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I also have something loose in my dash. It rattles every now and then. I guess it's time to visit the dealer.
So after that long story, does anybody who lives in cold temps have this problem?
I was in Montreal this weekend and Ontario. Coldest temp was -30C. Car was a little hard to start but no problems. I know what you mean by stiff. I had the same trouble before I switched to Redline MT 90. Still a little stiff but much better than the normal fluid.
I was able to start the car and move it around before it warmed up. I couldn't have done that with the regular fluid.
They did say it would be under warranty and if it were a continued problem to bring it back and they would correct it. I wouldn't think alignment to be a warrantable item.
Any comments, feedback, or response to similar experiences, or is this dealer just jacking with me?
Thanks, Andy
Ted
Thanks Ted!
I've got a 2003 Protege5 with only 3500km on it so far (got it October 1st). It ran on factory-installed oil until about 3200km, when it was switched to Mobil 1 synthetic.
A few weeks back the engine started producing a noticeable valvetrain-like noise upon start up. I only noticed this following several days of cold starts when it was -20C outside (a cold snap in Toronto).
It now still produces the noise when cold starting, but even with the engine warmed up sufficiently (i.e. in the middle of the temp guage), under moderate-throttle, the engine is producing this 'rattling' noise. Under heavy throttle, which I rarely do, the engine is so noisy anyway that I can't discern the valvetrain noise, but it's likely still there.
My moderate knowledge of engines suggests to me that this might be a faulty hydraulic lifter (or two).
I'm considering taking the car into my local Mazda dealer to see what they think of the situation, but I wanted to first know (a) if anyone has experienced this with their Protege5 or 2.0L Protege, and/or (b) Does my hypothesis sound reasonable?
Any help/suggestions/etc will be most appreciated.
Geoff.
Might be a stuck intake valve (has happened to a few folk's Proteges) or PCV (clean it or replace it). These are easy to access, so shouldn't cost much to check and fix.
Check your oil pump. Also verify oil is being pumped to the valvetrain. There may be a clog somewhere.
You might also want to check the timing mechanism, though this is a bit more involved (and costly) as they have to remove quite a number of parts to access the timing belt. However, I doubt this is the cause as you didn't notice it when you got your P5 and a timing belt shouldn't stretch that much, even by the time it should be replaced. It still may be a cause, but I'd check other items first.
Email me for the TSB
Dinu
Also, my dealer noted that the bushings on my sway bars need replacing. This seems a little early for that sort of failure. Since they are back ordered, can I assume this isn't unusual? I was considering replacing the sway bars anyway; would now be a good time to go about it?
Ted
Ted
The dealership doesn't believe me in spite of my record-keeping. Does anyone out there think this is correct for this small,underpowered car (which, incidentally, I bought for its advertised high gas mileage and its good looks)? Or, are my expectations too high?
Alacat
It should go up a little after the break-in period.
Also, both my wife's car and mine (a Protege sedan) drop in fuel economy over the winter due to many factors (less energy content in "winter" fuel, cold starts, cold oil, cold transmission fluid) by about 2mpg (my sedan gets about 29mpg in mostly local driving, but has been getting about 27mpg lately).
We (more like I, since I take care of that in my wife's car too) run our tires at 34psi (cold) and use synthetic motor oil. I also check to be sure our air filters are fairly clean (I check at every oil change, instead of waiting for the interval specified in the manual, since it's easy enough). After a full oil, filter and air filter change, I usually detect a bump-up in mpg (usually between 1-2mpg).
You might want to be sure your parking brakes aren't dragging. Some have stuck, leading to low mpg and premature wear of the rear brake pads.
Ted
MT000003848 - CLUTCH CHATTER DURING COLD TAKEOFF
Some vehicles may exhibit a clutch chatter or judder when releasing clutch during cold conditions. This may be caused by the flywheel and clutch cover surface materials creating a chatter or judder during clutch engagement.
The flywheel and clutch cover has been revised to correct this concern.
1. Verify customer concern.
2. Remove the manual transmission according to the following Workshop Manual procedure: * 5 Speed: MANUAL TRANSMISSION REMOVAL/INSTALLATION M25M-R (section 05-15A-3).
3. Remove clutch disc, clutch cover and flywheel according to the Workshop Manual procedure CLUTCH UNIT REMOVAL/INSTALLATION (section 05-10).
4. Install new clutch disc, clutch cover and flywheel according to the Workshop Manual procedure CLUTCH UNIT REMOVAL/INSTALLATION (section 05-10).
5. Reinstall the manual transmission according to the following Workshop Manual procedure: * 5 Speed: MANUAL TRANSMISSION REMOVAL/INSTALLATION M25M-R (section 05-15A-3).
6. Verify repair.
Part(s)Information: Part Number Description Qty Notes FP01-16-410A-9U Clutch Cover 1 1.8L FS05-16-410A Clutch Cover 1 2.0L FP49-11-500A Flywheel 1 1.8L FS01-11-500A Flywheel 1 2.0L B633-16-460A-9U Clutch Disc 1 1.8L FS06-16-460 Clutch Disc 1 2.0L Note: Make sure the dealer contacts DAG to specify order the above parts.
Ant
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Well, the reason for this post is, after hearing about this TSB for several months, I finally contacted my dealership's service manager last week. Due partly to my diligence, but probably mostly to the fact that I've been a customer of this dealership for 12 years and bought five new cars from them and have a bit of a "preferred customer" status, they cut me a deal.
Remember that a clutch is considered a "wear item" and to that effect, it's only covered for 12 months/12,000 miles on the Protege. Well, after 72,000 miles, my service manager cut me a bit of a deal, shall we say: I can have this upgrade performed for the shop's internal labor cost of $303, and Mazda will eat the $400 parts cost. Since I plan to keep this very reliable car until it literally falls apart, I think the $303 cost of bringing the clutch up-to-date (along with getting an entirely new clutch system at 72,000 miles) ought to go a big step toward the car's future reliability.
Over the weekend I received the card announcing that the parts have arrived, and I'll probably take the car in next week for this all-day job.
Any of you who plan to keep the car for an extended period of time might consider taking your service manager to task on this. While I have had zero clutch problems over four years, and the "chatter" hasn't gotten any worse, this seems to be a great way to get a new clutch a little early -- but for substantially less than you'll pay when it really does come clutch-replacement time.
I'll try to remember to let you guys know how the new clutch assembly works out. If you haven't heard anything from me in a few weeks, you might want to go try the Mazda Protege discussion where I normally hang out -- or the Mazda Protege Problems & Solutions discussion (under Maintenance & Repair) where this topic has been discussed ad nauseum in recent weeks.
Zoom Zoom,
Meade
Meade
Thanks
Poor Zoomster. My heart aches. Think I'll have a cry.
...
"GREAT." "JUST FINE." "LOTS OF WEAR LEFT."
I hope there's a LOT of improvement with this new one!!!
Meade
$302.50
I'll have a report on the important part -- how the car drives -- tomorrow morning.
Parts cost, from what I understand, was around $400. So figure $700 for a new clutch from Mazda, guys. (If you ever need one, that is -- read my previous post.) I'll have the receipt and some exact information tomorrow.
Meade
FP01-16-410-9U, "Clutch cvr"
FP49-11-500A, "Wheel, Fly"
B633-16-460A-9U, "Clutch Dis"
FP01-16-510, "Collar, Clu"
All of the above items were charged to "Warranty."
Here's what the service writer wrote on my order:
"Customer states chatter when letting clutch out, install S/O/P. Remove transmission and replace clutch assembly and fly wheel H0101XDX.
"Mazda goodwill to pay for parts. Customer to pay labor at $55.00 per hour at 5.5 labor hours."
And that's just what I did. 5.5 x $55.00 = $302.50. (By the way, my dealership's normal labor rate is $72.95 an hour.)
Now, the important part.
Of course, it was sunny and 70 when I picked the car up, and on the way home the car responded pretty much like it always did. If anything I noticed that engagements were a little smoother -- hard to describe. The car just felt smoother to drive.
The real difference came this morning. The day dawned sunny but cold -- 34 degrees at my house -- and dew was all over everything. It was damp! Yay, perfect clutch-chatter conditions!
I was a little nervous as I backed out of the driveway, wondering if the damned car was going to chatter anyway and I would have wasted 300 bucks. Well, I backed out into the street, put the car in first, let out the clutch, and ...
...
Smooooooooooooooth baby!!! No chatter at all. Every subsequent engagement was spot-on, textbook quality.
And this morning I had a little more time (and distance) to make some observations. Call me nuts, but I would swear the car runs more smoothly now. Maybe the clutch wasn't being held properly against the flywheel before? Maybe the tension wasn't enough on the old one when engaged and that's what caused the chatter? And therefore, with the new clutch plate held more tightly against the flywheel now, there isn't a possible slight amount of slippage or wandering on the flywheel that there may have been before? Whatever the case, it's buttah now, baby. I'm happy. The car's never felt like this before.
Zoomster and I are now looking toward that big 100K in the sky ... and we shall go on farther, my friends, in search of roads uncharted and out-of-the-way twisties!
Meade
Thanks for the update. I might try and see if my dealer will do the same. I am like you, only see the problem on cold mornings, not after a couple of miles.
When I fist start driving my car the gear box feels normal and I can shift into gears smoothly.
After a few miles or so the gears get tight and it makes a squaking sound when I shift into gear.
Also after driving for a long time ( 3 hours) the car has trouble idling. It feels like its going to stall.
Any help you could give me would be appreciated.
Love the car.
As for the idle problem -- I think I've got your problem solved. Have you ever had your spark plug wires replaced? This is my third Protege over the course of 12 years, and ever since the first one, which started having the same problem at about 35,000 miles, I have learned and become accustomed to replacing my plug wires every 30,000 miles. The design of Mazda's cylinder head takes the wires about six inches down inside the engine to connect to the plugs. This area gets very hot and can also attract moisture, and the ends of the wires do break down over time and can short to the walls of the head. A replacement set runs anywhere from $40 aftermarket to around $75 for the OEM Mazda set from the factory. Replacement takes all of five minutes and is very simple, as long as you replace one wire at a time and pay attention to which wire you're replacing as you go.
I'll almost bet money that replacing the wires will solve your problem, assuming you've kept up on your recommended maintenance and you've already replaced the plugs themselves.
Meade
Liven up your evening and join your fellow enthusiasts every Tuesday from 6-7pm PT/9-10pm ET for our Mazda Mania Chat!
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PF Flyer
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http://web2.airmail.net/theman/protegefaq/tsb/
MAZ B26R-34-170 (Link control, 9") qty. = 2 @ 45.11 each
MAZ 9994-01-000 (nut, flange) qty. = 8 @ 3.30 each
MAZ BJOE-28-170 (link, control-stab) qty. = 2 @ 41.74 each
total parts = 200.10
total labor = 228.00
total charge = 428.10
Please note that those parts prices are what my dealer actually charged me...about 25% to 30% above Mazda suggested retail. My dealer also went a little crazy with the labor charges.
YMMV.
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How many did they replace?
Meade
"Funny how when I took it in for the same noise under warranty it was the jack, and now that it is out of warranty it is $300."
LOL! This must be one of the best summaries I've seen of auto problems! It might well sway a judge in small claims court. I'll borrow this and store it for possible future use, if I may. :-)
Thanks -- and my commiseration.
Thanks.
Also, the torque wrench is meaningless if the threads aren't clean and you can never be sure the threads are clean.
Have fun.
We think the noise is coming from the front passenger wheel. Has anybody had a similar problem?
Also read the regular P5 section for more info about this.
As for whether it is coming from the front or rear, we too have debated it. Sometimes it sounds like the front and other times we have thought rear. Just seemed like more times it sounded like the front.
Thanks for sharing your experience.
Hope this helps with your diagnosis! Good Luck!
Hopefully you find the source of your problem. But do get them to check the rears as if it goes too long, you will end up having to replace more than the pads.
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