..The 5-door focus coming out in around August. Should be cheaper than the Focus Wagon by a good amount. The thing I don't like about the Focus Wagon pricing is it comes with an Automatic standard (Thus upping the price!). The 5-door focus (I believe it will be called the ZX5) should be cheaper than the Protoge 5-door hatch. By how much though, I don't know.
...according to Car&Driver and AutoWeek. 130hp Zetec engine and five-speed will be standard. It will be interesting to see how Ford equips and prices this car in comparison with the Protege5.
Actually, I think the Elantra compare pretty well with the Protege and makes the Protege a bit of a harder sell. With a few upgrades in the interior and in the handling department, the Elantra should be a reasonable alternative to the Mazda.
In any event, it seems that Mazda is milking the Protege 5 a bit too much. The ES level sedan is already pricey for this class (nice to be sure, but still pricey), and then they come out with Protege 5 with no mechanical, equipment or interior improvements over the ES and they add on another $800. That wouldn't be so bad (maybe the different body style is more expensive), but they do not offer the car in the more affordable LX trim. Compare that with the Elantra GT, which is a $1,000 more than the Elantra sedan, but comes with a host of improvements over the sedan along with the bumb in price.
Enough of that. I got a brochure on the Protege 5 from a dealer, and it has some specs. on the car, if anyone is interested.
Highlights:
Standard equipment: 16 inch alloy wheels w/ 195/50R16 V-rated tires; leather wrapped tilt steering wheel; power windows, locks; remote keyless entry; cruise control; 4 speaker radio/cd player; AC (more).
Optional equipment: ABS brakes with side air bags (front); power sliding glass moonroof; 4-speed automatic transmission; (more).
Engine: 2.0 L, 16 valve 4cyl. 130 HP @ 6000 RPM; 135 SAE torque @ 4000 RPM (25 mpg city, 31 hwy with manual trans)
Does anyone know if all 5 Door Sports will come with the ground effect trim as exhibited at Auto Shows and on the Mazda web site? Euro and South American models don't come equipped as such--and I'd prefer it that way as well!
hkchan, YOu mentioned the 'S-Plan', what's that? Also, I'm about buy a new Protege, any advice? I'm going to buy a book on purchasing a new car tonight, and I've read some of the stuff here on Edmunds regarding Dealer HoldBack, anything else I should know? How much should the dealer back off of the MSRP?
Anyone have MSRP information for the MP3? Im going to call a dealer and I'll post it when I get it.
Not sure, but I think the first time I heard of it was from maltb. Anyway, join the EAA (www.eaa.org) for $40 a year and get to buy Ford, Volvo, Mazda, etc. at special proces. For the Mazda, it's 1.5% under invoice. Get the invoice information from Edmunds or other sources. Dealer participation is voluntary. Better call dealers and make sure before joining the EAA. You still get whatever rebate/special financing available at the time of your car's delivery. The last promotion expired on 4/2/01 and it was a $750 rebate or 0% for 48 months. I have no idea if there's one currently. maltb should know.
cars.com (which seems to be part of USA Today) in its coverage of the New York Auto Show is giving an MSRP of $16,415 for the Mazda Sport Wagon. Here is a link to their page. This is a bit higher than Maltb's price, but is the first time I have seen a price on any site.
maltb, can you provide more information on the "S-Plan"? Also, I if I were to stumble across an MP3 that wasn't presold, would you expect dealer markup on this car, considering how many were produced? When I was at my local VW dealer two weeks ago driving the 01 GTI VR6, they had a WRX there with a $4000 ADMU on the sticker! that put it over 30k! ouch!
tocan, thanks for the link to the protege5, nice car! THey have a link to a yellow MP3 too.
I happened to see one yesterday and as I looked it over I kept thinking that there is way more than 18k worth of content on that car and it is all covered by factory warranty. With that in mind, and the fact that there are only 1,500 this year, I expect that dealers will have no problem getting over MSRP. Given the vehicles target buyer, I don't think it will get as outrageous as your example of the WRX.
Thanks for your response maltb. Yeah its a nice car; and true, it seems like a lot of car for <1000 over a loaded ES' MSRP. I went and test drove an LX2.0 last night. Wow. I can't wait to buy a Protege! What a fun car. The fit and finish was high quality IMO.
I did inquire about the MP3, and they said they'd get some in at the end of next month. THey were vauge though and thin on any details, like price. They said they'd be allocated a certain number of them and that they could put my down on a waiting list for them. (I'd be first on the list they said, since there isn't a list as of yet). She also said that we could make an agreement to purchase one of the ones they'd get in, but the agreement would be contingent the car coming in a color I'd like and options I'd accept. Also, of course, it'd be contingent upon them acceptiong the S-Plan for the car. She mentioned that right now they accept S-Plan purchases for all vehicles except the Tribute, because of demand. She seemed to be setting me up for the fact that they wouldn't take it but would not say so outright.
Thanks for your information on the S-Plan. Looks like becoming a member of the eaa is a wise thing for me to do regardless, since I'll purchase an ES if the MP3 thing doesn't work out. (fingers crossed) I've heard different descriptions of exactly what the S-Plan equates to. Linda, on one of the boards here (can't remember which) said its 500 below invoice. hkchan said 250 under. My "friendly sales person" said 2% under invoice. Do we know which one it is? does it vary?
Some of you may notice that a number of posts made yesterday, throughout Town Hall, are missing. Rest assured, every effort is being made to rectify this matter..., and we sincerely apologize for the difficulties this situation poses. Thank you for your patience.
I stopped by a local Mazda dealer today (New Jersey) and they said they were expecting 2 Protoge5's will come in the first week in May. I scheduled a test drive for myself as soon as they come in.
The salesman also gave me a spec sheet and price schedule sheet. If anyone wants this info posted just reply and I'll post it. I only have MSRP for the base and options because the salesman covered the invoice prices when he photocopied it..
Would love to see how much the Protege 5 is going for. I just bought a 2001 ES, so I wanna see how much waiting for the 5 would have cost me. I guess that;s the only way I will NOT feel bad about not waiting for it.
Never mind. aardvark_mark answered it. I missed the fineprint. I guess I was too excited.
The Protege shown in the first picture doesn't seem to have a moonroof. Am I correct? What's the prospect of getting one with ABS and no moonroof? Thanks.
16.3k is expensive? They could de-tune the suspension, loosen the steering rack, strip it, weld the rear doors shut, sell it for 13k and call it a Focus.
The Focus ZX3 doesn't look like a stripper to me and its steering rack is so tight. BTW its suspension geometry is the best in the class. Anyway, the Subaru Impreza Outback Sport wagon similarly equiped (minus moonroof and side airbags which are not avail) costs just approx. 1K more. And that car comes standard with the 165 hp boxer and legendary AWD. ABS is standard too.
I am also disappointed with the way Mazda is equipping and pricing the 5-door model. It is not that is not a good car or that it is not competitive with other cars in its price range. It is just that at 17k - 18k + the car begins to fall outside of the economy class and begins to bump up against some pretty decent cars (Subaru Impreza Wagon, 17.5 with good equipment; VW 1.8T Golf, 17.5K, 150-170 hp engine, handles great, has a great interior, and is similarly equipped). Additionally, I hate paying a premium for cars equipped with a bunch of stuff that does not enhance performance and that I don't want. How much am I paying for all of the plastic crap glued to body of the Protege 5? And to link luxury items, especially ones that many do not find desirable, such as headroom stealing sunroofs, with safety options just makes me mad. I have no problem with Mazda making money on their cars or even charging ridiculous prices on things like spoilers, but to gouge customers on safety items isn't right.
Not according to what I've read. There is an ABS option that is coupled with Side Air Bags with no requirement to get the moonroof. Now, the trick is to find one that way if that is true. I suspect everything that hits the lots loaded will have a moonroof. Might be better off waiting for the Toyota Matrix. 180 horses and 6 speed manual in the same price range for the sport model.
"Mazda North American Operations is hoping that the lure of cash will buy increased share of mind from its dealers, most of whom are dualed with bigger, more dominant brands."
If we weren't big-booty car fanatics we would all have cars by now. Its tough being a hatchback fan in the US. I was just about to give up on all these new cars and go with a 1.8T Golf GLS with all the options for around 20K. I will test drive the Protege if it is around when I'm ready to buy. If not I'm getting some good old fashion gen X yuppy luxury; I'm going to get the Golf.
First: hate McDonalds. (I mean the food :] ) Second: as far as I know McDonalds doesn't loose money (millions) in its core business while renovating the restrooms.
Just because a business (Ford in this case) spends millions to jump-start the operation doesn't automatically mean higher prices. In fact, most likely they can't raise prices until the consumers' opinion of the brand is elevated (as a result of the millions spent). If consumers will go for higher prices, more power to Ford. Quite often, companies spend millions to save millions. Problem (to those who look for results today) is that results come later (if at all).
I just got Canadian prices from Mazda Canada. (Of course we only get MSRP.)
Base price is $19,895 which includes ABS
There are only 3 options available, and all combinations are (theoretically) available.
Automatic transmission $1,000 Air conditioning $1,000 Moonroof $ 600
My comparison to comparably equipped ES sedans is that the hatchback is $895 more.
This is fairly comparable to the 2 liter Golf GLS (which would be about $23,000), but the 1.8T is considerably more, listing at $23,820 + $1,100 automatic + $300 sport suspension VW prices include air conditioning but not moonroof. (The VW warranty is only 2 years/40,000 km while the Protege has 3 years/80,000 km.)
With the 3% that the Mazda Elite program offers, the dealers must meet certain criteria. Dealers are required to meet certain standards in customer satisfaction as well as standards related to the dealership site as well(signage, display, etc). Some dealers will have a tough time meeting that standard and some never will. However the purpose of the plan is to stimulate growth of the Mazda brand which would in turn pay for that 3%. Besides, VDAP, how do you know that they aren't just re-allocating some of the marketing budget to handle this?
Well, because it seems that there is not that much left in the marketing budget to be relocated. I don't think that Mr. Hughes would want to cut the company's highly successful "zoom-zoom" advertising message. Also Mazda N.A. Operations just signed a five-year, $7.5 million deal with the owners of Laguna Seca raceway in Monterey, CA. Mazda has become the title sponsor of all racing activities there. And let's not forget that Mazda now forecasts (May release) a group net loss of $1.25 billion for the fiscal year.
Which includes a one time hit for the early retirement package that they offered this year. If the Yen stays close to where it is now, Mazda distributors around the world will be able to implement special programs like this without an increase in prices or a negative effect on proffit.
Comments
In any event, it seems that Mazda is milking the Protege 5 a bit too much. The ES level sedan is already pricey for this class (nice to be sure, but still pricey), and then they come out with Protege 5 with no mechanical, equipment or interior improvements over the ES and they add on another $800. That wouldn't be so bad (maybe the different body style is more expensive), but they do not offer the car in the more affordable LX trim. Compare that with the Elantra GT, which is a $1,000 more than the Elantra sedan, but comes with a host of improvements over the sedan along with the bumb in price.
Enough of that. I got a brochure on the Protege 5 from a dealer, and it has some specs. on the car, if anyone is interested.
Highlights:
Standard equipment: 16 inch alloy wheels w/ 195/50R16 V-rated tires; leather wrapped tilt steering wheel; power windows, locks; remote keyless entry; cruise control; 4 speaker radio/cd player; AC (more).
Optional equipment: ABS brakes with side air bags (front); power sliding glass moonroof; 4-speed automatic transmission; (more).
Engine: 2.0 L, 16 valve 4cyl. 130 HP @ 6000 RPM; 135 SAE torque @ 4000 RPM (25 mpg city, 31 hwy with manual trans)
4-wheel disc brakes.
Passenger volume: 92.6 cubic feet. Cargo volume: 19.8 cubic feet (rear seats up).
In Canada, ABS is standard, and Air Conditioning, moonroof and automatic are options. Side air bags are not available at all.
In the US, Air Conditioning is standard, and ABS with side airbags, moonroof and automatic are options.
Just a little strange.
Nomi
Sometimes we wish we could hold the world in our hands...
YOu mentioned the 'S-Plan', what's that? Also, I'm about buy a new Protege, any advice? I'm going to buy a book on purchasing a new car tonight, and I've read some of the stuff here on Edmunds regarding Dealer HoldBack, anything else I should know? How much should the dealer back off of the MSRP?
Anyone have MSRP information for the MP3? Im going to call a dealer and I'll post it when I get it.
thanks.
Good luck finding one that's not pre-sold.
http://cars.com/carsapp/usatoday/?srv=parser&act=display&tf=/features/autoshow2001/production/mazda/sportwagon.tmpl
Nomi
tocan, thanks for the link to the protege5, nice car! THey have a link to a yellow MP3 too.
maltb, thanks for the price.
Concerning S-plan: Check http://www.eaa.org/communications/eaanews/ford_partner.html for some details if you join the Experimental Aircraft Association.
BTW, I don't think any dealer will accept the S-plan for the first 6 months of the P5 and definitely not on the MP3.
I did inquire about the MP3, and they said they'd get some in at the end of next month. THey were vauge though and thin on any details, like price. They said they'd be allocated a certain number of them and that they could put my down on a waiting list for them. (I'd be first on the list they said, since there isn't a list as of yet). She also said that we could make an agreement to purchase one of the ones they'd get in, but the agreement would be contingent the car coming in a color I'd like and options I'd accept. Also, of course, it'd be contingent upon them acceptiong the S-Plan for the car. She mentioned that right now they accept S-Plan purchases for all vehicles except the Tribute, because of demand.
Thanks for your information on the S-Plan. Looks like becoming a member of the eaa is a wise thing for me to do regardless, since I'll purchase an ES if the MP3 thing doesn't work out. (fingers crossed) I've heard different descriptions of exactly what the S-Plan equates to. Linda, on one of the boards here (can't remember which) said its 500 below invoice. hkchan said 250 under. My "friendly sales person" said 2% under invoice. Do we know which one it is? does it vary?
Thanks.
Just curious.
Hall, are missing. Rest assured, every effort is being made to rectify this matter...,
and we sincerely apologize for the difficulties this situation poses. Thank you for
your patience.
Pocahontas
Host
Hatchbacks/Station Wagons Message Boards
Just for those who need to see the whole thing again.
Nice Polished Alloys
Sorry that the shots aren't the best but I didn't want to spend my whole day off taking pics of the P5.
Oh well, go here to see them:
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=1605334&a=12239699&f=0
I stopped by a local Mazda dealer today (New Jersey) and they said they were expecting 2 Protoge5's will come in the first week in May. I scheduled a test drive for myself as soon as they come in.
The salesman also gave me a spec sheet and price schedule sheet. If anyone wants this info posted just reply and I'll post it. I only have MSRP for the base and options because the salesman covered the invoice prices when he photocopied it..
ciao
Thanks for the pictures. They are much appreciated.
Nomi
maltb was right.
They have prices for the MP3 also.
If I were to get it, I'd be looking at $18,395 with just a few options. Man! Those anti-locks and that moonroof sure is expensive!
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Was disappointed to see you are forced to get the moon roof option if you want Antilock brakes and side airbags..
Is this just a marketing thing or do the front side airbags come out of the moonroof mechanism? (Whats this do for headroom?)
thanks
The Protege shown in the first picture doesn't seem to have a moonroof. Am I correct? What's the prospect of getting one with ABS and no moonroof? Thanks.
Glad to see that I was vindicated... thanks Henry.
Judging by the price and option grouping it's obvious that Mazda never intended to sell the 5-doors in volume.
I'll take the Mazda version, thanks.
Anyway, the Subaru Impreza Outback Sport wagon similarly equiped (minus moonroof and side airbags which are not avail) costs just approx. 1K more.
And that car comes standard with the 165 hp boxer and legendary AWD. ABS is standard too.
However using your argument, Subaru wants to sell even fewer hatchbacks than Mazda does.
I would think that a fair comparisson for this vehicle would be the Golf.
Standard equip:
Air Conditioning
Brakes, Power Front Disc
Braking System, Anti-Lock
Bumper Cover, Rear
Cargo Cover
Cargo Tray, Removable
Console w/Storage
Cup Holders, (2)
Defroster, Rear Window
Door Locks, Power
Drivetrain, AWD
Engine: 4-Cyl., 16V, SFI, 2.5 Liter
Fog Lights
Fuel Tank, 15.9 Gal. Cap.
Headlamp Control, Auto-Off
Light, Cargo Comp't.
Lights, Daytime Running & Glove Box
Luggage Rack
Mirrors, Dual Power & LH Visor Vanity
Moldings, Body Side
Paint, Two-Tone
Power Outlet, (1)
Radio, AM/FM Stereo w/CD
Restraint System, Dual Front Air Bag
Seat, Split Folding Rear
Seats, Cloth Bucket
Speed Control
Spoiler, Rear
Stabilizer Bars, F&R
Steering Wheel, Tilt
Steering, Variable Assist Power
Suspension, H.D. Raised
Tachometer
Tires, (4) P205/55VR16
Trans., 5-Spd. Manual w/Overdrive or 4-Spd. Automatic w/Overdrive
W/S Wipers, Variable Intermittent
Wheels, Alloy
Windows, Power
Wiper/Washer, Intermittent Rear Window w/De-Icer
(Req's Moon Roof-MR1) Includes Dual Front Side Impact Air Bag Restraint
System.
I wonder about the source of extra funding.
Increased prices?
http://www.autonews.com/html/main/stories/mazda416.htm
If we weren't big-booty car fanatics we would all have cars by now. Its tough being a hatchback fan in the US. I was just about to give up on all these new cars and go with a 1.8T Golf GLS with all the options for around 20K. I will test drive the Protege if it is around when I'm ready to buy. If not I'm getting some good old fashion gen X yuppy luxury; I'm going to get the Golf.
Second: as far as I know McDonalds doesn't loose money (millions) in its core business while renovating the restrooms.
Base price is $19,895 which includes ABS
There are only 3 options available, and all combinations are (theoretically) available.
Automatic transmission $1,000
Air conditioning $1,000
Moonroof $ 600
My comparison to comparably equipped ES sedans is that the hatchback is $895 more.
This is fairly comparable to the 2 liter Golf GLS (which would be about $23,000), but the 1.8T is considerably more, listing at $23,820 + $1,100 automatic + $300 sport suspension VW prices include air conditioning but not moonroof. (The VW warranty is only 2 years/40,000 km while the Protege has 3 years/80,000 km.)
Nomi
What I have found is that for many cars Canadian warranties are worse than American ones.
Nomi
I don't think that Mr. Hughes would want to cut the company's highly successful "zoom-zoom" advertising message.
Also Mazda N.A. Operations just signed a five-year, $7.5 million deal with the owners of Laguna Seca raceway in Monterey, CA. Mazda has become the title sponsor of all racing activities there.
And let's not forget that Mazda now forecasts (May release) a group net loss of $1.25 billion for the fiscal year.
I hope you're right.
Mazda deserves a bigger share of the US market.