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tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
At 20300 miles my rear pads on my 05 FWD SEL need replaced "immediately" according to the dealer. Yet inspection of the braks @ the 15K check up showed the rear brakes in the "green". Dealer won't do anything about covering costs. Ford CS was a waste of time - kept me on hold for ~10 minutes only to come back and say he could not find any TSBs and that they were a consumable covered by 12mnth/18K. 10 minutes for that? I hope he enjoyed his coffee...
Unlike others, I won't throw Ford to the wolves for this. I will negotiate hard with the dealer (and others in the area) to have the repair covered. If I am not successful I will replace the pads myself with a better quality part and keep an eye on them. I just wish Ford would come clean and admit a problem and offer a true solution. THEY have to know what is going on - hanging calipers, sticking E brake, poor material choice, whatever. Admit to it and fix it.
Leave Ford forever over this? Not likely, but I will probably shop a few brands next time instead of just heading to the blue oval. It's a shame.
CC
It would seem that there's a problem on a certain number of vehicles that most likely involves the caliper and/or parking brake mechanism. (Those are the primary parts that actuate the brakes - the pads won't drag unless something is forcing them against the rotors.)
Most likely Ford knows what the problem is - but they have decided to bandage it by putting on longer lasting pads, rather than to actually correct the underlying problem. That may or may not be an acceptable solution - each person can make their own judgement on that.
It would be great if someone here noticed their brakes dragging and immediately brought it to a brake expert to diagnose exactly what the cause was. Then they could share that info with the rest of the forum. (I know - thats asking a lot.............)
FYI - I don't currently own a FS, but I'm looking at buying one later this year to replace my Buick Rendezvous. I'm an engineer and a backyard mechanic, so I do know something about these kinds of things. I consider this brake problem to be an issue, but this alone will not prevent me from buying a FS. If you read through the forums, almost every vehicle has some common problem (yes, even Toyotas and Hondas). On the early Rendezvous, it was BCM computers, AC condensors, and wheel bearings.
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/disc-brake2.htm
I do not believe that the premature brake wear has anything to do with brake drag. It is related to Ford's use of a cheap pad material, combined with a higher than usual rear brake bias to prevent nose dive and bad luck.
The bad luck is the driver who may not realize that they should try to brake sooner.
Mark
But that doesn't explain people like me, who've only had 20% wear at 15k miles.
I still think it relates to the parking brake sticking.
And that in turn is more likely to occur in a colder climate area. My pet theory.
Not likely, since the problem is spread over multiple model years - A bad batch would be isolated to a certain range of build dates.
our 05 awd ltd has gone through 2 sets of rear pads in less than 20,000 miles. the dash info usually shows around 16.5 mpg in local driving, much lower than others here have claimed. we've had 24mpg on highway trips. of course the awd cars suffer from higher weight and extra driveline friction compared to fwd. i would like to blame binding caused by the parking brake system for the excessive wear, but i would think overheating, smell, and even smoke would be evident if that were the case. i don't know what to think. the dealer installed and paid for new pads and rotors the first time. i installed akebono ProACT Ceramic Pads the 2nd time; so far they have not produced the terrible dust the original pads left on the rear wheels.
But you need SOME mechanism to explain why the issue isn't affecting almost EVERY unit, if it's truly a "design flaw".
Obvious choices:
1) the "design flaw" has something to do with the parking brake not releasing . . thus, those who bought the vehicle with the parking brake released, and who never use it, wouldn't be affected
2) the "design flaw" only affects those who "ride the brakes hard" . . those who are more efficient users of brakes (and I definitely am, as is evidence by over 90k miles with less than 50% brake wear on my last vehicle) might simply not encounter the issue . . or, it'll affect them at 50k miles instead of 10k.
I'm sure there are others . . but you need to propose one.
as i said earlier, if the parking brake were sticking, you would have glowing hot rotors, smell, and smoke. i've never noticed anything like that. and you might then expect uneven wear. the rear wear has been even on both sides. i don't have to figure out what the problem is - ford does. and i did present another theory that i haven't seen here before - that the problem is with the front brakes, not the rear. if the fronts don't provide enough stopping power, for whatever reason, the rears will be overworked under NORMAL braking.
Could it possibly be that I drive using my brakes substantially less harshly than you and your wife do?
As to your "Front Brakes are Bad" theory, that STILL doesn't explain why I (and others) don't have the issue.
What you're describing wouldn't be called a "design defect", but a "quality control" issue.
I'm at 45K miles and it's time to change my rear brakes, but my front ones are fine. Although better off than most folks with brake problems, it still seems strange to me to have the front ones at 5mm and the rear ones at 3mm. And I've never used the parking brake since owning the car.
A 5mpg gain over 2 years of ownership is significant, not sure of your math skills but you are coming out ahead on that one every day you own it.
40000/14 = 2857gal
40000/19 = 2105gal
I'd say 750 gallons of gas is significant @ $3/gal
As for the BRAKES, it sounds like the dealer did a poor job of servicing them 3k miles ago and them covering the rotors with a "deductable" was them trying to take care of it without losing face.
Unless you have a number of other issues/failures that you are not disclosing the known brake issue and a replaced ac unit don't make a lemon. It sounds more the case you are mad hubby made you had to trade in your expedition that you "loved".
Same with mpg. If the person has historically received the EPA estimate or better with every car they've owned, then in the Freestyle they're getting 25% lower hwy mpg than the EPA estimate, they have a right to complain. My guess would be that the poor mpg is related to the premature brake wear...something might be dragging.
The AC unit covered by the extended warrantee isn't good, but even with the other issues, I wouldn't call the Freestyle a lemon because of them. Not a perfect car, but not a lemon. But you do have a right to be frustrated.
I'm not saying that.
What I'm saying is this: suppose that I routinely drive my cars with much less braking than you do.
If the design of the Freestyle is such that my braking doesn't wear out the brakes very fast, but your braking does, then that explains the problem.
So, I say, learn to drive/brake more efficiently. :P
PS: I still think it has to do with the parking brake mechanism dragging (slightly).
What were you expecting? Let's do the math. You're driving about 20,000 miles per year.
At 14 mpg in the Expedition (and assuming $2.50 gasoline), you were spending $298 / month in gasoline.
By going to the Freestyle and getting 19mpg, you reduced that to $219 / month in gasoline (a savings of $79 per month, or 27%).
Just how much savings were you expecting? Note that the MOST you could possibly save was the total of $298 per month. And even if you were to average 28mpg in the Freestyle (impossible), you would've only saved $149 per month.
If you're not happy with the savings, I'd say that your expectations were a bit too optimistic for the reality of the situation . . did you actually attempt to calculate your savings before trading?
I was not saying the brake issue was not something to be happy about, I just had my rotors turned and pads updated on my '05 due to the fact they were shot at 17k(very unacceptable). It sounds like she got something over 30k on hers while not great is still better than myself and some around here. I agree on the rear brake wear issue being out of character after so many of us are used to rears lasting 2x fronts but it seems those days are over as manufacturers are dialing in more rear bias to make the rears work harder and managing front end dive during braking. I'll take improved braking performance at the expense of rear pad life. Our VW Passat seems to have a similar thing with it but not to the extent of the FS. I got lucky our dealer was what I thought fair in that it only cost me $100 to get the rears done in light of them being gone at 17k. Free would have been better but it seems we were handled better than some around here on the boards.
As for mileage she stated her mileage was 19 mixed and I'm assuming over the 40k miles she has on the car which means she is seeing her epa numbers on the FS. Maybe she does more city than she lets on keeping her numbers lower like mine are. Maybe she has a heavy foot after driving the big and ponderous expedition she said she owned where she had to bury it just to get it to move. The FS as we have seen around here has a sweet spot in speed where it can indeed return better than epa numbers and maybe she just hasn't caught on to that yet.
As for the AC not its not good but someone has to get the bad one when ten's of thousands of them are being installed thats just the unfortunate nature of statistics, manufacturer's aren't perfect(even the vaunted toyota) as much as we expect them to be.
I'll hold to my speculation that she's just not happy hubby made her "downsize" from the much more socially accepted expedition because the other soccer mom's are asking her ford free-what, oh that's the mini-van isn't it??? she's bitter, just not because she got a lemon...
1) Those who complain the most about the lifespan of the stock Continental tires on their Freestyle are likely those who know the least about tires in general.
2) People don't seem to realize that the EPA fuel mileage figures on a vehicle's sticker are only useful as a guide for use when comparing that vehicle against another. Your driving habits and the conditions under which you drive are never going to match up exactly with the EPA's testing procedures. That's why it also says on the sticker... "Actual mileage will vary...". Only a delusional person would consider the numbers to be some sort of guarantee.
3) Most all automotive fuel now being sold in the U.S. has upwards of 10% ethanol mixed in with it. Ethanol does not have the energy in it that gasoline does. The EPA's tests are still based on 100% gasoline. That will change (finally) with the 2008 model year vehicle tests.
Bad logic as my braking style hasn't changed but my brake life has only for this car.
My logic is fine, but your reading comprehension skills might need a bit of work.
And you can keep you "supposing" to yourself...I mentioned this to illustrate the fact tha epa numbers can go both ways, in some circumstances you can actually see better that documented epa figures and 31 is significantly better than 27 for my fwd fs.
Bottom line is that the service manager at the Ford Dealer told me that a lot of the earlier year Freestyles had brake problems and were being serviced for free if brought in before about 22K miles. So for folks with rear brake problems, it’s the car and not the person, so it’s something to watch out for.
I have achieved 31 MPG as well, but it is only on pure-highway driving, at approximately 65 MPH on flat terrain.
Mixed driving is around 23.5 for me. If I forget to drive for mileage I can easily "achieve" 18 MPG around town.
My FS is a 2006 FWD.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
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Carsten