Unfortunatly I can't get a CTS any more... at least not the 04... and the 03 are quickly disapearing... I went up to the dealorship and discoverd that the base price of an 04 with the Auto is 34-35K because the Auto and 3.6 engine are grouped into an option package which includes some other things... (which I don't want) but the price of that package is 4800.. so I unfortunatly I will be forced to change to my tied choice with the CTS which is the G35... oh well.... keep me updated as to any changes ya'll may find out
Does your dealer actually have any on the lot? I think he is mistaken. Just reread the kbb.com price list and this is what it says:
If you order the 1SB package the 3.6L VVT automatically comes with it. The 1SB has a MSRP of $5235. The invoice is $4449. maybe this is where you got the $4800 price from. MSRP on the base car plus the 1SB would be $36,070!!!
But the 3.6L VVT engine is clearly available on the base car as a stand alone option. It is $1700 and the 5 spd auto is included in that price.
I would print out the kbb or edmund's report and take it to him or go to another dealer.
Looks like a big misunderstanding to me.
You can order the base car, get the V6 3.6L and no other options and have a MSRP of $32535!
I dont have any problem with how the option packages are aligned .I have every option except the auto transmission .I am sure Cadillac has done surveys about option packages and also arrange them to make the best profit( thats why they are in business ) I dont know if an a la carte option choices are viable with a car that has a 50k/yr production rate ,like the are with the HIGH production f series ford . Then again with 50K being sold this year there seems to be MANY buyers that are happy with the option packages and there will always some that never will .
I think the 17" wheel compliment the car while the the 16" look to old fogey
I just signed up for the 24 hr test drive. The car won't be available until Tuesday but the dealer asked me if I would be interested for next weekend. If I take it Saturday I'll have it the entire weekend. I think they only have one car assigned to the program and I think it's a garnet red w/ lux sport and a roof. I'm looking forward to it.
New poster to this group .. took delivery of my 2003 CTS Lux/Sport on March 15, 2002, ordered on spec before I actually saw one in the flesh ... was part of my dealer's initial allocation of 4 vehicles. Absolutely LLLOOOOOOVVE this car's handling, though share many critics' view that it could easily handle way more HP. I swear the G35 engineers got a sneak peek, softened the lines and added 40 horses just to get the leg up .. I like the CTS sharp angles better. Bring on the V-Series!!
1st year problems ... clock out of sync (replaced cluster ... bought me nearly 500 miles since they had to set the new one manually prior to shipping to the dealer) ... leaky license bezel seal (replaced/resealed ... no problems since) ... it just developed the driver side floor puddle .. they replaced both door seals and the cowl seal .. I mentioned the TSB on the AC problem, they said that one affected the psgr side only ... we'll see ... the foam's still wet under the carpet (i think they should have replaced it ... if it starts to smell I'll take it back in).
I have the Sterling Silver, with the now discontinued "Dark Pewter" (dark gray)interior ... I like it much better than the "Ebony" (flat black) ... really complements the exterior colour. Chose the autobox due to the morning stop'n'go, but use Sport mode quite a bit just for fun .. used the tranny "reset" tip from this board recently ... not sure if it made a difference. Xenon headlights are great (not as blue as Audi/BMW, but vertical stack is impressive). Don't like the yellow DRL's, makes the car look heavy ... would prefer the low or hi-beams at lower intensity. I tend to use the low beams except in bright sunlight.
Notice that the 17" mirror polish aluminum wheels are now a pricy option ("bright finish" 17's are the base wheels on the Sport for the remaining 2003's).. these were the only available wheels on the original CTS Sport.
Looks like GM reads the reviews .. late '03 and 2004 changes pretty much in line with major nags:
- temp gauge instead of analog clock (late '03) - 3.6L with 35 extra HP ('04) - lumbar support ('04)
Don't give up too easily. Go to Cadillac.com and spend some time under the "Build Your Own" and "Search Inventory" options. Find nearby (and not so nearby dealers) and search their inventories. Find a car that you like and contact the dealer to find out what their true best price/deal is. Don't give up because of what one salesman at one dealer may have told you or because of what you may have calculated as the price (perhaps based on incorrect information).
Continuing my tradition of giving unsolicited advice: Never settle for your second choice if you can afford your first choice. If you thought you were tied between the CTS and the G35 and are sad because you think you can't get a CTS, you've just admitted that the CTS really was your first choice. My gut tells me that if you don't buy a CTS, every time you pass one in whatever else you buy, you'll regret settling for something else.
No matter whether we have to really stretch our budget to buy one of these cars or whether we can pay cash for it with our pocket change, we are talking about too much money to settle for second choices.
The car I test drove was probably the Dark Pewter interior. In any case my wife didn't like it, and wouldn't agree to the purchase until she saw the light neutral.
And yes, I took my 24 hour test drive in February of 2002 in a car which was on loan from the factory. Rydell also gave me a 24 hour test drive with my '97 Catera. I think Rydell may have been the originator of the 24 hour test drive idea, and GM picked it up because it proved so successful to Rydell. By the way I understand that Rydell owns some very successful GM dealerships up north in Wisconsin or Minnesota. They were specifically asked by GM to take over most of the GM dealerships in the Van Nuys area with the exception of Casa de Cadillac, so they got the Northridge Cadillac agency instead.
2004 base CTS with the new 3.6 and auto is $32535. The local dealer has a couple in stock like this. Figure out how much you can spend on a monthly payment. I would guess that a CTS can be had for the same or less payment as a G35. I know you can get 3.9 for 60 months on the 03 CTS and I'm sure that in a couple of months the 04s will have similar financing. I would guess financing a G35 would come with higher rates? Also, there is a $1000 conquest rebate if you get a CTS and own or lease a non GM vehicle. Do you qualify for any GM discount? That would really help.
Just looking right now but are there any interesting comments about the new 04 model? I'm driving a Saab right now and will be coming up on the end of my smart buy next year. With some of the problems with the new 9-3, I am considering jumping to Cadillac. I have supplier discount through my company. Anyone know what kind of discount i'm looking at?
I have a Ford as well and qualify for the rebate. I do not know all of the conditions, but was told about it yesterday when talking to the salesperson.
I believe the conquest rebate is basically an incentive. (Aren't their loyalty discounts for GM customers?) You'll likely qualify no matter what you have.
GM should be punished that they do not have a rebate for GM vehicles but if I had a Ford it would have a rebate.
I have 3 GM vehicles in my drive way. Maybe I will look at a G35 rather than a 2004 CTS.
I have had for 40 years ALL GM cars so they should also give a rebate.
Lets start a class action suit on GM to also give us a rebate. I dont believe this is fair or legal. Any lawyers in this group, who could give an opinion?
Lets stop buying GM cars until they give rebates to everybody and especially us who own GM vehicles.
What did I tell you folks earlier? The 2003 is an "Introductory Offer" from Cadillac. The price is going up from here. Those of you who can barely afford a 2003, will find the 2004 and 2005 completely out of reach. Unless you discover the cure for Cancer or get a big inheritance, I suggest you find a 2003 CTS and buy it. Even if it's a bit more than you can afford, get the best optioned car you can find. You'll love it! I NEVER thought I like the Heated Seats, HID Xenon lights or the 6 CD in dash Bose System. Now I can't imagine being without them. Signed, The Old Man In The Cave (Jerry)
Why does this bother you so much? GM is free to do whatever incentives that their marketing guys think is a good idea. It's nothing new. Some things work and some things don't. A lawsuit is not going to help...if anything, it's completely frivilous.
And GM has had "customer loyalty" incentives in the recent past for Cadillac too. As we've seen this past year, various incentives come and go. You take advantage of whatever's available when you are in the market. Crying about the fact that Ford owners are getting a "conquest" rebate won't help anyone.
If this bothers you so much, write a letter (paper, not email) to GM executive management expressing your displeasure. Be professional, polite and concise (use bullet points). Make sure the chief of marketing gets a copy. You might be surprised how often this kind of feedback gets read.
I have to disagree. Every single product at GM get re-evaluated for its ROI at least once a year and quite often more than that. In an economy where incentives cut brutally from the bottom line, automakers have to find ways to make money somehow. If they aren't going to make money at GMAC, then they have to make up for it somewhere. That means raising prices.
Then there's the tried and true supply & demand curves. Demand is up for the CTS and the car can fetch more dollars. Combine that with some (likely) more expensive bits in the 2004 model and you could have easily predicted a price increase.
GM is doing this knowing there might be some downside. I remember when my dealer told me that half their CTS buyers got the base model and wanted to be out the door paying no more than $32K. The price increases that have come down the pike in the last year don't help that equation. But they think the demand is still high enough to support it.
You say you disagree with me, but I don't really think you do. It's pretty obvious that the 2003 CTS was a gamble for GM & Cadillac that has paid off well. They have sold more than they ever expected. The price is going up. According to posters at this site, Dealer supplies of '03 models are drying up. They are upset about the higher costs and more restrictive packaging options. As time goes on, the bigger engines like the 3.6L and 400 HP V8 will command even higher prices. Especially if the popularity of the CTS continues to grow, and I predict it will. The soon-to-be-boiling interest in the SRX & XLR will ultimately drive up the value of the lower priced CTSs, because of their similar styling. You can take that to the Bank.
I think the fact that 0% financing has evaporated on the 2003 CTSs (but not on other models), tells alot about their popularity. As you say, GM wants to make money and move cars out the door. The market will reflect that, and since the CTS is doing so well, the prices will rise. I still recommend buying one now, if you can. However, if you can afford the cost difference and dealing with Cadillac's new Option packaging, waiting for an '04 3.6L V6 might be an excellent idea too. It's all up to you, but in any case I know you'll love that new CTS as much as we do!
We hope some of you will join us for this informal gathering TOMORROW, June 21st. It's just for fun. Organized by car enthusiasts like you.
Bring your new CTS out and we'll discuss any ideas or tips you may have. For those who are just thinking about buying one, come by and check them out. Talk to real owners. I have 25 new 2003 CTS brochures to pass out the the first 25 persons to attend.
The Del Taco/Pep Boys lot is located on the southwest corner of La Tijera and Manchester, in Westchester, CA (Los Angeles). Just 1.5 miles west of the 405 Freeway, and just a minute drive north of LAX. Even if you live in the San Fernando Valley (BingoMan?) or Orange County, we hope you can make it!
We want to emphasize that we want owners and non-owners to attend. Plan on eating with us at Del Taco. They are nice enough to let us use their parking lot.
Email me if you are coming at Jerry@laccc.com . -Jerry:>)
As I have posted before, I think Cadillac marketing people have been smoking something out of a Mexican garden. Projected prices of $50k for a CTSV and SRX (with V8 & AWD), $10K luxo-sport package on CTS? In this economy? I don't think too many in the G35 crowd will want to spend an extra $15k no matter how nice it is. And I seriously doubt the BMW-MBZ fanatics will switch over, for resale value alone. Look, I think they are fine vehicles and I would expect a reasonable increase in prices. It would also help if their option packages weren't insanely bundled. But instead of trying to get market share over a couple of years and get brand loyalty, they have decided to "force" these vehicles into a niche market they want. More power to them but the take it or leave it attitude of the dealers here in Southern California remind me of Ford dealers a few years ago. People left it. Cadillac also wants to change the demographics of their buyers to less than the current 58 years old. This attitude isn't going to get them there.
I can afford either of these vehicles and had a interest in acquiring one. But when the price reaches 50 large there are a number of nice alternatives. Local dealer tells me they hope people who can't quite swing the cost of a CTSV at $50k will "settle" for a 3.6 CTS at $40k. But they might also "settle" for another brand, maybe not quite as nice for a whole lot less or pay a few more bucks and go higher up the food chain.
Good luck on the meeting tomorrow. Hope its well attended.
"Unless you can say something positive, dont answer my comments."
Berrycherry, are you being serious? You can't post a bunch of strident comments, ask for an opinion and then take exception when somebody disagrees. Sevenfeet0 was quicker to the draw, but I would have basically said what he said. GM has loyalty incentives (including some nice ones for Olds owners --at least at the time I was shopping for my CTS) and conquest incentives, and they are meant to accomplish different things. Do you want to file suit every time Sports Illustrated offers a free mini-football to "new subscribers only" or DirecTV offers below cost equipment and free installations to "first time customers only"? I agree that rewarding customer loyalty is a good thing, and if you put a high premium on it, fine, take your business to where you feel it is most appreciated. But spare me the overly dramatic indignation and the call for a class action suit or live with some negative responses if you insist on posting on a public forum.
No, I don't work for GM. And I'm a lawyer, albeit not a litigator, so no complaining that my response isn't welcome either.
Remembering that the CTSV is not here yet and won't be until February 2004 so we don't really know that much about it (pricing wise), there are the following cars that are here now and well within $10K difference - some cheaper. Actually with the way Cadillac bundles its options I wouldn't be surprised if a lot more expensive performance cars won't be cheaper out the door. So here is the list: MBZ E500, BMW 540i, Audi A6/S6, Jaguar RS and X, possibly the Infinity M45 and although not a sedan my favorite the MBZ CLK 500. I am not knocking the CTS, I rather like it. My point is that there are lots of choices at that price range for Cadillac to cop an attitude.
Yes, the CTS is "expensive", and looks like it will be getting more expensive. That's why I call the one I got an "Introductory Offer" from Cadillac. Thank you, GM! I got it while I could afford it. Zero percent interest, no down, 90 days to start paying, PLUS my company's "Friends & Family" discount was just too good to pass up.
Let's be honest: ALL of these high-end Luxury Autos are EXPEN$IVE. There's no getting around it. I hate the comparison to the foreign makes. Those so-called "competitors with lower prices" just don't have all the high tech stuff a Caddy has. Do they have a Driver's Information Center with over 30 individual driver programmable features? Like radio, seat, mirror and temperature settings for two drivers? Does it have Onstar (a marvel in itself) or a NAV system you can download your email or stock information to? Can the NAV system read HTML files? Do they have an equivalent to Stabiltrak 2.0? Not likely. I could go on and on about all the techie stuff this car has (that's why the Owner's Manual is a must read on the CTS). You pay alot for this miracle of engineering. It's not just about the cool engine or looks, it's also about the technology included in the package. And the CTS has alot built into even the standard base $30,000 model.
Too be up front about it, I could barely afford to buy our 2003 CTS. Luckily I love this model, because if I had wanted a DHS, DTS, STS, SLS, Escalade or Escalade EXT I'd be totally out of luck. A $50,000 to $70,000 car is just out of my league. Not to mention the 8.25% sales tax here in California and the high annual License Tax Fees (thank you Mr. Davis).
Here in L.A. I'm continually amazed at the $70,000 plus cars I see running around. How people afford them is beyond me. How Mercedes, BMW or Lexus can charge $90,000 for a car or SUV is amazing. So worrying about the CTS at $35,000 - $40,000 seems to be a moot point in the big picture. And a 400 HP low production version for $50,000? Either you can afford it, or not. If not just go buy something else, or buy a used one next year. For me I won't buy anything less than an American designed car and luckily the new CTS fits the bill. Yes, my payments may be "breath taking" to some, but so is the car.
Your post was about a 50K CTS-V. And it was your feeling that the price of admission was too high.
I will ask the question again. Name 1 sedan that has the performance of the CTS-V that is within 10K of it's MSRP.
The 540i cost 5K more and has a 100hp less.
The CTS-V will have 400hp, there is nothing in the under 50K that will have that kind of performance.
There is simply nothing available now or in the pipeline for the next 2 years that will do what the CTS-V will do at the under 50K price point.
You are writing the check so I can't speak to whether the CTS is up your expectations. It is certainly different in it's interior and exterior design. And it falls between the 3 series and the 5 series which makes a direct comparison almost impossible.
The objective numbers tell me that the 400 hp 3850 lb car will have a power to weight ratio of 9.6. That virtually guarantees a sub 5 second 0-60 time.
Sorry if I am being defensive, but GM has always offered a lot of bang for the buck in their performance cars. If you want a different feel then BMW or Mercedes may be the way to go. If you choose a Audi, BMW, Jaguar or Mercedes in the 50K range you will just have to accept that it will be slower.
Since the projected price of the CTSV is $50k and the challenge was to find competing sedans within $10k, the CLK500 and BMW 540i are well within that range. I was comparing similar cars with similar options thus V8 to V8 etc. Using the Edmunds pricing option getting the 2004 CTS with 3.6 engine and the other high end options that were bragged about above (Navigation etc) comes out to $43.5K (without taxes and docs which are high here in California). For a 6 cylinder, an exceptional 6 cylinder, but still a 6. And I was speaking of the CTSV, which looks like it will be a fine car. Once again my point wasn't to knock the CTS, it was the attitude of Cadillac and its dealers, at least here in So. Cal. What part of attitude adjustment don't you get? The CTS may be hot now but it may not always be that way (sic transit gloria mundae). So treat potential customers with a little respect and can the take it or leave it attitude. I can afford any of the cars listed in my first post. I wanted to replace my current German performance car with an American made car. But $50K with an attitude leaves me headed elsewhere. And the residual value of the BMW and CLK are higher than the CTS which I didn't even factor in. Again, the CTS is a fine car, the CTSV may be an exceptional car, but probably not worth my $50K. Others may disagree and want to buy two. Its not about the car as much as the attitude.
CLOCK rob35cts: Thanks for the info on the clock fix. I was at my dealers service dept today and they were going to look into any TSBs on the clock. According to the service guy Cadillac's "fix" for the clock was to stick in a temp gauge in place of the clock in new models...he said they were never able to get many of the clocks to sync up properly. That doesn't do me very much good unless they are willing to replace my instrument cluser like they did on yours or unless I trade my CTS in on a 2004. Regardless, I'll talk to them more next week when I take my car in to get a couple of annoying squeaks fixed.
REBATES berrycherry: I know this isn't "positive" but I disagree with your opinion that GM shoud be required to give a loyalty discount to all former GM customers. SHOULD GM give a loyalty discount? -Yes, IMO...but a class action lawsuit to get a few bucks off of a new car is ridiculous! Also, I don't know what you're referring to by your repeat reference to a Ford discount. I'm a former Ford driver and have driven NOTHING but Ford until recently. If you read the fine print they give a discount on all cars EXEPT anything you'd actually want to buy or that could be considered highly 'desireable' such as the SVT models, Cobra or Mach Mustang, Thunderbird, and/or Harley Davidson. Really there's no point in arguing the GM/Ford incentives since Ford hasn't made a decent 4 door sedan in YEARS and offers nothing currently that could even come close to competing with the CTS. If you're unhappy with GMs pricing structure feel free to buy a Taurus!
PRICING ctsjerry: I couldn't agree more with your comments on pricing. My wife and I tend to be on the bleeding edge when it comes to buying/accepting new products and designs as we were when buying the CTS. I remember the naysayers who predicted poor resale value for the CTS and said that it was a 'dated' look. It seems that used CTS's are holding their value fine and that the design is becoming MORE popular as other manufacturers try and copy the look. Popularity is increasing and price follows. I only hope I'll be able to afford the V series when it comes time to trade my CTS in on a new model.
SADDENING cjs2002: I don't know what part of the country you live in, but here on the West Coast there are plenty of base model/base model w/auto CTS's on the lots. Don't give up and buy a G35 yet!
OPTIONS wwhite2: Of course you're happy with the option packages since you HAVE every option! I'd be happy if black was the only color option since that's the one I chose but that doesn't mean that others wouldn't like more choices. My biggest gripe is not so much the option and pricing structure but the fact Cadillac is trying to go "upscale" with the entire line yet I have a manual seat positioning bar that sticks out 3" on the passenger side, no homelink garage door opener, and no compass on my base model CTS...these basic luxuries come standard on many 'lesser' (and less expensive) cars.
WHEELS: The design of both 16" and 17" wheels is great but I like neither. IMO they are both undersized...give us 18" wheels on the CTS!!!!
XENON HEADLIGHTS: I'm glad I didn't get this option since the stock lights are PLENTY bright. Those lamp washers on the Xenon package sure look cool though!
I think the most important thing gM needs to work on is the resale value. If they were to price the vehicles correctly out of the box there would be no need for $3-4000 incentives. My '01 Impala has dropped over 50% in 2 years. That is just plain scary.
Hi b4z- I need to check my Sticker. I think I paid $450 for my HID lights, but I'm not sure (Senior Moment). I do recall my BMW buddy told me the price I was paying was a steal compared to BMW HIDs. And to ADD them to a BMW is thousands of dollars. At least that's what he said, and I got them. They are really nice. No shadow effect like some folks say about the standard lights. As I've posted before, the HIDs are a product of Hughes Electronics. The light cuts off horizontally at about rear trunk level on the cars ahead of me. Bright light below, completely dark above. Doesn't blind oncoming drivers. Very cool!
I think it's hard for a Manufacturer to control resale value, as so many different factors go into that. Certain cars do well, and others just don't. It's the Free Marketplace in action. The only control they have is QUALITY. I think CTS excells in that arena, so it will hold it's value a bit more than the average car. Like most new cars & trucks, they still lose about $3000-$4000 just driving off the lot. Man was I upset when I watched over the years my cherry 1991 Caddy drop from $32,000 to $1500 when I ultimately bought my CTS! Thank goodness, I was able to sell it privately for $5000 (Another reason not to trade in your old car thru the Dealer!).
I agree with you guys that in this day and age, it seems you should be able to custom order a car EXACTLY as you want (Cadillac are you listening?)
Any color, interior color, engine, option, radio, headlights, etc. should be available. It is frustrating, but I guess the CTS's Manufacturing process, as advanced as it is, still isn't up to that. It will happen in a few years I'm sure.
But as long as GM and other manufacturers can sell all the cars they want to, there's not much incentive to change. But seriously, I do think GM and others are working on that possibility.
Part of it probably is the "Just In Time" philosophy of Manufacturing that is so fashionable these days. The idea is for a Manufacturer NOT to have warehouses full of parts, thus saving storage costs. That amounts to saving alot of money for the Manufacturer. If everyone could custom order their cars and trucks right down to the last detail, that would require ALL parts to be available at any moment. You can see how this wouldn't work with the "Just In Time" system unless everything worked PERFECTLY. It never does. The current system lets them plan ahead a bit, so they can project so many Luxury Sport cars with all their goodies, so many Standard Base cars with their equipment, etc.
thanks.... I'll make this short cause the computers messin up... or the web site is... either way Its been heck tryin to post .... thanks for your comments...I'll check it all out...and go back to the dealorship... we'll see who has the last lauph... I'll keep you informed ... thanx to all who helped
The website seems to be messsing up in a major way. Just tried to post and said I needed to log in. Came back a few minutes later and everything was fine.
The clear plastic around the license surround filled with water, accumulating more every time I went through an autowash. Had 1/2" of water along the bottom edge and constant condensation above. GM replaced the unit and must have fixed the problem with the seals .. colleague of mine has CTS delivered within 2 weeks of mine, same problem.
In your post 3556, "Wish I could afford a CTS with most of the options". I purchased my 03 and got the lux package @ $2,300, auto trans @ $1,200, bose system @ $1,275, and polished wheels @ $795, didn't get the sunroof, (I don't do sunroofs), total options $5,570. Then they knocked about 2K off. So essentially, I got some of the options free. The 1SB has all that (less the bose system), and then some. The 1SB (one would have to admit) has quite a few options.
If you add the bose system to the 1SB it's only $6,510 + base price, mine was $5,570 + the base. A difference of $940. You have to consider that they added a larger engine heated seats, and maybe a few other things. So IMO, the price really hasn't increased that much.
Yes, they stuck options in the 1SB that I wouldn't normally consider, but if you look at the cost of those as a single item in the 03 options list, it's still about the same.
When assessing your ability to afford, remember a simple rule of thumb on 60 month financing. It will only cost you $18.40/$1,000 added to the total per month @ 3.9%. So 6K in options will only cost you $110/mo, and even less @ 0% financing (and it's on again for the 03 CTS).
I waste at least $110/mo easily (about $3.5/day) on a regular bases, without even realizing it. So my point is, that you can probably afford more than you realize, if you take a closer look.
To a degree, I agree with wulf007 on Caddy dealer attitudes (at least the one I bought from.) First, the story and numbers: Only had 3 days left before the 0% "Zero to 60" financing went away on the CTS. (I was after that deal.) Only found 1 car anywhere's close that met my minimums. So, bought a 2003 CTS with luxury pkg, auto tranny, sliding sun roof, bright finish wheels, Bose (no navigation) 6-cd system. Both Kelly and Edmunds had the MSRP sticker price on the button..$37,465. (Didn't care about the sun roof or bright finish wheels, but that's what it had.) So, we started the price dickering. One of the first things out of the salesman's mouth was, "Afterall, you ARE buying a Cadillac!" My reply, "C ya", and I headed for the door. His tone changed dramatically and we continued with "the process". In the end, I settled on a purchase price of $35,761 which was like $1,700 over "dealer cost" according to KBB and Edmunds. Then I got the song and dance about how what they showed as dealer cost wasn't right (interesting how those numbers are always dead on when it's to "their" benefit and "all wrong" when they favor the buyer.) Anyways, after all was said and done and my pitiful trade in allowance was deducted and tax and license added in, my final financed price was $37,082. In the end, I got the 0% interest, monthly payment was way under my affordable maximum and even under my "personal comfort level maximum" and I got the car I wanted. So, overall, I was ok with the deal. But that "you are buying a Cadillac" comment and the ever pervasive (although unsaid) "if you don't buy it, someone else will" attitude did put me off. The fact that I was still a good $1,000-$1,200 over dealer cost (using there numbers) gripes me to no end even now. They made it plain they weren't willing to deal below that. (But, I accepted it, and it only changed my payment like $18 a month. That was the justification I put to myself.) However, I compare that to when I bought my 2000 Impala and paid, if I recall right, $300 over dealer cost. They were damn near kissing my feet over that deal. It was just a whole different experience. Now, I can't globally say all Cadillac dealers are like that. And I'm sure there are plenty of you who paid less for the exact same car I did (and I'll bet some who paid more.) In the end, no matter what the numbers are, the final question is: Are you happy with the deal you got? My answer is, "Yes". There are parts of it that irked me, but overall, I'm pleasantly OK with it.
When I bought my Impala I paid $98 over invoice and they bent over backwards to get me the lowest interest rate they could find.
If I get the 1SB at $5235 and the PDX Sport Package that is $1875. $7110 in options! And I still haven't included the $645 for the xenon headlights. Almost $8000 in options!
Comments
Some of it does not look good.
They have also changed pricing on the 17" wheels on the different options.
First off: It looks like you have to get the 1SB and the PDX Sport Package to get the Xenon headlights. Ugggh.
You have to order the 1SB to get the split folding seats. Can't get it on the base.
If you want the 17" painted wheels then they are:
1SA = $895
1SB = $345
But I think you can still get the Sport package on the base without ordering the 1SB or 1sc packages. 17" wheels come with Sport Package.
Don't understand why we can't pick and choose more.
Does your dealer actually have any on the lot?
I think he is mistaken.
Just reread the kbb.com price list and this is what it says:
If you order the 1SB package the 3.6L VVT automatically comes with it. The 1SB has a MSRP of $5235. The invoice is $4449. maybe this is where you got the $4800 price from.
MSRP on the base car plus the 1SB would be $36,070!!!
But the 3.6L VVT engine is clearly available on the base car as a stand alone option. It is $1700 and the 5 spd auto is included in that price.
I would print out the kbb or edmund's report and take it to him or go to another dealer.
Looks like a big misunderstanding to me.
You can order the base car, get the V6 3.6L and no other options and have a MSRP of $32535!
Invoice would be under 30K.
I think the 17" wheel compliment the car while the the 16" look to old fogey
1st year problems ... clock out of sync (replaced cluster ... bought me nearly 500 miles since they had to set the new one manually prior to shipping to the dealer) ... leaky license bezel seal (replaced/resealed ... no problems since) ... it just developed the driver side floor puddle .. they replaced both door seals and the cowl seal .. I mentioned the TSB on the AC problem, they said that one affected the psgr side only ... we'll see ... the foam's still wet under the carpet (i think they should have replaced it ... if it starts to smell I'll take it back in).
I have the Sterling Silver, with the now discontinued "Dark Pewter" (dark gray)interior ... I like it much better than the "Ebony" (flat black) ... really complements the exterior colour. Chose the autobox due to the morning stop'n'go, but use Sport mode quite a bit just for fun .. used the tranny "reset" tip from this board recently ... not sure if it made a difference. Xenon headlights are great (not as blue as Audi/BMW, but vertical stack is impressive). Don't like the yellow DRL's, makes the car look heavy ... would prefer the low or hi-beams at lower intensity. I tend to use the low beams except in bright sunlight.
Notice that the 17" mirror polish aluminum wheels are now a pricy option ("bright finish" 17's are the base wheels on the Sport for the remaining 2003's).. these were the only available wheels on the original CTS Sport.
Looks like GM reads the reviews .. late '03 and 2004 changes pretty much in line with major nags:
- temp gauge instead of analog clock (late '03)
- 3.6L with 35 extra HP ('04)
- lumbar support ('04)
Continuing my tradition of giving unsolicited advice: Never settle for your second choice if you can afford your first choice. If you thought you were tied between the CTS and the G35 and are sad because you think you can't get a CTS, you've just admitted that the CTS really was your first choice. My gut tells me that if you don't buy a CTS, every time you pass one in whatever else you buy, you'll regret settling for something else.
No matter whether we have to really stretch our budget to buy one of these cars or whether we can pay cash for it with our pocket change, we are talking about too much money to settle for second choices.
And yes, I took my 24 hour test drive in February of 2002 in a car which was on loan from the factory. Rydell also gave me a 24 hour test drive with my '97 Catera. I think Rydell may have been the originator of the 24 hour test drive idea, and GM picked it up because it proved so successful to Rydell. By the way I understand that Rydell owns some very successful GM dealerships up north in Wisconsin or Minnesota. They were specifically asked by GM to take over most of the GM dealerships in the Van Nuys area with the exception of Casa de Cadillac, so they got the Northridge Cadillac agency instead.
Just looking right now but are there any interesting comments about the new 04 model? I'm driving a Saab right now and will be coming up on the end of my smart buy next year. With some of the problems with the new 9-3, I am considering jumping to Cadillac. I have supplier discount through my company. Anyone know what kind of discount i'm looking at?
Looks like there aren't any new issues with the CTS that haven't been talked aout before. That is good news.
cadillac.com probably will wait until late Summer to update their website with '04 info.
I have 3 GM vehicles in my drive way. Maybe I will look at a G35 rather than a 2004 CTS.
I have had for 40 years ALL GM cars so they should also give a rebate.
Lets start a class action suit on GM to also give us a rebate. I dont believe this is fair or legal. Any lawyers in this group, who could give an opinion?
Lets stop buying GM cars until they give rebates to everybody and especially us who own GM vehicles.
Berry
And GM has had "customer loyalty" incentives in the recent past for Cadillac too. As we've seen this past year, various incentives come and go. You take advantage of whatever's available when you are in the market. Crying about the fact that Ford owners are getting a "conquest" rebate won't help anyone.
If this bothers you so much, write a letter (paper, not email) to GM executive management expressing your displeasure. Be professional, polite and concise (use bullet points). Make sure the chief of marketing gets a copy. You might be surprised how often this kind of feedback gets read.
Then there's the tried and true supply & demand curves. Demand is up for the CTS and the car can fetch more dollars. Combine that with some (likely) more expensive bits in the 2004 model and you could have easily predicted a price increase.
GM is doing this knowing there might be some downside. I remember when my dealer told me that half their CTS buyers got the base model and wanted to be out the door paying no more than $32K. The price increases that have come down the pike in the last year don't help that equation. But they think the demand is still high enough to support it.
Gm should always have customer loyality on GM cars.
You were talking about if you had a Cadillac you could get a customer loyality rebate.
I have Olds, Buick and Pontiac now. Earlier I had a Cadillac.
Unless you can say something positive, dont answer my comments.
berry
I think the fact that 0% financing has evaporated on the 2003 CTSs (but not on other models), tells alot about their popularity. As you say, GM wants to make money and move cars out the door. The market will reflect that, and since the CTS is doing so well, the prices will rise. I still recommend buying one now, if you can. However, if you can afford the cost difference and dealing with Cadillac's new Option packaging, waiting for an '04 3.6L V6 might be an excellent idea too. It's all up to you, but in any case I know you'll love that new CTS as much as we do!
Bring your new CTS out and we'll discuss any ideas or tips you may have. For those who are just thinking about buying one, come by and check them out. Talk to real owners. I have 25 new 2003 CTS brochures to pass out the the first 25 persons to attend.
The Del Taco/Pep Boys lot is located on the southwest corner of La Tijera and Manchester, in Westchester, CA (Los Angeles). Just 1.5 miles west of the 405 Freeway, and just a minute drive north of LAX. Even if you live in the San Fernando Valley (BingoMan?) or Orange County, we hope you can make it!
We want to emphasize that we want owners and non-owners to attend. Plan on eating with us at Del Taco. They are nice enough to let us use their parking lot.
Email me if you are coming at Jerry@laccc.com . -Jerry:>)
Here is the direct link to the vehicle search
Choose "CTS"
http://www.donmasseycadillac.com/frameset2.asp?LINK=NewCars&M- - AIN=new_vehicle_search
cjs2002,
there is a '04 for 32.5K with the 3.6L.
think you cadillac dealer is messing with you. Might not want to do business with them.
I can afford either of these vehicles and had a interest in acquiring one. But when the price reaches 50 large there are a number of nice alternatives. Local dealer tells me they hope people who can't quite swing the cost of a CTSV at $50k will "settle" for a 3.6 CTS at $40k. But they might also "settle" for another brand, maybe not quite as nice for a whole lot less or pay a few more bucks and go higher up the food chain.
Good luck on the meeting tomorrow. Hope its well attended.
Can't choose the GTO because that is a coupe.
Berrycherry, are you being serious? You can't post a bunch of strident comments, ask for an opinion and then take exception when somebody disagrees. Sevenfeet0 was quicker to the draw, but I would have basically said what he said. GM has loyalty incentives (including some nice ones for Olds owners --at least at the time I was shopping for my CTS) and conquest incentives, and they are meant to accomplish different things. Do you want to file suit every time Sports Illustrated offers a free mini-football to "new subscribers only" or DirecTV offers below cost equipment and free installations to "first time customers only"? I agree that rewarding customer loyalty is a good thing, and if you put a high premium on it, fine, take your business to where you feel it is most appreciated. But spare me the overly dramatic indignation and the call for a class action suit or live with some negative responses if you insist on posting on a public forum.
No, I don't work for GM. And I'm a lawyer, albeit not a litigator, so no complaining that my response isn't welcome either.
http://www.buickwe4.com/CTS/DSC00599.jpg
http://www.buickwe4.com/CTS/DSC00600.jpg
http://www.buickwe4.com/CTS/DSC00601.jpg
http://www.buickwe4.com/CTS/DSC00602.jpg
http://www.buickwe4.com/CTS/DSC00603.jpg
http://www.buickwe4.com/CTS/DSC00604.jpg
This was posted on another board I am on. It's a CTS with a turbo Buick engine in it.
Final result: 11.62@120.92.
Yeah, baby.
Let's be honest: ALL of these high-end Luxury Autos are EXPEN$IVE. There's no getting around it. I hate the comparison to the foreign makes. Those so-called "competitors with lower prices" just don't have all the high tech stuff a Caddy has. Do they have a Driver's Information Center with over 30 individual driver programmable features? Like radio, seat, mirror and temperature settings for two drivers? Does it have Onstar (a marvel in itself) or a NAV system you can download your email or stock information to? Can the NAV system read HTML files? Do they have an equivalent to Stabiltrak 2.0? Not likely. I could go on and on about all the techie stuff this car has (that's why the Owner's Manual is a must read on the CTS). You pay alot for this miracle of engineering. It's not just about the cool engine or looks, it's also about the technology included in the package. And the CTS has alot built into even the standard base $30,000 model.
Too be up front about it, I could barely afford to buy our 2003 CTS. Luckily I love this model, because if I had wanted a DHS, DTS, STS, SLS, Escalade or Escalade EXT I'd be totally out of luck. A $50,000 to $70,000 car is just out of my league. Not to mention the 8.25% sales tax here in California and the high annual License Tax Fees (thank you Mr. Davis).
Here in L.A. I'm continually amazed at the $70,000 plus cars I see running around. How people afford them is beyond me. How Mercedes, BMW or Lexus can charge $90,000 for a car or SUV is amazing. So worrying about the CTS at $35,000 - $40,000 seems to be a moot point in the big picture. And a 400 HP low production version for $50,000? Either you can afford it, or not. If not just go buy something else, or buy a used one next year. For me I won't buy anything less than an American designed car and luckily the new CTS fits the bill. Yes, my payments may be "breath taking" to some, but so is the car.
"Two models are initially available: Mercedes CLK320 and CLK500. We expect them to retail between $43,500 and $54,500."
"Retail prices for sedans: BMW 540i ($54,545)."
These are equally priced competitors to the CTS? Hmmm.... :>)
Your post was about a 50K CTS-V. And it was your feeling that the price of admission was too high.
I will ask the question again. Name 1 sedan that has the performance of the CTS-V that is within 10K of it's MSRP.
The 540i cost 5K more and has a 100hp less.
The CTS-V will have 400hp, there is nothing in the under 50K that will have that kind of performance.
There is simply nothing available now or in the pipeline for the next 2 years that will do what the CTS-V will do at the under 50K price point.
You are writing the check so I can't speak to whether the CTS is up your expectations. It is certainly different in it's interior and exterior design. And it falls between the 3 series and the 5 series which makes a direct comparison almost impossible.
The objective numbers tell me that the 400 hp 3850 lb car will have a power to weight ratio of 9.6.
That virtually guarantees a sub 5 second 0-60 time.
Sorry if I am being defensive, but GM has always offered a lot of bang for the buck in their performance cars. If you want a different feel then BMW or Mercedes may be the way to go.
If you choose a Audi, BMW, Jaguar or Mercedes in the 50K range you will just have to accept that it will be slower.
Fully loaded '04 CTS has gone up quite a bit.
CTS is priced like 3 series but closer in size to
5 series.
I think 5 series has better front legroom(I am 6'7").
Cadillac dealers have some serious spending to do on their facilities and staff.
The best thing about the CTS is that it has made Cadillac cool again.
I predict there will be a healthy blackmarket in CTS xenon headlights the way there is with the Acura TL's being liberated and installed in Accords.
REBATES berrycherry: I know this isn't "positive" but I disagree with your opinion that GM shoud be required to give a loyalty discount to all former GM customers. SHOULD GM give a loyalty discount? -Yes, IMO...but a class action lawsuit to get a few bucks off of a new car is ridiculous! Also, I don't know what you're referring to by your repeat reference to a Ford discount. I'm a former Ford driver and have driven NOTHING but Ford until recently. If you read the fine print they give a discount on all cars EXEPT anything you'd actually want to buy or that could be considered highly 'desireable' such as the SVT models, Cobra or Mach Mustang, Thunderbird, and/or Harley Davidson. Really there's no point in arguing the GM/Ford incentives since Ford hasn't made a decent 4 door sedan in YEARS and offers nothing currently that could even come close to competing with the CTS. If you're unhappy with GMs pricing structure feel free to buy a Taurus!
PRICING ctsjerry: I couldn't agree more with your comments on pricing. My wife and I tend to be on the bleeding edge when it comes to buying/accepting new products and designs as we were when buying the CTS. I remember the naysayers who predicted poor resale value for the CTS and said that it was a 'dated' look. It seems that used CTS's are holding their value fine and that the design is becoming MORE popular as other manufacturers try and copy the look. Popularity is increasing and price follows. I only hope I'll be able to afford the V series when it comes time to trade my CTS in on a new model.
SADDENING cjs2002: I don't know what part of the country you live in, but here on the West Coast there are plenty of base model/base model w/auto CTS's on the lots. Don't give up and buy a G35 yet!
OPTIONS wwhite2: Of course you're happy with the option packages since you HAVE every option! I'd be happy if black was the only color option since that's the one I chose but that doesn't mean that others wouldn't like more choices. My biggest gripe is not so much the option and pricing structure but the fact Cadillac is trying to go "upscale" with the entire line yet I have a manual seat positioning bar that sticks out 3" on the passenger side, no homelink garage door opener, and no compass on my base model CTS...these basic luxuries come standard on many 'lesser' (and less expensive) cars.
WHEELS: The design of both 16" and 17" wheels is great but I like neither. IMO they are both undersized...give us 18" wheels on the CTS!!!!
XENON HEADLIGHTS: I'm glad I didn't get this option since the stock lights are PLENTY bright. Those lamp washers on the Xenon package sure look cool though!
My '01 Impala has dropped over 50% in 2 years.
That is just plain scary.
Those '91 caddies are quite popular with a lot of people.
Any color, interior color, engine, option, radio, headlights, etc. should be available. It is frustrating, but I guess the CTS's Manufacturing process, as advanced as it is, still isn't up to that. It will happen in a few years I'm sure.
But as long as GM and other manufacturers can sell all the cars they want to, there's not much incentive to change. But seriously, I do think GM and others are working on that possibility.
Part of it probably is the "Just In Time" philosophy of Manufacturing that is so fashionable these days. The idea is for a Manufacturer NOT to have warehouses full of parts, thus saving storage costs. That amounts to saving alot of money for the Manufacturer. If everyone could custom order their cars and trucks right down to the last detail, that would require ALL parts to be available at any moment. You can see how this wouldn't work with the "Just In Time" system unless everything worked PERFECTLY. It never does. The current system lets them plan ahead a bit, so they can project so many Luxury Sport cars with all their goodies, so many Standard Base cars with their equipment, etc.
Good Luck in your search of CTS.
If you add the bose system to the 1SB it's only $6,510 + base price, mine was $5,570 + the base. A difference of $940. You have to consider that they added a larger engine heated seats, and maybe a few other things. So IMO, the price really hasn't increased that much.
Yes, they stuck options in the 1SB that I wouldn't normally consider, but if you look at the cost of those as a single item in the 03 options list, it's still about the same.
When assessing your ability to afford, remember a simple rule of thumb on 60 month financing. It will only cost you $18.40/$1,000 added to the total per month @ 3.9%. So 6K in options will only cost you $110/mo, and even less @ 0% financing (and it's on again for the 03 CTS).
I waste at least $110/mo easily (about $3.5/day) on a regular bases, without even realizing it. So my point is, that you can probably afford more than you realize, if you take a closer look.
thebug...
If I get the 1SB at $5235 and the PDX Sport Package that is $1875.
$7110 in options!
And I still haven't included the $645 for the xenon headlights.
Almost $8000 in options!
The invoice that edmunds and kbb show does not.