Tires, tires, tires

onebuc · June 2003

This is a 1996 Accord, that origionally came with 195-65-15. About 6 months ago had to replace one tire that same size as origional. The other 3 were OK for the time. I know I will be replacing the other 3 soon. Now I have the oppertunity to snag 3 nearly new Aquatreds that are 195-60-15. Would there be any problem with this size tire? Would there be a problem with 1 different from the other three? Thanks onebuc

capriracer · June 2003

There are 2 good reasons not to do this:

1) You are going down in load carrying capacity, so you'll have a greater risk of a durability failure.

2) One odd tire might cause some unusual handling characteristics, especially in an emergency situation.

Hope this helps.

djweber · June 2003

I have a 99 Trooper and needing new tires. I know the Fortera's are 'less aggressive' than Revos. I am not concerned about off-road but live in Chicago and travel to mountains of WV frequently. So highway performance a concern, but need good snow/ice/wet traction (as opposed to mud, etc. off-road)as well.

Are the Revos quiet enough on the open highway? Are the Forteras sticky enough for fairly severe winter weather?

Any comments appreciated.

outlawtitan · June 2003

The guy that won the auction never came through with the money. I finally got in touch with his wife but he never returned my call. I am going to relist the tires and put a curse on the other guy!

zueslewis · June 2003

negative feedback for the guy...

Also, post in your new ad about how the guy flaked on you. Just relist them..

bretfraz · June 2003

I just sold a set of 16" chrome wheels and tires last night on e-bay. Buyer paid me immediately via Paypal. This is the way all e-bay transactions should go. I'm gonna give this guy all gold stars for the super prompt pay. Now I gotta ship em. Then list the 17" wheels and tires I still have. Jeez, I should open my own tire shop.

zueslewis · June 2003

for my PT Cruiser GT?

caperosier · June 2003

Tirerack comments/reviews on the Mich Harmony look good for a 4 season tire.
Any real world experience out there with the Harmony? Is it it too good to be true: an "all-season" that wears well, good on snow/ice and wet and dry ?
Our Mich Symmetrys are wearing to the marker after only 14K of on road, non-aggressive use on an all wheel drive.
Thx.

bretfraz · June 2003

No, unfortunately. 6 lug LT wheels off a SUV.

zueslewis · June 2003

kidevo1 · July 2003

I really wish ebay had a better system for penalizing people who bag out at the end of auctions.

I had a guy screw me over on a laptop once. Sure..I got my listing refunded and the guy's ID was eventually banned. But...even with all the time spent, it can feel like losing money. I eventually sold it a week later.

I would love to see people take a hit on their personal credit report or an automatic system for billing someones credit card directly when cases like this happen.

Sure you can leave negative feed back for someone...but whats the point if someone never bids again with that ID anyways and just uses a different one.

capriracer · July 2003

I tried to buy something from a fellow in Mooresville - no state - just Mooresville. Sent a message to find out what state, never got a reply. Put in a bid in the last hour with a note that the bid was dependent on Mooresville being the one near me. Won the auction and then the guy responded to my question - 500 miles away! Couldn't conclude the transaction.

Then he was upset when I left a neutral rating.

toydriver · July 2003

Looking to replace original Bridgestone Dueler H/T tires for wife's '01 RX. I know Michelin LTX and Cross Terrain, B'stone new H/L and Goodyear Integrity are all-season tires made for this Lexus. We live in a northern climate and have snow and wet to deal with 3-4 months. Want quiet smooth ride.
Any RX owners experienced with other tire brands?
Any input appreciated.

1badsidekick · July 2003

Yes yes...off topic I know, but let me fill ya on what I know. If someone has a certain ID, does something bad and receives negative feedback, and then registers a new ID (given that the person enters the same contact information such as email, phone, address, etc) they will still have the negative feedback on there. It won't let you get away from it unless you put down all new information, which is downright dishonest. I know this because my dad decided to change his ID. He entered in the same contact information as his other ID, and then we noticed he still had the same feedback rating. Being as this is the tires thread, this is where I shall tie in something on topic. At that time, (spring '02), dad had an '84 GT Mustang, and he wanted to ditch the original metric wheels/tires. The only tires that would fit that wheel was a michelin that was annually rising in cost, at that point it had reached $175 per tire. Dad said the car was barely worth $1000, so to spend $700 on tires was rediculous. So we began a search for the standard 15 inch 4 lug wheel that came on mustangs from 79-93. Dad knew that I was a big fan of ebay, so he got on there, registered himself, and bid on a set of wheels and tires, $105 for the whole shebang. AFTER the auction, the seller, who hadn't had the shipping cost posted on the ad at all...sent and email demanding $50 per wheel and tire...thats $200 MORE than the bid of $105, which was insane. Dad refused to pay that, so the guy posted negative feedback, which gave dad a rating of negative 1 (-1) When dad re-registered, he still had that feedback. On a postive note, I found the same set of wheels at the local salvage yard and paid 25 bucks each for the wheels and the old tires that were on them, then took those to the garage and had brand new Mastercraft Syntis..or something like that, put on them for about $200. Not bad. Now I'll return you to your regularly scheduled tire programming.

ashutoshsm · July 2003

There's a feature on the Selling page (when you log in) that lets you offer the item to the second highest bidder, if the first deal falls through, or buyer reneges. I don't remember the details, but I bought something this way once despite losing the auction

For $10 or so less than the original winning bid. I didn't complain

sddlw · July 2003

I've got a couple of questions for the tire experts here. I just replaced a set of Michlin MXV4-Energy 205/60-16 original tires mounted on 7" wide rims with a new set of Bridgestone Turanza LS-V 225/55-16s. Before doing this I checked with several local tire stores including a performance shop who's opinion and work I've come to respect. I also checked the Tire Rack and MFGs web pages for specifications. The Bridgestone 225/55-16s looked like a great tire, offering an almost exact RPM match to the OEM tires and are speced out for 6-8" wide rims with 7" being right in the middle. OK so far, so good. I had them put on last week. Very nice ride. Very quiet. Good all round handling. I'm very pleased so far.

But..... This is a really odd thing and really difficult to describe. The way they mounted on my rims looks odd. When I've gone with slightly oversized (1-up) tires in the past, the tire bulges slightly from the rim as you move down the sidewall, as you would expect, but the tire side wall fits snug and tight into the rim, with no rubber ledge protruding at the point it touches the rim. These Turanzas have a 1/4" ledge of tire protruding from the rim. Right at a 90 degree angle to the rim. It looks like the tire sidewall actually has a ledge going in towards the center of the tire and the rim is sitting on the ledge, 1/4" in from the outside of the sidewall. The tires are not leaking air. They seem to handle fine. It is just something I've never seen before. I can't imagine what this might look like on 6" rims, which are still within the specs of the tire. Should I question this?

Other question. I park next to my wife's car. She has Dunlop 8000 Sports 225/50-16 on 7.5" wide rims. I swear these tires are significantly wider than my 225 Bridgesones. I got out my tape measure. At the widest point in the sidewalls, we're talking 8/10's of an inch difference. So the question is, where exactly is the 225 measurement being taken from and how much deviation is there from a nominal 225 mm on various manufacturers and tires?

malachy72 · July 2003

me right. I had a blowout on a Michelin radial I bought there in Feb of '01. I didn't realize I had put 27k on the tire. When the nice fellow in the bay gave me an allowance for the tire he put that the tire had 75% tread life left.

I ended up paying less than 19 bucks for a new bridgestone mounted and balanced.

Maybe it was because I told him I didn't care if he replaced the tire with Michelin? I had Bridgies on the 2 fronts.

capriracer · July 2003

Perhaps someone in the retail end of the business will correct me if I am wrong, but I'll bet the "ledge" you are talking about is actually an area of the sidewall that has been thickened to protect the rim. On some of the flangeless wheels, the wheels are what stick out furthest and they are what gets damaged when you bump into a curb, not the sidewall. So the idea is to make the sidewall protrude beyond the wheel and that's what strikes first.

Your second question: Tire dimensions are not regulated. That means a 225 wide tire might not be 225.00 mm wide. There are no tolerances and it is up to the discretion of the tire manufacturer. I know of one tire manufacturer who has produced 4 different sizes out of the same dimensional tire.

There is another problem - the size is more like a name. For example a P205/65R15 is really a P208 / 66.2 R 14.97. These are the nominal dimensions and are some pretty good reasons to make tires close to those nominal dimensions. There are also some pretty good reasons to make tires different from those dimensions.

Confusing? Yup! But that's the way it is!!

Hope this helps.

sddlw · July 2003

Thanks for the info.

Interesting. Are tires like these Turanzas very common? I don't recall seeing this before. Seems like a good idea though. And my wheels are flangeless, so maybe this will help prevent a future scrape.

I knew that the stated width was a nominal dimension, but it was quite a shock to see these Dunlops and Bridgestones side by side, both named 225s.

aveman · July 2003

Yokohama has some very good info on tires. I think what you are refering to that is different is the tread width. It varies based on tire design. The 225 number is section width. Check out tire info and wheel and tire info under customizing.

http://yokohamatire.com/csunderstand.asp

sandman46 · July 2003

My Sentra has 195/60/15's on there now and the ride is pretty good. When I do decide to change tires, which won't be for a long while, I would like to go with a wider or taller sidewall in probaly a 65 series tire. I did this on the wifes Altima, 205/60/15's to 205/65/15's and I think the ride has improved. The tire seems a bit taller and hopefully won't hit the car going over bumps when we load it up in August.
What size would be appropriate in a 65 series tire? Bret you will probaly have he corect answer as you did last time. But any feedback from others here would be greatly appreciate.

The Sandman :-)

(P.S.- The tire store put on my wifes receipt that I knowingly switched tire size different from the manufacturers OEM tire. This was probaly a cya to protect themselves in case of problems later on, since they can say "I" wanted to switch tire sizes.)

bretfraz · July 2003

The ledge you describe is called a Rim Guard or a rim protector bar. Its supposed to do the exact job you mentioned - protect the rim's edge from curb scrapes. My Potenza RE950's have it as do Potenza Pole Positions and a number of other models and brands. A nice feature that I've yet to try out.

bretfraz · July 2003

I'm glad to hear the Conti's on the Altima are working well for you.

You certainly can do the same thing, go to 195/65 on the Sentra. There are tons of tires to choose from in that size.

Going to a 185/65 would also work well although the selection does not seem to be as large. Still, this size should fit fine and do the job you want it to.

sandman46 · July 2003

Once again, I knew you'd have the answer, You are definitely the Tire god! I am not worthy!!! (he he).
Thanks again and hope all is well with you and the family. Regards.

The Sandman :-)

( Will the 195/65/15's be that much taller than the 195/60/15's? I think, by just looking, that I'd have enough room in the wheel wells.)

capriracer · July 2003

This is something that has evolved over the last few years and seems to be catching on. I think its usage will stay with high performance tires, especially those with very low aspect ratios, since flangeless wheels don't usually appear on low end vehicles. Plus there is some cost associated with it that just doesn't make sense for a regular, price sensitive, all season tire.

ashutoshsm · July 2003

My Falkens (ZIEX ZE 512) have kept my Konig Heliums flawless through almost 10K of DC Metro driving and loads of parallel parking. I'll definitely observe the benefits of the feature when I put my wheels/tires up for sale (perhaps ebay)

sgrd0q · July 2003

WHat exactly is it? Is it the width as measured by the contact with the road (as I always thought it was), or is it the width from one side wall to the other? If the latter is the case, then is the tire under load or not when measuring? For tires with soft sidewall will appear wider in this case.

aveman · July 2003

Section width is not the contact area that meets the road. That is the tread width. Section width is the cross section measure of the tire at it's widest point. I am not a tire expert, I posted a link above to yokohamatires. the understanding tires and wheels section gives a lot of info. You may have to click around some, but it is worth it.Another example go to Bridgestone/Firestones site and click on some specs for their tires of the same size. They list section and tread widths for most models. They even list weights for some models.

sgrd0q · July 2003

I am about to buy 4 Michelin Tires online. The seller states tires were new and never mounted. However they don't have the big white stickers on the thread. His explanation is that he sells wholesale, and therefore his tires come without this sticker. I am wondering if this is credible - I thought the manufacturer (in this case Michelin) places the sticker, not the retail store. Does anybody know?

Thanks!

bretfraz · July 2003

I'm pretty darned sure the stickers are installed at the factory. Someone must have taken them off at some point. Prolly not a big deal unless you need that info for some reason. If the price is right and the tires are new, I wouldn't worry too much. But that's just me.

stickguy · July 2003

I would bet they were take-offs of some kink (new car swap out, or a tried out and returned) so they may not technically be "new", but may have very few miles on them.

As long as they aren't factory rejects, wouldn't be a concern if the price was real good.

I did use the 30 day return policy at a local tire dealer recently. Just didn't like the first set I bought, so I returned them for a different brand. They always had a few sets on sale at a decent discount, clearly labeled as swap outs.

capriracer · July 2003

Just to expand on what Aveman said:

Section width is the width of the cross section. It is measured at the widest point excluding ornamentation (lettering. curb ribs, etc.). It is measured unloaded, 24 hours after initial inflation, when most of the growth will have occurred. BTW, tires will grow a bit even after the 24 hour measurement AND since tires generate heat (and therefore, more inflation pressure) during operation, they will be a bit bigger then as well.

This kind of brings us back to the size thing: A P205/65R15 is nominally 209 mm wide. This means the size is more of a name. AND!!! Tire manufacturers can make the tire any dimension they want, although they usually stay close to the nominal dimenaions for obvious reasons. But I do know of one manufacturer who uses 1 tire to cover up to 4 sizes. Same tire, different labels.

Hope this helps.

sgrd0q · July 2003

capriracer, aveman, thanks for your explanation, regarding section width.

bretfraz, stickguy - thanks guys. I think I'll stay away from these tires. If the seller told me they were new car swap out, or tried out and returned tires I would have been happy buying them. But he claims they were never mounted, so A) he is lying or

they are factory rejects (assuming sticker comes from the factory), or C) stolen from the factory before stickers were put on (again assuming the sticker actually comes from the factory). I don't like any of the three cases so I'll pass. Thanks for your help!

adp3 · July 2003

I've got a 2000 JXI convertible (the OE tire is a Michelin XGT4; 16 inch), and am ready to replace the tires. Any recommendations? 90% of my miles are at 70 mph on the freeway, and when I am off the freeway, I drive pretty aggressively.

I live in the SF Bay Area, so inclement weather isn't an issue (just a little seasonal rain).

Some time ago bretfraz recommended a few tires to me
A few good sporty/performance choices are:
Dunlop SP Sport A2
Yokohama Avid H4
Bridgestone Potenza RE950
If you want a smoother, touring tire:
Bridgestone Turanza LSH
Pirelli P6 Four Season
Michelin Energy MXV4 Plus

I have to say buying tires is a mystery to me

I visited tire rack.com

What do you think of Bridgestone Potenza S-03 Pole Position? Too much tire for the car? Is the Bridgestone Potenza RE950 a better fit?

bretfraz · July 2003

Wow, I remember discussing this months ago.

Anyway, you've listed the most competitive tires in their classes. I don't think you'll be unhappy with any of them.

I do think the Pole Positions are too much tire for freeway cruising. For canyon carving they're awesome. But for daily driving I think they'll wear quickly and be expensive.

I have the RE950's on my Saab and love em. The Dunlop is a direct competitor and its almost a coin toss between them. I think either will give you the response you want along with some tread life and a reasonably smooth ride. Those two are my recommendations but my money is where my mouth is so my vote is for the RE950's.

adp3 · July 2003

thanks for the guidance

(you are right - it was April, I believe)

adp3 · July 2003

I was tied up with vacation planning, work travel, and working my ### off just trying to get out of town for both.

Am now back and turning some attention to more domestic pursuits. (and I was waiting to see what the mysterious fluid leaks were - I am knocking wood as I write this - but Chryusler seems to have stopped all the leaks)

transmission line leaked AND radiator plug leaked

argh

adp3 · July 2003

can someone direct me to the guidance on the best approach to buying tires?

(online ordering with delivery to a local shop?)

zueslewis · July 2003

then take them to Wal-Mart...it's what I did with my last tire purchase.

bretfraz · July 2003

Ordering from TR is fine but I suggest having them mounted and balanced at the best tire/alignment joint in town. Find the place all the Porsche and BMW guys take their cars to. Or the place the local SCCA parking lot racers use for help with tires and suspensions. Shops like that are very experienced in getting your tires mounted and balanced perfectly.

When I bought my RE950s thru Costco I had a local chain joint mount them for $50. Did an OK job but I noticed a little pulsing sound as they wore. After some digging I found a place that has a rep for doing awesome work on suspensions and such as well as sell tires. Had my tires balanced and rotated and after 1000 miles my car rides and handles noticeably better.

Granted European sport sedans have more sophisticated suspensions and are more sensitive to properly balanced wheels but I think any car can benefit from this. Its worth it to ask around IMO.

ryoken · July 2003

The SCCA parking lot racers in my area talk about buying via TireRack and mounting at Costco.

I've also heard mention of a Hunter balance machine that does road-force balancing -- supposed to be better than the standard tire balancing for providing a smooth ride. These machines seem to be at various independent shops as well as a few Discount Tire stores.

I have Turanza's on my car. They're excellent for a comfortable, quiet ride on the freeway, but fall a little short when it comes time to grip around a corner -- not bad, just not great.

imidazol97 · July 2003

Does anyone know the cost of force balancing vs regular quality spin balancing?
I had been having wheel balanced on the pay once and rebalance/rotate
for life of tires. But I wonder about the cost of force balancing and if they
offer lifetime balancing when force balance equipment is used.

Since tires seem to change when first mounted, I'd wait a couple thousand miles
before spending a larger fee for balancing. My dealer used forced balancing to
quiet the tires on my 03, but said the car manufacturer prefers to wait until at minimum
1500 miles before goes through a process to troubleshoot tire/wheel problems
causing vibrations.

raydahs · July 2003

IMIDAZOL97 - I had mine done for $10.00 a wheel at my local Lexus dealer, use the "locate a GSP9700" link to find a shop near you. I have aftermarket rims, which had a terrible shimmy at @55 mph. Lexus dealers treated me well although I own a different brand. The balancing lasted for about 15k miles. Good luck!

http://www.hunter.com/pub/product/product.htm

adp3 · July 2003

http://128.242.141.111/pub/search/findgsp9700.cfm

is the link to search for a GSP9700 shop

hlsjr1 · July 2003

I am about to replace the standard Michelin MXV4 tires that came with my 01' 4 matic wagon. I want an all season tire for here in Massachusetts. Handling , comfort and low road noise are important. Any suggestions? I am not convinced that Michelin is the way to go, but not familiar with the other makes that would be a good fit for this car. Any and all comments and suggestions are welcome.

pluto5 · July 2003

We get less snow here than in Mass. but I would get two sets of tires including a set of winter tires. The difference in snow and ice is amazing. For the price of the generally overrated Michelins you can almost pay for two sets of Kumhos from Tirerack.

bretfraz · July 2003

I'd buy the Nokian WR. For me its as simple as that. I wouldn't mess with $60 tires unless you'll be selling the car soon.

ashutoshsm · July 2003

I wouldn't mess with $60 tires unless you'll be selling the car soon.

I follow this discussion, and value the opinions and help doled out by some of the regular/experts here, including you. I would however like to pipe in and let people know how much better I think my "cheap" Falken tires were in EVERY respect (wear, dry traction, wet traction, snow traction) than my "overrated" Michelin MXH4 (the H rated version of the MXV4). I've lost count of how many people have taken my advice, and/or ridden in my car and made the switch to "cheap" tires.

Cheap tires have come a long way, and are sold directly through distribution channels. They're also undercutting the big guns to get a toe-hold in the market. I'd take advantage of this consumer-friendly situation, even if its at the cost of not buying locally, but online instead. And I already did, once. And will again.

Just my 2 cents

(So don't knock te Kumhos, Sumitomos, Falkens, Toyos etc)

bretfraz · July 2003

Everyone's entitled to their opinion, as I am to mine. I've altered my opinions on cheap tires as my knowledge of them expands. But it depends on the exact tire and application.

I'm glad you're happy with the Falkens than your old Michelins but that doesn't make Falken a better tire mfr than Michelin. All it means is that the Falkens work better for you in your application. Nothing wrong with that as long as everyone is crystal clear about the situation.

I don't give out advise simply based on my personal experiences. If I did I'd have almost nothing to say as I rarely buy new tires. The Bridgestone's I bought earlier this year were the first set of new tires I'd bought since 1992. So clearly my opinions are derived from sources other than my personal experiences.

The main difference between my advice and the advice I see from some of the others is that I listen to what the person is saying and try to give them advice on what's best for their needs, instead of me just telling them whatever.

I'm NOT a tire expert - I've never claimed to be one - I don't play a tire expert on TV. Don't substitute my judgement on tires for your own.

leadfoot4 · July 2003

...on "cheap" tires. I recently replaced a set of Continential tires with Falkens.

At one time, I thought that Continental was a "good" tire, since they are OE on a lot of high end European cars. Not so, IMHO.

I had a problem, and their customer service was terrible. And, when they finally agreed to replace the bad tire, I compared the tread depth of the 3 old ones to the new one, and it was amazingly bad, with only 7000 miles on the tires.

I'm much happier with the Falkens (Ziex 512)that I bought, thank you very much.

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