Cadillac CTS/CTS-V

pat · July 2003

Perhaps we all need to just lighten up a bit - that's my take at this time.

If some of us want to have a debate that bores others, well maybe the "bored" folks need to just ignore those messages.

And maybe all of us need to remember that this is just a friendly ... um, supposed to be friendly, that is ... conversation and that we don't have to take things personally.

Just my thoughts -- if any of you think I'm missing something that needs to be addressed, please email me rather than disrupt this discussion by posting here.

:-)

Carry on!

b4z · July 2003

I vote no more links to Cabriolet roofed CTSs.
And no more links to the this 4 door CTS convertible on ebay that keeps getting reposted.

berrycherry · July 2003

I was offered a certificate in May but the program would end in June, as I wanted a 2004.

It has been extended to Sept 2. See link.

http://www.gminthedriveway.com/index.html

If any body has an unused certificate send me email at raycherry1@cox.net. It would be appreciated, a present for my wife of 50 years on July 24. Thanks. We want to drive from OC, Calif to Vancouver in Aug.

berrycherry

sonjaab · July 2003

I GOT ONE BRO!

If your serious.....and gonna buy ASAP !!!
I have 2 coupons. I have given away 4 so far !

I get the GM employee/family deal and got a new
Deville last year.

Remember coupon/program is good till Sept.2 even tho my newly recieved coupons say good till June 30th. The GM folks assured me these new coupons are good till then. Gm limited them to 2 per employee/retiree at first. But they must wanna move some iron! I have had 6 so far from mom/uncles/and GM friends.

Drop me a email with name address and phone...
Will send out Imm. As long as they get used its ok by me!..................geo

sonjaab · July 2003

sonjaab@aol.com

rsteph · July 2003

But anyway......I don't think I can buy into the "Catera Touring Sedan" idea. But fjk57702 is right when he says LaNeve explains the first letter as the "class". Using that formulae, CTS means "C"(class) "T"ouring "S"edan. However, I've learned over the years that just because "the boss" says it, doesn't necessarily mean it's right. Then, Cadillac themselves (whomever themselves are) tells me it means "C"adillac "T"ouring "S"edan. So, for the sake of argument, let's assume LaNeve did know what he was talking about and it's a "C" class. That's well and fine. What, exactly, is the "C" supposed to mean? If the "class" refers to some level of performance (or something else) it has to be quantified somehow. I have a hard time with the picture that they were all sitting around a table one day and someone said, "Let's call it a CTS" and everyone else agreed without someone asking, "And what does that mean?" (I apologize if this is trivial to some of you. Unfortunately, I'm happy with the transmission, gear ratio, torque, engine, suspension, etc..etc. And I'm not enough of a mechanic or engineer to jump into those topics. So, since I can't find anything else to wonder about besides oil filters and the name..I'll pick on the name for a while.

)

wwhite2 · July 2003

My Onstar news letter had some interesting info .....as of Feb 16 2008 wireless carriers will not have to support analog service .As of now Onstar is ONLY an analog service .Looks like there will be a problem unless a dual/Tri mode unit can be retrofitted

fjk57702 · July 2003

There are two basic questions here: 1) what do the 3 letters stand for? 2) where did they come from? . The first letter is the series name and clearly the S - series came from the Seville Touring Sedan (STS) which started with the late 80's Seville. How did they choose C for the CTS's series name? Certainly C could have come from the Catera or it could have come from the old Cadillac Touring Sedan (89-93). The Cadillac Touring Sedan predated the Concour, which was the predecessor to the DTS.

Obviously the D-series is the Deville, the S-series is the Seville and that explains the source of the letters for the series. In the CTS's case, they could have picked any letter it seems to me. Choosing C suggests Cimmarron/Catera were the predecessors, which is true. The DTS's predecessors were clearly the Concour and the Cadillac Touring Sedan. I don't have a clue about the X series.

jemiller · July 2003

'CTS' means exactly the same thing as 'Camry', or as 'Camaro', or perhaps even 'Catera'.

That is, the marketing guy put on the latex glove, inserted hand up backside, pulled something out and put it on the table.

Everyone looked at it and the customer clinics found it acceptable, the lawyers found it didn't step on anyone's toes or have any offensive connotations, and so the decision was made.

Strongly advise one not go looking for deep meanings where there aren't any.

oldsman01 · July 2003

At one point I had heard that after 2005 cellular carriers will not have to support the AMPS(analog) standard, but maybe that has been extended since alot of Onstar type vehicle location devices use analog. Also, UPS uses a similar type device for tracking their vehicles. AT&T wireless has been a big proponent of not having to support analog as they are starved for spectrum in many large cities and would like to be able to use the analog spectrum for their digital networks. I'll be curious as to what Onstar will do. My guess is within a year or so we will see digital Onstar units. Hopefully, they will go with CDMA-1X technology.

rsteph · July 2003

According to LaNeve's explanation (he used the SRX moniker) that one stands for "S" series "R"econfigurable X=crossover. (The "S" here can't be Seville class..it's an SUV. If it's "series", how is it that the SRX and STS are the "same series" type of vehicle?) So XLR either means "X" series L=??? "R"econfigurable...or, if the letters are all supposed to mean the same thing, then XLR is X=crossover L=??? "R"econfigurable. Problem is the "explanations" given or hypothesized seem to work okay (more or less) if you use a specific vehicle as the example. Things start falling apart, though, when looking at the broad model spectrum across the brand.
(There are always "deep" meanings. And if not, we'll make 'em up!!!)

fjk57702 · July 2003

I think the XLR is the X series Luxury Roadster, note that the R in the middle is not in the same place as the R at the end, so meanings may be different. The SRX is in the S series, meaning that pricewise, it will be priced with the STS, and perhaps the interior's may be similar in quality. But, I think that the SRX is a lot like the CTS, except that it is bigger and does have the northstar V8.

The first character in the three letter name is for series. The second and third letters identify the type of vehicle. The third letter seems to claify whether it is a sedan, wagon, sports car, coupe, and so on. So the middle letter is an adjective that delinates between luxury, touring, and probably a number of other things.

I think that this scheme is still in developement and current names are intended to be linked with existing vehicles. The question is what they will come up with for new product lines.

rsteph · July 2003

Okay fjk...I would tentatively agree (this is today's consensus...at least until something that makes a little more sense comes along) that the "meaning" of the letters are not only specific to the letter but also to the location (1st, 2nd, 3rd) in the name. So, this actually assigns 3 different meanings to each letter (is that right..is my math correct??) depending on where it's at. This being the case, we MUST start a grassroots movement to call upon Cadillac for development of a "decoder ring" so we can figure this stuff out. (Is pmdriver listening???). Afterall, we ARE talking about the "standard of the world" here. The world must be in order!!!! (I didn't start this. They're the ones who came up with the catchy names. It's kinda embarassing, you know, to drive a Caddy and have someone ask what the model name means, and your best answer is, "Ummmmm...search me!!".

rsteph · July 2003

Seems like I also "heard" somewhere that they use imported air from Monaco (for that little bit of extra glitz) to fill the tires at the factory. Alas, I just can't get into that one until this moniker thing is solved once and for all.

fjk57702 · July 2003

Yes, I know what you mean. Someone asked me what the GTO stood for on my 1969 Pontiac GTO. I didn't know then and still am not sure. I think that jemiller is right, that having picked some set of three letters, they are going to make sure that it is a "good" set of letters before just putting it on the car. Otherwise, why not the ATS or BTS?

w5kap · July 2003

FJK57702 GTO stood for Gran Turismo Omiligata (not sure on the spelling of that last one). It really did have ameaning though I have no clue what it meant!!

ffmcobalt · July 2003

Gran Turismo Omaligato (sp?) means that the vehicle will make competitive racing times, right out of the factory.

jemiller · July 2003

Gran Turismo Omologato - homologated (registered with a race sanctioning body) grand-touring car. It does not mean that the car is competitive out the factory door.

What it means is that certain race series have certain requirements (you have to sell a certain number of units to the public with an engine of a specific capacity, with a specific set of parts, etc. to be able to use them on the track) and the manufacturer certifies through homologation that they will do this.

In Pontiac's case, they stole the label directly from Ferrari (for which they justifiably caught a lot of flak) which clearly illustrates how irrelevant the origins of a name can be - the Pontiac GTO was in no way a GT by any realistic standards, and it was not homologated with any sanctioning body, and there's no race series (that is, the kind that turn left and right) in which it would have been competitive in any case. Herb Adams did at one point run an old Tempest in Trans-Am, IIRC.

The '69 Trans Am *was* homologated with the SCCA for the Trans Am series, although they pretty much outright lied about the car's engine capacity.

And, since this is grossly off-topic for a CTS thread, this will be my only post on this.

fjk57702 · July 2003

I was thinking that the name was stolen from an Italian sports car - but in Pontiac's case, I think that they just thought GTO was a good set of letters for a name (even though stolen).

I think that for the CTS, saying that it is just the name and doesn't mean anything in particular is a good response to anyone who asks.

cdnpinhead · July 2003

can dance on the head of a pin, if 37.312% of them have broken legs?

Philosophers care, I'm told. Most of the rest don't.

That this board spends its time trying to figure out where the "C" in CTS came from says volumes about the car -- there appear to be no real issues.

pmdriver · July 2003

The C in CTS absolutly does not stand for Catera. It designates a vehicle type/class - as in C-series. When we went throught the media launch for the car we learned all of the background on the naming. Each of our Cadillac vehicle lines are designated by a letter designation of C, S, X and so on. (Not to be confused with our corporate platform names - the CTS is a "D" body off of the "Sigma" platform). Confusing I know!

By the way, yesterday USA Today had a run down of JD Power's 3 year quality results. Cadillac was the #7 brand overall, with the third lowest increase of problems after the initial 90 day period (behind Subaru and Buick). That's huge when you consider the CTS was a brand new platform at a green field (brand new) plant.

If any of you listen to a syndicated radio show called "Cigar Mike", a couple of us will be talking cigars and Cadillacs with him on Saturday at 1:00pm EST. I unfortunately haven't been provided with a list of stations so I have no idea which direction to point you to. He's visiting us at Comerica park, the home of our Tigers!

b4z · July 2003

We have closure.

mannytranny · July 2003

Thanks pmdriver!!!!!!!!!!!!!

sevenfeet0 · July 2003

If you think that the current three letter designations are confusing, consider other points in Cadillac history. Between 1936 and 1976, Cadillac had the following names for vehicles floating around (though not all at once)

Series 60
Series 60 Special
Series 61
Series 62
Series 63
Series 70
Series 72
Series 75
Series 90

(I'm sure I've missed a few...)

For the buyer, the numbers didn't mean anything descriptive but the level of luxury and status generally increased with the numbers, except for the Series 60 Special which was placed between the Series 62 and Series 75 in most model years.

All the while, other (real) names made their debut including Eldorado, Deville, Seville, Calais (replacing the Series 61 and 62) and various Fleetwood designations (usually Series 75, later Eldorado).

And then Cadillac brought back the Series 60 Special name in the late '80s, which had virtually no context to the names of the other products, outside of an historical footnote. What a mess!

jemiller · July 2003

As I noted earlier, the whole C, S, X, etc. were probably pulled out of the marketing staff's backside:

"We can't use numbers, they enforce a hierarchy and we may run out - look, BMW's got a 1 now and they had to buy Rolls-Royce to go past 8."

"What about letters?"

"One letter with numbers looks like Mercedes or Volvo. Without the numbers it looks like a typo."

"Two?"

"Two letters looks like Lexus. Lincoln already stepped in that one, Google for LS and you get a bunch of Lexus stuff."

"THREE???"

"Alright, three. And no engine displacements in the tag."

"Alright."

fjk57702 · July 2003

Before 1938, there was a general series 60, which was the low end cadillac (series 50 was a LaSalle). When the sixty special was introduced, it was a series 60S and the low end cadillac was renamed the series 61. The 60S had a "Fleetwood" interior package. The DeVille name entered the picture in the 50's and was attached to a series 62 model. The series 61 floated in and out of the picture. The Deville was upgraded to series 63 (and the series 61 was dropped) in the 60's. By the mid-60's the series numbers went out of use, replaced by the model names (DeVille, Sixty Special ...).

jeff06 · July 2003

I have owed my CTS (sports model) for a little over a year and I have 41,000 miles on it. It is fully loaded (every option) My problem is the buttons that control my NAV functions is peeling. The grey paint is peeling and the white plastic is showing. I hate this because it makes my new car look cheap. I have shown this to the dealer (Sewell Cadillac Dallas Tx) and they have replaced my NAV for me but I don't want to go that route again because you loose all your programed destination settings ( I have a lot). I was informed the daeler can not just replace the buttons. My end solution is to have them replace the NAV once more (arrrrg) and use some clear finger nail polish on the buttons to keep them from wearing so fast. Any suggestion or is any one else having this problem.

Jeff
jeff06@speakeasy.net

sonjaab · July 2003

Resend me your info......Pushed wrong button and erased it......DUH !
Will send out coupon today !.............geo

ANYBODY else need one to get that GM employee price plus 4% on any new GM ? Remember also NO adv. fees or DOC fees when using these bad boys! Have 1 left.....

b4z · July 2003

How long are they good for?

calicadi · July 2003

Just for the record, I printed your response on name origin and will file with the owner's manual.

Is that the same JD Power result that showed the Chrysler division had a higher rating than its' parent Mercedes? JD Power hs been in the (TV) news a lot lately. I'm not sure if these tidbits are all from the same survey, but I did hear mention on one broadacast that GM as a whole had the largest improvement gain of any manufacturer.

b4z · July 2003

As most of you know the CTS was 1 of the few cars produced by GM during the Summer Shutdown.
There were a few Bravadas produced and some Avalanche's in Mexico.
The CTS plant was shutdown last week but 1122 were produced this week as of today.

b4z · July 2003

Was looking at a '04 and have to ask why Cadillac went to the trouble of putting a true dual exhaust system on the car if you can't see it.
I literally had to get down on my knees to see the
black painted 2" pipes that are barely visible.

The deville has 4 stainless oval pipes visible under the bumper.
Why doesn't the CTS have stainless tips?
Isn't the CTS more performance oriented than the deville (DTS).

I think the neutral color console looks better than the pewter colored one.

pmdriver · July 2003

Dual exhausts improve function over single exhaust systems by decreasing the system back pressure (measured in inches of mercury) and allowing the powertrain to breath easier - ultimately increasing power after the engine is recalibrated. Dual exhausts are heavier (someone asked why the mass increased between '03 and '04, this was a factor). The aesthetics of the exhaust can be worked from there, with the tips being defined by distance to the rear fascia for thermal issues, pass-by noise requirements, etc. By the way, stainless steel tips are very expensive. We are using investment cast stainless steel tips for the CTS-V which have air pockets on the top side to provide protection for the fascia from the hot exhaust gases.

Correction on the cigar show tomorrow. It's "Smoke This" with Cigar Dave at 1:00pm.

sonjaab · July 2003

The "put a gm in the driveway" program has been extended till Sept. 2. At first you only got 2 coupons and no reissues. GM must of sold some cars because they have extended it and I can order more coupons they tell me. It works out to 4% over GM employee/retiree/family deal. No adv. fees or DOC either.
Gave away 5 so far.................geo

http://www.gminthedriveway.com

sonjaab · July 2003

Coupon on the way! ENJOY !..........geo

b4z · July 2003

I am very familiar with the advantages of dual exhausts.
Is there a crossover pipe in the system?

The extra weight must be from the additional catalytic convertor, piping, muffler and a additional resonator if any.

I could see how that would add quite a bit of weight.

Reminds me of the last generation Toyota Supra that had a large single exhaust system to save weight and improve performance.

I noticed that the mufflers are extremely close to the rear bumper. It does not leave a lot of room for a stainless tip.

My feeling is that a proper performance vehicle should have the visual cue that comes with a dual exhaust system.

I guess the aftermarket will step in and fill the need.

b4z · July 2003

I want to order a '04 sometime in August so I am not sure if the coupon will help me.

jemiller · July 2003

The question is 'what advantages'?

Depends greatly on the car, the engine, and the packaging under the chassis.

The vast majority of cars with 'dual exhausts' these days merge both headpipes into a single pipe for most of the length of the car, splitting again into two mufflers at the rear. You don't gain much by this, but it looks better I guess.

V8 BMWs have a different situation - they have dual pipes all the way back from the engine, merging into a single pipe and a single muffler/resonator assembly behind the rear axle.

Assuming a fairly efficient exhaust system, I think the biggest room for improvement comes in the first three feet out of the exhaust ports in the head. Improving flow in this area is often at odds with meeting US cold-start smog regs, which need the catalysts to heat up as quickly as possible.

automole · July 2003

" By the way, stainless steel tips are very expensive. We are using investment cast stainless steel tips for the CTS-V which have air pockets on the top side to provide protection for the fascia from the hot exhaust gases. "

Apparently rear fascia plastic is very expensive too since there's a factory cutout on mine for an exhaust tip that doesn't exist!

Seriously though, SS exhaust tips ARE NOT that expensive and come standard on many less expensive cars. Also, if all those cheap import cars with giant exhausts and rear valences made of cheap plastic can get by without the rear end of their car melting from the hot exhaust gasses I'm sure the GM thinktank can come up with a solution for the CTS.

FWIW I plan on adding an exhaust tip to my CTS if I don't end up trading it for a 2004 first!

gbriank · July 2003

Well folks, I drove several cars today. '04 CTS, '01 530I-A and '01 GS400. I could get either of these cars for about the same price. I like all of them...

redgtconv · July 2003

I am probably going to get a 2004 CTS. Does anyone know when they will be available at the dealers?

automole · July 2003

The 2004's are available NOW!

mmelendez5 · July 2003

Been reading most of the posts in this group. You guys are very knowledgable. I am considering 04 CTS against 04 Maxima.

One of the points IMO favoring Maxima is the fact that their options package is less expensive and you are not forced to get the ~$9,000 options package to get the same features. Also the Maxima has a strong V-6 (265 HP).

Would like opinions on why CTS is better (other than buy american). Also, does anyone have info on CTS-Vseries pricing? When it will be available? Dealer told me late Fall because they are pushing their Crossover and Convertible Autos.

Also does anyone have that GM Family and Friends Voucher. That could be a deal breaker for me and get me into a 04 CTS

b4z · July 2003

I thought about the Maxima, but they are designed to a different level than the CTS.
I feel that the CTS is a premium or near luxury car.
The CTS is RWD which is a big thing for me.
The FWD Maxima has a lot of torque steer.
I am not going to spend 30K+ for a car that I can't put my foot into any time I want and at any point in a corner I want.
The CTS with the same options will be more expensive than the Maxima because it costs more to build.
The upside on the maxima is that the FWD packaging gives it more interior room.

b4z · July 2003

Did you drive the CTS in the sport mode?

I bet the GS400 was the fastest.

rfdevil1 · July 2003

As automole stated the '04s are appearing on dealer lots already. However, Cadillac's website will only show you '03s when you search inventories. Not sure why. You'll have to actually visit a dealer and look around. If you don't see one, ask! They're not (at least by me) touting that they've got '04s in. I guess because they wan't to move the remaining '03s.

b4z · July 2003

My dealer is down to 5 '03's and has sold the silver '04 I test drove.
He just got a diamond '04 in the other day.
I would think just about every Caddy dealer in America either has a '04 or should have one in the next week or two.

gbriank · July 2003

The salesperson put the car in sport mode for me before the testdrive started. It was great! Lots of power through out the entire rpm range. I was surprised how close it got to redline, shifting just at the line.

After reading some of the posts here, I decided to see I could replicate the same on my drive. I was shocked! The shifter does move during hard acceleration. That took me totally off guard. I thought, "maybe it is just because it is rwd." During my drives in the Lexus and BMW, I never spotted anything like this. It is something I could live with, but a little disconcerting.

Here are my impressions:

CTS (positive)- good powerplant, surprising transmission (responds quickly to driver commands), American built (cheaper to repair), comfy front seat, vast dealer network
(negative)- interior is cheaper, not sure about reliability, no telescopic steering wheel (pmdriver, suggest this get fixed midyear. Borrow from Saab parts bin if necessary), expensive with options that are considered standard on other vehicles in price range

GS400(positive)- out-of-this-world acceleration, smooth transmission (with manual shift capabilities), high residual value (like this matters since the car is 3 years old anyway), QUIET interior
(negative)- poor fuel economy, steering is not up to par, aluminium components on the outside are easily damaged, limited dealer network

528i(positive)- broad powerband, smooth transmission, perfect steering, good fuel economy, perfect seats (fit like a glove), CR says its reliable
(negative)- little slow (530 is what I would consider. Said to be faster), expensive parts, expensive labor, limited dealer network

To wrap up, i'm confused.... I really liked all of the cars. Each one is amazing traits.... Darn! Back to the drawing board....

libertycat · July 2003

Your idea sounds SOOO cool (not) but I know as a fact that CTS stands for Catera Touring Sedan just as the Seville and Deville replacements will be STS and DTS. Cadillac is moving from names to letters to fit in with the luxury crowd (and Saturn, LOL). Lincoln may end up doing this also.

ryoken · July 2003

Yes, there's the RWD v. FWD debate. Are you looking for a performance sedan first, or a luxury sedan first? If performance and RWD are important to you, go with the CTS over the Maxima, but also take a peek at the Lincoln LS, Infiniti G35, and BMW 330i before deciding. If you are more interested in the luxury side, or the gadgets, the Maxima is the better deal of those two, but you should also look at the Acura TL-S, Volvo S60, or Audi A4. To me, the Maxima isn't in the running unless you're also shopping for an Accord or Camry or Taurus. The Maxima is in an odd spot.. too expensive to go up against the family sedans, and not prestigious enough to go up against the entry-luxury sedans.

The only thing that really kept the CTS off the top of my buy list was the engine -- a contender, but not at the top of the pack. But that was 7 months ago, and it looks like the new 3.6L could change that, not to mention the V8.

Cadillac CTS/CTS-V

Comments

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles