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good 8 year or 80,000 miles but the battery didn't die just like that stared with
a hybrid warning i drove the car for about to week before taking it to the dealer and they told me that the battery cell weren't good I had to wait 2 month to get it repair because it was in back order.
2007 probably averages around 32 now--- 90% city
2012 first results are around 37... But we did get 49.2 this morning on a 12 mile run in the city watching how we drove.
So mileage is all over the place depending on how one drives.. But that is the beauty of hybrid.
You want some get up and go, it will do it at a cost like all other cars- Eats gas
You want good MPG , drive it like a baby
Your choice !!
our 2007 has never seen the shop other than for oil changes every 5k miles! I expect the 2012 to be no different except it uses 0 w 20 synthetic oil so now they go 10k miles between changes..
I'm going to schedule a service appointment for this, dealer wants it all day to have a Master Tech check it out. When I suggested it might be a 2011 engine I could see I struck a nerve with him. Is it possible my 2012 made it out of the factory with a 2011 engine?
I can't explain the mpg's, I'm 67 and I don't drive with a heavy foot.
Questions:
1) Is the TCH warranty for the BP and the ECU given in the above correct (8 yrs and/or 100K mi)? If not what is it?
2) What are the out of pocket replacement costs (parts and labor) for the BP and ECU at a Toyota DLR?
3) What is the usual (and range) longevity for the BP and ECU for the TCH and Prius?
Your experience and comments would be helpful and appreciated.
Thank you.
It Ain't Happnin.
I have owned a 2007 TCH since June 2006 (almost 7 years, wow !!) and I can tell you that cold weather negative affects hybrids, as well as most non-hybrid cars.
Short trips don't get the catalytic converter warmed up enough, and the HSD system in the Toyota hybrids will not function at full efficiency until the engine is warmed up well.
You can Google the myriad of reasons why cold weather kills MPG, but in hybrids it's more of a problem. You just have to deal with it.
Enjoy the year-round AVERAGE MPG more, and worry less about cold weather MPG.
Happy Hybriding !!!
I first purchased my 2012 XLE Hybrid on Dec. 31st 2012. It had 100 miles on it. I filled it up like 4 times since I bought it. The first 2 tankfuls when I filled up showed a cruising range of 610-620 miles; give or take. The next two showed around 521. On fueleconomy's website it shows a full tank mileage at 612 which is right on with my first couple fill-ups.
I called my Toyota service guy and he said it could be many things--the car learning my driving habits and gas companies starting to switch to the non-winter blend of gas. I know cold weather affects mpg, but the weather hasn't gotten that much colder from Dec. to now here in Chicago. When I did the math on my last fill up, my mpg coincides with the 521 range so I guess it is correct. It just seems like such a dramatic drop in range from the first two fill-ups.
Remember this, I live in the hills and mountains. We had a 290 mile plus trip, 3 interstates, up steep and rolling grades. We left at 7 AM for a training appointment in Connecticut.
At the end of the day, I had achieved 37.6 mpg on the "liar" meter. Tank was reading roughly half.
I filled the car at 510 miles, and put 13.4 gallons in it. I typically fill after the shutoff, which in this case was an extra .7 gallons.
On the way back, it's more uphill and steeper grades, and I was in more of a hurry to get home. The end reading at my driveway was 36.7 mpg.
My driving style is fast, but conservative on gas. On the way down I went 70/75. On the way back I went 80/85, down to 70 uphill.
Now tell me about the EPA stickers and how cars react. I didn't baby it, but I don't drive like a dead weight either. I have no problem getting 36 combined out of this old car at all. There is one company who's cars I have driven where the spa ratings are so off as to be pretty ridiculous, total fabrications actually.
I tire of the "you need to know how to drive" excuses. Yes, many people keep their foot on the gas too much. But not testers that are trying to achieve a figure and due their best to practice it.
The new Camry Hybrid should be doing much better than this car, especially in the around town loops. Again, no problem meeting or exceeding their sticker ratings. Only one brand consistently fails by a huge margin to equal their epa ratings. (that I know of).
There is a definitive contrast in both the tone and the MPG reports this year versus the previous SIX years on the Camry Hybrids. There is also a huge difference between the tone and MPG reports on the Ford hybrid forums this year compared with previous years. But there is one thing that makes sense. People are in fact buying a tons of Fusion and CMax hybrids because of the 47/47/47 sticker ratings. As always, your mileage may vary
As I probably posted here before (too lazy to research it so forgive me if I'm being redundant) I was in the market for the 47/47/47 Ford but man, it was so uncomfortable to drive. From the huge side pillars to the center console to the radio/nav unit. I love almost everything about my Camry (sunglass holder is useless and the inside moon roof cover is cheap and there's no tray in the armrest) and I would GLADLY trade the few mpg difference for the comfort of my XLE. Field of view is great, sound system is fantastic, ride is great, mpg's are great, etc. etc.
On another note, my front windshield, besides the 6" down from the top, seems like it has no tint whatsoever. I look at other cars and the windshields seem to have at least a little tint to them. My looks too clear. Anyone else notice this? Or is it just me? I know you can't tint your windshields, but it seems others come a little darker from the factory.
Toyota has not replied to ANY of our queries and has not offered any advice or recourse for a RECALL or CAL. This decent thing for a ONCE GREAT corporation would be to admit their faulty product line and reboot on behalf of all the customers. We chose Toyota on this purchase and are extremely disappointed and wish we had our 2001 Solora back, because it consistently achieved 28_mpg in 12+ years of ownership.
There could be something wrong who knows. but I'd suspect driver problems as well. My current tank on my Prius V is 42.5. Nothing special for driving, learn to coat (as people should learn with all cars), prepare for stop lights, and take your foot off the gas for awhile when you don't have to be pushing. If I can get 38/39 out of our 2007, you can certainly get more out of the new one.
I don't envy the dealers.
And therein lies the rub and raises what may be the biggest question you should be asking "What are my driving conditions?" For example my old Scion xB gets wildly different mileage results DEPENDING ON THE DRIVING CONDITIONS. I once took a long roadtrip in moderate weather on a long highway and I couldn't believe I got 40MPH on a car that usually gets 30MPH Tops. And by even further comparison when I drive my xB around town a lot I'm lucky to get 25MPH. That is a huge difference and if you look at it objectively it MAKES PERFECT SENSE.
And then the next biggest question I should be asking myself is "How much is this going to cost me?" Since right now I drive around 10,000 miles a year I don't think the difference between a 35-40MPG car vs. a 25-30MPG car is going to cost me more than 500-600 a year. Maybe it's best to look at which car is better to drive and more importantly "how much does this new car cost?" If the 25-30MPG car is 5K less than it certainly looks very attractive.
I guess to go further we have to go to how much is the car?, how much is the gas mileage?, how much is the insurance?, how much is the sales tax?, how much is the resale? When you consider all these factors then you can plug in all the numbers and figure out how much the car will cost you yearly, every five years, or whatever amount of years you want to calculate for.
In the end, I'm thinking if the TCH has a few drawbacks, is moderately expensive, and PROBABLY DOES NOT GET 40MPH REGULARLY, it won't save you much money and then it's not all that special of a car ..UNLESS YOU JUST LOVE IT ANYWAY!
So maybe we shouldn't just obsess over gas mileage..especially since we're probably not going to get what we want/expect. Most cars are about the same, they usually get around 20-25, other cars may get 30-35 and some rare cases get more than that..but they are very rare and most have sacrificed a lot to get those holy grail numbers.
Me? I'm just not going to worry over 500-600 dollars on gas. Maybe a better way to put it is I'm not going to pay a premium on a car that isn't exactly what I want and isn't going to save me as much money as I want.
YMMV.
Bottom line for me as an EE is this: If the battery looses its ability to take a heavy charge while going down a hill, then it will not be there to return the energy to the drive train on the way up the next hill.
So when gas mileage starts coming down somewhere down the road, I would suspect the Bat is losing the ability to take a fast (Rated) charge verses capacity - two different parameters.
In ECO, the throttle response is soften, the AC system is targeted higher and the whole vehicle is a different character. Very occasionally are we able to get into EV mode. The drive to work is very short at about three and a half miles, so the engine does not really get totally warmed up while on city streets.
In conclusion, the people that posted in January, February and March are using "winter fuel", which is lower in actual BTUs but does have a better, flame point for lower temperature than normal fuel. When "summer fuel" arrives, everyone's MPG's goes up along with the price of fuel. When the temp drops again later this year you will see a drop in fuel economy.
My wife loves the way the TCH XLE handles and drives with fuel economy coming in third place. Compared to her RAV4, which got 22 mpg uphill, downhill, loaded or not this is a great improvement. Going from that anything is an improvement.
This is our third hybrid, we got our daughter a 2010 TCH. It has been getting 33 mpg over the past year and I drive my 2004 Prius which gets 42 mpg in the real world average. Besides fuel economy, we like the fact that we can go 10,000 miles between oil changes with synthetic oil. These cars do not break, they simply go when we want and are absolutely problem free. Just think of the fuel that I have saved over the past nine years. It really saved my money and it did not go to the fuel producers. Don't let the winter fuel economy worry anyone, it makes up for it in the summer.
Could be something else, but I'd check the brake caliper first.
Could that mean it still has 5 gallons of reserve? Thats a bunch.
Computer said it got 45.7 MPG. Actual came out to be 44 mpg.
Mostly surburban driving and on Hwy trip = 200 miles.
At fillup, it said the range would be 661 miles.
At 44 mpg and 17 gallons, the actual range to empty would be 748.
So the difference of 87 miles means that at 44mpg, the range readout reads zero when you have 2 gallons of fuel left in the tank, more or less.
In the next 188 mile trip, I averaged 48 on the read out, but had kind of a scare. I Climbed a 1000 ft grade in 4.5 miles. I made a few stops at the top and started back down the back side of the mountain (where the grade was not so bad but still a 1000 foot drop. The MPG readout (since car started) said 99. I notice that the engine had shut down and I was on Batt only and the Batt charge kept dropping even well after I left the mountain. I looked for a malfunction indicator - none. I looked to see if I had somehow gotten into EV mode - No.
Thought I lost a generator or something. Eventually 5 miles from the mountains, the engine started back up and the MPG started falling thru 88 mpg and by the time I got home 80 miles later it indicated 48 mpg and the batt was charged. I found that strange that it was using batt alone so long after climbing a 1000 feet up a 2000 foot mountain. Not what I expected the progammers software to do in that situation. Odometer was just passing 1000 mile at the time.
I can't believe that either. Here is something interesting.
I get 39 going to the store 5 miles away in the suburbs.
I get 51 coming home. Very consistent - Why?
Answer: the engine is stone cold going and has to choke the engine.
The engine is hot at leaving the store.
Result: Better gas mileage. MY max on a long hop home was 77 mpg.
It all averages out to about 44 for me.
I keep my car in a semi-heated garage because it is on a continuous slab and the heat is conducted to the garage floor from the house and the garage door is insulated. The winter temp never drops below 45.
So I'm expecting lower MPG in January, but not that low. Time will tell.
Since 2007, memory got cheaper and Toyota Software became more sophisticated. Thus, the EPA mileage took a jump upward to what it now is.
The 2013 is actually cycling the traction batt about once a week where it forces the system into batt only mode and MPG goes way up into the 60s area. Then the batt runs down, the engine comes back on and the MPG starts falling and the batt re-charges. NO I did not hit the Batt only mode switch. I've seen this a bunch of times and thought I had a problem.
Yes a lot of hot or cold weather will drop your MPG.
Good and bad:
Bad - short trips in cold weather in a hybrid will leave your engine operating below optimum operating temp too long and lead to carbon build up, etc.
Good - I find myself driving safer because I do not try to beat lights where I know I'll be sitting for 3 minutes waiting and waiting, because I know that I'm not burning gas sitting at the light.
Note: true the older Camries has a rough idle when parked at a light with the trans in Drive. My recient cars don't seem to do that probably because there is less resistance in the fluid connection between the engine and the drive train so the trans is not pulling in engine torque (my guess).
They have a decent passing gear. MPG is in the 40s if you are dogging it and mid 30s if you are a speed demon.
The 13 Hybrid has a variable transmission. It only shine in city and suburban driving. MPG is unbeatable and that is where I like it.
But when it comes to touring the mountains and rural counties with congested two-lane roads, I leave the Hybrid in the garage and go with the 6-speed 2010.
Both are designed for different driving. Not just my opinion. I took the Hybrid up to Sewanee and back. It was ok, but why run up miles on a very expensive machine when you can get better performance with the much cheaper models.
Good question, right?
Also, since the just released 2014 Honda Accord Hybrid (link: link title) has 'knocked it out of the park' in hybrid technology and real world mpg performance rivaling that of the Prius, with the new Honda Accord Hybrid getting up to 50/45 mpg #'s, will Toyota make any hybrid power-plant/technology changes to the 2014 Camry hybrid (or do an early release of the 2015 Camry and 2015 Camry hybrid) to address the challenge by Honda's Accord Hybrid in their upcoming redo of the Camry???
Your thoughts and comments are welcome.
Jake
I'll pass on most of their stated specifications for now.
Alex Dykes is a very thorough, honest and forthright auto journalist/reviewer who has recently reviewed most of the cars in this midsize hybrid segment, and has some interesting observations and commentary in his print and especially video reviews. If you have the time, I think you will enjoy them and learn from them as I have. While Alex's 2012 TCH review is a bit cursory (and the audio is a bit subpar and video shake is a bit annoying) his other reviews are much more polished and you can glean much of the hybrid tech mpg #'s for the TCH from his reviews of the 2013 Avalon and 2013 Lexus ES 300h, since these other Toyota hybrid products have virtually the same hybrid tech and power-plants/drive-trains; they just have a bit more lux and higher cost for that lux. The following links should help you get a better appreciation of how the hybrid technology is changing/evolving and what Toyota should do to regain it's lead, which it appears to have lost. To watch the excellent video reviews, click on the play button of one of the images in the print reviews:
2012 Camry Hybrid link: link title
2013 Avalon and 2013 Avalon Hybrid link: link title
2013 Lexus ES 300h link: link title
2013 Ford Fusion Hybrid link: link title
2014 Honda Accord Hybrid link: link title
BTW, I currently own a 2010 Highlander AWD LTD, and like it a lot, but would not replace it with a hybrid Highlander since the price differential b/n the non-hybrid and hybrid HL is outrageous @ $7-8 k and would take 9-11 yrs to break even since the real world mpg gain in a HL hybrid is really only ~ 5 mpg (Toyota says 28 mpg for the HLH, but real world #'s listed on fueleconomy.gov and fuelly.com is ~ 25 mpg, and my combined mpg for my 2010 HL AWD 6 cyl is 20-21 mpg), assuming the price of gas stays below ~ $4/gal which it may do in light of the fact of all the new oil-shale finds/development in the USA and Canada. I also have owned several non-hybrid Camry's over the years, and when the cost differential in that hybrid over a non-hybrid is only ~ $1750, one can break even in about 4-5 years for the extra hybrid cost, which makes more economic sense. I plan to buy a midsize hybrid sedan in the next 1-2 yrs (in addition to my HL SUV), which is why I welcome the competition by Honda vs Toyota and the other mfgs. Competition is good because we the consumers are the ultimate benefactors with better and cheaper (usually) products.
Your thoughts and comments are welcome.
Jake
Every year on average, MPG goes up in the H-Line. Compare the 07 Toyota Camry to the 13. Big difference! Next year, Every car company can and has plans on beating the best one out there today. You buy a car today, and next year it will be obsolete electronically and technology - simple fact!
Point Two: Once you fake a number on me, I don't ever come back. It's a red flag and that's that.
Point Three: Ford has 40+ cars in the CR "Cars to be avoided" class due to screw-ups in the model year of that line. GM is even worse. Toyota has only "ONE".
I'm told the Impala is now a fantastic car. My answer; I would not be caught driving one because I would feel like people think I'm stupid for giving another chance to a time-proven failure. Otherwise, GM and Honda may have the best cars for the moment, but when you go to sell one you may be stuck with the same old Mfg's reputation they deserved in the past. People really don't forget that kind of thing, unfortunately. Trust and Time-proven Success are hard to beat when you go to sell a car. I sold my last Toyota in less than one day on Craigs list. I wasn't even completely ready to sell it so I started high to give me some feedback and it was gone the same day and I had to go looking for a new car the next day.
It's all about your comfort zone, Jake. I don't fault you for having a different perspective. That is what makes car companies try to stay out front.
Remember the transistor AM radio back in 1961 - it sold the car.
Les
How long will it be before Toyota's Camry hybrid ups its game to better compete with the Accord Hybrid (performance) and Ford Fusion Hybrid (style): 2014 or 2016? Since the Camry, Accord and Fusion are on five year (complete) refresh/redesign cycles, and usually have a mild 'mid-cycle' refresh the 4th of the five year cycle, the 2015 Camry would be the 'mid-cycle' refresh and the 2017 Camry is when the next generation Camry is introduced, will we need to wait 'til Q2/Q3 2016 for the 2017 TCH for significant real world MPG #'s improvements? My best guess is that we will see significant TCH performance and styling improvements in Q2/Q3 2014 for the 2015 TCH model.
Jake
What is the warrantee on that?
And, if you happen to know, what drives the power brakes in both the Honda and the Toyota? They can't be taking the vacuum off the engine since it is not running when the brakes are applied?
Thanks from Les
It seems after reading all this, the average driver can expect between 38-42 on average blended driving. I always get a kick out of those that say they can get 61mpg! 99mbpg!!!....hilarious....drive a tankful, take ODO and divide by gas purchased. That's what you got. All those inflated numbers are based on: : "I got up to speed quickly, put the car in neutral, gliding down a mountain, with full sails aloft, while waving my arms and nudging the car in my seat, after polishing my car to a mirror shine to include the windows, tires pumped up to 50psi, 1 gallon of gas in the tank, maybe less....blah blah blah....no speedy, you didn't really get 61....you were mere gliding and burning no fuel until you rolled to a stop. Hardly an accurate reading....also, the car is taking a snapshot when you see those hallucinatory readings...not accurate. Again, fill the tank, drive it until empty, fill it and divide by the miles driven when you RESET the tripometer BEFORE you set off from your LAST fill up. THAT's an accurate reading...
Yep, accuracy in your measurements is important! I recall having "ruined" the mileage a someone was getting with their car. They thought they were getting something like 42 MPG and debating whether going to a hybrid vehicle would make sense. Well, the 42 MPG sounded WAY high for the make/model of car they had. A little back and forth determined that they "calculated" their mileage by taking the number of miles they had driven after they bought the car by the number of gallons they put in the first time they put gas in the car...never mind how much gas might have been in the tank when they filled up. They never checked it again and assumed that was the mileage the car normally got. Needless to say, when they did things the right way (filled up, drove miles, filled up again, miles divided by gallons) they came up with a number like 25 MPG.
I guess I ruined their dream of what mileage they were getting
After test driving the 2014 Accord Hybrid 4 times and never getting over 40 MPG (driving very conservatively) I started looking for real world data and stumbled into fuelly.com where people post real fill up data. The current average is a little over 39 MPG so it appears my results were realistic. So, I ended up getting another Camry since I could get a fully loaded Camry XLE hybrid for $6000 less than the Accord Hybrid Touring (including financing) and the local Honda dealers would not deal the least little bit. After 1-1/2 months I'm averaging about 42 MPG (almost all city driving) and my wife is averaging a little over 40 MPG in her 2013 Camry XLE hybrid.
2015 Camry Revealed at 2014 NY Auto Show; Major Refresh to everything, except power plants (that is, no changes to the hybrid engine and drive-train, for now)
Check out the new 2015 Camry and click on the press release at bottom of page to get more info: (http:// "https://www.autoblog.com/2014/04/16/2015-toyota-camry-new-york-2014/")
More 2015 Camry pics: (http:// "https://www.autoblog.com/photos/2015-toyota-camry/med/")
So apparently no change, for now, in the 2015 Camry hybrid power plant to improve fuel efficiency. Reportedly the 2015 Camry will arrive at dealers this ~ September, +/-. However, the 2015 Prius will be have a complete make-over, and reportedly it's newly re-designed power plant will improve fuel efficiency by ~ 10% (50 --> 55 mpg); the new 2015 Prius will reportedly arrive at dealers between this June--> September. That newly revised Atkinson hybrid technology should then be used in the Camry, Avalon, and Lexus ES models probably in 2016 or 2017, which should allow the Camry hybrid to improve it's fuel efficiency by ~ 10%.
Thoughts?
Jake
2014 Honda Accord Hybrid MPG #'s Slammed by Consumer Reports!
As some on the board have noted (lester_eng, and rickpoole) there may be something 'fishy' in Honda's MPG claims for their 2014 Accord Hybrid (~ 48 mpg), and now Consumer Reports confirms Honda's inflated mpg claims (CR found ~ 40 mpg vs ~ 48 mpg claimed by Honda) and is highly critical of them (check the following links: (http:// "http://editorial.autos.msn.com/consumer-reports-blasts-honda-accord-hybrid-mpg-claim?icid=autos_5679") , and (http:// "http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/honda/accord/sedan-hybrid-4-cyl.htm"). These reports will definitely cool the hot sales of the 2014 Honda Accord Hybrid, and call into question the veracity of any future Honda product claims.
Kudos to lester_eng and rickpoole for their posts and heads up!
Jake