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Toyota Sienna Maintenance and Repair (2004+)
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I have owned this 2004 Toyota Sienna XLE Limited 4WD for only 4 months, now the AC is broken!!! The dealer said it is a defect and would take 3 weeks for the parts. Has anybody else have problems???? Is there any place I can complain?
Thanks
I'm very sorry to hear what you're going through . We purchased a 2004 Sienna LE AWD in July of last year and had similar responses from our dealership . I would definitely take advice from others and get the Transmission problem checked further if the problem continues. Some of the other Sienna owners getting the TSB Transmission fix seem to be having luck with it. I've chatted with numerous owners who still have the problem after the software change or software flashes have been performed. Several have even had there transmissions replaced in an attempt to stop the problem. I've also read where some of these replaced transmissions even had metal particles in the fluid . Related Issue ??? who Knows
Some of the other people on the site could better update you on the current progress Toyota is making with this Problem. Unfortunately our vehicle had an extreme case of unpredictable jerks,hesitations and full throttle accelerations.And our dealer caused more problems than helped . We walked away from the vehicle after 4 months and before the software fixes started coming out in November. The best the owner of our dealership offered us was to drive it in 3rd gear while waiting for the new software to be developed. We had some scary close calls in everything from parking lot to highway traffic and decided to take the loss and not risk our safety any longer.We were told at that time the problem existed in the complete product line and was in the transmission's software.We were told the problem would vary with road conditions,the loading of the vehicle ,the driver, the accelerator pedal position and the speed the vehicle was moving . Initially before our dealer admitted there was a problem , we were told that we " Hadn't taught the transmission to drive properly "( similar to what you were told). Our dealer was very unproffesional -But There are a lot of good ones out there.
It does sound like some positive headway is being made .I hope you find a helpfull dealer and everything works out for you and your family.
On a positive note - when the vehicle drove properly it was one of the nicest vehicles we had ever owned. It has a lot of great features
Take care and best wishes to you and your family
Signed - Poorer but wiser Canuck
An E-throttle gives the software guys more control over your driving style. Want to JAM the throttle causing a downshift while turning hard right?
NOT!
FWD vehicles lose control (torque steer, understeering, etc.) too easily that way.
Only God know just how many VSC algorithms are enabled by that e-throttle.
i thought it was made that way.
i like it like that, because it makes fitting larger objects in that much easier. Plus, it fits my youngest's stoller perfectly with out taking the wheels off. boy!, that stroller is a tank
Theory was correct. The A/C belt was loose. They tightened it and the problem is gone. Be more insistent. It seems they only really pay attention when they realize you won't accept a flimsy explanation to get them off the hook temporarily.
Good luck.
EWT wrote:
I did some more testing of timing advance with the OBD-II software, and I'm fairly sure 91 octane doesn't make any difference relative to 87. The reason I'm hedging somewhat is that the software displays data in real time, but only logs about 1 frame/second, which makes it impossible to determine if octane has any effect under hard accleration because you just get a random "snapshot" of timing rather than a nice continuous stream of data to look at. The "snapshots" are too random and incomplete to draw any conclusions from and watching it in real time doesn't work either because it updates very quickly, and you need to reference the timing advance to the gear/rpm to draw any conclusions.
87 vs. 91 octane doesn't make any difference in timing cruising at 35 or 70 mph, and from my experience with other cars, using too-low octane gas would show up there as well. I'd guess that Toyota didn't map timing advance aggressively enough to take advantage of 91 octane. It might make a difference towing a boat up a mountain, but it doesn't look like it matters for normal driving.
You definitely are not "mistreating" or "abusing" your Sienna by using 87 octane. Use 87 octane and save $.20 a gallon.
The problems we had started on the drive home from the dealership the first day. The initial problems were mainly the feeling something wasn't right. Jerky rough shifting and some hesitations when you would step on the gas . The problem seemed worse when my wife drove initially. But after 4 months and 8000km the problem had grown in severity and frequency and it didn't matter who drove. One instance in a parking lot ,I pressed the accelerator pedal slightly just to start moving towards the exit and the vehicle paused , then shot up in revs to 5000rpm and lurched us forward.
It did this on other occasions under varying circumstances. It wasn't repeatable nor predictable. The overall shifting charachteristics caused problems where we no longer used the cruise control either.We became scared with the behavior and finally walked away from the vehicle. We drove several other Siennas at the time and never experienced the severe surges. But they all had the jerky rough shift trait and pause in the shifting or acceleration to some extent or another.It sounds like things are getting better with this problem since software changes in Nov 03 but we still hear of people complaining about the shifting on new vehicles they bought just this month.
Our dealer hadn't flashed the memory or tried anything to resolve our problems.They said the problem was in the software and told us to drive around in 3rd gear to try and minimize the problem untill a software fix came out,we didn't wait that long.
We were told the problem would vary n every Sienna, by vehicle type and loading,driver,speed of travel,accelerator pedal positon and road conditions.
I think the problem still exists but is a lot better. I would personally go with a 2005 but with a 2004 or a 2005 I would try and drive the actual vehicle you intend to purchase on at least a 24 hour test drive if you can. If there is more than one driver I would recommend you each try driving it for a period of time.
Some of the other members may have some recommendations based on currently built vehicles or ones with current software.Like I say ours was an early 2004 LE AWD with no changes,upgrades or attempts to see if the problem was beyond software.
When they run good they are a nice vehicle . They have a lot of excellent options.
What ever you choose I sincerely hope it works out good for you and your family.
Canuck2
Not to keep yattering but a few minor typical new car bugs to watch for are :
Check the weather stripping on both back side vent windows.
The piece in the bottom corner on both sides shaped like an L fell off on our vehicle.
Check the tire pressure on the run flat style tires . They need a higher operating pressure and all ours were underinflated causing some handling problems
Check the body panel clips that attach the plastic wrap around portion of the rear bumper to the rear quarter panel in the rear wheel well area. Ours weren't installed correctly and the panels kept unhinging and flapping.
Add some loktite to the antenna - ours was constantly wiggling loose.
Ask if the spray nozzels on the hood are the newest style. They've changed the design because they were popping off in use . I'm not sure what the newer ones look like. But ours popped off on the driverside and it took our dealer 12 weeks to replace it.Using a squeegee and a squirt bottle wasn't very impressive all summer long.
I'm sure A competent dealer will probably do it for you in a matter of days should it happen to you.
Thats about it other than my Calgary dealer problems and I'll spare you those details.
If you get a vehicle with only the expected bugs here and there I think you'll like it.
Some people have trouble adapting to the way the tranny and drive by wire throttle behaves. So far Toyota has made 1 software update to smooth the shifting on the tranny, which seems to have placated some owners.
So far this year Toyota has sold just under 90,000 Siennas (June figures) and last year sold 105,000 of them. If there were wide spread problems we would have heard much more. I spend a fair amount of time on several forums and beyond the complaints I mentioned (shifting/throttle) there have not been many failures.
I know of one forum member who read Canuck2's posts and took his Sienna in immediately to see if there were metal shavings in his tranny, there were not.
In any case, the tranny is covered under warranty and if it does fail it will be replaced. If you are really worried, buy an extended warranty that covers the first 100k miles.
The new Odyssey will soon be out (September) and will be a very nice alternative to the Sienna and will likely offer some nice features the Sienna does not. Like memory power seats for example. I would look strongly at both.
I noticed a coolant smell but see no fluid leaking also so the radiator needs a checkup too.
If you are manually shifting to that great an extent, it seems you are really working the car hard if you are manually shifting all the way down to 1. Keep in mind that brakes are much cheaper and easier to replace than a transmission.
Depending on where you live, ie Rocky Mtn area, I can easily see you wanting to use engine braking to ease the load on the brakes. Are you trying to rpm match as the transmission is shifting? That can mitigate some of the problem to make smoother downshifts.
We all have our driving habits, but on a modern car it is better to just coast and apply brakes than to down shift.
I first noticed it in my 01 AWD RX300.
While the potential is really only present on a low traction surface since the manufaturers can't detect that you are left with no significant engine braking on FWD vehicles.
Go out and test drive a new BMW X3 or X5 if you want to get a "feel" for an AWD system (with definite rear bias) that provides tons of engine braking.
I added the correct type of fluid (Dexron II/III ATF) and the whine went away, but I've noticed that the level of the fluid in the resevoir will drop a little bit everyday. And yes, I've checked it both when it's cold (car hasn't been running all day/night) and when it's warm (car has been running for 30 minutes or more). I have noticed some fluid on the ground. I don't see any signs of fluid leaking from the resevoir, which leads me to believe the leak is in the pump itself. Steering seems to be fine, so I don't think anything critical has been compromised by the low fluid level.
The van is an XLE Limited with 16K miles on it. It will be going to the dealer for it's 15K maintenance later this week, so I'll have them look at the leak. Just wondering if other people have encountered the same sort of leak.
Other than this relatively minor leak, the car seems to be holding up rather well for us. We're averaging about 20 to 21 MPG when driven on the highway (I5 at 80 to 85MPH with the AC on most of the way), and about 17 to 18 in the city. We're using 87 octane.
Anyone out there...
Thanks.
Steve, Host
Obviously the lower engine braking would result in an improvement in fuel economy also.
The shop manual for my 01 AWD RX says that anytime I apply the brakes the torque convertor is unlocked immediately.
There is a note somewhere indicating that under cruise control the torque converter lock-up and unlock is used to help maintain speed during coasting downhill so you don't have the same effect.
If you have a tachometer then watch it for how much it deviates just before and after your hear the "tick" a large deviation would indicate a torque converter lock/unlock.
Seriously, all caps (at least in the civilian world) is considered shouting and rude behavior on the message boards (link). Glad you found a shift key :-).
Steve, Host
BTW, we got our LE in Nov. and have the exact same problem as you. Had the ECM update, but I am still unhappy. Drives differently, but no better. I dread the cold weather, the car is AWFUL when it gets cold.
I firmly believe, and I have been posting on this forum a while, that each car is DIFFERENT and you MUST drive the one you are buying for 24 hours to make sure it is "peppy" when starting from a standstill. I have been behind and besides '04 Siennas and have tried to see how I accelerate when the light turns greem as compared to these others. Twice they were XLE's driven by non-hot rod looking ladies :-) and, with my foot to the floor, I could NOT catch up to them (even turned the a/c off before moving). I have asked people in parking lots how they like their LE's and they all agree they are sluggish and slow to get up to speed. Are all XLE's peppier? Or was this just coincidence? I don't know, but it's worth looking into.
I am also VERY VERY disappointed with the Toyota paint - it is total crap - the slightest thing will scratch it - Honda paint is MUCH MUCH better, it takes a lot to mark up a Honda. Lexus is as bad as Toyota, surprise, surprise. My mom just got a Lexus and can't believe how easily it scratches - her Cadillac had paint akin to many coats of rubber - never a mark in 12 years! HOW CAN WE GET TOYOTA TO LISTEN ABOUT THE PAINT?? It makes the car feel and look very cheap when you can't even keep a brand new car looking new and free of scratches and dents - and I am careful to always park away from people in parking lots if I can.
Wendy
Well, I bought our LE from Miller - went back there because of the salesman - we bought our '91 Previa from him, and went back to buy our Sienna from him. Now is that loyalty or what? <smile>
BUT, I had my oil changed there - simple thing - but the didn't reset the "maintenance required" warning light. So the light comes on, I pull off the road, and go through the manual to figure out what had happened and how to do the reset.
THEN, I took the Sienna in for sluggish shifting. I have no problem with it shifting when accelerating from a stop - it seems to have plenty of pickup then, and goes smoothly through the gears. But this weekend I did some experimenting. I was on a level and straight road doing 35, and firmly pushed the accelerator down about an inch. The tachometer immediately registered the change, and then .... after a lag... and then some, the transmission kicked in and the van began to pick up speed. I tried it again at 45 - same thing.
So then I took my wife's car to the same road and did the same thing. She has an '04 Honda CR-V (you know, the ones that catch fire after their first oil change?). Anyway, I did exactly the same thing with the CR-V that I did with the Sienna. The CR-V has a smaller engine. I noticed a lag between pressing the accelerator and having the vehicle respond - some lag is normal, at least in all of the cars I've owned to date. But I would guess the lag in the CR-V to be a third to a quarter of the length of the lag in the Sienna.
Anyway, I took it in to Miller for the transmission, they "recalibrated the ECM", as far as I know they did not update the software (as per the TSB on this), and said that some lag is normal.
So I don't know if the fix described in the TSB will solve this for me or not, but I'll need to take it to another dealer to find out ... not Koons, though. <smile>
LynneM
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/driveHabits.shtml
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Very much agree on the crumby paint!!!!!
The a/c performed normally for their tests running 43-47 degrees at the center vents. I've got one of these nifty gauges so I'll run an extended test of my own.
The coolant smell was blamed on the undercoating (cozmolene)sp? where a small amount was on the exhaust. Since I'm unfamiliar with what cozmolene smells like and all the fluid levels are in check I'll wait this one out too.
It's easy to see why it is a problem if not installed properly. You would think they could have come up with a better design.
Good luck.
Steve, Host