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Some of it does not look good.
They have also changed pricing on the 17" wheels on the different options.
First off: It looks like you have to get the 1SB and the PDX Sport Package to get the Xenon headlights. Ugggh.
You have to order the 1SB to get the split folding seats. Can't get it on the base.
If you want the 17" painted wheels then they are:
1SA = $895
1SB = $345
But I think you can still get the Sport package on the base without ordering the 1SB or 1sc packages. 17" wheels come with Sport Package.
Don't understand why we can't pick and choose more.
Does your dealer actually have any on the lot?
I think he is mistaken.
Just reread the kbb.com price list and this is what it says:
If you order the 1SB package the 3.6L VVT automatically comes with it. The 1SB has a MSRP of $5235. The invoice is $4449. maybe this is where you got the $4800 price from.
MSRP on the base car plus the 1SB would be $36,070!!!
But the 3.6L VVT engine is clearly available on the base car as a stand alone option. It is $1700 and the 5 spd auto is included in that price.
I would print out the kbb or edmund's report and take it to him or go to another dealer.
Looks like a big misunderstanding to me.
You can order the base car, get the V6 3.6L and no other options and have a MSRP of $32535!
Invoice would be under 30K.
I think the 17" wheel compliment the car while the the 16" look to old fogey
1st year problems ... clock out of sync (replaced cluster ... bought me nearly 500 miles since they had to set the new one manually prior to shipping to the dealer) ... leaky license bezel seal (replaced/resealed ... no problems since) ... it just developed the driver side floor puddle .. they replaced both door seals and the cowl seal .. I mentioned the TSB on the AC problem, they said that one affected the psgr side only ... we'll see ... the foam's still wet under the carpet (i think they should have replaced it ... if it starts to smell I'll take it back in).
I have the Sterling Silver, with the now discontinued "Dark Pewter" (dark gray)interior ... I like it much better than the "Ebony" (flat black) ... really complements the exterior colour. Chose the autobox due to the morning stop'n'go, but use Sport mode quite a bit just for fun .. used the tranny "reset" tip from this board recently ... not sure if it made a difference. Xenon headlights are great (not as blue as Audi/BMW, but vertical stack is impressive). Don't like the yellow DRL's, makes the car look heavy ... would prefer the low or hi-beams at lower intensity. I tend to use the low beams except in bright sunlight.
Notice that the 17" mirror polish aluminum wheels are now a pricy option ("bright finish" 17's are the base wheels on the Sport for the remaining 2003's).. these were the only available wheels on the original CTS Sport.
Looks like GM reads the reviews .. late '03 and 2004 changes pretty much in line with major nags:
- temp gauge instead of analog clock (late '03)
- 3.6L with 35 extra HP ('04)
- lumbar support ('04)
Continuing my tradition of giving unsolicited advice: Never settle for your second choice if you can afford your first choice. If you thought you were tied between the CTS and the G35 and are sad because you think you can't get a CTS, you've just admitted that the CTS really was your first choice. My gut tells me that if you don't buy a CTS, every time you pass one in whatever else you buy, you'll regret settling for something else.
No matter whether we have to really stretch our budget to buy one of these cars or whether we can pay cash for it with our pocket change, we are talking about too much money to settle for second choices.
And yes, I took my 24 hour test drive in February of 2002 in a car which was on loan from the factory. Rydell also gave me a 24 hour test drive with my '97 Catera. I think Rydell may have been the originator of the 24 hour test drive idea, and GM picked it up because it proved so successful to Rydell. By the way I understand that Rydell owns some very successful GM dealerships up north in Wisconsin or Minnesota. They were specifically asked by GM to take over most of the GM dealerships in the Van Nuys area with the exception of Casa de Cadillac, so they got the Northridge Cadillac agency instead.
Just looking right now but are there any interesting comments about the new 04 model? I'm driving a Saab right now and will be coming up on the end of my smart buy next year. With some of the problems with the new 9-3, I am considering jumping to Cadillac. I have supplier discount through my company. Anyone know what kind of discount i'm looking at?
Looks like there aren't any new issues with the CTS that haven't been talked aout before. That is good news.
cadillac.com probably will wait until late Summer to update their website with '04 info.
I have 3 GM vehicles in my drive way. Maybe I will look at a G35 rather than a 2004 CTS.
I have had for 40 years ALL GM cars so they should also give a rebate.
Lets start a class action suit on GM to also give us a rebate. I dont believe this is fair or legal. Any lawyers in this group, who could give an opinion?
Lets stop buying GM cars until they give rebates to everybody and especially us who own GM vehicles.
Berry
And GM has had "customer loyalty" incentives in the recent past for Cadillac too. As we've seen this past year, various incentives come and go. You take advantage of whatever's available when you are in the market. Crying about the fact that Ford owners are getting a "conquest" rebate won't help anyone.
If this bothers you so much, write a letter (paper, not email) to GM executive management expressing your displeasure. Be professional, polite and concise (use bullet points). Make sure the chief of marketing gets a copy. You might be surprised how often this kind of feedback gets read.
Then there's the tried and true supply & demand curves. Demand is up for the CTS and the car can fetch more dollars. Combine that with some (likely) more expensive bits in the 2004 model and you could have easily predicted a price increase.
GM is doing this knowing there might be some downside. I remember when my dealer told me that half their CTS buyers got the base model and wanted to be out the door paying no more than $32K. The price increases that have come down the pike in the last year don't help that equation. But they think the demand is still high enough to support it.
Gm should always have customer loyality on GM cars.
You were talking about if you had a Cadillac you could get a customer loyality rebate.
I have Olds, Buick and Pontiac now. Earlier I had a Cadillac.
Unless you can say something positive, dont answer my comments.
berry
I think the fact that 0% financing has evaporated on the 2003 CTSs (but not on other models), tells alot about their popularity. As you say, GM wants to make money and move cars out the door. The market will reflect that, and since the CTS is doing so well, the prices will rise. I still recommend buying one now, if you can. However, if you can afford the cost difference and dealing with Cadillac's new Option packaging, waiting for an '04 3.6L V6 might be an excellent idea too. It's all up to you, but in any case I know you'll love that new CTS as much as we do!
Bring your new CTS out and we'll discuss any ideas or tips you may have. For those who are just thinking about buying one, come by and check them out. Talk to real owners. I have 25 new 2003 CTS brochures to pass out the the first 25 persons to attend.
The Del Taco/Pep Boys lot is located on the southwest corner of La Tijera and Manchester, in Westchester, CA (Los Angeles). Just 1.5 miles west of the 405 Freeway, and just a minute drive north of LAX. Even if you live in the San Fernando Valley (BingoMan?) or Orange County, we hope you can make it!
We want to emphasize that we want owners and non-owners to attend. Plan on eating with us at Del Taco. They are nice enough to let us use their parking lot.
Email me if you are coming at Jerry@laccc.com . -Jerry:>)
Here is the direct link to the vehicle search
Choose "CTS"
http://www.donmasseycadillac.com/frameset2.asp?LINK=NewCars&M- - AIN=new_vehicle_search
cjs2002,
there is a '04 for 32.5K with the 3.6L.
think you cadillac dealer is messing with you. Might not want to do business with them.
I can afford either of these vehicles and had a interest in acquiring one. But when the price reaches 50 large there are a number of nice alternatives. Local dealer tells me they hope people who can't quite swing the cost of a CTSV at $50k will "settle" for a 3.6 CTS at $40k. But they might also "settle" for another brand, maybe not quite as nice for a whole lot less or pay a few more bucks and go higher up the food chain.
Good luck on the meeting tomorrow. Hope its well attended.
Can't choose the GTO because that is a coupe.
Berrycherry, are you being serious? You can't post a bunch of strident comments, ask for an opinion and then take exception when somebody disagrees. Sevenfeet0 was quicker to the draw, but I would have basically said what he said. GM has loyalty incentives (including some nice ones for Olds owners --at least at the time I was shopping for my CTS) and conquest incentives, and they are meant to accomplish different things. Do you want to file suit every time Sports Illustrated offers a free mini-football to "new subscribers only" or DirecTV offers below cost equipment and free installations to "first time customers only"? I agree that rewarding customer loyalty is a good thing, and if you put a high premium on it, fine, take your business to where you feel it is most appreciated. But spare me the overly dramatic indignation and the call for a class action suit or live with some negative responses if you insist on posting on a public forum.
No, I don't work for GM. And I'm a lawyer, albeit not a litigator, so no complaining that my response isn't welcome either.
http://www.buickwe4.com/CTS/DSC00599.jpg
http://www.buickwe4.com/CTS/DSC00600.jpg
http://www.buickwe4.com/CTS/DSC00601.jpg
http://www.buickwe4.com/CTS/DSC00602.jpg
http://www.buickwe4.com/CTS/DSC00603.jpg
http://www.buickwe4.com/CTS/DSC00604.jpg
This was posted on another board I am on. It's a CTS with a turbo Buick engine in it.
Final result: 11.62@120.92.
Yeah, baby.
Let's be honest: ALL of these high-end Luxury Autos are EXPEN$IVE. There's no getting around it. I hate the comparison to the foreign makes. Those so-called "competitors with lower prices" just don't have all the high tech stuff a Caddy has. Do they have a Driver's Information Center with over 30 individual driver programmable features? Like radio, seat, mirror and temperature settings for two drivers? Does it have Onstar (a marvel in itself) or a NAV system you can download your email or stock information to? Can the NAV system read HTML files? Do they have an equivalent to Stabiltrak 2.0? Not likely. I could go on and on about all the techie stuff this car has (that's why the Owner's Manual is a must read on the CTS). You pay alot for this miracle of engineering. It's not just about the cool engine or looks, it's also about the technology included in the package. And the CTS has alot built into even the standard base $30,000 model.
Too be up front about it, I could barely afford to buy our 2003 CTS. Luckily I love this model, because if I had wanted a DHS, DTS, STS, SLS, Escalade or Escalade EXT I'd be totally out of luck. A $50,000 to $70,000 car is just out of my league. Not to mention the 8.25% sales tax here in California and the high annual License Tax Fees (thank you Mr. Davis).
Here in L.A. I'm continually amazed at the $70,000 plus cars I see running around. How people afford them is beyond me. How Mercedes, BMW or Lexus can charge $90,000 for a car or SUV is amazing. So worrying about the CTS at $35,000 - $40,000 seems to be a moot point in the big picture. And a 400 HP low production version for $50,000? Either you can afford it, or not. If not just go buy something else, or buy a used one next year. For me I won't buy anything less than an American designed car and luckily the new CTS fits the bill. Yes, my payments may be "breath taking" to some, but so is the car.
"Two models are initially available: Mercedes CLK320 and CLK500. We expect them to retail between $43,500 and $54,500."
"Retail prices for sedans: BMW 540i ($54,545)."
These are equally priced competitors to the CTS? Hmmm.... :>)
Your post was about a 50K CTS-V. And it was your feeling that the price of admission was too high.
I will ask the question again. Name 1 sedan that has the performance of the CTS-V that is within 10K of it's MSRP.
The 540i cost 5K more and has a 100hp less.
The CTS-V will have 400hp, there is nothing in the under 50K that will have that kind of performance.
There is simply nothing available now or in the pipeline for the next 2 years that will do what the CTS-V will do at the under 50K price point.
You are writing the check so I can't speak to whether the CTS is up your expectations. It is certainly different in it's interior and exterior design. And it falls between the 3 series and the 5 series which makes a direct comparison almost impossible.
The objective numbers tell me that the 400 hp 3850 lb car will have a power to weight ratio of 9.6.
That virtually guarantees a sub 5 second 0-60 time.
Sorry if I am being defensive, but GM has always offered a lot of bang for the buck in their performance cars. If you want a different feel then BMW or Mercedes may be the way to go.
If you choose a Audi, BMW, Jaguar or Mercedes in the 50K range you will just have to accept that it will be slower.
Fully loaded '04 CTS has gone up quite a bit.
CTS is priced like 3 series but closer in size to
5 series.
I think 5 series has better front legroom(I am 6'7").
Cadillac dealers have some serious spending to do on their facilities and staff.
The best thing about the CTS is that it has made Cadillac cool again.
I predict there will be a healthy blackmarket in CTS xenon headlights the way there is with the Acura TL's being liberated and installed in Accords.
REBATES berrycherry: I know this isn't "positive" but I disagree with your opinion that GM shoud be required to give a loyalty discount to all former GM customers. SHOULD GM give a loyalty discount? -Yes, IMO...but a class action lawsuit to get a few bucks off of a new car is ridiculous! Also, I don't know what you're referring to by your repeat reference to a Ford discount. I'm a former Ford driver and have driven NOTHING but Ford until recently. If you read the fine print they give a discount on all cars EXEPT anything you'd actually want to buy or that could be considered highly 'desireable' such as the SVT models, Cobra or Mach Mustang, Thunderbird, and/or Harley Davidson. Really there's no point in arguing the GM/Ford incentives since Ford hasn't made a decent 4 door sedan in YEARS and offers nothing currently that could even come close to competing with the CTS. If you're unhappy with GMs pricing structure feel free to buy a Taurus!
PRICING ctsjerry: I couldn't agree more with your comments on pricing. My wife and I tend to be on the bleeding edge when it comes to buying/accepting new products and designs as we were when buying the CTS. I remember the naysayers who predicted poor resale value for the CTS and said that it was a 'dated' look. It seems that used CTS's are holding their value fine and that the design is becoming MORE popular as other manufacturers try and copy the look. Popularity is increasing and price follows. I only hope I'll be able to afford the V series when it comes time to trade my CTS in on a new model.
SADDENING cjs2002: I don't know what part of the country you live in, but here on the West Coast there are plenty of base model/base model w/auto CTS's on the lots. Don't give up and buy a G35 yet!
OPTIONS wwhite2: Of course you're happy with the option packages since you HAVE every option! I'd be happy if black was the only color option since that's the one I chose but that doesn't mean that others wouldn't like more choices. My biggest gripe is not so much the option and pricing structure but the fact Cadillac is trying to go "upscale" with the entire line yet I have a manual seat positioning bar that sticks out 3" on the passenger side, no homelink garage door opener, and no compass on my base model CTS...these basic luxuries come standard on many 'lesser' (and less expensive) cars.
WHEELS: The design of both 16" and 17" wheels is great but I like neither. IMO they are both undersized...give us 18" wheels on the CTS!!!!
XENON HEADLIGHTS: I'm glad I didn't get this option since the stock lights are PLENTY bright. Those lamp washers on the Xenon package sure look cool though!
My '01 Impala has dropped over 50% in 2 years.
That is just plain scary.
Those '91 caddies are quite popular with a lot of people.
Any color, interior color, engine, option, radio, headlights, etc. should be available. It is frustrating, but I guess the CTS's Manufacturing process, as advanced as it is, still isn't up to that. It will happen in a few years I'm sure.
But as long as GM and other manufacturers can sell all the cars they want to, there's not much incentive to change. But seriously, I do think GM and others are working on that possibility.
Part of it probably is the "Just In Time" philosophy of Manufacturing that is so fashionable these days. The idea is for a Manufacturer NOT to have warehouses full of parts, thus saving storage costs. That amounts to saving alot of money for the Manufacturer. If everyone could custom order their cars and trucks right down to the last detail, that would require ALL parts to be available at any moment. You can see how this wouldn't work with the "Just In Time" system unless everything worked PERFECTLY. It never does. The current system lets them plan ahead a bit, so they can project so many Luxury Sport cars with all their goodies, so many Standard Base cars with their equipment, etc.
Good Luck in your search of CTS.
If you add the bose system to the 1SB it's only $6,510 + base price, mine was $5,570 + the base. A difference of $940. You have to consider that they added a larger engine heated seats, and maybe a few other things. So IMO, the price really hasn't increased that much.
Yes, they stuck options in the 1SB that I wouldn't normally consider, but if you look at the cost of those as a single item in the 03 options list, it's still about the same.
When assessing your ability to afford, remember a simple rule of thumb on 60 month financing. It will only cost you $18.40/$1,000 added to the total per month @ 3.9%. So 6K in options will only cost you $110/mo, and even less @ 0% financing (and it's on again for the 03 CTS).
I waste at least $110/mo easily (about $3.5/day) on a regular bases, without even realizing it. So my point is, that you can probably afford more than you realize, if you take a closer look.
thebug...
If I get the 1SB at $5235 and the PDX Sport Package that is $1875.
$7110 in options!
And I still haven't included the $645 for the xenon headlights.
Almost $8000 in options!
The invoice that edmunds and kbb show does not.