a smoother suspension and tire package on the Cooper S and make the most rigid, racetrack-tuned sport suspension optional.
I drive my 5-speed Cooper with sport suspension and runflat tires as my daily driver and I love it.
They'll need a new CVT if they want it to take more power. The reason why there isn't a CVT on the S is that 155lb-ft of torque would wreck it, or so I'm told. If they would let the CVT go higher than 5500RPM then you could at least take advantage of more horsepower but they limit the CVT even to that level (rated 104HP/dynoed 112HP vs. rated 115HP/dynoed 123HP for the 5-speed).
The engine and wheels/tires are fairly quiet at low to moderate speeds but the engines are loud at high revs, including when you are speeding on the freeway and the wheels and tires get loud at high speeds too. At 60MPH the MINI is still fairly quiet, turning well under 3000RPMs, but at 80-100MPH the engine becomes loud turning 4000RPMs and up, and the road noise increases dramatically as well. Still feels rock solid so in a way the noise is good, otherwise it can be easy to go fast without realizing it.
Concerning safety, with a small car like the mini, an alert driver, solid handling and maneuverablity is the key to survival. Both old and new have the last two requirements.
A couple quick comments about the difference between the two. The old mini was once described to me as the nearest thing to a motorcycle on four wheels. It would pull away from a 911 Porsche in a series of hairpins. But the power was low (top end 100+ with the wind behind U) so you won or lost a road rally depending on how far you got ahead of the porsche before the straight away. The new mini has power but that added to the higher profile caused a lot of wheel lift and tail drift in a slalom I ran in an abandoned parking lot (dont tell the dealer!).
Both skates are unreal drives! I can't wait to get my hands on a new one!
Normal
Sport
Steptronic (Simulated 6-speed clutchless shifting).
The car takes off with gusto from the get go in either Sport or Steptronic modes...and yes with 4 people in the car.
I would suggest for you not too read too much into enthusiast magazine's opinions and take a test drive for yourself. You'll be pleasantly surprised.
Also, if you want the best ride/handling dynamics, stick with the standard 15" wheels/tires combo. The 15" tires provide the smoothest ride in comparison to the 16" and 17" runflat rubber available in the MINI (The 15" tires are regular non-runflat tires with a spare) and still deliver great handling and cornering (Plus grip) due to them being much lighter than the bigger wheels. The lightest wheels in the MINI are the 15" 7-hole design wheels, closely followed by the 15" 8-spoke design wheels which are the ones that I currently have in my Pepper White/Black roof Cooper.
The Runflats sound good in paper but I was not too convinced to get them due to their stiff sidewalls, harsh ride characteristics, increased tire/wheel weight and hefty cost of replacement (Around $220 per tire) plus the need for tire repair shops to have specialized runflat repair equipment plus trained technicians (Are you going to find a runflat repair store in the middle of highway 50 in Nevada? Don't think so...)
The Runflats offer increased safety as they allow you to drive up to 50 miles with them, but it figures...the car comes already with 4 years/50K miles of 24 hour roadside assistance anywhere in Canada, US or Puerto Rico...so why bother with runflats?
Having said this, I do dig the 16" 5 star wheels and wish that MINI would offer a non-runflat option for them.
Take the MINI for a test drive and discover for yourself why this is the most talked about car of all time.
Oh and by the way, the MINI is a SUBCOMPACT car with a short length wheelbase. If extreme smooth ride quality is your main concern, then you need to take a look at the bigger Compact cars such as the VW Golf, Jetta, Beetle, Focus, Civic, Corolla, Sentra, etc.
If you don't drive too far on runflat tires while flat, you can get them plugged/repaired just like any other tire. The runflats will take you 90 miles with absolutely no air in them, 500 miles if they are holding 14PSI or 1000 miles if they are holding 22PSI (approximate numbers from memory, check your owner's manual). If you have to go farther on them than these distances then you can continue driving with them but instead of a patch you will probably damage the tire so that it needs to be replaced.
The runflat tires are heavier than non-runflats but if you are carrying a spare tire, jack, etc. then you make up for the difference, though I admit this is in sprung weight which is not as much of a performance penalty as unsprung weight. The can of fix-a-flat is of course much lighter but will only fix certain types of punctures, not full rippin' blow-outs.
The 16" X-lites are 17.5lbs which is not much heavier than the 15lb 8-spoke 15" wheels. Some dealers might let you swap out the tires for non-runflats if you asked them. That said, the spare tire is 15" so riding with 3 16" wheels and one 15" wheel might be weird so you wouldn't want to do it for long.
I've driven a MINI with 15" 8-spoke wheels and from a standing start you can feel that there is less inertia to overcome compared to the 16" with runflats. The handling is good, the cornering is good, grip isn't quite as good but with 195 wide tires instead of the stock 175 width it would likely be very close. I still prefer the 16's but you aren't giving up much if anything by going with the 15s, except for runflat technology and the look of 16" wheels which is subjective anyways.
It is funny to call the Golf and Focus big cars but the other day there was a Golf parked behind my MINI and a Focus ZX3 behind the Golf and the ZX3 is bigger than the Golf which is bigger than the MINI. None are land yachts but they look pretty big compared to the MINI (which dwarfs its predecessor by 2 feet!). Still, for the length differences which are several feet, the MINI's wheelbase is less than 2" shorter than that of the Golf and wheelbase is what gives stability, not car length. There are many cars with shorter wheelbases, e.g. the Miata, the Geo Metro.
I applud the technology but it is far from perfect. When these tires become more affordable I will gladly pitch in. $150 per tire is much more of what I am used to pay for 16" replacement rubber.
I am glad to know you are happy with your choice. I am happy with mine.
Like all things that are newly introduced, it takes volume before the price comes down. Hopefully by the time I need to replace my tires in 2-3 years the price may already have dropped, we'll see. With the mandatory tire pressure monitoring systems coming into effect very soon I think these tires will become more popular.