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Good luck with your new vehicle and I agree 100% that you have to deal with the dealership as part of the buying/ownership process. Aside from the incredible markeup on Lexus (e.g. ~$8000 on a GS300 vs. ~$4000 on an M35) the local dealership near me is too arrogant and pretentious for me. Hence I have bought 2 MDXs and 1 FX35. My local Acura dealership (3 cars bought) and my local Infiniti dealership (1 car bought) have been great :shades:
RX was nice, but didn;t feel as "planted" as the X. Had a lot of front end push in corners (I know it's an SUV but still) and I thought it was too narrow in the back seat.
The Volvo is a winner IMO. If I was driving the vehicle more often, I might have gone with the XC90. Alot of thought went into it from the seats, to the ergonomics, to the safety. And the appearance inside in out is handsome too. I think the only downfall was the $$$ for maintainence past 50k and I thought the steering felt VERY disconnected, very numb... The front suspension felt fragile, and the tranny (2.5t) was gear hunting way too much for my tastes.
Our MDX has been excellent though and on the safety front, we survived a rear end collision from some moron on rt128 who plowed into us (full speed, probably 70mph) pushing us up onto the median and into the guardrail... We walked away without a scratch... That was 30k miles ago and still to this day she runs like a champ. Very satisfied owners.
However, if I was you and had somebody else paying 3-year lease payments and gas, I might have pushed my wife harder for the XC90 V8 or even considered the Land Rover LR3. We bought outright and intend to keep the vehicle 7-10 years, so the reliability factors, fuel efficiency, standard features, etc all favored the MDX.
As for the RX330 being a "classy look", I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder. To me, the RX's looks have never grown on me. The skinny tires, funky back end, funky dash/console layout, etc. all look like they belong on a GM minivan rather than a Lexus SUV. I am much more favorably disposed to the GX470, which we might have gone for except for the dysfunctional third row seating arrangement.
After I traded it in for a 2005 SRX V6, I'm in heaven. It drives and shifts like butter. Not to mention is was the Robb Reports "The Best of the Best". If you are not aware of the Robb Report, it's a magazine dedicated to the ultra luxury, they know luxury. It was also Car and Driver's SUV of the year 2 years in a row. And the styling is one of kind, distintive cadillac style.
And 3rd row seating is always a big plus for me and anyone with lots family and friends
BOW WOW (Inside Line)
I could see myself cruising around town in an Ivory Ody with a black standard poodle next to me. :-)
Steve, Host
I'm just partial to black standard poodles myself -- I used to borrow my neighbor's all the time to walk. :-)
Steve, Host
The bad news is the wife has decided she now wants either an SRX AWD (3 row w/ ultra view) or 06 ML350. The worse news is there seems to be no competitive offers on either. There are no 2005 SRXs to be had for a deal and the 06 leases worse then the ML (residuals). Cadillac offers an Escalade at far better deals then the SRX. The residual is sweet on the MLs but the prices seem unmovable and the MF is usurious. To add insult to injury the dealer told me that once the MFs come down in the winter (along with the residual) he would continue to sell them like hotcakes at full price because “MLs sell themselves in snow months”.
So the questions are:
1) Has anyone seen any competitive pricing on either in the NY-NJ-CT area?
2) Is the situation going to get better or worse (should I wait)?
3) Should I get something else? (she was already kind enough to rule out VW, Infiniti, Acura, Volvo & Lexus).
Thanks for any help you can give
I wouldn't do business with anybody insulting your intelligence with such a comment. Love the new ML, but they certainly don't sell themselves. You may want to find another dealer, or explain to the Sales Mgr that the salesperson has you walking out the door with such insulting commentary. I'm sure that he/she knows there are options for your business.
Regarding the SRX, your bride may find ingress/egress a bit challenging due to the wide rocker panel trim under the doors. She would get her clothing dirty on a rainy day unless she was 6'4" tall with long legs to match
In the meanwhile the Jeep service claim to have finally found what is wrong with my JGC Overland that has been in the dealer's service shop as a regular on & off since May. And finally, the dealership's GM has stepped in and offers to take me out of my lease 4 months early. Great. (isn't that the point of the "drive ahead" program") And get this he will give me a GREAT price. Wow.
Limited 4x4 with Navigation (thats it for options). He offers me a rock bottom sales price of a $37500 for a Base 4X4 Limited w/ Navigation.
Question after researching this site... Isn't that above invoice or am I missing something? & without the $1500 cash back(?)... The Lease #s are $540 a mo. PLUS Tax, tags & 1st Mo at driveoff. This doesn't seem right. Although cheaper then what I was looking at (ML350 & SRX) as I was ready to walk away from the brand (after 2 JGCs in a row 3 total) and was enticed back with an "incredible deal" for a Jeep loyalist & to compensate for me driving a loaner all summer (at Overland prices). I test drove it & enjoyed it but should I be disappointed at the olive branch? What does anyone else think of this.
The vehicle is very sturdy/heavy and it feels really safe to be in.
But the amount of time it spends at the dealership and the huge amounts
for maint. make for a very painful experience both financially and otherwise.
I tried to get it sold, but the dealer offered me $10k for it and it has only 72k miles and in pretty good condition with all bells and whistles (incl a third row seat).
If you are in the market and considering one of these, please think again and stay away.
Hope this helps.
Also, suggestions as to when might be the best time to get a good deal would be great. Thanks to all in advance.
Our decision came down to the other two on your list, the MDX or XC90 V8 (briefly considered the GX470). I decided to let my wife make the decision, since she would be doing most of the day to day driving. She went for the MDX, based primarily on the size advantage, ease of use of the third row and Acura amenities which she likes from our 2004 TL (XM, Nav, Bluetooth phone, etc.). We only have two kids, but she ends up doing a fair amount of carting their friends around. The third row probably gets used once every week or two. And the second row is at least a full 2" wider in the MDX. Don't think that's much? It's life or death if you ever try to sit a real person between the two car seats.
From my perspective, I am happy with the MDX. Acura build quality and reliability are excellent. The vehicle performs reasonably well and gets decent gas mileage for a 7 passenger SUV. We get 22-23+ mpg on the highway, compared to 18-19 for our old 5 passenger considerably pokier and tipsy Trooper.
That said, the XC90 is a great vehicle. I particluarly like the high quality European interior, more stylish exterior, and class leading seat comfort. It drives and handles very well, especially the V8. But it also has some Swedish idiosyncracies and missing amenities. (No Bluetooth, XM, Nav system is 2 rungs down from Acura, etc). My wife found the narrower width and more difficult 3rd row ingress/egress a pain. And, although it seems to have gotten better since its introduction, the XC90 still had us wondering more about reliability and long term maintenance issues / expense.
Good luck and congratulations on the forthcoming arrivals.
Second, I am not sure precisely where you are shopping, but I shopped a few dealerships in the NYC area over the summer, and just recently phoned one of those dealerships to get a price for a friend of mine, and dealers seem to be taking off $2750-$3500 off the sticker. If you need information, please let me know.
I don't know anyone who is happy with their Mercedes. Which is too bad, since they make such sweet rides. But if they are in the shop every other month, who needs it? I know my time is more important than that, and I don't appreciate being taken advantage of that way.
All our execs have dumped the DC products for BMW, Land Rover, others. I know I know - out of the fat and into the fire. But they all got soured on DC reliability (and these folks are buying high-end cars, not the $40,000 models).
Someone above with the family of 4 was looking for advice. My first advice is, do you really need more than a sedan? (I have an SUV with a family of four, but that's because it is a great snow vehicle and it doesn't get a lot of miles during the week).
I rate the XC90 and SRX at the top of the list, but they are different vehicles. It really depends on what you want. The Lexus 400H (or non-H) would be great, too. I know folks who love their X5s, but the cargo capacity just stinks. If you don't need that, however, then it's a great car. Not up to Volvo or the SRX vis a vis reliability. The Cadillac will give the nicest "ride" but it won't give you any ground clearance, if that matters. The looks have not grown on my, and I really want to like it. But the ride is great. I'm surprised you can't find a deal on one, given GM's dire straits.
I don't think the Jeep is even in the same league as the XC90 (or the Acura). But buying a car is so much about personal tastes. (as it should be) But don't buy something you don't like just to save $50/month. If you are buying a $40,000 vehicle, you can't really be that concerned about monetary issues. If you ARE, then you should be buying a two-year old SRX or XC90 (or MDX)
I am fairly new to this board, so help me if I wander in the wrong direction.
I am considering the purchase of the impressive SRX. I live in Toronto, Canada and there are only a few of these vehicles around. It is really hard to get a vehicle to even test drive and I know I am going to pay big time to get one (sigh, such is the life in a small market).
I note that Cadillac is agressively advertising the SRX in the financial section of our Toronto and national Canadian papers. It is usually on the opposite page to the Lexus 330. It is obvious that Cadillac considers the 330 to be the competition and the price points are about the same.
In Toronto, many are "yuppies" and they would never descend to drive a domestic, the foreign is the ONLY vehicle, even with their endless, expensive servicing - I know, I used to be a "vehicle purchasing consultant" for vehicles with "pedigrees".
QUESTION - I love the aggressive styling of the SRX, but what is the main difference between it and the 330? Safety and Reliability are big with me - I am a daughter of a mechanic after all - I have no tolerance for breakdowns
QUESTION - Any tips on negotiating the SRX where there is limited supply?
Any info you could share would be appreciated
Have a great day everyone
NascarQueen24
Thanks
The models I'm comparing are an 06 X5 3.0 w/ premium, cold weather, rear climate, xenon, heated rear seats, heated wheel and 04 MDX Touring, Nav & Rear Ent.
Obviously the MDX is the value leader, costing 5k less yet having both Nav and DVD system in the price. We did not get the Nav in the X5 due to its poor ratings and the BMW DVD system seemed poorly executed as well.
I also give the nod to the MDX in the power department. The additional 30-40hp is a difference you can feel in acceleration from a stop and when passing.
Storage capacity is also on the MDX's size, cargo as well as passenger.
The X5 definitely gets the nod on comfort. The seats are softer, and I always felt like I was sitting on top of the MDX seats not in them. Part of the comfort feeling is also in the quality of the materials used. The dash looks much richer in the X5. The MDX's dash materials, while better than most, still are a step down from the plush looking X5. This is expecially true of the faux wood trim on the MDX center consol.
I also prefer the feel of driving the X5. There are two major reasons for this. One is road/engine noise. The X5 is much quieter than the MDX, expecially at highway speeds. The X5 feels like it is going much slower than the MDX at the same speed. The X5 definitely has a more solid feel and the steering has a much better weight to it. The MDX seems very over boosted in comparison. I also like the fact that the rear wheels drive the X5 most of the time compared to the MDX fronts, which leads to torque steer at times. The AWD systems in both are outstanding, working invisibly. The MDX's only issue is when you hit the gas while turning a tight slick corner, causing some initial push before the system catches up. In testing the X5 on the one snow day it's had, it seems unflapable.
The X5 also gets the nod for nice extra power features like power tilt/telescope on the wheel w/memory, power reclining rear seats, all windows are one-touch up & down vs. just the drivers on the MDX, the panorama moon roof and soft-touch rear hatch. Also like that the X5's hatch opens in two parts so that things that have moved around don't come crashing out when you open the door. The keys with fob controls included are nice as well.
In the end, I would not discourage the purchase of either. If your looking for value and utility, go MDX. If your a driver who likes a bit more luxury, go X5, it is worth it.
We got an MDX for it's size/versitility. But the X5 3.0 6-speed would have been our first choice had we put the kids up for adoption.
If gas is a big factor in buying a $40k-$45k SUV, perhaps you should be looking at a Highlander Hybrid or - heaven forbid - an Odyssey or Sienna minivan. those will give you much better fuel efficiency than either XC90 engine. The fact is the difference of 2-3 mpg would equate to around $200-$300 per year at 12,000 miles a year. That's not chump change, but it's also insignificant compared to the overall price and cost of ownership. Heck, at at a purchase price that's $10k-$15k less, you could drive a Honda Pilot for 5-7 years for free, compared to either XC90.
The XC90 in either form is a very nice vehicle. I recommend you get the engine that suits your needs and preferences.
Perhaps a better question might be "Is the True-Cost-To-Own" which Edmunds provides a good comparative measure?
I suggest you call the service departments of 1-2 dealers for each of the models you are considering and have them quote or fax you the regular maintenance schedules and prices. You might ask them for quotes on 1-2 specific repairs to give you a sense of relative pricing - like brake rotors and water pump.
I have found there can also be fairly significant geographic differences, with smaller town dealerships changing 20-30%+ less than larger metro areas.
Steve, Host
For the record, our 15k service is about $250.00 while the 30k is about $450.00. We've had no other issues to speak of other than maintainence on the vehicle in 56k miles. My father had an '01 that he put something like 135k on. Only out of warranty maintainence was the 105k timing belt and W.P. which was something like 3 grand :surprise:. Not out of the ordinary, but still a big chunk of coin...
Still, that was THE ONLY thing that went wrong over the time he had it.
Deciding on an 06 explorer xlt, 04 mdx with navi, and xc90. Tried the 06 explorer. its ok but i figure no right off th dealer new, maybe wait a year. The o4 mdx because of the up dated navi and restyled front and rear(i dig the new tail lamps), the performance for my needs and extra storage. Finally the xc90 because of the flair power and looks. I cant decide between the t6,t5, or v8. Did i mention fuel economy is best in the mdx? The explorer is off the list for the mediocre warranty. I prefer new but being 38grand+ vehicles,used is ok 4 me. I count highway miles moreso city because its a 45mile drive to work and almost 50 to the enearest volvo dealer
Does anyone have any suggestions, i don't want another :lemon:
Even if that is round trip and, say, 2/3 of your total miles then that would amount to over 16,000 miles per year so I take it your 15,000 mile figure is a typo.
tidester, host
I have the XC90 2.5T, which I find underpowered. And it drinks quite a bit of gas, too. I've seen quite a few problem reports in these forums about the T6 and the V8 models, but very few on the 2.5T. Also, once out of warranty, a Volvo will certainly cost more to fix than a Honda/Acura.
Don't get me wrong. I like my Volvo! I chose it over the MDX for its safety features, better brakes and handling, and better looks (personal taste).
I hope this post is OK, I am looking at some of the models listed, but not all due to my desire for more seating. And I therefore included a couple luxury things not on the list that do seat 7.
I am new to the board and shopping for a larger vehicle. Current vehicle is 98 Maxima SE Manual Transmission with toys. Need a vehicle that can handle 2 car seats, a Basset hound and stuff easily, 3 car seats occasionally, possibly regularly(future car pools), and handle ski trips. I like toys like the nav systems, blue tooth phone link, back up camera, etc.
I do not like to deal with car repairs and if I buy a nice new luxury SUV, I don't want to bring it in all the time.
I like to drive. The way the vehicle drives is very important to me, that is why I am mostly considering SUVS and not minivans, I can't stand the way the nicest van (Odyssey IMO) drives.
Here are my thoughts so far:
Acura MDX - like the exterior styling, nice enough ride, great nav system/toys, kinda small interior, hard to access 3rd row, but seems OK. From the little reading I have done, it seems Acura maintenance is not as carefree as I would have expected. They are at or near the bottom of JD Power list for 2005. I also don't like the dealer location where I visited, need to visit the other local dealer. Fold down 3rd row nice and flat.
Infiniti QX56 - larger than Acura, but more useful 3rd row when needed, a bit more truck like ride, but really not bad, good toys. OK exterior, not as nice interior as some. Have also heard they have had all kinds of problems with this car, the electronics that I like so much being part of the problems. Haven't heard a lot of other specific problems, hard to ascertain what to make of it. Nice infiniti dealer in the area.
Volvo XC90 - nice inside and out, nicer than I expected, cool middle part of second row seat, hard to explain, but it slides up. Don't remember if it folded down separately for better rear seat access, but want to say it did. Good crash/safety. Good fold down seats. Dealer told me to get an after market nav system, back up assist therefore not camera, but a buzzer. No blue tooth. Drove surprisingly nicely. Liked the local dealership.
Lexus GX470 - Was surprised salesman tried to put me toward this so much above the LX470. I asked for him because a friend has bought cars from him and liked him. GX he showed me had 3 third row seats that faced each other, didn't look like any latch option for either. HUH? This was very odd. LX looked like it at least had a real 3rd row, but access didn't look any better/worse than the Acura. Love the Lexus interior luxury feel, hate the disconnected way they drive. I like the idea of all the safety features, but it compromises the drive feel I think. Wonder if I would hate the bigger LX even more. The GX seats didn't really totally fold away and he said most people leave them in their garage for occasional use. This doesn't really do it for me. Very nice local dealership though.
Not driven - Mercedes ML500 with 7 seats, looks really really tight back there with 3rd row up. Kind of afraid of Mercedes maintenance record. Don't find their kind of luxury to suit my tastes as much. Drove a Merc sedan around LA for a week comparable to ones my hubby was test driving and was not impressed (BMW 3 series and whatever the comparable Merc was).
Land Rover - also large, but 3rd row very close to back and not great on the one vehicle that had it. Heard these are really best when you do a lot of off roading.
Anything American. On my list to go try them, just haven't done it yet.
The biggest thing I am unsure of how to judge is the maintenance/repairs/resale on these vehicles. I probably liked the MDX and XC90 best, but Lexus seems to have the best reliability. The Infiniti might be the most useful of the bunch, but is also a little larger, which may be more difficult getting around shopping and such.
Any thoughts about what else to look at and experiences with these vehicles would be helpful.
Thanks.
Closest one was in So Fla.
NOW, DW and I are more interested in the RX 330 and are having trouble sticking to our Volvo guns(three Volvos in a row and a total of five over the years). For almost the same money, the RX feels more refined, appears to get better mileage on reg gas, 7-800 lbs lighter and feels it, just the tiniest reduction in cargo capacity but with easier access to rear area, XM readily available...what to do? Local Lex dealer (Nalley--same family as our Volvo dealer) has just what we want--FWD, white, Premium pkg--on the lot. We are trading our '02 V70 loaded, 44K miles and last week(w/free Premium from Volvo) dealer offered $35.5 but with only $15k for our trade. If Lexus comes close, we may pull the trigger unless SOMEONE can shed some light on our puzzlement. What to do--what to do??? :confuse:
Just to put in my $0.02; I have never owned either a Lex or Volvo - I drive a 2002 ML 320 so technically I won't be of much help to you (my wife prefer the personality of MB vehicles and whatever class society has attached to Mercedes-Benz....you know how that goes).
If you are just purely looking for opinions/validations on whether to choose a Lex or Volvo, then I probably would be leaning more towards the Lex. I test drove one when I was in the market looking to purchase a vehicle and I really liked the handling, styling and the gas mileage numbers; on the other hand, the XC90 is a great SUV and if you are going to shed quite a small fortune on an automobile you should get what you really want so you won't be second-quessing yourself if you saw the other vehicle you almost bought on the road.....
Good luck.....