I surely understand your attitude regarding the 'Lanche, the Denver area has been blessed w/ an NHL team that's had only an upside, not much of a slide in it's short tenure there. But I need to clarify my status as an Avfan. I've been following hockey for 30 years, since I was 8, and have supported EVERY form of hockey available in Colorado. I used to go to Denver Spur games at the "barn", Rockies games @ McNichols, DU games at the campus, and caught a couple Av games at McNichols. Now, living in New Mexico, it's hard to get up there much to see 'em, but I try to stay up on their games as much as possible. BTW, when the Rockies left Colorado I became a Blackhawks fan, although w/out many telecasts it was hard to follow much back then. Anyway, always nice to meet fellow puckfans, and good luck to your Rangers! PS-Not ALL Avfans are "bandwagoners"
After 6,000 miles, average 21.5 mpg and love every minute while driving my 4x4 XLT Escape. Just ordered a stone-bug deflector smoked polycarb for front hood. Picking it up today. Hope to save paint before sand goes down on road for winter. Looking for mud guards in gray color to match lower plastic cladding, but cannot find any in my area. Custom fit black only from Ford and specialty stores. Anyone know of possible vendor?
great after 3K miles. Not one problem or odor. The V6 3.0 Duratec is a wonderful engine. I too am looking for matching splash guards. I notice the Mazda Tribute has them available....
Hello all- I found this on another Escape Message Board and if you're planning on joining the EAA to use the X Plan you might want to do it soon. "Beginning, December 1, a significant change in the plan goes into effect that rewards loyal and sustaining membership of EAA. Only people who've been EAA members for one full year or more will be eligible for the plan. Those who were members on or before November 30, 2001, are still eligible to participate in the plan. In addition, the entire line of Jaguar vehicles will be included in the plan after December 1. If you have any questions, visit www.eaa.org or call 800-JOIN-EAA (564-6322)." I checked the EAA website and did not see it there. Does anyone know if this is true?
I bought the mudguards early ( a couple of month's ago ) but have not installed them yet, d/t lack of time, and the fact that the mudguards are black and the bumper material is gray, as has been pointed out. However, it's not uncommon for other Trucks/SUV's that I've seen with two-tone colored cladding to have black mudguards. So, I'll probably install the mudguards on my Escapes bumpers. I did install the black rear bumper scuff strips which are available, and they kind of add a contrast effect. Not so bad. I would tend to think that that the mudguards and bumper strips should be the same color as the bumpers. Again, as has been pointed out, this a utilitatian-looking vehicle. Maybe things shouldn't match so much.
I was not able to seat my moonroof deflector properly when installing it and it cracked as well. It was a Ford ( or approved ) accessory. I have not taken this item back to the dealer, though I should. My favorite accessory are the thick rubber floor mats which actually cover a substantial area of carpeting. These are worth the money.
Overall satisfaction is high for me, with the V6, no smells, no stalls, and with only a slight thump noise immenating from the driver's door when going over bumpy roads. I've got to research that one. Seems solid after 5.5K miles.
Please, let's refrain from posting phone numbers on the boards as we have no way to verify them. It's easy enough to edit phone numbers out of a quote.
mckee4. Just out of curiousity. Are you Escape owners looking at the cosmetic factor as the reason you are installing Mud Flaps(Guards)?
Unless I am missing something I thought the purpose of the cladding was to prevent what Mud Flaps(Guards)were originally suppose to do, prevent paint chips from occuring behind the wheels.
We did buy them for our 1995 Pontiac Gran Prix GT, but only because the tires protruded outside of the wheel wells and rocks actually were hitting the paint.
Yes, the cladding does prevent chips to the paint.
The problem is that the cladding itself gets "chipped" and turns a dull color in chipped areas. After one winter on sanded roads, it looks rather worn, especially just in front of the rear tires (from grit flying up from the front tires).
I recommend a combination of mud flaps and the side step bars to reduce the "chipping" of the cladding.
I just got my escape about three weeks ago. My wife and I just drove it from Idaho to California. We averaged 23 miles per gallon. Not to bad considering the mountains we went through and all. My wife and I have put on 1200 miles in three weeks and for a week of that we were in Seattle while our truck was in Idaho not going anywhere. It was a lot smoother then I thought it would be. I used my 84 T-Bird for the same trip about 7 years ago and that car only had 60000 miles on it at that time and it got around 25. It did have a V-6 that was bigger but I think it did better because it was already broke in. That was a real smooth ride. I would have bought a new T-Bird instead of the Escape but I don`t like the Retro old look. I`ll be bringing my truck in for an oil change in a couple of days to get rid of the small parts of metal from the engine.
For anyone concerned about the black splash guards made for the Escape - they look fine inspite of the fact that they don't match the cladding! I was afraid they would stick out like a sore thumb with the difference in color. I am a real stickler in decorating, color matching, etc and I didn't want my car to look crummy due to mismatched splash guards. But I had them installed when the Escape came into the dealers to prevent rock dings in the cladding and they are very unnoticeable. They are small, only a small portion of them shows, and they blend in with the black tires. They do not look out of place at all.
My concern for wanting the guards is to prevent tar and road grime from splashing up on the sides. The cladding is to prevent rock chips in the paint, but without the guards the sides get filthy. I believe the guards would prevent the tar and grime from getting up as high as the paint as I have had. My Escape has the side step bars which I ordered on my Escape as an option after seeing them work as a door protector on my Ex-2000 Explorer from idiots that like to slam their car doors into the sides of new cars at shopping centers. I do use them as well when I wash the roof. Seeing their black maybe it would offset the cladding for black mud guards. Someone prior mentioned that maybe Mazda offers gray flaps. Anyone else know about that?
I'm a novice at buying a new car...so I'm looking for a little help. I noticed some of you talking about using an X-Plan. Would someone please enlighten me as to what that is, why I should be interested, and how I can utilize it? Any other stellar words of wisdom with regard to getting the best deal?
Also, I'm still at the stage of "waffling" between the Ford Escape and the Subaru Forester...anyone want to weigh in on that issue?
dchick: I'm new too. Did you scroll way back to learn about x plan? It looks valid to me. I've looked at lots of suvs, am knee deep in printed sheets for comparisons. Am narrowed down to Escape vs Tribute. Looked at both. That was before I found this site and even heard about x & s plans and fleet dealers. Had looked at Subaru, didn't like looks and it felt small to us. Didn't even test drive it. Will assume you put your question to the Subaru board too.
For my part, I was ready to start to negotiate on the Escape last week when dealer dropped the bombshell that it was excluded from 0% financing. Later that evening I found this site. Had I seen it before, I'd have saved myself the trip. It is a shame I began checking out vehicles on the last day of October! And didn't make it to Ford Dealer till 11-6.
Hope others will talk to us....Question to anyone: Do I have it correct that Escapes now being built have a shorter shift lever and softer front seats? Did I glean that correctly from past posts? And that it is called Job 1? If so, those were the only two objections we had in the vehicle.
Welcome to the boards! Town Hall members are most helpful and I am confident those with direct knowledge of the matters will be happy to share their experiences.
Scan the Posts here and on Yahoo Clubs, for Escape and Tribute and you will Inform yourself with your effort. The Posts have excellent and relative information for all of the issues you might bring up so don't be lazy. For example: Anyone who joins EAA at www.eaa.org can get a Ford Personal Identification Number for X-Plan that allows them to immediately buy or order Escapes at most dealers for a fixed no-haggle price of about 1% below total invoice. We thank ZOOLAN for sharing this with us early in 2001. The important Change information for YOU is that if you don't join before DEC 1st you will have to wait a year for your PIN. So do it Now, it is only $40. Another example: Stalling is the Serious unresolved problem with Escapes/Tributes. Still there are only about 100 complaints filed with NHTSA which is less than 0.1% of the total vehicles manufactured. See Thefordescapeclub in Yahoo clubs Post 30431. My Escape is my best buying and owning experience ever and I have had NO problems at all. Those few with problems post here to get help in resolving them. Knowledge empowers us.
1jimv1: THANK YOU very much for the tip on Yahoo boards. And it only took me 55 mins to locate Post 30431 . And I promise I won't inquire as to why they have to have more than one club. I plan on returning to that club and reading all the other posts...hopefully, 30431 has posted his vin # somewhere. Yes, I'd known about the stalling thing from having read these and Trib boards. But I'd been thinking that a 2001 problem might be resolved by 2002 year. Guess the longer I wait, the more chance of a permanent fix is likely. Also, thanks for the "1% below total invoice" tip...I'd only read the last 20 pages of messages on this board...now I'll go back to the first of year. Will join eaa post haste. Oh, and the reason I questioned Job 1 is that I'd pulled up some dealer inventory and saw Job 1 listed in Features...right there between anti- lock brakes and power 6-way drivers seat.
I have ordered a 2002 4X4 XLT Choice with a build date of Nov 19. Expected delivery date is Dec 3. I don't know if it is called job 1 or job 2, but it was supposed to start production this week. The change is legit. There is a post awhile back about it. It is correct that they are making softer seats and a shorter gear shift lever.
dchick// I would highly recommend the Escape over the Forester, other than having more horsepower and being an over all better vehicle, cheaper parts and labor is also an issue. The Escape will definitely have a higher resale value. It also is more of a true SUV vs the Forrester being a glorified station wagon. Do as you choose, but the Escape is a quality vehicle.
Does anyone know what Ford is financing the Escape's at right now. I know there is no incentive, but what is the standard rate? thanks
Foresters have excellent resale value. A 3 year old Forester goes for 70%+ of original purchase price around here. A 3 year old Ford Taurus goes for about 40%.
"True SUV" depends on your definition. Many people view the Escape as a "glorified car" due to its complete lack of "real" 4x4 components (low range, skid plates, decent suspension etc).
The Forester has a much better 4x4 system than the Escape
The Forester gets better mpg and will out handle an Escape and does not nearly have the problems that the Escape has.
Having said all of that, the Escape is a better looking vehicle IMHO.
Yes, I know it is a stretch. I use the Taurus as a comparison to show that the Forester is miles ahead of another Ford product in resale value. I do not agree that the Escape will "definitely" have better resale than the Forester. Also the Escape has the same engine as the Taurus.
I got rid of my Escape after 15,000 miles due to "unfixable" & "unfindable" problems.
I also was really disapointed with the 4x4 system. It sometimes made things worse. The Ford is not the only vehicle that suffers with a "delayed reactive" 4x4 system. The CRV is similar.
The Forester looks like a station wagon on steroids! Not to mention the Escape could run circles around it. If you are driving in bad weather, put the switch in 4x4. The 4x4 system is great for what most SUV owners use it for. If you want to do heavy off roading, the Escape isn't for you.
Are station wagons on steroids, or minivans on steroids. The Forester and Escape's AWD systems use different methods to arrive at the same goal, and both are more than adequate for 98% of what their owners need them for. In some cases the Forester S is superior to the Escape because it has a rear LSD, which the Escape does not have. All vehicles are compromises, with SUV's having to have the most to cover the broader spectrum of uses that their owners expect them to meet. Both the Escape and Forester are compromised towards on-road performance, with neither having much of an edge on the other. The Escape is quicker, but the Forester handles better, so performance is comparable. Both are up to light off-roading. So it comes down to styling, convenience features, price and reliability being the main differences. Neither will drive circles around the other.
I've perused the escape board and get the impression that the 4x4 performance on escape is rated so so. I live in New england and will therefore be driving in snow at some time or other. I really want the escape over just any other vehicle w/ four by four. Question is, will the 4 wheel drive be worth the extra expense, or would the front wheel drive be adequate in most snow conditions?????
If you want a quality vehicle at a decent price that has the exceptional handling in snow, try driving a Subaru Outback Wagon or Forrester. Their AWD is the standard by which all others are compared. Has high resale value and gets good mileage. I live in Maine and speak from experience re snow, ice, and hills with same. If you live in New England and ever get up to Maine, undoubtedly you have noticed a very large number of Outbacks and Forresters on the road. Guess why! Good luck.
Front wheel drive is adequate in most conditions. Look at all of the cars that get along just fine in the winter even in new england.. Most of them are also just front wheel drive.. The Escape is even better because even the 4x2 has a little more ground clearance than most cars and mini-vans.
I also find it amusing that Subaru fans lurk here.
The Escape's system is not as sophisticated as the Forester's. The Forester is full time 4x4 and can vary the torque between front and back and allways has some power going to the back.
The Escape's system is rather simple and just reacts when the front tires start to "spin".
With the Escape's 4x4 system set to "on", it actually performed worse for me in the snow as the rear end became very loose around corners. I only used it in the "on" positiion on straght ahead slippery & hilly sections after a while.
On snowy and icy roads, I would choose the Forester over the Escape (or CRV) any day.
The Escape IMHO, has more power and is better looking than the Forester.
With 2200 miles of mixed road driving we are getting 25+ mpg consistently on our Escape 4cyl 2L 5spd. All systems are AOK and GO, after 6 weeks on the road, towns and highways.
1st gear is LOW and quick, rather like the early VW bug...and transition's not terribly smooth from 1st to 2nd... but, who's doing drag racing hole shots anyway? Gears 2,3,4, & 5 are strong for such a small engine, between 1800 and 4000/4500 rpm, where you're able to move right out decently for traffic merging once in 2nd gear. The quick steering on our Escape is VERY stable in cross winds and quick lane changes. Haven't had to do any emergency maneuvers. Thank God.
Took it into our irregular & hilly back yard on wet grass in 1st gear with no difficulties and no slipping or tipping, using only the AWD function. Didn't need the 4WD function even on 30 degree grade.
LOTS of room!!! Seats are decent on entry level vehicle, even for my bad back! I AM pleasantly surprised.
However, engine and road noise does interfere with audio & my ears above 60/65 mph. Given the present gearing ratios and the pep of this 2L engine, they could well have afforded to add a 6th gear on this baby for highway cruising. THAT would dramatically have reduced the 2L hum which tachs about 3grand @ 60, and 4grand @ 80mph. 60/65mph generates about all I can stand of decibels for more than five minutes. Hence, I find the engine noise level generated by the 4cyl tends to make me drive slower at highway speeds, even when conditions otherwise do not make it necessary. In that respect I would HOPE & EXPECT their 6cyl to be quieter, since it SHOULD tach at lower rpms. IF there is a noise reduction package GET IT!!!
We got our '01 Escape XLS 2WD V6 off the lot about 6 weeks ago, it has ALMOST everything I wanted 'cept Cruise Control. I've found several aftermarket CC units, but none have the Escape in there applications chart. One in particular seemed like it would work, the Audiovox CSS-100, but it requires using the Vehicles' VSS (Vehicle Speed Sensor) or installing magnets to the one of the front driveshafts. Anyone know if this can be done w/ this vehicle, and if so, would it void the warranty? Thanks!
You should be able to get the one that Ford puts on at the factory. Call the dealer and ask about it. Then go to one of the online Ford parts sites and order the part #s you need. It shouldn't be much more expensive (if at all) than aftermarket ones, and it won't void any warranty
and was told it wasn't available. I'll try and check some other sources, and hopefully I was just mis-informed. I'd love to get the factory CC, not only for the warranty, but the factory look as well. Thanks Tiredofmanual!
The Subaru has a much better and more sophisticated 4x4 system than the Escape (or the CRV for that matter). The Forester varies torque between the front and rear axles as needed and gives a more controlled ride in the slippery stuff.
I actually found that in snow & ice, the Escape 4x4 dial was better left on "Auto" rather then "On" for most driving. In "On" mode, the rear end would sometimes "kickout" on curves causing a slide (btw, I had studded winter tires). The "on" mode would work best for straight ahead slippery situations like steep hills in town.
My advice is if you can get by this winter, wait for the 2003 Forester as it will be a redesign (I don't like the looks of the current model).
With all the hype, I just had to go down to the SF Auto show this week to check them out. What a disappointment.
The Forester is basically just a station wagon with the roof popped up. Fine if you want to drive a car that looks like a wagon, but not for any guy with any self respect. Yes, they run well, but so do Honda civics.
The Escapes are somewhat better looking, but still closer to the taurus wagon (its shared platform) than the Explorer. Plus, the seats were terribly uncomfortable, somewhat of a surprise since I'm not in the football player weight class.
Needless to say, I was not tempted to trade in my '97 Explorer for either of these two. I think I'll wait until it's time for a new Explorer.
The TV ad stating that the Forester has a better crash record is very misleading. If you check right here at Edmunds the Escape is behind the Forester in one category, offset. Otherwise the Escape wins in every other category. Also check MSN.... The V6 is what absolutely hammers the Forester. The V6 just plain out powers the Forester. As far as handling the Escape also handles better in my opinion. As far as the 4x4 system on the Escape it has done just fine by me. I go up Fishing in the mountains and use logging/access roads to get into some lakes and the Escape has gotten me there just fine. Granted I am well aware its a car frame and is not to go into heavy 4x4 terrain. I don't need that type of suspension. Over 90 percent of my driving is done on ROADS... as is the majority of the populations... The 4x4 system is not as "sophisticated" as some has said, but it works. First snow of the season in my area and the Escape handled just fine... The Escape is superior to the Forester in handling, performance, towing, interior.. The V6 isn't that much more either....
Thanks,scape 2, for finally answering some of my questions satisfactorily, (usefulness of 4 wheel drive system,etc.)good to know that you found 4 wheel drive adequate for light,occasional off road and snow, that is what i seek. I have test driven the escape 3x.The escape is not to be confused with the forrester, thank goodness!I'm not going to compare a value filled hybrid suv with a car with a raised roof.It is also unfair to compare escape with the pricier,boxier, thirsty explorer. I will concede that the superiority of the explorer seating is certainly obvious for anyone wanting to do a little comparison. The overall value, handling and practicality of the symmetrically built escape is something that will stand up to the fiercest critics. For anyone that wants a carlike ride with high stance, surprising room, and a modicum of that suv toughness at reasonable price, this is it. Provided that ford can continue to hold down its prices, a little refinement and tweaking will insure the continued sales success of this vehicle...........
Everyone has their own particular vehicle requirements. As far as choosing between the Escape and Forester for performance ON-ROAD in bad weather (snow etc), the Forester (especially with the rear LSD) wins hands down. For OFF-ROAD, the Liberty would be a better bet. The Escape's 4x4 system is a weak compromise. Yes, it will get you through, but so will a 1978 Toyota Corolla with good winter tires. As I mentioned earlier, the Escape's 4x4 system can cause more problems than benefits.
As far as crash tests go, the Escape scores worse than the Forester in the crash test that resembles most real world fatal accidents - the offset test. The other tests are closer.
I bought a 2001 Escape because I though it would do the job. I had to get rid of it. What I do miss is its power, handling, room, utility and solid feel. I do NOT miss its unexplainable miriad of problems, poor and inconsistent fuel mileage and borderline useless 4x4 system.
Ford needs to put more than just a "little" refinement and tweaking into this vehicle. With a lot of good automotive luck, the 2003 model may be ready for prime time.
wow, i thought this was a board for a particular small suv,not a souped up station wagon! some of you guys harping on the forester thing sound like one note drummers... this should be a board for those discussing the good and bad points of escape versus some of the many other "cute utes"; santa fe,xterra,Liberty, crv,etc. Not to say that the 01 escape didn't have its share of problems (in a limited,not overwhelming number), which have been well chronicled on this board. C-2, don't you think that there is a good reason that ford doesn't extend its 0% financing on this product? It doesn't have to. i can scarcely find a loaded 02 xlt or base model at any of the Eastern Mass. dealerships. There is a plethora of explorers at every ford dealership. by the way, i have test driven virually all the small suvs and am qualified to offer some consumer oriented opinion on them. Let's get off this subaru hangover, please.
Someone asked the question which would be better for snowy roads, an Escape or a Forester. By personal experience, I suggested that a Forester is far better for snowy roads.
The person asking the question obviously is willing to settle with everything else about the vehicle, whether it be a Forester or Escape. I initially chose the Escape over the Forester for the same reason many others did: I find it a far more attractive and substantial looking vehicle than the Forester. My mistake in assuming that it's weak 4x4 system would be good enough for my simple requirements of providing safe traction ON snow covered roads.
Never mind the CONTINUED problems with the Escape.
Yes, I truly hope that Ford gets it right soon as the Escape otherwise has got incredible potential.
I am talking by first hand experience in 1-2 feet of snow! My Escape handled just fine, no problems. During fishing season it handled any access/logging road just fine, no problems. I don't think you can call this system weak by any means. Granted its not full time AWD. Lets look at some facts though. YOu don't need full time AWD in all driving conditions. First of all over 80 percent of 4x4's barely even see a gravel road. People are looking for a vehicle that rides, and handles like a car, not a truck. This is the majority of the people. Ford/Mazda went with the majority of the market not the minority. The Forester is a nice vehicle but I feel the the Escape is the answer to the majority of the peoples wants. I have looked at the crashtest data at several internet sites and they all point to the same thing. The Forester wins in offset only. Otherwise the Escape does better or they are even. The Foresters weak point is its engine. The Escape will out tow, haul, acclerate and handle the Forester on pavement hands down. (with a V6). The Escape also offers more choices to people. Meaning you can have a v6 FWD/AWD or a 4cyl FWD/AWD. Does Subaru offer these choices? As far as problems.. Please check the Yahoo Escape boards and the many other Escape boards around the net. There are plenty, if not a majority of Escape/Tribute owners with NO PROBLEMS. I am one of them too!
The Escape's 4x4 system is weak in 2 areas: 1. For real off-roading. We all agree on this. The Escape is not built to do it. The viscous coupling is especially bad and will burn up in a hurry if you over do it. Gravel roads are not over-doing it.
2. For providing responsive traction in bad conditions (snow,ice) ON-ROAD. As you say, it is not a true AWD system. Yes, the Escape can plow through a foot and a half of snow. But in 4 inches of fresh snow with ice underneath, the Escape does not nearly provide the overall stability a Subaru does.
Again, a poster asked which vehicle is better on snow covered roads. The fact that the Escape has more power, looks better, can tow more, meets 80% of people's needs, is better on 3 out of 7 crash tests, gets much worse gas mileage etc is all besides the point. The Subaru (and many other vehicles) have much better, and more stable "traction" systems for snow covered roads. period. Look for Ford to fix this in the next version of the Escape.
Where you see "better on 3 out of 7 crash tests"? Take a look right here in your own backyard at Edmunds crashtests say different, Why? So do MSN crashtests.. I agree the Escape is not made to serious offroad. Its a car frame also. But neither is your Forester! I was in snow/ice conditions and my Escape has taken me up skiing and back 7 times now with not a problem. As far as MPG, you leave out the Escape has a V6! What about 4cyl vs 4cyl? I am well aware that Subaru has been around the AWD market far longer than Ford. But the way you totally discount the Traction system on the Escape is ignorant. The system works...
I think that it is fair to compare the mpg of the V6 Escape to the H4 Subaru because that is what most people are looking to buy. The 4-cylinder Escape is grossly underpowered and should be left out of this discussion. The H4 Forester is quite spirited and will blow the doors off the I4 Escape while offering similar mpg to the I4 Escape. Why even bring up the I4 Escape?
You can not claim that the Escape has superior power & acceleration (V6) and then say it also offers good mpg (I4) because that is combining the qualities of 2 different vehicles.
By that logic we can say the Escape gets poor mp and is a dog because it only has 130HP.
Yes, the Escape will get you to the ski hill fine. But, the proof in the pudding is that you can safely drive the Forester FASTER on the same slippery snow-covered roads than you can safely drive the Escape (assume they have the same model of tires).
That is an extra margin of safety that is important to many people even if you do not use it.
You should be careful in all your driving, but with the Escape you just have to be MORE careful and go slower on snow-covered roads than you otherwise would in a Subaru.
I'm 6'3" with a 33 inch inseam and a LONG torso. I used to have problems with legroom in cars - but now I have more problem with HEADROOM than legroom!
I'm in immediate need to purchase a fully loaded SUV - tried out the Toyota RAV4 and Highlander. Even in the Highlander, my head was slightly bumping the moonroof. (Same in an Avalon - the new Camry was the best of all of them I sat in!)
Are there any decent decked out ($30-35K) small/medium SUVs that have decent headroom (and legroom)?
Side note: I had to special order a Nissan Maxima and waited 5 months to get it WITHOUT a moonroof - I would rather NOT go through that again. And I need to get my hands on a new SUV by the end of the year.
[Also, I am trading in a 2000 Toyota Land Cruiser - about $36K trade-in value.]
I'm in the same boat as you.... I'm 6'3" inseam of 32" and about 280lbs. I was looking at all the small suv's. I finally traded a '98 Stratus (with sunroof) and a '95 Grand Am (w/o sunroof) on a '01 Escape. On the escape I got everything but the sidebars, leather and side airbags. As for the Sunroof/Moonroof, even with the shade open or closed I have plenty of headroom. For leg room, I'm also comfortable. I test drove an Escape with and without the sunroof... and having the sunroof made no different in headroom. Hopo you are happy with what-ever you end up purchasing. Good Luck.
As for the 4x4 system, I've had my escape up and down some pretty steap dirt hills, and have already had the tires up to the middle of the hubs in mud and streams. My wife thinks I'm crazy. But I've taken my escape on some of the older trails that I use to go on with my '97 Wrangler I had. The trails are very well suited for many different types of suv's (4x4) . I did notice that when in full time 4x4 on a hill the escape will drift back a slight bit before finally going. But I havn't needed any help from any of my friends to be pulled out of anything yet. I guess as long as your familiar with the trails/paths that your going to go on you should be okay, just don't drive like your playing some video game.
be carful! The Escape is a car frame. If you twist your vehicle too much offroad your in for some serious trouble. Also, offroad don't over extend your suspension. The Escape is just not made for trails a Wrangler could handle easily. Hinkly - Sounds like you want an import.. Tried an Xterra? Otherwise a loaded Escape/Trib goes for about 25K. canad - ok, lets stick with the V6. AS far as MPG. How can you say a V6 that puts out 201HP and 200 ft/lbs of torque and gets 23MPG HWY, 18 city is bad??? Your Forester doesn't do that much better when looking at the HP/Torque comparisons. I do plenty of driving in the snow/ice. The Escape will get you where you want to go, period. I also tow my two jet skiis, lets see a Forester do that! I also fish in the mountains... no problems using the access/logging roads....
Looking at Edmunds, carpoint & yahoo boards, the Escape V6 gets anywhere from 15 to 26 mpg average. It has always bugged me that Ford can not explain its huge variances the mileage. And it is not just driving style.
If you are gettin 23mpg in an Escape you are doing great. I figure the overall average is closer to 20-21 mpg. The Edmunds test showed 16-18mpg average. I got 19.1 Highway mpg on mine and that's after 14,000 miles. A buddy gets 20mpg on his 265HP 5.4L F-150 4x4 Supercab. Go figure. Anyway, Foresters get 26-30mpg - 30 to 50% better than the V6 Escape. And the spread is not all over the map like the Escape. Ford should get their act together and figure it out and fix it.
As well, I do not own a Forester. Don't like how they look. The Escape is much better looking. The Subaru is just better engineered than the Escape for lots of driving on snow-covered highways.
Lot's of Escapers are not happy with the mpg they are getting or all the problems they are having. I know of 3 in our area that had their engine replaced. I had a bunch of problems that the dealer could not fix or explain so I got rid of it.
Our '01 V-6 XLS 2WD (w/ 2000 miles) has never gotten worse than 23 MPG Hwy, and 20 City. We just got back from a 500 mile round trip over Thanksgiving and got 25 the way out and 27.5 the way back. Our destination was at a higher elevation so obviously our return mileage was better. The MPG seems to be improving as the motor breaks in, we keep our tires @35 PSI, and use the 5W-20 Motorcraft Oil (which I changed after the 1st 1000 miles) definately a happy customer thus far!
In many ways the 2WD is preferable to the 4WD Escape: 1. cheaper 2. gets better mileage 3. it has less things to go wrong (and they DO go wrong) 4. can actually be SAFER in some slippery ON-ROAD conditions (where the abrupt torque transfer of the 4WD causes a skid)
The 2Wd's downfall is that Ford has convinced the general public that the 4x4 system is good so the 2WD version has worse resale values. Ford also does not sell the 2WD in Canada.
Comments
I found this on another Escape Message Board and if you're planning on joining the EAA to use the X Plan you might want to do it soon.
"Beginning, December 1, a significant change in the plan goes into effect that rewards loyal and sustaining membership of EAA. Only people who've been EAA members for one full year or more will be eligible for the plan. Those who were members on or before November 30, 2001, are still eligible to participate in the plan. In addition, the entire line of Jaguar vehicles will be included in the plan after December 1. If you have any questions, visit www.eaa.org or call 800-JOIN-EAA (564-6322)."
I checked the EAA website and did not see it there. Does anyone know if this is true?
lack of time, and the fact that the mudguards are black and the bumper material is gray,
as has been pointed out. However, it's not uncommon for other Trucks/SUV's that I've seen
with two-tone colored cladding to have black mudguards. So, I'll probably install the
mudguards on my Escapes bumpers. I did install the black rear bumper scuff strips which
are available, and they kind of add a contrast effect. Not so bad. I would tend to think that
that the mudguards and bumper strips should be the same color as the bumpers.
Again, as has been pointed out, this a utilitatian-looking vehicle. Maybe things shouldn't
match so much.
I was not able to seat my moonroof deflector properly when installing it and it cracked as
well. It was a Ford ( or approved ) accessory. I have not taken this item back to the dealer,
though I should. My favorite accessory are the thick rubber floor mats which actually cover
a substantial area of carpeting. These are worth the money.
Overall satisfaction is high for me, with the V6, no smells, no stalls, and with only a
slight thump noise immenating from the driver's door when going over bumpy roads.
I've got to research that one. Seems solid after 5.5K miles.
Thanks!
tidester
Host
SUVs
Unless I am missing something I thought the purpose of the cladding was to prevent what Mud Flaps(Guards)were originally suppose to do, prevent paint chips from occuring behind the wheels.
We did buy them for our 1995 Pontiac Gran Prix GT, but only because the tires protruded outside of the wheel wells and rocks actually were hitting the paint.
hckynut
The problem is that the cladding itself gets "chipped" and turns a dull color in chipped areas. After one winter on sanded roads, it looks rather worn, especially just in front of the rear tires (from grit flying up from the front tires).
I recommend a combination of mud flaps and the side step bars to reduce the "chipping" of the cladding.
good luck.
Also, I'm still at the stage of "waffling" between the Ford Escape and the Subaru Forester...anyone want to weigh in on that issue?
Thanks for any help!
For my part, I was ready to start to negotiate on the Escape last week when dealer dropped the bombshell that it was excluded from 0% financing. Later that evening I found this site. Had I seen it before, I'd have saved myself the trip. It is a shame I began checking out vehicles on the last day of October! And didn't make it to Ford Dealer till 11-6.
Hope others will talk to us....Question to anyone: Do I have it correct that Escapes now being built have a shorter shift lever and softer front seats? Did I glean that correctly from past posts? And that it is called Job 1? If so, those were the only two objections we had in the vehicle.
tidester
Host
SUVs
Anyone know for sure or has anyone seen this in the dealerships yet?
dchick//
I would highly recommend the Escape over the Forester, other than having more horsepower and being an over all better vehicle, cheaper parts and labor is also an issue. The Escape will definitely have a higher resale value. It also is more of a true SUV vs the Forrester being a glorified station wagon.
Do as you choose, but the Escape is a quality vehicle.
Does anyone know what Ford is financing the Escape's at right now. I know there is no incentive, but what is the standard rate?
thanks
A 3 year old Forester goes for 70%+ of original purchase price around here. A 3 year old Ford Taurus goes for about 40%.
"True SUV" depends on your definition. Many people view the Escape as a "glorified car" due to its complete lack of "real" 4x4 components (low range, skid plates, decent suspension etc).
The Forester has a much better 4x4 system than the Escape
The Forester gets better mpg and will out handle an Escape and does not nearly have the problems that the Escape has.
Having said all of that, the Escape is a better looking vehicle IMHO.
I use the Taurus as a comparison to show that the Forester is miles ahead of another Ford product in resale value. I do not agree that the Escape will "definitely" have better resale than the Forester.
Also the Escape has the same engine as the Taurus.
I got rid of my Escape after 15,000 miles due to "unfixable" & "unfindable" problems.
I also was really disapointed with the 4x4 system. It sometimes made things worse. The Ford is not the only vehicle that suffers with a "delayed reactive" 4x4 system. The CRV is similar.
Neither will drive circles around the other.
Look at all of the cars that get along just fine in the winter even in new england.. Most of them are also just front wheel drive.. The Escape is even better because even the 4x2 has a little more ground clearance than most cars and mini-vans.
I also find it amusing that Subaru fans lurk here.
The Escape's system is rather simple and just reacts when the front tires start to "spin".
With the Escape's 4x4 system set to "on", it actually performed worse for me in the snow as the rear end became very loose around corners.
I only used it in the "on" positiion on straght ahead slippery & hilly sections after a while.
On snowy and icy roads, I would choose the Forester over the Escape (or CRV) any day.
The Escape IMHO, has more power and is better looking than the Forester.
1st gear is LOW and quick, rather like the early VW bug...and transition's not terribly smooth from 1st to 2nd... but, who's doing drag racing hole shots anyway? Gears 2,3,4, & 5 are strong for such a small engine, between 1800 and 4000/4500 rpm, where you're able to move right out decently for traffic merging once in 2nd gear. The quick steering on our Escape is VERY stable in cross winds and quick lane changes. Haven't had to do any emergency maneuvers. Thank God.
Took it into our irregular & hilly back yard on wet grass in 1st gear with no difficulties and no slipping or tipping, using only the AWD function. Didn't need the 4WD function even on 30 degree grade.
LOTS of room!!! Seats are decent on entry level vehicle, even for my bad back! I AM pleasantly surprised.
However, engine and road noise does interfere with audio & my ears above 60/65 mph. Given the present gearing ratios and the pep of this 2L engine, they could well have afforded to add a 6th gear on this baby for highway cruising. THAT would dramatically have reduced the 2L hum which tachs about 3grand @ 60, and 4grand @ 80mph. 60/65mph generates about all I can stand of decibels for more than five minutes. Hence, I find the engine noise level generated by the 4cyl tends to make me drive slower at highway speeds, even when conditions otherwise do not make it necessary. In that respect I would HOPE & EXPECT their 6cyl to be quieter, since it SHOULD tach at lower rpms. IF there is a noise reduction package GET IT!!!
Otherwise, we are VERY pleased with the Escape.
The Forester varies torque between the front and rear axles as needed and gives a more controlled ride in the slippery stuff.
I actually found that in snow & ice, the Escape 4x4 dial was better left on "Auto" rather then "On" for most driving. In "On" mode, the rear end would sometimes "kickout" on curves causing a slide (btw, I had studded winter tires). The "on" mode would work best for straight ahead slippery situations like steep hills in town.
My advice is if you can get by this winter, wait for the 2003 Forester as it will be a redesign (I don't like the looks of the current model).
The Forester is basically just a station wagon with the roof popped up. Fine if you want to drive a car that looks like a wagon, but not for any guy with any self respect. Yes, they run well, but so do Honda civics.
The Escapes are somewhat better looking, but still closer to the taurus wagon (its shared platform) than the Explorer. Plus, the seats were terribly uncomfortable, somewhat of a surprise since I'm not in the football player weight class.
Needless to say, I was not tempted to trade in my '97 Explorer for either of these two. I think I'll wait until it's time for a new Explorer.
The V6 is what absolutely hammers the Forester. The V6 just plain out powers the Forester. As far as handling the Escape also handles better in my opinion. As far as the 4x4 system on the Escape it has done just fine by me. I go up Fishing in the mountains and use logging/access roads to get into some lakes and the Escape has gotten me there just fine. Granted I am well aware its a car frame and is not to go into heavy 4x4 terrain. I don't need that type of suspension. Over 90 percent of my driving is done on ROADS... as is the majority of the populations... The 4x4 system is not as "sophisticated" as some has said, but it works. First snow of the season in my area and the Escape handled just fine... The Escape is superior to the Forester in handling, performance, towing, interior.. The V6 isn't that much more either....
As I mentioned earlier, the Escape's 4x4 system can cause more problems than benefits.
As far as crash tests go, the Escape scores worse than the Forester in the crash test that resembles most real world fatal accidents - the offset test. The other tests are closer.
I bought a 2001 Escape because I though it would do the job. I had to get rid of it.
What I do miss is its power, handling, room, utility and solid feel.
I do NOT miss its unexplainable miriad of problems, poor and inconsistent fuel mileage and borderline useless 4x4 system.
Ford needs to put more than just a "little" refinement and tweaking into this vehicle. With a lot of good automotive luck, the 2003 model may be ready for prime time.
good luck to all!
The person asking the question obviously is willing to settle with everything else about the vehicle, whether it be a Forester or Escape. I initially chose the Escape over the Forester for the same reason many others did: I find it a far more attractive and substantial looking vehicle than the Forester.
My mistake in assuming that it's weak 4x4 system would be good enough for my simple requirements of providing safe traction ON snow covered roads.
Never mind the CONTINUED problems with the Escape.
Yes, I truly hope that Ford gets it right soon as the Escape otherwise has got incredible potential.
good luck
The Forester is a nice vehicle but I feel the the Escape is the answer to the majority of the peoples wants.
I have looked at the crashtest data at several internet sites and they all point to the same thing. The Forester wins in offset only. Otherwise the Escape does better or they are even.
The Foresters weak point is its engine. The Escape will out tow, haul, acclerate and handle the Forester on pavement hands down. (with a V6). The Escape also offers more choices to people. Meaning you can have a v6 FWD/AWD or a 4cyl FWD/AWD. Does Subaru offer these choices?
As far as problems.. Please check the Yahoo Escape boards and the many other Escape boards around the net. There are plenty, if not a majority of Escape/Tribute owners with NO PROBLEMS. I am one of them too!
1. For real off-roading. We all agree on this. The Escape is not built to do it. The viscous coupling is especially bad and will burn up in a hurry if you over do it. Gravel roads are not over-doing it.
2. For providing responsive traction in bad conditions (snow,ice) ON-ROAD. As you say, it is not a true AWD system. Yes, the Escape can plow through a foot and a half of snow. But in 4 inches of fresh snow with ice underneath, the Escape does not nearly provide the overall stability a Subaru does.
Again, a poster asked which vehicle is better on snow covered roads. The fact that the Escape has more power, looks better, can tow more, meets 80% of people's needs, is better on 3 out of 7 crash tests, gets much worse gas mileage etc is all besides the point. The Subaru (and many other vehicles) have much better, and more stable "traction" systems for snow covered roads. period. Look for Ford to fix this in the next version of the Escape.
Take a look right here in your own backyard at Edmunds crashtests say different, Why? So do MSN crashtests..
I agree the Escape is not made to serious offroad. Its a car frame also. But neither is your Forester! I was in snow/ice conditions and my Escape has taken me up skiing and back 7 times now with not a problem. As far as MPG, you leave out the Escape has a V6! What about 4cyl vs 4cyl?
I am well aware that Subaru has been around the AWD market far longer than Ford. But the way you totally discount the Traction system on the Escape is ignorant. The system works...
You can not claim that the Escape has superior power & acceleration (V6) and then say it also offers good mpg (I4) because that is combining the qualities of 2 different vehicles.
By that logic we can say the Escape gets poor mp and is a dog because it only has 130HP.
Yes, the Escape will get you to the ski hill fine.
But, the proof in the pudding is that you can safely drive the Forester FASTER on the same slippery snow-covered roads than you can safely drive the Escape (assume they have the same model of tires).
That is an extra margin of safety that is important to many people even if you do not use it.
You should be careful in all your driving, but with the Escape you just have to be MORE careful and go slower on snow-covered roads than you otherwise would in a Subaru.
legroom!
I'm in immediate need to purchase a fully loaded SUV - tried out the Toyota RAV4 and Highlander. Even in the Highlander, my head was slightly bumping the moonroof. (Same in an Avalon - the new Camry was the best of all of them I sat in!)
Are there any decent decked out ($30-35K) small/medium SUVs that have decent headroom (and legroom)?
Side note: I had to special order a Nissan Maxima and waited 5 months to get it WITHOUT a moonroof - I would rather NOT go through that again. And I need to get my hands on a new SUV by the end of the year.
[Also, I am trading in a 2000 Toyota Land Cruiser - about $36K trade-in value.]
Bud Hinckley
As for the 4x4 system, I've had my escape up and down some pretty steap dirt hills, and have already had the tires up to the middle of the hubs in mud and streams. My wife thinks I'm crazy. But I've taken my escape on some of the older trails that I use to go on with my '97 Wrangler I had. The trails are very well suited for many different types of suv's (4x4) . I did notice that when in full time 4x4 on a hill the escape will drift back a slight bit before finally going. But I havn't needed any help from any of my friends to be pulled out of anything yet. I guess as long as your familiar with the trails/paths that your going to go on you should be okay, just don't drive like your playing some video game.
Odie
Hinkly - Sounds like you want an import.. Tried an Xterra? Otherwise a loaded Escape/Trib goes for about 25K.
canad - ok, lets stick with the V6. AS far as MPG. How can you say a V6 that puts out 201HP and 200 ft/lbs of torque and gets 23MPG HWY, 18 city is bad??? Your Forester doesn't do that much better when looking at the HP/Torque comparisons.
I do plenty of driving in the snow/ice. The Escape will get you where you want to go, period.
I also tow my two jet skiis, lets see a Forester do that!
I also fish in the mountains... no problems using the access/logging roads....
It has always bugged me that Ford can not explain its huge variances the mileage. And it is not just driving style.
If you are gettin 23mpg in an Escape you are doing great. I figure the overall average is closer to 20-21 mpg. The Edmunds test showed 16-18mpg average. I got 19.1 Highway mpg on mine and that's after 14,000 miles. A buddy gets 20mpg on his 265HP 5.4L F-150 4x4 Supercab. Go figure.
Anyway, Foresters get 26-30mpg - 30 to 50% better than the V6 Escape. And the spread is not all over the map like the Escape. Ford should get their act together and figure it out and fix it.
As well, I do not own a Forester. Don't like how they look. The Escape is much better looking. The Subaru is just better engineered than the Escape for lots of driving on snow-covered highways.
Lot's of Escapers are not happy with the mpg they are getting or all the problems they are having. I know of 3 in our area that had their engine replaced.
I had a bunch of problems that the dealer could not fix or explain so I got rid of it.
1. cheaper
2. gets better mileage
3. it has less things to go wrong (and they DO go wrong)
4. can actually be SAFER in some slippery ON-ROAD conditions (where the abrupt torque transfer of the 4WD causes a skid)
The 2Wd's downfall is that Ford has convinced the general public that the 4x4 system is good so the 2WD version has worse resale values.
Ford also does not sell the 2WD in Canada.