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Ford Windstar Problems
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First time posting here because of a problem my wife pointed out to me last night. I am hearing a hell of a racket with engine running when turning steering wheel left or right whether driving or just standing still. I checked power steering fluid and found level OK but it looked like chocolate milk and smelled terrible, the pump sounds like something is going wrong internally but I have no clue. The van was dropped off at dealers this A.M. to be checked out and I'm holding my hand on my wallet. TSB's I got from NHTSA site don't go into any detail on this, is there something one of you mechanic's out there might know or anyone who has been thru this with their Windstar? The van has 48000 miles so a warranty fix is outta the question.
Thanks for the help........
Ray T.
My 2 cents worth.
Ray T.
Ray T.
Now how about a Grand Voyager?
Ray T.
If FORD would just own up to the persistant repeated problems with the Windstars & do right by the customer they could bolster their credibility and sales in the market, rather than throwing away customers as they do.
My 2 cents.......
Ray T.
Ford has not fixed the issues we experienced with the 95. This week we took it to the bank and signed it over to them. We don't need more Ford headaches.
I am also interested in this because the Odyssey seems like a great van, but certainly has had its problems and I wonder what a 7 year old Odyssey will look like (i.e, comparable to a 1995 Windstar).
It would also appear most of us have trouble with the dealer. I have been buying from the same dealer for about 20 years. I get around 25% off all my work since I bring all my vehicles (I have a 99 Windstar SE, my wife has 94 Probe GT and we just purchased a 2001 Suzuki XL-7 in August) in for service. Yes, I even got a 25% discount on a balance, rotate and align on the XL-7. Had a long talk with the owner about the XL-7. When I went to purchase an Escape they wanted 2k over list and the sales people laughed when I said 500 over invoice. So I got the XL-7. The sales people did not even talk with the sales manager about my offer so they lost a sale. The owner was not really happy about that. When he saw the XL-7 he asked what happened. I told him the story. He told me to come directly to him the next time I wanted a car and I will get anything I want a invoice, plus any rebates on top of that. I said even an Excursion, and he said yes. I told him I would hold him to it in a few years. Anyway, I have a good relationship with
the service people and have not had any trouble getting things fixed. Hex, they had the Probe in just prior to it going out of warranty and the tech who serviced it said they wanted to keep it for an extra day to look at the auto trans and the next thing I knew there was a new one going in. The slightly hard shifting that I felt was the start of a major problem so they just replaced it, not an overhaul of the one in the car but a factory job. Not bad at all. The dealer is Sterling Ford in Sterling VA
Yes, we do Greyhound Rescue as part of Greyhound Pets of America. We will haul around 5 dogs lose or 4 with large crates. And yes, the Honda is a little small on the inside. The Chrysler products seem to have a better layout inside and a little more space. Our four crates require some jury rigging to get them all to fit in the Windstar. In the Dodge they just fit in with no trouble.
I'm glad you have a good repore with your dealer but this is the exception not the norm in this case. Bottom line is that the service dept. is there to bring in money to dealership and if they dupe the customer by NOT informing them of known TSB who pays the price?
Sorry for ranting but dealerships that operate like this tic me off when the only way they stand behind their product is at the customers expense.
Ray T.
It would be nice if more dealers stood behind their cars as mine does. That is one of the reasons I go back to them. Now then, I do not expect them to repair the trans or AC unit for free at 150K. I maintain a reasonable stance with them and it pays benefits in the long run.
Just about any expert will tell you that extended warranties are a waste of your hard earned money.
Outside of the infrequent disaster model, most major problems that are likely to develop will occur in the first 50k miles. Most manufacturers are providing 3yr/36k miles bumper to bumper coverage and some provide an extended drivetrain warranty of 5yr/60k miles.
Did you also know that some polution control devices on your car, such as the ECU/OBD (computer), catalytic converter and a few others are actually covered by a federal mandated warranty for 8yrs/80k miles if you live in an area which has an EPA approved emissions inspection and your car fails this inspection because the specified device is defective?
There are three specified major emission control components, covered for the first 8 years or 80,000 miles of vehicle use on 1995 and newer vehicles:
* Catalytic converters.
* The electronic emissions control unit or computer (ECU).
* The onboard emissions diagnostic device or computer (OBD).
There are also other emissions related parts covered under the EPA federally mandated Design and Defect Warranty for the first 2yrs/24K miles. Did you know that if you fail an emission inspection in the first 2yrs/24K miles on a 1995 or newer vehicle due to a bad PCV valve or defective spark plugs, you are fully covered under warranty for parts, labor and cost of testing and diagnosis?
Of course, the longer you own and drive a vehicle eventually parts will wear out and require repair.
I have a 1989 Chevy with 140K miles. The only major repair has been the timing gear at approx 90K. Everything, including the A/C, still operates. I have a 1988 Ford Taurus wagon (3.0l engine) with 130K miles. No major repairs required on that vehicle yet. I have a 1995 Ford Thunderbird (4.6L engine) with 107K miles. No major repairs required on that vehicle yet. If you spend your money on proper care and maintenance instead of an extended warranty, you'll be ahead of the game. I've only ever driven 2 vehicles for less than 100K before I sold them or traded them. A Chevette that was damaged in an accident and my 1996 Windstar. At least there was a good excuse for the Chevette.
I am a fanatic about maintance. I use Mobil 1 with a new filter every 5k. All maintance is pulled on time. I have the transmissions power flushed every 60K with new transfluid installed after the first 5k and put in synthetic fluid that meets Ford specs. I never let them use recycled fluids. I do all the things to keep them up and running. However, the miles we put on are hard ones. The Probe and Windstar do about 60 miles in DC rush hour traffic every day. That is 15K a year just going to work. We have a third vehicle (the XL-7) for the weekends and that will be suplimented by a 1990 Maxima next month. My mother died this past December and we now have the Maxima being shipped from Arizona later this month. It is the car driven by the "gray haired little old lady". It only has 72k on it and is in prime shape so that will help. I put over 6k a year doing greyhound events with a full load of either dogs or display materials. How you use your vehicle is also a part of the equation on an extended warranty. As I said above, I have used all the ones I have had way over the cost to me so in my instance the up front cost has been worth the investment.
I hear all kinds of stories from co-workers about problems with their vans. Especially Dodges, which apparently have self-destructing trannies. Two people I know have 96 Windstars with high mileage and not troubles to speak of. Wouldn't it make sense that the people with troubles would be attracted to a forum like this to discuss the problems? Thus, a high percentage of people posting here are having problems?
Last I checked, the 96 and 97 Windstar got average reliability ratings in Consumers Report. All other year Windstars got worse or much worse than average ratings.
You mentioned in a prior post that you got an extended warranty for about a grand less then normal, I shopped the net to find the best price on the same plan, what was the final cost you paid? We paid around $1200. By the way, we already made use of the plan we purchased for the 00, the torque converter went shortly after the factory warranty expired. To me, extended warranties are a crap shoot, sometimes you win sometimes you don't, the odds that you will need one with a windstar are rather high, thats why I bought one.
Thanks for the information on the Ping. It goes in for some minor work while I am on a trip to Arizona (I am flying) and I will leave it with them to work on and have it looked into. Again, thanks.
Regarding the ping again, I haven't heard of anyone having a problem with the 2000 model's pinging. Based on this I assume Ford was able to get a decent fix for it. Maybe its a component (PCM or whatever) that they can put on yours from a 2000 model that'll take care of it.
On the ping, thanks. From what I have found on this site the PCM (?) has to be replaced. Even re-programming does not do it, it has to be replaced. You are probably right, they use a 2000 model year part. Thanks for the info and good luck with your van.
As most experiences go, if you do not have the extended warranty, you are out of luck... Start with the Service Manager. If that goes nowhere, ask to have the dealership contact the Ford CSR (Customer Service Rep) and explain that you would like to work with that individual.
Yea, I am still a little bitter about my whole 95WS dealings (4th tranny and 4th engine) and I have only one course of action - No more Fords for me...
Good Luck!
Gill
2004 Honda Accord EX-L Graphite Pearl
2007 Honda Civic EX - Atomic Blue
2013 Honda Civic LX - Crimson Pearl
I am looking down the road at the first ever Chrysler/Dodge product since their 7/100 warranty is best out there so far. Don't want to wait for another major headache with this FORD (Fix Or Repair Daily) piece of crap Windstar. Now if Ford came out with this type of warranty as standard I would consider another.
By the way, what is the link you are using for TSB's ? I haven't had any luck finding them for free.
Ray T.
What symptoms did you have when the PS and rack system had to be replaced?
Thanks,
SEL3
I have found that MSRP of 2002 is increased so
much. At 2001, MSRP of SE is about $27,700,
now MSRP of SE is about $29,000. What kind
of extra equipment is added? Does MSRP change
explain the reason of sale number reduce?
Ford has had their financial problems of late. Be assured that there are price increases going on to attempt to expand profitability.
Also, Ford is famous for price negotiation. My cousin (10+ year car sales veteran) has shared with me that Ford seems to be "more" flexible when it comes to haggling (i.e., the percentage between "invoice" and "sticker" is a little higher, providing more wiggle room).
Good Luck!
2004 Honda Accord EX-L Graphite Pearl
2007 Honda Civic EX - Atomic Blue
2013 Honda Civic LX - Crimson Pearl
The TSB's supplied by NTHSA are short takes and do not go into detail which is what a former site used to do but was shut down by who knows who.
Ray T.
the result is that the volume of sales decreases
almost 30%. I think Ford do it purposely to
have the reason to shut down the assembly
plant. It was reported that this assembly
plant is the most effective plant of Ford.
Ford plans to close it. The worker ask why,
now Ford can say no one want the Windstar.
Ray T.
Chrysler is betting that their reliability has improved enough that the gain in sales will overweigh the impact of the warranty claims. Early reports for the 2001-02 vehicles may support that bet. Both Consumer Reports (In their 2002 buyers guide) and JD Powers are reporting improvements. In fact, some of the wehicles such as the PT Cruiser have entered Toyota/Honda territory in the CR frequency of repair charts. The Cruiser has all red dots, signifying much better than average reliability.
Will Ford and GM be willing to make the same bet? Perhaps, GM has already committed themselves partway with their extended warranty.
Similarly, Ford turned as much a blind eye at their engine/transmission debacle with the 3.8L/AXOD combination.
My .02 - it took a long time for these issues to arise - It will take just as long to make them go away.
Why is it so hard for manufacturers to do the "right" thing in the car service business! Admit when you do something wrong! For $30000, I have the expectation that I should not have to shell out any expense outside of standard maintenance for at least five years. Is that asking too much?!?!?!
2004 Honda Accord EX-L Graphite Pearl
2007 Honda Civic EX - Atomic Blue
2013 Honda Civic LX - Crimson Pearl
Problems don't generally emerge out of a vacuum. Those cars that develop problems later in life generally manifest some sort of problems early on.
I replaced my 95 with a used 99SE and have no complaints about it. There were only 19+k on it so it is still under warranty and I will have some minor items worked on but at 30K, 60K, etc it will get the maintance it calls for along with Mobil 1 and a new filter every 5k. Good maintance is the key. As the fram filter add says: pay a little now or a lot later. I will take a little now, thank you.
My 95WS history:
Original Purchase Date April 1995.
Serviced by ONLY Ford Dealers (2 dealerships).
ALL fluids checked prior to service visits (so that I would know if levels were falling).
No towing or excessive hauling.
Prior to 1999, she ran like a top...
JAN 1999 - 47000 - New Transmission (warranty)
MAY 1999 - 52000 - New Transmission (warranty)
MAY 1999 - 52000 - New Head Gaskets (warranty)
MAY 1999 - 52025 - New Motor (warranty)
JUL 1999 - 53000 - Replace O2 Sensors (warranty - $50)
OCT 1999 - 56000 - New Transmission (warranty)
JAN 2000 - 59600 - New Blower Motor (et al - only $400!) - Extended Warranty is about to expire...
FEB 2000 - 61000 - New Front Brakes & Rotors ($225)
APR 2000 - 63000 - New Inner Tie Rods ($300)
At EVERY oil change from this point forward, I indicated to the service rep that we were constantly smelling coolant....
MAY 2000 - 65000 - Front Brakes Line Failure - @70 MPH no less ($300)
MAR 2001 - 75000 - New Motor (warranty)
APR 2001 - 76000 - New Outer Tie Rods ($300)
DEC 2001 - 85000 - New Motor (warranty)
As you can see, neither the transmission nor the engine has made it 60000 miles. Remember, this vehicle has been DEALERSHIP maintained from Day 1. Good thing I bought that 5/60000 mile extended warranty!
While I agree that good maintenance is critical - I think you can see that you have to have a solid product that good maintenance will only enhance. Ford's 3.8L/AXOD engine/transmission problem combination is not an isolated issue (see any of the following): http://www.cartrackers.com, http://www.lemonaidcars.com, http://www.consumeraffairs.com, http://www.thecomplaintstation.com, http://www.epinions.com
It was an engineering defect that was not properly addressed throught their customer service channels. For THOSE reasons, I will no longer patronoize Ford. There are too many competitors to NOT properly deal with customer issues! Ford has taken quite a hit in the last five years - and I am living proof as to why.
Off the soap-box now! Enjoy!
Wholigan
2004 Honda Accord EX-L Graphite Pearl
2007 Honda Civic EX - Atomic Blue
2013 Honda Civic LX - Crimson Pearl
Oh well, at least it is running - for now. I like to read about all this stuff anyway. Just wish new cars didn't cost $30000! I am in no rush and have a very open mind - and very HIGH expectations after this debacle!!!
Later-
Wholigan
2004 Honda Accord EX-L Graphite Pearl
2007 Honda Civic EX - Atomic Blue
2013 Honda Civic LX - Crimson Pearl
VEHICLE FOR SALE
VEHICLE IS SOLD ON A FIRST COME, FIRST SERVE BASIS AND IS SOLD AS IS, WHERE IS
VEHICLE IS LOCATED AT TORONTO AUTO AUCTION
PLEASE RESPOND NO LATER THAN TUESDAY, MARCH 12TH
1998 FORD WINDSTAR CARGO VAN
APPROX. 91,000 KM
EXTERIOR COLOUR: VIBRANT WHITE
INTERIOR COLOUR: GRAPHITE CLOTH
3.8L 6 CYL ENGINE
AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION
AIR CONDITIONING, AM/FM CASSETTE, REAR DEFROSTER, CONVENTIONAL SPARE TIRE,
ABS BRAKES
PRICE: $4,500 + GST AND PST, (NON NEGOTIABLE)