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Buick Lucerne: Engine & Performance

135

Comments

  • robchemistrobchemist Member Posts: 37
    We have had a Buick LaCrosse for around 8 months with the 3.8L V6, and it has been more than adequate for that vehicle. Our uses include going to work, and whenever we go out (with or without our 2 kids, 8 and 9). The engine is extremely quiet (this is, of course, also a function of the body construction), and even with a full load, has more than enough acceleration for our needs. We live in Colorado, and our driving experience includes going into the mountains up ca. 10% grades with passing as needed, as well as standard flatland driving. Thus, if I were in the market for a Lucerne, I would almost certainly get the old-fashioned, boring 3.8. From my perspective, more power is nice in terms of bragging rights, but is of virtually no significance in terms of functionality or safety (There is a reason why as a car's horse-power goes up the insurance payments frequently also go up.).

    Off topic for those of you who ski - the skiing this year in the northern half of CO is outrageous!)
  • evandroevandro Member Posts: 1,108
    I have a '02 Bonneville with it and enjoy it too. However, passing and merging is not its territory, as I always attest to when I drive my '00 Intrigue with the 3.5 DOHC.

    The 3.8 lags the 3.5, a failed design BTW, in NVH and HP, but excels it in oil consumption and low-end torque. Mileage is about the same, with a slight advantage to the 3.8 in city driving and to the 3.5 on the highway.

    Owning cars with such different designs I wish there were an engine with the best virtues of both. I think I found this engine when I test-drove a La Crosse with the new 3.6. Now that I know that it exists, I'm not willing to compromise anymore.

    But that's just me...
  • evandroevandro Member Posts: 1,108
    I think GM used this engine because they have to produce it and it must go into something.

    Well, that's what trucks are for. Instead, the domestic makers have been investing in trucks and I'm afraid they'll pay a lot in the coming years now that the truck market has shrunk, hopefully the start of the end of this dreaded fad, IMO.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Well, that's what trucks are for. Instead, the domestic makers have been investing in trucks and I'm afraid they'll pay a lot in the coming years now that the truck market has shrunk, hopefully the start of the end of this dreaded fad, IMO.

    When will the truck market shrink? Still selling well over 50% in this country with gas at $3 and now at close to $2. Sorry, trucks are not going away. They will change however.
  • batistabatista Member Posts: 159
    The 3800 is going to be in cars bought by rental agencies and people more concerned about mileage than acceleration.

    My 01 Impala with the 3.8L has been giving me 15 mpg in the city during the winter months and 17 mpg in the summer. This isn't great fuel economy in my books.
    I obtained 14 mpg in the city with a 300C with the hemi engine and that's with me flooring it every 5-10 minutes.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,132
    The torque curve on the 3800 is well done. Most people driving a basic Lucerne aren't going to be hot rodding it. That seems to be the basis for some to judge a motor. But reality is when I floor my LeSabres, they both surprise me at how well they move. I realize the Lucerne is slightly heavier and sounds like it may be geared at some speeds for less performance and more pollution control. I am looking forward to braving a salesman and driving a Lucerne 3800 soon.

    The Lucernes I'm seeing driven are by people younger than LeSabre/Park Avenue drivers in my judgement. The idea that most people car about a motor's build is like saying they care about FWD vs RWD. Most don't; a part do care.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • evandroevandro Member Posts: 1,108
    In September, both GM and Ford sold about 40% less than the previous year. In October, overall, trucks sold 15% less. Yet, it made just a dent on their market share relative to cars. :cry:

    But unfortunately you're right, trucks won't go away and SUVs will only change.

    I dread trucks because I'm tired of those slow behemoths on the left lane slowing down before even the gentlest curves. Darn, I don't use the brakes for hundreds of miles, traffic allowing! ;)
  • evandroevandro Member Posts: 1,108
    My Bonneville delivers about 29MPG on the highway and 23-24MPG in my commute, mixing 65% urban, 35% highway. The Intrigue, 31MPG and 22-23MPG, respectively.

    For the record, my Focus 2.0 delivers just 25MPG in my commute, although it weighs 1000lbs less and has just 65% of the power of the Bonneville.

    The 3.8 is a very fuel-efficient engine indeed.
  • batistabatista Member Posts: 159
    The fact that my 3.8L Impala gets driven 7 miles to work and most trips are when the engine is cold contributes to the bad fuel economy. My car has 30K miles in 4 years so I might replace it with a V8 Lucerne since I don't drive all that much.
    I am disappointed with the performance of the V8 considering the 3.8L W-Body vehicles are generally 0-60 in 8 seconds and the V8 Lucerne is 7.5 Sec? Shouldn't it be 6-6.5 seconds since it has nearly 300 lbs of torque and the supercharged grand prixs/impalas with the 280lbs of torque were performing 6.5 seconds. I know it weighs more but the 20lbs of torque advantage should even things out.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    The Automotive News website is free this week to all. The link shows data for the year.

    http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?Category=DATACENTER

    trucks are down -10% for November and -1.3% for the year thru November. Trucks are still selling well over 50%. Trucks are changing though. Buick will be selling a crossover "truck" that will be a BUICK!! So Buick will have 2 nice cars and a crossover that will complement each other well.

    Hopefully the LuCerne will get the 3.6 as base soon even though I think we will see a lot of 3.8's bought.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,132
    The torque ratings printed are at a maximum torque rpm. What really counts is the torque at lower speeds like 1500 and 2500 where many people are accelerating.

    The speed to 60 miles per hour is not really germaine. They could raise the numerical drive ratio and the car would accelerate like a jack rabbit, but the car would lose miles per gallon at cruising and probably there are other reasons the overall drive ratio was chosen. Remember the 4.11 rear ends they put in cars in the 70s (60s?) with 14 inch wheels which multiplies power compared to 15/16/17 inch wheels used now. They were hot rods, but gas mileage was terrible.

    If I recall correctly the touring model of LeSabres had a higher drive ratio which made them seem peppier at a slight loss in gas mileage.

    Speaking of that awful, ridiculed 3800 motor in my 03 LeSabre: I got 29 mpg actual from Dayton/Nashville and return at 72-75 mph with a few bursts of power. 3 people on board and trunk full and back seat partly filled with coolers and junk. It did slightly lower than in summer with air conditioning on. I don't know if it's my driving or more oil resistance in trans and motor due to cool temps - 30s instead of 80s. Pretty good for a motor that hauls the thing from 0-60 in about 7 seconds based on my test.

    Take both Lucerne types out and drive them to select the motor and drive ratio for you.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • 14871487 Member Posts: 2,407
    The lucerne has only been tested once and GM's 0-60 times are almost always conservative so I wouldnt be surprised if a LUcerne V8 is eventually clocked at 7-7.2secs by some magazine. The last generation STS/DTS were clocked at 6.4-6.5 secs with the 300hp Northstar. The Lucerne has less power, but a flatter torque curve with it's version of the Nortshtar, plus it weighs about 200lbs less than the FWD STS/DTS. In other words it should be able to get to 60 in about 7secs.
  • finfin Member Posts: 594
    Straight line acceleration is a function of several things as you have posted. But the single best thing for the Lucerne would be to add a 5 speed transmission. This will produce ever so slightly faster 0-60 times and also keep the gas mileage numbers up. How much could it cost, really....? Keep the old pushrod V6 even. Many potential buyers probably won't care about the dated engine design as long as the performance is satisfactory. :)
  • rake2rake2 Member Posts: 120
    I own a CXS and a Camaro SS. The CXS doesn't have the off the line acceleration I expected, but it has great acceleration from speed for usual driving conditions. Obviously not the SS acceleration, but surprisingly good acceleration when you punch it at 65. I don't really think many Lucerne owners are going to be looking to do any drag racing, though, so I believe the power is fine. Of course, I wasn't looking for it to be my hot rod, either.
  • batistabatista Member Posts: 159
    I am concerned with horsepower and torque because I don't want to be smoked by a RAV 4 with a 263HP engine that can do 0-60 in 6.3 seconds according to Car and Driver and a 07 Toyota Camry with a 3.5L 260 HP V6 which will also be a low 6.0 sec car.
    You have to keep up with the competition and I hate to lose when I need the power to pass.
  • rake2rake2 Member Posts: 120
    There is plenty of power to pass. Although it's not fast off the line, it almost feels like there's a turbo boost around 4000 rpm.
  • minarets1minarets1 Member Posts: 49
    rake!

    we i would love some pics! what color? ext/int?

    i am excited someone has a CXS....i want one
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    I am concerned with horsepower and torque because I don't want to be smoked by a RAV 4 with a 263HP engine that can do 0-60 in 6.3 seconds according to Car and Driver
    You have to keep up with the competition and I hate to lose when I need the power to pass.


    Yea, I see little trucks out there in the streets every day drag racing with Lucernes. :P
  • batistabatista Member Posts: 159
    Where I live there are a lot of city roads where 2 lanes become 1 lane. So there are idiots who like to take the side lane and pass. Who wants to drive a V8 automobile and get passed by a mini SUV with a V6. Most times I let them pass especially when I know they can beat me but other times it gets annoying.

    I know you are probably thinking why get this car if you are so concerned with power but I like large roomy cars with lots of power. Maybe a 300C is more for me.
  • sv7887sv7887 Member Posts: 351
    Hi Everyone,
    I took a look at the Lucerne at my local dealer. Everyone was right, the exterior looks much better in person. The dealer only had a base CX with cloth and a column shifter. I bet a CXL V8 or CXS would be much nicer looking inside. The basic shape of the car is really nice. I would love to see one with that Glacier Blue they show on the Lucerne page off of buick.com

    I think these Acceleration numbers are for mere bragging rights. My LS430 supposedly does 0-60 in around 5.8-6.3 seconds. I don't think I've ever needed to floor the gas pedal or drag race someone. My older LS400 has 250 HP and that is more than adequate. I can't wait for the 6 Speed Auto though. Mated to the Northstar that really ought to be something..

    Sam
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    The 6T70 transmission that GM has announced for the Saturn Aura is rated for up to 280 lb-ft of torque and 315 hp. While the northstar V8 fits into the horsepower limit, it does have 295 lb-ft of torque, so this transmission is not going to be used with the V8. It could be used with the 3800. This is the FWD transmission developed with Ford and there could be higher performance versions some time later on.

    I still think that the big FWD sedan is going to be replaced by RWD.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    The 6T70 transmission that GM has announced for the Saturn Aura is rated for up to 280 lb-ft of torque and 315 hp. While the northstar V8 fits into the horsepower limit, it does have 295 lb-ft of torque, so this transmission is not going to be used with the V8. It could be used with the 3800. This is the FWD transmission developed with Ford and there could be higher performance versions some time later on.

    Actually it could be used. They just use the powertrain computer to keep the torque down when it would be damaging to the tranny. Did this with the supercharged 3800 in the Regal GS.
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    As I understand it, the Aura will be the first to get this transmission, so the Lucerne will be somewhat later to get it, assuming that it ever does. If the FWD northstar is going to be around much longer, one would think that a VVT version would be developed. I would expect a 6T80 transmission for the northstar. I will repeat that I expect the Lucerne and DTS to become RWD sometime in the next few years.
  • rake2rake2 Member Posts: 120
    It's the same red w/ cashmere interior they used for the pics you can find on the net. Don't have any of mine, and wouldn't know how to download them anyway. Sorry.
  • rake2rake2 Member Posts: 120
    Here's a website w/ accurate photos. http://www.forbesautos.com/gallery/2006/buick/lucerne/

    Although, there is one photo from back seat toward dash in which the colors of the steering wheel and dash are much darker and deeper than actual.
  • jeff43jeff43 Member Posts: 14
    The 3800 engine is tried and true. It has been around for eons, and I would be sad to see it go. 197 horsepower seems a trifle short, but they hopefully will boost that number a little, maybe to 220.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    3800 is going away and no HP increases.
  • poncho167poncho167 Member Posts: 1,178
    It will go away in the U.S., but I am sure it will still be in use in other countries such as Argentina. In some of the South American countries, they have the tooling from GM in which they still produce some 1970 and 1980 generation automobiles.
  • poncho167poncho167 Member Posts: 1,178
    Is it really short in horsepower or are we just spoiled?

    Years back 150-175 hp were pretty common in a V8 sedan.

    The S10 Blazers 4.3 engine when released was considered very powerful, and nothing could match it. Then within a couple years it was considered sluggish. The new Trailblazer with the 275 hp inline 6 was called a screamer among other praise when it came out, now writers say it is slow with a need for more power. This goes to show that no matter what the horse power is, someone will eventually claim that it is not enough.
  • kcwolfpack59kcwolfpack59 Member Posts: 122
    Poncho, I think we are spoiled. I remember 0-60 times of V-8s in 1970s and 1980s era mid size cars being around 12 seconds. That was enough to get you out of most trouble while passing. The 1960s big block full size cars were 9-10 seconds. Now, 0-60 in 8-9 seconds is considered a little slow. My GM V-6s are in that range and their power exceeds my nerve.
  • evandroevandro Member Posts: 1,108
    It will go away in the U.S., but I am sure it will still be in use in other countries...

    Not true. GM makes European models in South America and no V6 is made locally. Older versions of the 3.1 V6 are made in China, but no 90° V6.

    The only other country where the 3.8 is made is Australia, and it's being phased out there too. The Saab 2.8 Turbo and the Alfa Romeo 3.2 direct-injection variations of the 3.6 are made in Australia.
  • jh1977jh1977 Member Posts: 40
    I read the 3800 engine will ceased production in 2008. Does anymore know if the Buick Lucerne for the 2008 model year will have the new 3.9 Liter engine (currently in the 2006 Chey Impala) as an optional engine? The 3800 engine currently in the 2006 Lucerne was a great engine for years but time has now past it by. I believe the optional V8 engine in the Buick Lucerne burns to much gasoline and is not necessary for most driving needs for the average driver. Can you car experts give me some feedback on my question and statement.
  • poncho167poncho167 Member Posts: 1,178
    There may be no V6 engines made there locally, but the 3.8 L is world renown with over 30 million units produced. Likely it will end up somewhere maybe in a Reatta or previous generation Riveria, or something else.
  • evandroevandro Member Posts: 1,108
    No, the 3.8 is largely unknown outside of the US and Australia. It's never been in any European model nor sold there officially.

    And many American models, like the Riviera and the Regatta, were never made outside the US. Most countries just cannot afford cars of that size and powertrain.

    For instance, while automatic transmissions are predominant in N. America and in Japan, they're short of a curiosity elsewhere. Mainly because elsewhere small engines are the norm and they can't spare 5 or 10HP that it takes to run such transmissions.

    Bottom line: due to different market preferences, the 3.8 is mostly an American market engine. Not that it detracts from its virtues.
  • 14871487 Member Posts: 2,407
    per a GM press release the new 6 speed auto can handle up to 300lb-ft of torque which means it can be used on the Lucerne V8. This is updated information that differs from what GM posted earlier about this tranny. Looks like every GM FWD car except the 5.3V8 equipped W cars can get the new 6 speed. The press release said the tranny will debut on the Aura and Outlook but doesn't say if it will be available on other models in calendar '06. I know the other crossovers will get it but I'm willing to bet a few other products will get it as well. Cant think of two better candidates than the Lucerne and Lacrosse.

    You can read about it on media.gm.com
  • rayainswrayainsw Member Posts: 3,191
    "per a GM press release the new 6 speed auto can handle up to 300lb-ft of torque which means it can be used on the Lucerne V8. This is updated information that differs from what GM posted earlier about this tranny. Looks like every GM FWD car except the 5.3V8 equipped W cars can get the new 6 speed."

    I looked on media.gm.com & don't see a reference - link, please?

    Thanks,
    - Ray
    One of the unfortunate ( ? ) GM 5.3L V8 drivers . .
    2022 X3 M40i
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Probably will not see the 6 speed in the Lucerne/LaCrosse on the 3.8L. It's going away soon. BUT may see it with the V8's. At 323 tq they may play with the engine control module to "detune" at certain points to not overtax the 6 speed. Did that with all the 3800 superchargers.
  • 14871487 Member Posts: 2,407
    The info is under the NY autoshow link on the right side of the gm media homepage It's under the powetrain tab.

    The Lucerne isnt perfect, but it's obvious that Edmunds didnt like the vehicle and no intention of giving it an objective review. The intent of that review was to prove to you that the Lucerne is a worse value than the Avalon and the Azera. They could care less about the Lucerne's postive features because they see it as a lame Buick and is was reviewed as such. They said the Lucerne wont do much to help the ailing brand of Buick while other magazines are saying that its the best Buick in years, maybe even decades. You do the math. Complaints about 4 speed autos and acceleration may be warrranted but the rest of that stuff is BS. Even C&D said the interior of the Lucerne was nice and that is significant considering their anti GM stance.
  • sirius2sirius2 Member Posts: 43
    I just test drove my first Buick, the Lucerne today. Very nice vehicle. It's quieter than my Honda Odyssey and leaps above my Lumina. If priced right this will be a winner, and since I live in Detroit I have to live with that "employee pricing" scam since I have no GM family members, which to me is one more reason to buy Japanese, or from an out-of-town dealer. But don't get me started on the perils of buying cars in Detroit. More importantly the Lucerne had the room, performance and refinements to make an excellent choice for anyone wanting a larger sedan.
  • rayainswrayainsw Member Posts: 3,191
    "The info is under the NY autoshow link on the right side of the gm media homepage It's under the powetrain tab. "

    Aha!
    Thanks.
    Very interesting . . .
    - Ray
    Wondering if a 6T80 will be coming . . .
    2022 X3 M40i
  • jeff43jeff43 Member Posts: 14
    How do you know this?
  • jeff43jeff43 Member Posts: 14
    I think we are spoiled because, honestly, you will see 205 HP in a Chevy Cobalt SS. I guess it just seems wierd for a full size car to have less HP than a compact, but it probably performs fine.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    3800 is well known to be on it's last manufacturing module. Only the LaCrosse/Grand Prix/Lucerne still use it as a base engine. When it is dropped is the question. Most economical thing for GM to do is hang on to it untill the 3 cars are replaced. Do not know exactly when but the W cars will probably be gone by 2009 at the latest. Once the W cars lose it the Lucerne volume will be to low to support the manufacturing facility.

    It makes no sense to up the HP on an engine that has been at 200 for years. GM is spending the money on the new engines, ie 3.5 and 3.9.

    My guess is that they will probably replace the 3800 in the Lucerne with either the 3.9 or 3.6 around '08. They may also, due to powertrain manufacturing efficiencies, drop the 3800 in 2008 for the other cars.
  • vantheman1vantheman1 Member Posts: 18
    can you explain the problem with buying a car in detroit....just curious...thanks
  • jeff43jeff43 Member Posts: 14
    From what I have read, the 3.6 is more refined than the 3.9.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Yes, but also another $1500 in price. And they both at this time have 240hp in FWD. but the 3.9 bests the 3.6 in torque. So for $1500 in price I would think most of the under $30k car buyers would go for the extra money in their pocket or a sunroof or some other feature.

    Of course in a few years the 3.6 will bump up in hp to around 270 or so (see the buick Enclave).

    I am hoping they make the 3.6 standard in the LaCrosse/Lucerne and the CTS. With today's HP war and the V8's in the Buicks and the premiumness they are going after in the Buicks I think they could take a hit in the base price. Also with the Buicks being replaced soon why develop another powertrain combo for the LaCrosse when the 3800 dies?
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    The torque is of primary importance when it comes to performance. The horsepower only tells you how much torque is left once you get the engine near the redline. Both the 3.6 DOHC V6 from the LaCrosse and the 3800 have about 220 lb-ft of torque over the power band (useful engine speed range). Note:
    3.6: http://media.gm.com/us/powertrain/en/product_services/HPT%20Library/HFV6/2006_36- - L_LY7_LaCrosse.pdf

    3800: http://media.gm.com/us/powertrain/en/product_services/HPT%20Library/90%20Deg%20V- - 6/2006_3800_L26_Buick_Lucerne.pdf

    The basic difference is that the 3800's torque drops off above 4500 RPMs, while the 3.6 is still good till 5500 RPMs. If the LaCrosse V6 goes into the Lucerne with a six speed automatic, then that would be a big improvement, otherwise, not. However, if the Lucerne got the 3.6 with CTS tuning, or better still, the 270 hp tuning, then, with the six speed automatic, one could dump the aging northstar V8. I do not expect a VVT FWD northstar to ever see production.

    CTS 3.6: http://media.gm.com/us/powertrain/en/product_services/HPT%20Library/HFV6/2006_36- - L_LY7_CTS.pdf
  • jh1977jh1977 Member Posts: 40
    From reading your message are you saying the 3800 engine provides more than adequate power in the current base Buick Lucerne? Also would GM's new 3.9 Liter engine {which is less expensive than GM's DOHC 3.6 Liter engine} which is currently in the 2006 Chevy Impala, be a more powerful engine in the base Buick Lucerne compared to the 3800 engine? Sincerely.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,132
    I don't get all the comments about the 3800. I have a leSabre with it; I don't find torque lacking and the trans is always smoooothly shifting when 3rd is needed instead of 4th. I drove from the Smokeys home today and got an indicated 34.6 mpg at 68-72 mph with a short traffic light stop off the interstate and a stop for food and a traffic backup of about 5 minutes. That's all interstate on I75 from Knoxville over the mountains to Dayton. No air conditioning until the last 70 miles.

    I haven't driven a Lucerne but I'd recommend a rental or a long tes drive to see if it doesn't serve just as well. Unless you want the hotrod torque or a quick motor and the decrease in mileage.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • jh1977jh1977 Member Posts: 40
    The 3800 engine is a good engine but it is now dated. The new Lucerne is heavier than the LeSabre. Car buyers should have in addition to the V8 engine, 3800 engine, another V6 engine to choose in the Lucerne such as GM's 3.6 or 3.9 Liter engines. Car buyers have a choice of 4 different engines in the Chrysler 300 vehicles.
This discussion has been closed.