Cadillac CTS/CTS-V

rsteph · July 2003

Thought I read somewhere that the "V" pricing was going to be in the $70K range.

(My mistake...it's the XLR that's in that range..Kelly shows it's base retail at $76k,)

libertycat · July 2003

There is NO way in the world it could be that high. I would guess the price would be in the $40Ks.

b4z · July 2003

530i is faster than 528i. More torque down low.
I raced a 330i in my Impala last year and he killed me off the line and then just flat ran away from me.
Every one of the 227 hp is getting to the ground.
BMW doesn't overrate it's engines.
Also it has the identical transmission that the CTS has.

b4z · July 2003

CTS-V will be 48-50K.

eaton53 · July 2003

That the 330i has the same tranny as the CTS, because the BMW I drove yesterday was very slow to kick down when I stomped on the gas. It took nearly a full second to react to the input.

The CTS I've driven never did that. Maybe there was something wrong... it was quite annoying.

b4z · July 2003

I think the CTS, or the '04's anyway are driveby wire.
The '04 that i drove was the most responsive to gas pedal inputs than any car I have driven.

libertycat · July 2003

Tell rsteph that, he/she thought it would be in the 70's.

gbriank · July 2003

The 5-series BMW shares the same transmission with the CTS. 3-series....not sure...

gbriank · July 2003

eaton53:
The 5-series BMW shares the same transmission with the CTS. 3-series....not sure...

b4z:
Thanks for the info... Do you have a CTS? What model year? Did you shop it against BMW? If so, what are your thoughts....

b4z · July 2003

Haven't bought one yet.
Drove the '04 2 weeks ago and the '03 2 weeks before that.

Base price on 5 series is about 10K more than CTS.
5 series is an excellent car and tops all of the car mag tests.

You are buying used so I guess the prices are comparable.

I just have heard too many stories of people spending $3-400 every time their car is on the shop.
You must buy certified. I wouldn't ever let a BMW get out of warranty.

The Lexus GS is very nice but doesn't sell that well. Can't figure it out.
Maybe it has something to do with the fact that all of Lexus's car sales are down.

What is holding me back on the CTS is that I wish there was just a little more backseat room.
And I am wondering when Cadillac will offer better incentives. Eventually the supply will catch up with the demand and I don't want to open the paper and see $3000 rebate on all '04 CTSs!
If you know what I mean.

Cadillacs generally don't have great resale value.
But I think the CTS may have stepped outside the box on resale.
I am sure I will probably pull the trigger sometime in August or September.
But it will be a special order. Base car with 3.6L motor and sport package.

wwhite2 · July 2003

go for the 540i six speed manual, sport package ....you cant go wrong

eaton53 · July 2003

Is the same one that's in the CTS, they should have also put it in the the 3-Series, because the one that's in the 330i isn't very good.

mcgreenx · July 2003

The '04 I saw a couple of weeks ago on my dealer's lot didn't have a window sticker, just a sticker that said "Property of General Motors," or somesuch. Don't know if they're available for sale yet.

mmelendez5 · July 2003

I think I am going to hold off till November-December and see if I can get a great deal on a 04 CTS but I am also looking at an 03 530. Hopefully there will be a big dip in pricing or incentives since they are going to a new body style but it is still a BMW. They may say who cares.

JNorthstar · July 2003

The 03 is drive by wire.

redgtconv · July 2003

I don't think there have been any incentives on the CTS yet, so I don't expect any on the '04. I am also going to order a base model with the 3.6L, auto, and sports package. Unforturnately I have to wait for an end of December delivery, because that is when my current lease ends.
I would have also preferred fold down rear seats. I simply don't understand why you have to by a $5000- package in order to have the privledge of spending another $450- for the fold down seats.

gbriank · July 2003

b4z:
Cost of repairs is what worries me about the BMW...not to mention, the dollar is slipping against the euro and you know what that means.... PARTS are bucu expensive!

I think there are two problems with the GS. Sporty car stuck in the middle of a bunch of luxury cars. Wasn't until last year that another sport version (IS300) showed up. Unfortunately, there have been a few problems with them (major squeaks and rattles, etc...) unbecoming of a Lexus. Second, steering isn't all that good either. Doesn't inspire me as much as my Saab, CTS and definitely not the 5 series.

Resale is a serious problem with all GM cars. CTS has 43% residual on a 3 year Power Buy. I know this isn't a popular statement, but car companies need to stop this incentive madness. If the car should be sold for $26000, then sticker it at $26000. Don't give a "false" hope that it is worth more. Now I know the market dictates how much you pay for a vehicle, but let's be serious. Ooh, I know i'm gonna get flamed for that last line.....

wwhite2:
I can't drive manual any more. Some lower back injuries are finally catching up with me. Engaging a clutch, especially a sport version, wreaks havoc.

eaton53:
You're probably right... I'm not sure.

mcgreenx:
You were looking at one of the "24 hour" test drive cars. They officially are owned by GM and are designated as such.

mmelendez5:
Not likely.... The 530 will be in high demand for a while. Have you seen the new 5 series. HIDEOUS!!! Not to mention, BMW equipped it with "i-drive". Having talked to a few 7 series owners, it takes forever to adapt to it. There are $4000 incentives on the remaining 5 series cars.

redgtconv:
What are you leasing? Your statement about the $5000 to get the $450 split folding rear seat is exactly what i'm talking about. Split folding rear seats are standard in other cars in this category.

b4z · July 2003

I am not happy about not being able to get the folding rear seats ala cart. My Impala LS has them and I can get a 32" wide screen door in the car AND shut the trunk!!!
Also xenons are not available on base car.
But I have already bored you guys with that rant.

b4z · July 2003

I think all cars are shipped from the factory with a "property of GM" sticker that contains no pricing info.
The Munroney sticker is put on later at the dealership.
Some dealers do not participate in the "24 HR" test drive program.

oldsman01 · July 2003

$4K incentives on the 5 series? Wow, thats a first. I do think that the current 5 series will remain in demand it is looks better than the new one inside and out IMO.

Resale has traditionally been a problem with nearly all US branded cars and I agree, the heavy discounting and reabtes on the front end is partly to blame, but seeing as these have been mostly absent on the CTS, I wonder why projected resale is so low. My only guess may be they fear that first year models will be hurt due to a new engine being available on later models.

b4z, my Intrigue has the split folding rear seats and they have come in handy a couple of times. Personally, I don't think it would cost Cadillac hardly anything to make them standard on the CTS, but they must have their reason. Actually, alot of luxury cars do not have this feature. Oh well, I like it but can live without.

b4z · July 2003

The CTS still has a small pass through.

lichtronimo · July 2003

Dumb question but one I can't seem to get an answer for anywhere else: Can you get a CTS with a manual transmission and a sunroof?

redgtconv · July 2003

I am currently leasing an '01 Aurora V-6, which has standard items that are optional on the CTS, such as lumbar support and wood trim on the interior. In fact, I think the Aurora interior is much richer looking than the CTS. The fold down rear seats are important to me. I may not need them every day, but it sure makes the car a lot more practical when you do. If there is one item that might make me look elsewhere it would be that.
In adddition to the fold down rear seats, I would have also liked to get the Xenon lights which are also not available on the base model. These types of decisions by GM are intentional to force you to buy a whole bunch of options you don't want.

fjk57702 · July 2003

The answer is Yes, but...
2003 models require the luxury package
2004 - not available except with packages that also require the new V6, which requires the automatic transmission.

jemiller · July 2003

IMO, of course:

CTS pros - attractive price/content ratio for a new car, excellent chassis, good seats.

CTS cons - engine weakest of the three, don't like the shape (wouldn't stop me from buying a CTS-V, but would stop me from buying a V6 CTS), back seat headroom limited, material quality not quite up to GS or 530i standard.

GS400 pros - great engine, well-matched to its transmission, long-term Toyota durability.

GS400 cons - chassis and 'feel' least impressive, flat seats, chubby shape (MUST have the 17in wheels to look decent.)

530i pros - good at everything, good chassis and great 'feel', big and active owner community, sport seats best available on any of these cars as long as you're under 200lb, far and away the best looking.

530i cons - there's a zillion of 'em out there, not as all-out fast as the GS400, folding back seat a little rattle-prone.

On what do you base your statement that BMW parts and service are expensive? Have you priced them head-to-head?

My experience has been the opposite - because the BMW owner base is so big, so vocal, and so well-wired, problems become known quickly, fixes end up documented and spread around a dozen lists and websites, and the best parts sources become widely known.

b4z · July 2003

'04 CTS more powerful than 530i.

debtoma · July 2003

This is the first time I have been here, so please bear with me. I have an 03 CTS which I got 3 months ago and is back in the shop for the 2nd time in 2 weeks. The car has approx. 4800 miles on it. It appears to me that it has something to do with the security system, but I have not heard from the dealership since it went in on July 7th. When you turn the key to start the car you get absolutely nothing. No click, no sound whatsoever. Then when you try to remove the key it only comes back half way and will not come out of the ignition. The headlights remain on but nothing else works. No radio, no windows, no locks, no on star, not a thing. The first time this happened it came back after about 5 minutes. The 2nd time it was about 15 minutes and when I went back to the car and turned the key it started up like nothing ever happened. I took it to the dealer and they said it had something to do with the programming of the security system. The third time it did the same thing and this time the dealer technician came to my office and found he could not start the car. He popped the hood, thinking it was the battery, and attached his computer to the underneath of the dashboard and lo and behold, the car started.
I drove the car back to the dealership, and en route all of the accessories shut down. No air conditioning, no radio, no on star, no windows, no door locks, no gas gauge yet the sunroof opened. That was a week ago, and they still have my car. Is there anyone out there that has had this problem, or has heard of it? Any suggestions?

rsteph · July 2003

Certainly sounds like the onboard computer is going wacko. At the dealer for a week, though, and no info. That isn't good customer service. I'd be on them to see what's up. (Did they provide you another car??)

jemiller · July 2003

True. Haven't driven one of those.

wwhite2 · July 2003

I wish you all the best with that problem. I hope your dealership has bright enough service department employees to solve what could be a tough problem . They may have to farm the job out to a independent electrical specialist . Dont forget the lemon law if your state has one

gbriank · July 2003

Great comparisons! As for service, after my testdrive I paid a visit to the service dept. They had a listing of minor and major service cycles, not including oil changes. BMW requires that to be changed every 10 to 12,000 miles. Most were just like Saab cycles, checks of the engine and replace fluids....But well into the $600 range (30k Maintenance) Parts from Germany (that could not be substituted with third party parts) were expensive. Most have risen about 15% since last year (Euro had surpassed the dollar in value).

If you had your choice, which would you go with? Remember to factor in residual value, reliability, repair costs, fuel and insurance.

redgtconv · July 2003

I just test drove the 2004 CTS. The dealer had about 10 of them, but non with the sports package, which I want. The car looked and drove well enough, but there were a few things that bothered me. No adjustable lumbar support, no rear a/c duct (very important in the heat of South Florida), no adjustment switch for the dashboard lights, no fold down rear seats. All of these are standard equipment on my Olds Aurora. And a very cheap looking center console (should have either wood or metal trim). They said they are getting one with a sports package on Friday. If it drives as well as I hope, I will probably still get it because I think the base car with the 3.6L and sports package is still a good value. But those other things do bother me.

redgtconv · July 2003

By the way, the dealer also told me that the 36 month residual for 12,000 miles per year was 53%, and that the lease interest rate was 4.95%. Can anyone here verify or dispute those figures?

b4z · July 2003

And no power passenger seat.

You have to get a 1SB car to get the 10 way front seat with power lumbar support.

Thre is a hold on base cars with the Sport package.

b4z · July 2003

Do you have any contacts with themarketing division at Cadillac?
I would like them to see some of our comments on option bundling.
Seems like some of these options should be available to base cars.
And frankly some of these should be standard items on a 30K car.

oldsman01 · July 2003

My CTS will likely be a base model with only the automatic(as I want the new V6) and compared with my Intrigue, I will actually lose a few features. These include sunroof, heated seats, stability control, power passenger seat, and Bose audio system. One might think that I was paying more money for less than what I already have, but one drive in a CTS and it becomes clear where the money you spend is going. And I haven't even driven an 04 model yet.

redgtconv · July 2003

I did not sit in the passenger seat so I did not notice whether it had power. I assumed that it was a power seat, just not 8-way. Are you telling me that the passenger seat is entirely manual. If it is, I think that this combined with the other items I previously mentioned just might make me change my mind and not get this car.
Also, I'm sure your right about the sports package (of course the dealer knew nothing about it). The one he said he was getting in Friday had the 1SC package. Do you know how long the hold on the sports package is, and what was the reason for it?

jemiller · July 2003

BMW services go oil-change, Inspection 1, oil-change, Inspection 2 then the cycle repeats. Interval somewhere between 8-14K depending on year (later ones stretch it further), # of cold starts, and amount of time over 4500RPM. Front brake pads last 30-45K miles, $45/set for OEM + a $6 wear indicator if you're inclined to do it yourself. Front rotors wear pretty fast, 40-55K miles, $50-65 each (530i/540i parts, 528i smaller.) BMWNA pays the first 3yr/36K maintenance and they've managed to time the indicators so that they NEVER have to pay the Inspection II. 6-cyl E39s have few major problems, a couple well-known minor ones.

I'm sure someone can provide compare/contrast information re the CTS.

As for what I'd buy - we've got two E39 BMWs already. Might look at trading the 540i once the CTS-V is out. Major consideration is how energetically the 'owner community' develops.

bingoman · July 2003

The console dimmer is the slider switch in the overhead console.

redgtconv · July 2003

We tried the slider switch, but it only seemed to control the light on the overhead console. It had no effect on the dash.

mcgreenx · July 2003

I believe the slider switch (rheostat) only dims the dash lights if the headlight are on, that is, if the car "thinks" it is dark out. That is independent of its control of the overhead lights. I find the slider switch less convenient, i.e., less easy to control, than a rotating knob, and I think its overhead location is stupid. I hate having to take my hand from the wheel and search up to the roof to adjust the lights. It should be located within fingertip reach of the steering wheel.

b4z · July 2003

Passenger seat is manual unless you go to 1SB or 1SB package.
Sport package is available on 1SB and 1SC.
There is a hold on 1SA.
I have seen a pic a 1SC Sport with the new 17" wheels that are mirror polish. It is pretty stunning.
email me at rwebb@prucar.com and I will send you the pic.

mannytranny · July 2003

........Heard the 'Smoke This' and it could make any Cadillac owner proud. It was a great segment of the show!
     I agree that Cadillacs have started to change the image for the better. Maybe my dealer will want to upgrade his showroom also as the trend continues. I heard your name mentioned at the start along with Ed but Jim did all the talking. What is your position at Cadillac?
     Since the movie, I've had many a kid tell me that they can't wait to get a CTS and they really like mine.
     I only briefly saw the SRX that was touring from Michigan at the dealer's showroom. The sunroof was impressive as you said. I'll have to go back and check it out more when they get stock in to sell.
     How many Cadillacs did you have there at the show? It sounded like a lot of them? Is it because the 'General' owns a 'slade' that he got you on the show?

jcat707 · July 2003

Does the CTS have a knob to control the sunroof like VWs and Audis?

gbriank · July 2003

Sounds like the front rotors last a while. My 9-3 needs new rotors (27,000 miles). Do you have a listing of how much repairs are costing you? I want to compare regional differences in cost to maintain.

M39, isn't that the I6 2.8l and 3.0l?

redgtconv · July 2003

Can a Loyalty Certificate and Conquest Cash be combined? And does anyone know how long the Conquest Cash program is scheduled to run?

jemiller · July 2003

I've responded via the email addr in your profile to your BMW service cost questions since it doesn't really fit this board topic.

biglev · July 2003

When is Cadillac going to release info on the 2004 CTS on the website. I am sick of waiting damnit. I am out.

redgtconv · July 2003

Go here: http://eogld.ecomm.gm.com/NASApp/domestic/proddesc.jsp?year=2004&- amp;regionID=1&divisionID=5&type=0&vehicleID=328&- section=modelhome&page=&butID=1

Also, the '04 cars are at the dealerships. Just go there and see them in person.

sevenfeet0 · July 2003

Yes, the CTS sunroof control has been described as very much like the controls that Audi uses. The first stop opens the roof part way. The second opens it all the way. The final one closes the roof but vents it up.

Cadillac CTS/CTS-V

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