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Comments
And why exactly are all the books wrong and "Chris" is right? What makes his info more valid exactly?
Even his own website shows the 425 standard for 1964, with no footnotes to the contrary. Perhaps he's not all that sure himself? It would be very tough to prove. Seeing cars with the 401 is a good start, but not the proof...if I saw a build sheet, well, I'd start to be convinced that all the books are wrong.
I'm not saying he's wrong, only that history needs to be researched better than that before it's changed.
Here's Chris' notes on the 1964
http://www.redeemer.on.ca/~cknowles/chron/chron.html
Nice site, by the way. I've bookmarked it.
I request that Edmunds replace you, or at least stop you from insulting people with your "know-it-all" attitude. This forum is to share information, not to make people feel like idiots! You have crossed the line on this one with your posts. A moderator should exercise a little more courtesy.
Your whole attitude changed when you found your "expert" who happened to agree with you.
The "expert" at the Buick Club that I talked about had an opposite opinion.
So, who is correct?
We had an interesting interchange going here until YOU turned nasty!
Now, perhaps youf expert is right, or just maybe your car was mickey moused with a 401 (like my friends) at some point in it's long life.
Again, I have NEVER seen a '64 401, and I have seen more than most!
Back when this first started, I said that I had heard that a few '64's may have come with the 401 from the factory. I also said that I had never seen one and that others said these never existed.
So go back and read my posts. I said that I would bet 100.00 that there were no factory 401's but that I wouldn't bet 1000.00. I think that statement should show that I'm not entirely sure.
I'm more than willing to accept the theory that a few 401'a could have found their way into 1964 Rivieras. Hopefully, you can also consider the possibility that perhaps, sometime, someone slipped a used 401 into your Riviera.
By the way, my friends Riv was also blue/green, he had had the scoops removed from the rear quarters to make it look more like a '65.
It's not that far fom LA to Portland...
If anything, I would have hoped you'd be pleased that this is a forum where the published facts are stated and referenced:
Here are the books that do not show a 401 option in 1964.
Encyclopedia of American Cars, Richard Langworth, 1980, Publications International
Catalog of American Car ID Numbers, 1960-69, Cars & Parts Magazine Editorial Staff.
Standard Catalog of AMerican Cars, 1946-1975, Editors of Old Cars Publications (Krause Publications)
Other books don't mention it one way or the other, and only one seemed to imply a possibility. That one was:
The New Illustrated Encyclopedia of Automobiles, DAvid Burgess Wise, Grange Books 1979 (Quarto Publishing).
So why don't you e-mail Chris and tell him all (or most) of the reference books might be in error and that he should help them correct the data?
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If you ever want to really see car collectors go at it, be a judge at a concours sometime. The plainer and more ordinary the car, the worse the arguments...Model A shows are pretty deadly. I've feared for my life.
A guy had the most beautifully restored 1950 Chevrolet I had ever seen! And he drove it to the show.
A judge docked him points because he felt that the vanity mirror was not an original. The owner swore it was.
He also knocked points off for some flyspeck pits in a piece of chrome.
The discussion got loud and ugly before some official decided to get involved.
And this was a mere '50 Chevy!
To get to the original question ... How could you drive them today? Excluding cars like the Zl-1 Camaro, most performance cars had a compression ratio in the range of 10:1 to 11:1. If the engine is in good condition, tuned right and isn't burning oil (which is a major cause of pinging), it is manageable with a few precautions. You can run even higher compression on the street like 12, 13 and 14 to 1. With that, you have to pay for the higher grade, which at last count, was about $4.50 a gallon or more for a good mid-grade race fuel. I understand 76 offers a 100 octane fuel at the pump. People who tell me they have seen it say it costs about $3 gallon.
One of my engines is an 11:1 402. I've run this one off 92 w/octane booster and a few degrees of timing removed. It was ok for putting around but it's not the blend to be using if you plan on racing someone.
I used to recurve advances with a Mr. Gasket kit that let you take advance out of the distributor and add a few more degrees at the crank. It really sharpened throttle response so I always ran at the hairy edge of audible pinging, but apparently the inaudible variety can get you too.
What's really annoying is to have the problem only in 1 or 2 cylinders.
Sometimes a combustion chamber will have a piece of casting flash that heats up more quickly than the surrounding metal, causing pre-ignition or uneven combustion.
Another variation is air-fuel mixture. Some cylinders will run lean because of compromises in intake manifold design. Those are the ones that ping first.
Good point on intake manifolds. That's one of the areas the aftermarket manufacturers have evolved in over the years. On dry EFI systems it's a moot point. Speaking of EFI, new FI/Ignition systems like the FP sefi8lo allow you to take ignition timing out of just 1 cylinder.
As for water down the carb... yes it does work but better yet do what some old time racers along with the US Army Air Corps did with some of the fighters in WWII...... Water injection. Its cheap, simple and not only helps avoid carbon build up but increases horsepower by providing a denser cooler air/fuel mix when you're running. You can get extra cute and rig it to work only at near or full throttle or triggered to actuate at a certain manifold pressure.