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Hyundai Sonata Hybrid

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Comments

  • vinnygvinnyg N.Y.Posts: 77
    edited December 2011
    Hi, may I suggest you contact Car Tech Dude on Hyundai Forums regarding this issue as he has personally helped out many in getting the proper repairs for their hybrids when they had little or no assistance from their dealership. He can guide them on what to do to correct any drivetrain issues you may be experiencing. You can log in and PM him and he will help you out.
    I included a link to one of the threads here:

    http://www.hyundai-forums.com/229-sonata-yf-hybrid/
    Be kind to the people you meet on the way up, because you're going to meet the same people on the way down.
  • Am feeling duped regarding gas mileage performance. Brought my 2011 Sonata Hybrid in for a service campaign that would supposedly improve gas mileage. Since then it's gotten worse. Dealership (service) says cold weather and low tires. I disagree - weather has been really mild. When I brought it in I explained that is it rarely ever in EV mode when my foot is on the gas. They said they test drove - it was in EV when it hit 55-60 mph. This morning when I drove it - again only EV when coasting and braking, not when foot on the gas. And dealership now says to expect 27-32 mpg in the winter. I feel as though their advertising is misleading.
    Anyone else having issues with gas mileage?
  • kyrptokyrpto Posts: 216
    For whatever reasons, a very small number of Sonata Hybrid drivers appear to be unable to drive the car efficiently. A look at fuelly.com bears this out as most Hyundai owners are getting mpg in the low to mid 30s. Some do even better.

    Our car’s last tankfull was 36.4 mpg calculated with the wife driving 90% on a 80 mile round trip commute. She doesn’t employ any hypermiling techniques; I do and routinely get at or over 40mpg summer or winter. Best segment ever was 50.5mpg (display) for a 75 drive back from the Blue Ridge Parkway

    The bottom line is . . . . .
    it ain’t the cars.
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Posts: 1,601
    You have to define "mild". What is mild in one part of the country is "cold" elsewhere. If you're in the north, mild at this time of year may mean the 40's. I've found (in CT) that temps around mid to low 50's have an adverse effect on MPG (no matter which car). What seems mild to people, for the time of year, doesn't mean anything to a car. 40 is 40 and 50 is 50.

    Same principle applies to a golf ball...had that discussion with golf pro last weekend. At some times of the year we may feel relatively warm at 45*, but the golf ball is still 45* and doesn't go a far as it does in the 60's or higher.
  • In this case - "mild" is indeed 30s and 40s here in the north. But the poor gas mileage started immediately after a service campaign to improve gas mileage. There was not a drastic change in the weather/temperatures. Sure would be nice if it really is a simple as the weather and temps - but I'm not buying it. Not yet anyway. Thanks for the response though - I appreciate it.
  • I have a 2011 Sonata Hybrid and am very dissatisfied with the gas mileage. I've been averaging 23-26 mpg and the last tank if gas was only 16! I called to have it looked at for the second time and they are telling me (without looking at it yet) that its the winter driving. I live in Western NY and we have barely seen winter yet!
  • shancsshancs Posts: 1
    I have been complaining to the dealership about the poor mpg ever since I bought the car. I am yet to get any help on the mpg. It is poor! I get 25-27 mpg in town and 30-31 on the hi-way, what are your readings?
  • Shybrid, my tracked measured average for 19k miles is 38mpg. I do mostly highway however I'm not light on the gas either. I don't think I've ever gotten below 30mpg even in NYC (Holland Tunnel) traffic for hours. I have dedicated snow/ice tires right now and I've lost about 5%mpg. I also haven't gotten above 40mpg since the snow tires or since it's gotten so cold up in the NE.

    The good thing about hybrids are that you'll get decent mileage no matter how you drive. With my 2010 Prius I used to get 45-55 all the time and due to the low power of that car I floored it a lot. This one obviously is a bit lower but again even with very aggressive driving I can't see myself getting less than 30mpg.

    Your numbers are definitely 5mpg too low on both sides even with less than ideal driving style. Are you sure your tires have enough pressure? Not too much extra weight in the vehicle? Car's alignment and tire balance is still good? Did you leave your seat warmers (front and back) on? AC on all the time?
  • Once my hybrid is warmed up I can get 50mpg on the highway if I am careful on a 25 mile drive, and 40 if I am not. But the first 2 minutes are always poor while it warms up.
  • I am currently getting 31.8 MPG. Live in Minnesota - this is the mildest winter I can remember as an adult. My last car - Chrysler Sebring always got better than the estimated MPG - regardless of winter or not. So I'm still not getting what I think I should. Not horrible - but not at the level that they estimated when I bought it. Someone replied to me earlier inferring that i just didn't know how to drive "economically" and another person blamed cold weather. I wonder if those people work for Hyundai.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 11,077
    If you recently considered a hybrid but decided on a fuel-efficient non-hybrid instead, please email [email protected] by Friday, February 3, 2011 to share your story.
    Please include your daytime contact information and a few words about the decision you made.

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    Need help navigating? [email protected] - or send a private message by clicking on my name.

    Share your vehicle reviews

  • I doubt they work for Hyundai... I do agree that it's difficult in my opinion for this vehicle to average much better than the advertise MPG. But it's certainly possible to get EPA ratings. To the other poster about 50mpg on highway... I an get 50 consistently on highway if I'm careful also but it's difficult to average 50mpg on a whole tank even if you do a lot of highway driving. My best average tank was about 46 but typically careful driving for a full tank would get around 40 maybe 42 or 43. With my 2010 Prius if I was careful I could get over 60mpg which is 20% over EPA consistently. I think this comes to weight and power availability... keep in mind this car does have over 200hp and is much larger than the Prius. Even when I try to drive really well... I inevitably utilize way more power than I need periodically. This is not possible for the Prius which I used to floor the pedal all the time in only to keep up with traffic or merge into crazy new york/new jersey highways.
  • kyrptokyrpto Posts: 216
    "For whatever reasons, a very small number of Sonata Hybrid drivers appear to be unable to drive the car efficiently. A look at fuelly.com bears this out as most Hyundai owners are getting mpg in the low to mid 30s. Some do even better."

    Drove 175 miles early one morning last week.
    For first two hours temp never got above 26 (F) and the last hour it never got above freezing.
    60 - 65, cruise = slightly over 37mpg.
    No hypermiling just cruising.

    Later that day drove the 175 back home w/ temp at 52 - 53.
    Got almost 40mpg on that leg.
  • Your situation is the EXACT same situation I am getting. (For a minute there I thought maybe it was my posting LOL) I live in Rhode Island. The winter has been extremely mild. I have to add more to my problems. At 2500 miles my transmission died. I was getting excellent mileage up until that point. From the time the new transmission was installed, my mileage dropped to 27/28 mpg - highway. I am not getting any answers and it is getting very frustrating.

    Cindi :(
  • kyrptokyrpto Posts: 216
    who is a member of this forum:
    http://www.hyundai-forums.com/229-sonata-yf-hybrid/

    Join that forum and send him a pm w/ your vin #.
    He has helped others get issues resolved.
    His specialty is the powertrain.
  • vinnygvinnyg N.Y.Posts: 77
    Be kind to the people you meet on the way up, because you're going to meet the same people on the way down.
  • vinnygvinnyg N.Y.Posts: 77
    On Ebay there is a spare tire kit as well:

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/221067819435?hlp=false
    Be kind to the people you meet on the way up, because you're going to meet the same people on the way down.
  • vinnygvinnyg N.Y.Posts: 77
    Here's what all of us 2011-2012 Sonata Hybrid owner's have been waiting for:

    13-FL-004
    HEV MULTI-ECU UPDATE – VERSION 2
    Description:
    This bulletin provides information related to a software update of the following controllers: ECM/TCM/HCU/MCU/AHB/OPU by GDS Event#302, and BMS by Event#303.
    This ECU Update will refine vehicle drivability, HEV transaxle shifts, and cruise control.
    Applicable Vehicles: 2011-2012MY SONATA (YF) 2.4L Hybrid Electric Vehicle (HEV)
    In order to get this you need to complaign about hesitation and jerking situations. HSH owners who have had this done report Hyundai has fixed their problems.
    This TSB will make your hybrid's acceleration much smoother, especially during the cold first start up of the day.
    You must complain to your dealer about the jerkiness and hesitation in order for them to install this repair. It personally has helped me and many others with drivability issues.
    Be kind to the people you meet on the way up, because you're going to meet the same people on the way down.
  • srcoopersrcooper Posts: 3
    Thank you for sharing this information!
  • vinnygvinnyg N.Y.Posts: 77
    and real world driving experiences after the updates have been installed, you can look here:

    http://www.hyundai-forums.com/229-sonata-yf-hybrid/162191-new-multi-ecu-update.h- tml
    Be kind to the people you meet on the way up, because you're going to meet the same people on the way down.
  • vinnygvinnyg N.Y.Posts: 77
    Just want to bump this for all 2011-2012 Sonata Hybrid owners who have not had the latest TSB 13-FL-004 performed. It enhances drivability and stops the cold start jerkiness and hesitation.
    You have to actually complain about those symptoms to the dealer to have this installed, as it is not a recall, but a TSB.
    Be kind to the people you meet on the way up, because you're going to meet the same people on the way down.
  • kyrptokyrpto Posts: 216
    Upgrades for 2013 Sonata Hybrids:

    1. More powerful electric motor with output up from 30 kw on 2011- 2012 to 35 kw on the 2013s.
    More torque.

    2. Smaller yet more powerful lithium-polymer battery pack that ups the battery discharge power significantly from 34 kw to 47 kw on the 2013 model.
    More power.

    3. Updated Hybrid Starter Generator from 8.5 kW to 10.5 kW of capacity to provide more charging capacity and seamless electric starts.
    Smoother.

    Hyundai also improved the hybrid system clutch control, vehicle response by throttle tuning, as well as optimizing regenerative braking shift pattern, and decreasing friction in the compact six-speed transmission.
  • srcoopersrcooper Posts: 3
    I got it installed three weeks ago - it makes a difference! Thanks for sharing this info!!!!!
  • vinnygvinnyg N.Y.Posts: 77
    I'm glad it helped you. Hopefully many more hybrid owners will see this and get the TSB installed on their cars. It makes a world of difference.
    Be kind to the people you meet on the way up, because you're going to meet the same people on the way down.
  • kyrptokyrpto Posts: 216
    Oh, don’t forget the lifetime warranty on the advanced lithium polymer battery pack and Hyundai’s 100,000 mile/10 year power train warranty.

    Both lead the industry.
  • kyrptokyrpto Posts: 216
    The Sonata hybrid has unique mirror mounted turn signals, chrome side moldings, different front fascia, more aero rear, a different decklid, hybrid specific LED running and brake lights, and unique fog lights.
  • kyrptokyrpto Posts: 216
    The Hyundai hybrid system’s rapid battery charge up and discharge have some similarities with recent Formula 1 Racing technology.

    The introduction of the Kinetic Energy Recovery System that will eventually make every future Formula One race car a hybrid began in ’09.

    F1 teams may use KERS to draw 60 Kw from the rear axle, store that energy and reuse it by pushing a 'boost' button. Basically the system uses regeneration to collect and store energy during braking.

    The system allows the drivers to use 60 Kw (82 hp) for 6.6 seconds per lap. The system is fairly conventional, using a single 60 Kw liquid cooled brushless direct current motor / generator unit. The motor is attached to the front of the 2.4 liter V8 and driven by a reduction gear off the crankshaft.

    Also included in the system is a KERS control unit, separate from the Microsoft supplied FIA engine control unit. The battery pack is mounted at the bottom of the fuel cell and in the case of Ferrari is supplied by French Li-ion battery maker Saft.
  • kyrptokyrpto Posts: 216
    edited August 2013
    Yep, I just figure that with all these F1 race cars in such a high heat environment, sometimes even wrecknïg and never a mention of a Lithium battery pac doing anything abnormal, us civilian hybrid drivers are probably safe.

    I remember early in the Toyotas hybrid rollout, and especially after the Highlander Hybrids were introduced, when rumors of rescue personnel being killed by hybrid components were common.

    A Li-Polymer type battery is used for the Sonata Hybrid.
    The basic function of the battery system is to store, in chemical form, electric energy obtained either from the engine or regeneration and supply the stored energy as needed.
    Additionally, it has to manage input and output power based on the state-of-charge (SOC). The BMS (battery management system) performs accurate estimations of battery status and controls the temperature appropriately.

    Compared to conventional first gen NiMH batteries for hybrids, the Li-Polymer type battery of the Sonata Hybrid has a better performance in the power/energy density by weight and volume, self-discharge rate, life cycle, cold weather characteristics, SOC estimation etc.

    http://www.atz-worldwide.com/index.php?mode=textansicht&articleKey=atzw-010-0462- - -7&issueKey=2&volumeKey=2011&smart42SID=s292et2tk0rsnjgi81nqp0c9r3&smart42SID=s2- - 92et2tk0rsnjgi81nqp0c9r3
  • vinnygvinnyg N.Y.Posts: 77
    edited August 2013
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Description: This bulletin describes the procedure to replace the rear lower control arms on some Sonata (YF), Sonata Hybrid (YF HEV), and Azera (HG) vehicles.
    Applicable Vehicles: SONATA (YF), SONATA HYBRID (YF HEV) AZERA (HG).
    YF Sonata (MY 2011, 2012, 2013)
    16" wheel vehicles: Job #1 to Jan 7, 2011
    17/18" wheel vehicles: Job #1 to April 5, 2012
    YF HEV Sonata Hybrid (MY 2011 AND 2012)
    Job #1 to April 4, 2012
    HG Azera (MY 2012)
    Job #1 to April 4, 2012
    Area: Salt belt states, fleet, and regional company vehicles.
    USA salt belt areas: Connecticut, Delaware, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Vermont, West Virginia, Wisconsin, and the District of Columbia.
    Be kind to the people you meet on the way up, because you're going to meet the same people on the way down.
  • vinnygvinnyg N.Y.Posts: 77
    DESCRIPTION: On some 2012~2013 Sonata (YF) and 2012 Sonata Hybrid (YF-HEV) vehicles with panoramic sunroof, a slight creaking or rattle noise in the roof may be heard. If the source of the noise is around the roof area on top of the B-pillar, follow the procedure outlined in this bulletin to eliminate the noise.
    This basically uses "acoustic felt" and Loctite to secure the sunroof cross-members to stop the creaking.
    GROUP
    NUMBER
    BODY (Interior & Exterior)
    13-BD-002
    DATE
    MODEL
    AUGUST 2013
    2012 ¡V 2013 SONATA
    (YF & YF-HEV)
    SONATA PANORAMIC SUNROOF NOISE
    Applicable Vehicles:
    MY12~13 SONATA equipped with panoramic sunroof
    „h Produced from June 1, 2011 to August 7, 2013
    MY12 SONATA HEV
    „h Produced from June 1, 2011 to May 1, 2012
    Be kind to the people you meet on the way up, because you're going to meet the same people on the way down.
  • vinnygvinnyg N.Y.Posts: 77

    Another bump for all 2011-2012 Sonata Hybrid owners who have not had the latest TSB 13-FL-004 performed. It enhances drivability and stops the cold start jerkiness and hesitation.
    You have to actually complain about those symptoms to the dealer to have this installed, as it is not a recall, but a TSB.

    Be kind to the people you meet on the way up, because you're going to meet the same people on the way down.
  • just_focusjust_focus CincinnatiPosts: 53

    My wife has a 2012 Sonata 2.4 Limited and gets 37mpg on the highway all the time. I am not sure what the advantage of the Sonata hybrid is?

  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Pennsylvania Furnace, PAPosts: 9,281

    @just_focus said:
    My wife has a 2012 Sonata 2.4 Limited and gets 37mpg on the highway all the time. I am not sure what the advantage of the Sonata hybrid is?

    Just as a general observation, the hybrid will have a larger effect on mileage during city/stop & go driving since the engine will be shut down more often. On the highway, I assume that individual driving styles & conditions will play more into how often the ICE shuts down.

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  • usnrusnr Posts: 3

    I had the update performed in November and notice immediate improvement initially. As the weather began getting colder the performance and operating characteristics began to deteriorate. Has anyone noticed any cold related symptoms?

    When it is cold and I first start the car the, gas engine runs for several minutes even with a 1/2 to 3/4 charge on the Batt, at stop lights and going down it is still running. When it does finally switch to Batt, the Inst MPG shows 25 MPG because the gas engine is still running.The first couple of times you breathe on the accelerator the engine races.I have even had the engine restart by itself after turning it off.

    When the weather is below freezing this may go on for the entire trip (half hour or more). Now that we are back in the 40's the symptoms seem to last only 5 or 10 mins. The dealer says that this is normal on start up for the engine to run for a few mins until the engine warms up.I drove about 30 miles tonight and watched the temp gauge settle in at just under 50% and the car ran normal. When I started up to make the return trip I noted that the temp gauge was barely off of cold, maybe 5% off cold. The gas engine did not start and I drove about 1/2 mile on Batt.

    The entire return trip was freeway and normal. MPG appeared normal, and at 70 mph I made it home with 39 MPG indicated which is pretty typical, but actually computes to something closer to 37. Never gotten much better on the freeway since new and city is typically somewhere between 27 and 30. Any comparisons out there?.

  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Pennsylvania Furnace, PAPosts: 9,281

    Cold weather and winter blends of fuels will affect your mileage. The cold weather is probably causing the engine to run more to get the engine up to operating temperature. I would imagine that in a hybrid with the engine shutting down periodically, it would take a bit longer for the engine temp to come up compared to a non-hybrid.

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  • usnrusnr Posts: 3

    I am waiting for the store to get another hybrid in and I want to see if the engine runs on startup. The mechanic thought that the engine was running to get up to temp to improve emissions. Well that strikes me as strange. If I have a full battery, would it not make more sense and less emissions to run on Battery longer? I can't believe that running on gas for 5 to 15 mins provides fewer emissions than running intermittently.

  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Pennsylvania Furnace, PAPosts: 9,281

    @usnr said:
    I am waiting for the store to get another hybrid in and I want to see if the engine runs on startup. The mechanic thought that the engine was running to get up to temp to improve emissions. Well that strikes me as strange. If I have a full battery, would it not make more sense and less emissions to run on Battery longer? I can't believe that running on gas for 5 to 15 mins provides fewer emissions than running intermittently.

    The engine runs more efficiently at operating temperature, and I assume that the sooner it gets there, the better. It does seem a little counter intuitive, but take it to an extreme to illustrate. If the engine never got up to temp, it would always be operating less efficiently than it should. If over the course of a day, the engine was going to run for an hour during your driving, the 5 to 15 minutes of running would "set up" the other 45 - 55 minutes of running efficiently. If the engine didn't warm up, the entire hour would be using more gas and creating more emmissions than it should.

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  • stevedebistevedebi LAPosts: 4,098
    edited March 2014

    @usnr said:
    I am waiting for the store to get another hybrid in and I want to see if the engine runs on startup. The mechanic thought that the engine was running to get up to temp to improve emissions. Well that strikes me as strange. If I have a full battery, would it not make more sense and less emissions to run on Battery longer? I can't believe that running on gas for 5 to 15 mins provides fewer emissions than running intermittently.

    The EPA requires that the catalytic converter be hot enough to reduce emissions. If the cat never warmed up, the emissions would be wrong (it depends on a LOT of heat to work). This has always been an issue to me with my FEH; if I want to move it from the front of the house to the back, it SHOULD never have to run the engine - but it always runs.

    If the engine is already warm, my FEH will shut off after a few seconds.

    EDIT: My FEH is a 2008; there was an update to the Escape for 2009 and later (but I think they also work that way). From what I have read, the Toyota HSD system will startup on battery if the engine was previously warm, and uses a thermos style container to hold hot engine coolant to help keep everything up to temperature faster.

  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Pennsylvania Furnace, PAPosts: 9,281

    What stevedebi said B)

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  • usnrusnr Posts: 3

    I cannot believe that no one else has noticed the problem with the engine running on start up. Before the update, my Sonata would operate on battery whether hot or cold and the engine would not start until the battery would deplete down to about 2/5's charge. I cannot see how having the engine running at all can improve the emissions output. If I can drive all the way to the local 7/11 on battery (mostly down hill) it makes no sense to start the engine. I can't even maneuver in a parking lot without the engine on if it is cold out.

    I must have a component problem if my hybrid is operating differently from others. To me it does not make sense for my hybrid to run on gas at a stoplight when a gas engine car will shut off at the same light. This happens in winter weather after half an hour of operation. Except for the frustration of backing out of my garage with the engine running when I have 3/4 battery indicated, which will only last for 5 min now that the temp is heading for 50 degrees out, I will be ok through the Summer, but come next Winter I am going to get real grumpy again.

    Hopefuly someone out there has some solution come to mind before it gets cold again. Oh yeah and the engine racing for a couple of seconds the first time you touch the accelerator is getting old fast. Are you all sure that this is normal? Are you all having the same drive characteristics?

  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Pennsylvania Furnace, PAPosts: 9,281

    Catalytic converters have to be HOT to do their job of burning off pollutants. Engines run more efficiently once they've come up to operating temperature. The thermostat in the coolant system stays closed and keeps coolant from going to the radiator until the engine temp reaches a certain level. And when it's cold out, it takes longer for the catalytic converter to heat up and the thermostat to open. Combustion in the engine is the source of the heat. When it's colder, it makes sense that a hybrid's engine would run longer until everything is up to efficient operating temperature.

    The update obviously changed the way your hybrid operated during cold weather months, but I'd bet that the net result is lower emissions and better mileage in the cold weather than you would have had without the update.

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  • I own a 2012 Sonota Hybrid Limited. I am currently getting 24mpg in city driving. I have done all of the service upgrades recommended by this forum and it's readers. I met with a field rep today to discuss the poor mileage. He told me as long as I get 23mpg or better Hyundai won't do anything for me. I have spent numerous hours on the phone with Hyundai and several trips to dealerships without any effect. Sorry, that is not good enough...this is the third Hyundai we have purchased since 2010. One would think Hyundai would value me as a customer. Apparently not. Too bad....I like the car other than the mileage. Going forward it will be my mission to let as many people know that Hyundai does not stand behind their product or their customers. Unfortunately, due to my lease, I can't sell the car without a loss. As soon as I am able I will sell the car and NEVER again buy a Hyundai or Kia vehicle.
    OKAY....I am done with my rant.............

  • stevedebistevedebi LAPosts: 4,098

    @badsaturn said:
    I own a 2012 Sonota Hybrid Limited. I am currently getting 24mpg in city driving. I have done all of the service upgrades recommended by this forum and it's readers. I met with a field rep today to discuss the poor mileage. He told me as long as I get 23mpg or better Hyundai won't do anything for me. I have spent numerous hours on the phone with Hyundai and several trips to dealerships without any effect. Sorry, that is not good enough...this is the third Hyundai we have purchased since 2010. One would think Hyundai would value me as a customer. Apparently not. Too bad....I like the car other than the mileage. Going forward it will be my mission to let as many people know that Hyundai does not stand behind their product or their customers. Unfortunately, due to my lease, I can't sell the car without a loss. As soon as I am able I will sell the car and NEVER again buy a Hyundai or Kia vehicle.
    OKAY....I am done with my rant.............

    24 mpg! That is astonishing. I get 29 on my AWD Ford Escape Hybrid in town. Something is wrong there.

  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Pennsylvania Furnace, PAPosts: 9,281

    24 does seem far enough outside of the fueleconomy.gov numbers that something might be amiss.
    "Your mileage may vary" does cover a lot of ground. Note that at least one person is reporting 27, so I sort of understand why their threshold might be "we'll act at 23 MPG" (about 15% lower than that low report) , but the unofficial average people are reporting is 34.4 mpg.

    Sure seems like something is going on.

    Just checking... are you calculating the mileage by filling up, driving a decent portion of the tank, filling up again, and calculating miles driven divided by gallons? Or are you relying on an onboard mileage calculator? You can only know what you're mileage is for certain by doing the math! (It's sort of like how I don't rely on the gas gauge to let me know how full my tank is. I know how far I can go on a full tank by using the trip odometer. Much more accurate)

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  • zejoruzejoru Posts: 1

    I bought a Sonata Hybrid July 7, 2011 and went through a recall Oct 26, 2011. 2013 I could not start the car, I live in CA towed it in and dealer said their system found nothing wrong however their electronic system activated the car automatically when it came on the lot. July 30,2014 we were about to go out and the car died in the intersection only a few feet from the house. Return car home it would not go up the little driveway so we had the car towed.
    Dealer said they did an update called EVEN 303 & 302 PER TSB whatever that means. Dealer said it had to update the brain. That sound weird and dangerous if a car need that and dies on you.

    Gas mileage. As the original owner I received a letter from Corp stating to get the mileage driven register by the dealer and then it is submitted to Corp. Once registered Corp send a Debit card. I got about $43.09 based on starting at 14 miles, ending at 12,187. I just register again today 7/31/2014 with 24,000. I hope this help some of you.

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