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Comments
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Had an opportune chance to test drive and look over two 2003 Camry LEs --
one produced on Japan and one from Kentucky USA. Now I realize that this is
only a single sample from each factory, but here are my observations:
1. The USA model has slightly better bolstering in the seats and apparently
plusher fabrics.
2. Japan model has quieter engine (4cyl) and better dash plastics --
especially the clear plastics (have fewer minute scratches)
3. Radio sounds a bit better in USA model -- clearer highs and mids --
guessing speaker quality is better
4. Japanese car fitted with Bridgestone Potenza RE92s seems to grip better
on turns than USA Conti A/S Touring. Both tires noisy however.
5. Paint on lower exterior door panels very smooth in Japanese model; some
wavy patterns in USA model.
6. Rattles in USA model during test drive. Most coming from dash and door
areas. Japanese model solid as a tank.
Very impressed with the build quality of the Japanese model. Some of the
parts quality (interior) seems better with the USA car (yes, I know that
Toyota vendors are required to build according to exact specs). Both
outstanding cars, but I would prefer the Japanese built Camry.
If there is a know rattle caused by improper radio installation alluded to several posts up, PELASE ELABORATE!!!!!
jtbruin--If you're having to ask about the rattles, I wouldn't worry! The ones I had when I first bought my car were not the kind you had to listen for! I'm guessing they've fixed a lot of these build-quality problems in the past nine months. Also, you can take your Toyota to any dealer--they're glad to do the work as they get paid from Toyota.
denatz--the one by the windshield, is it persistant? Mine turned out to be a bad weld in the body under the windshield and wiper assemblies. (see my earlier post).
I was told several different things for my rattle, loose body bolt, loose radio bracket, final lie, oops, solution was a faulty clip on the cowl. Who knows?
The also had the cracking noise from the front and rear windows. On this I was told when they installed the windows they use a guide pin in the brackets for the windows. The district Rep. had the dealer remove the guide pins. The harsh cracking noise is gone and is replaced with an annoying softer squeaking noise.
I have a 98 Tacoma also. It is a very rough ride, but it does not make a SOUND. The cars are just getting cheaper. I read before the new style of Camry came out that Toyota's goal was to produce a car to sell for the same price as the previous model but to cost 30 percent less to manufacture. Thus the reason for our rattles and squeaks.
andrelaplume--I wouldn't suppose that your dash rattle is the same one that they found on my car. I'm kind of getting the impression that these cars rattle all over, and that even Toyota isn't completely knowledgeable about where they all are. (It did take my dealer three days *with constant toyota help* to locate my rattle). No, there was no other way to access it except under the windshield wiper stuff--but I don't think it takes them long to remove that stuff).
I still say that if you can stand the hastle of dropping the car off and bumming rides, the best way to go is to let the dealer take a crack at it. (Easier if the rattle is persistant).
98yoda--How many times did you take your camry in for them to fix that dash rattle? The first time I took mine in they glibly told me that they "added some insulation" up under the dash. Well, having been inside my dash many, many times I knew for a fact the next time I was in there that they were not truthful.
I totally subscribe to the theory that this is an experiment in lowering the cost of the vehicles. The thing that really sucks for me is that I bought the brand based on the reputation, but happened to pick the year that they pulled out all the stops to lower costs!
The other thing that concerns me is how the rattles seem to "develop" as the first thousand or two miles are put on the car. I can't help but to wonder how many more rattles are going to develop over the next year. I kind of suspect that I should trade it in before it gets too old!
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/tsb/
We had the dealer fix this and have not had another rattle with our 2002 LE in the past 7,000 miles.
Good luck.
The noise will sound like it is moving around. My wife was in the passenger side and I was driving and we heard a new loud rattle. I said it was the passenger side, she said it was the driver's side. We argued for a minute, I stopped the car dead in the middle of the road,(at least the ABS work), and we switched places. NOW I heard it on the drivers side and she heard it on the passenger side. WEIRD. Thank god it was only her sunglasses in the overhead compartment.
My newest flaw with the car is a gasket between the front and back door. There is a piece of rubber that you can see between the doors when they are shut. This is attached to the back door that can be seen when it is open. The dealer has ordered new one because of "fault clips". It doesn't hurt anything but I bought a Camry so I didn't have to see my dealer. If I wanted to see a dealer this often I would have bought a Chrysler or Ford.
The noise will sound like it is moving around. My wife was in the passenger side and I was driving and we heard a new loud rattle. I said it was the passenger side, she said it was the driver's side. We argued for a minute, I stopped the car dead in the middle of the road,(at least the ABS work), and we switched places. NOW I heard it on the drivers side and she heard it on the passenger side. WEIRD. Thank god it was only her sunglasses in the overhead compartment.
My newest flaw with the car is a gasket between the front and back door. There is a piece of rubber that you can see between the doors when they are shut. This is attached to the back door that can be seen when it is open. The dealer has ordered new one because of "fault clips". It doesn't hurt anything but I bought a Camry so I didn't have to see my dealer. If I wanted to see a dealer this often I would have bought a Chrysler or Ford.
I opened up the door and found what is potentially the cause. The inner door fascia has metal hooks at the top that hang onto the framework of the door. Metal on metal. Looked to me like a potential source of clicks, creaks and rattles. My door rattles in exactly the location where the metal hooks hang onto the metal door frame. There are nylon clips and a few screws that secure the inner door fascia to the metal door, but the weight of the fascia is supported by metal hooks at the top.
I placed a couple of strips of tough foam insulation (not the cheap, soft A/C stuff) on the metal framework where the metal hooks on the fascia rest. After securing the fascia, I took a test drive and heard no rattle. It will take a few days before I know whether or not the fix was effective.
I've read references to a rattle at the roof liner. I think that Toyota is aware of this particular rattle and has a "shim kit" for it. My 2003 Camry rattled above the rear window. Just a touch of the roof liner above the rear window and I knew exactly where the rattle came from. I cut a strip of 1/2" cylindrical insulation a few inches shorter than the width of the rear window and shoved it between the roof liner and the glass. There is certainly enough of a gap to accommodate the insulation. Again, it will take a few days before I can confirm that this was a good fix, although I am confident that this simple fix worked.
P.S. I rue the day that I bought my 2003 Camry.
When you say you opened up the door,did you mean you removed the door panels? If you did, you are a brave man. I am really interested to know if it works? Please keep us informed. I have a vacation planned for mid summer, 6 hours away, and my goal is to have all the squeaks and rattles gone by then.
Sorry about previous nothing message. Hit the wrong button
Doors (front) are easy to open up and put back together. Only thing to keep in mind is that when your removing the handle/control assembly it lifts up in the back, then slides out. (After taking the screw out, of course). Don't attempt to pry the front up, or it'll just break a plastic lip that slides under the door panel.
I've yet to take apart the rear doors, but have taken out all the kick panels, lower door sills, b-pillar covers, etc., if anybody needs info on those. (Stereo installation).
#1,"rattle in center of dash"
"Raise car on hoist, adjust catalytic converter heat shield vibrating against floor of car"
#2 "popping noise from windshield"
"Lower head liner, remove alignment pins on windshield. Remove lower windshield cowl panel. Insulate panel from windshield. Install foam around contact areas. Also Rt A pillar cover. Reass, Test ok."
I left the dealership with little hope of success for home, a 45 mile drive, 39 degrees outside temp, over highway with very sharp cracks every 20 feet, "radio off". I was pleasantly surprised that the noises were all gone. I am now very happy that I had the dealer try to repair this. This tech knew his stuff. The car is much more enjoyable to drive. Part 2 next post.
Can you tell me how to fully remove the front door fascia? I have removed the 3 or 4 screws, removed the window & lock module, removed the plastic piece at the front of the window, and popped the nylon fasteners around the perimeter of the fascia. However, the fascia is held securely and pivots at the upper front corner. I do not want to force the fascia off in this area for fear of damaging something.
Plan B for me is to completely remove the fascia and stow it in the trunk for a few days. My latest hunch is that the fascia itself is weak and is the source of my creaks and rattles. If not, finding the source within the door should be much easier with the fascia removed.
Thanks.
Let's see...it's been six months or so. There is a piece of plastic behind the door release latch, remove it and the screw behind it--sounds like that's the one you missed.
Sorry it took me a few days to respond--the site was not accepting updates for awhile.
Derrick
No, I never did take the b pillars apart--at least not the upper fascia. I know the lower fascia comes off easily enough, and can't imagine that the upper would be hard to remove.
My thinking was to remove the upper fascia and place adhesive felt on the back of the fascia where the belt slides contacts the fascia. I would also wiggle everything in there and see what rattles while it's apart. One thing I've noticed is that the buckles hit the pillar if the seatbelt is not in use and the adjuster is not in the highest position.
Lower panel: Snaps onto the upper (lighter) portion just below the seam. Reach under the internal (color of interior) weatherstripping type material just below the top of the lower (darker) panel. Pull sideways on each side of the lower panel to unsnap from the upper panel. Note a projection under the rearward side of the panel that will be placed under the black door trim upon reassembly. There is a plastic plug further down the panel. Pull the piece straight out to release that plug from the metal car frame. Even further down, there is another very similar plug. Same deal, but be careful with the lower plug because it isn't secured to the interior panel very well and could fall into the body of the car - never to be seen again!
Regarding the upper panel that houses the seatbelt height adjuster: It's been so long since I removed that piece that my memory of the details isn't good. I think that it is primarily held in place with clips and plugs. I recall at least one metal clip that slid below the black door trim. I also recall that reassembly was hairy because the chintzy plastic button assembly has to line up with a substantial metal assembly underneath that also has a button on it. In short, the button mechanisms must fit together precisely or the height adjuster will not operate. However, once I figured out how to realign the mechanicals, the plastic part wasn't too bad.
I also placed some thick a/c foam in strategic locations in the lower B pillar panel. Care was taken to not interfere with seatbelt travel. If you look at the back of the lower B pillar panel, you will find some circular projections. I wonder whether some of those projections, or other parts of the plastic panel tap against the metal B pillar. I also wonder whether the cable at the bottom of the B pillar taps against the plastic. Anyway, I stuffed some foam between the circular projections and the side of the plastic panel in about 3 spots. I figured the foam would stay secure in these locations and never hinder seatbelt operation.
I still have clicks and creaks all over the place (but not at the B pillars), and am resigned to living with them. However, my front passenger door issue is a true rattle, and I am still working on it. The weather has been too poor lately for me to work on the car.
I opened up the front passenger door today for about the third time. I've also had the car at the dealership twice for the same rattle. There is a clear plastic liner glued to the metal door frame that obviously had never been touched by dealership techs during either visit. I took the entire inner panel off, examined it and shook it to check for loose parts, then stashed it in the trunk for a test drive. The issues that I found were that the latch cable and the lock cable crossed over each other where I heard the "upper" rattle. I wrapped the cables. There is a foam block attached to the bottom of the inner door liner. It rocked slightly on its permanent (melted plastic) attachment points. I shimmed it with a small piece of foam. This may have accounted for the "lower" rattle, which could easily be mistaken for a B pillar rattle. The clear plastic liner is rigid and crinkly, and a cable or the inner door liner bumping against it might be heard. So, I placed a 16" x 16" piece of felt rug pad over the clear plastic liner before replacing the fascia.
I've had an intermittent rattle at the top of the driver's side door in the area of the latch/lock mechanisms. The sound was like a cable bumping against something. So, I pulled off the driver's door liner and poked around. By the way, the lower rear clip had been broken at the factory. I surely did not break it, and the broken off head was nowhere to be found. I found that the cable to the mirror was uninsulated and touching the metal door frame. I wrapped it. I also noticed that the "shell" that surrounds the latch and lock mechanisms was very loose in the door liner. I could shake it around in the door liner - the fit was that poor. Since the "shell" is secured to the metal door frame with a screw when the inner door liner is installed, the poor fit probably did not result in a rattle. To be sure while the door was already open, I shimmed the part from behind. Once again, the lock and latch cables crossed over and were uninsulated. I wrapped them while the door was open even though I did not have a rattle in the vicinity. The uninsulated window and lock cables were leaning against the metal door frame, so I wrapped them. Lastly, I also placed a 16" x 16" piece of felt over the clear plastic liner only because I had done the same on the passenger side.
Time will tell whether my efforts were worthwhile.
Weather permitting, I'm going to tackle the rear passenger door next week.
I hope all your work pays off. If it does I have a friend who is a bodyman who will do the same to my Camry.
Are you sure the rattle in your dash is not the cat. converter as discussed in previous messages?
Most of my new dash noises are clicking sounds from the area at which the dash meets the windshield. I think that somebody has commented on this rattle either here or elsewhere. I'll have to research that one.
Other parts of the dash speak up when the car flexes, typically when I back out of my driveway and onto the street.
My feeling is that the current, extended Camry platform isn't really as rigid as Toyota claims it is, and body flexion (along with cost cutting design) has contributed to the interior rattles that we hear.
My two front doors have been better, but the interior rattles are the worst when temps are in the 30's and 40's, so the doors haven't been through thermal testing yet!
Is it a clicking sound or louder cracking sound from your windshield. If it is a cracking noise, I mentioned in a previous message the the Toyota tech removed guide pins in the brackets that hold the rear window in. I assumed the front window is attached the same.
If it is a clicking noise it may be a faulty clip in the cowl of the windshield. This is what the shop told me it was and the noise finally went away. Now is that the truth? Who knows.
Driving home tonite a new noise started coming from our driver side area. I believe I read before that the outside mirror screws were loose and a noise started to come from there. My car has 16,000 miles on it and it is noisier than my 91 nissan with 150,000 miles on it.
I agree totally with you. I believe it is a much less rigid platform. And the noise drives me insane when it is 30-50 degrees out. That is tough because my car rattles like crazy in the morning when I drive to the dealer. I will check in, wait a while, as my car sits in the sun warming up, and the tech finnaly drives it and says "I don't hear a thing." Reports "cannot duplicate noise." Very, Very frustrating. I
After reading a few posts on possible solutions I decided to stop by the dealer one cold morning and go for a test drive. The tech heard the noise as we drove. He almost immediately thought the noise was actually outside the car and was either windshield clips or the piece of plastic under the wipers but over the windshield. I was skeptical as we drove along because the rattles appeared at different locations. When we stopped I remained in the car at the wheel. He exited the car and closed the door. On the passenger side he started poking around the plastic piece just under the wipers/over the windshield. Sure enough I heard crackling that at first came from the drivers side and then else where as he poked around. He said the noise was actually from outside the car and passing in thru the glass.
I dropped the car the next day. I have had it back now for four days. The creaking is gone (so far) when I brake or pull out. It also appears to be gone while driving. I HOPE IT LASTS!!!!! Of course now the passenger pillar door rattle is that much louder as is the driver side. I will return to Toyota in a few weeks and give them a shot at fixing this too.
I too, remain skeptical but those of you waiting for a solution might want to schedule an appt for this fix. It was not very invasive and the chance of it making things worse appears nill. Here is what the work order (covered under warranty of course) said:
Cowl Panel making contact with windsheild, Tech R&R cowl panel. Installed noise reduction tape and road tested, noise is gone.
GOOD LUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!
PS...Love this car!! Bought the split five-spoke alloys, and body-colored mud guards off the Internet. Sharp, sharp, sharp!
I took the rear passenger door liner off today and did some investigation. Unlike the front door liners, the rear door liners do not hang on the metal door frame. Instead, they are just held in place using 5 screws and many plastic fasteners. I found a few spots where the unpadded window/lock harness and the unpadded latch and lock cables were in contact with the metal door frame, so I padded them.
Interesting to note that the rear interior door fascia has an open gap at the B pillar. For those of you with B pillar rattles, check this one out. Open a rear door and observe/feel the front of the interior door fascia where it meets the metal door frame. The gap that you will find extends right into the door. Could rear door rattles be mistaken for B pillar rattles because of this gap?
Again, it will take some time and perhaps weather changes before I can report back on rattle reduction.
Like APlume we are fleeing from Ford/Mercury Taurus and Sable. I think I will be upset too if I had a bunch of rattles. On the other hand I'm betting I won't be replacing darn near everything on the car as I did with the 93 Sable.
Why are some people here attending on these problems themselves without dealer assitance?
Congratulations, and I hope that you enjoy your new ride. The new V6 must be a pleasure to drive.
CR has downgraded the current Camry model because of the interior rattle issue, and Toyota has acknowledged (but not fixed) the interior rattle issue as well.
I'd like to think that the problem was low volume on 2002's and corrected for 2003, but that was not the case. Many of the rattles are not present during the first few hundred miles but develop during the first few thousand miles. My new dash rattles developed fairly quickly at 6.5k miles.
The rattles in my car have come so fast and furiously that I probably could make weekly trips to the dealership if you count attempted fixes and attempted refixes. This a summary of the rattles:
front passenger door
passenger side B pillar
rear passenger door
driver's door
rear headliner
rear deck area
dashboard rattles near windshield (new for Spring)
I made 2 visits to my dealership to fix a very pronounced rattle in the front passenger door. The rattle was so constant that the dealership service representative heard the rattle as he drove the car 100' over smooth pavement to a parking spot. The rattle was not fixed. When I later opened up the door myself, I noticed that the interior weather liner had not been touched since the car had been assembled - contradicting the information on my completed work report from the dealership.
I don't work on Fridays and could in fact spend every one of them sitting in the dealership waiting area, or being a crank at the service counter complaining about fixes not performed.
However, despite my diligence with disassembling the interior of my 2003 Camry in hopes of finding and fixing the sources of rattles, I have placed the issue in perspective and just want the rattles fixed in the most expeditious manner possible. If I must perform the work myself in order to reach my goal of rattle reduction in the most efficient manner possible - so be it.
In a few years, I will express my confidence in Toyota and American design and assembly quality with my wallet by purchasing another make and most certainly a model of Japanese assembly. Too bad, because my 1997 Camry (assembled in Kentucky) was the best car that I have owned - and I had 3 new Hondas before that.
Can you have a car 'lemon'ed because of rattles that can't be fixed?
Are the dealers being cooperative about this and trying to give satisfaction?
How do I tell the production date on my car? Is it on the sticker somewhere?
I don't know what the inside of a well designed car's door panel should look like, but do you see signs of poor design that has caused these problems or are they assembly problems. You can design rattles out of a car by having more integrated parts.
Keep us posted, I hope you soon reach zero rattles.
This is my wife's car and she is much less tolerant about rattles than I am.
My car looks very well assembled. Everything lines up, and nothing was askew upon delivery. I found a broken fastener in the driver's door, but that is very minor and there are no overt signs that the car was slapped together. In fact, the paint job is far superior to that of my 1997.
This has lead me to believe that cost-cutting design deficiencies may play a greater role than final assembly quality in the case of interior rattles. The fact that most of the rattles are temperature sensitive points to same. Cheaper or fewer fasteners? It isn't for nothing that my 1997 and 2003 were 6 years and just a couple of hundred $ apart in price.
Which brings up the issue of finding rattles. They are so tough to ferret out because the interior looks properly assembled inside and out. That means multiple trips to the dealership can yield no positive result because the rattles are like gremlins. I can fault the dealership for falsifying their completed work reports, but not for having so much trouble finding rattles that may be by design.
I had the front wheel bearings fail on a Honda at 20k miles. The wheel bearings were replaced and a period was placed at the end of the problem. Not the case with rattles - they are far more difficult to remedy and seem to have 9 lives.
Aside from interior rattles, the car has been mechanically sound, and the performance gain with the 2.4 liter VVTi engine is significant. I averaged 30.5 MPG's on a recent tankful that was used 80-90% highway.
I think that the local (Massachusetts) Lemon Law would require me to lose use of the car for X number of days over the same problems. The car runs fine, so I doubt that persistent rattles are covered.
The rattles have been aptly described here as akin to "water torture", and I agree. That's what drove me to 'open my first door'!
I believe that a plaque in the driver's doorjam will note the month of manufacture. I found that someone had written 9/26/02 on a metal plate inside my rear passenger door, so I assume that my car was assembled on that date.
my 94 camry is quiet at 105K miles
it sounds like light tapping so far and seems to be coming from the steering gauges, or front dash/windshield. It isn't very loud, but seems like it can get annoying. From what you guys are posting so far, it seems that the rattles develope in these first thousand miles, so i'm sure it may develop later. anyone know if this is how their rattle started? should i be concerned? thanks