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Acura MDX (pre-2007)
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The ride and handling fully loaded is fantastic. I owned a '98 4Runner Ltd. When I added two adults there was an immediate degradation in handling and acceleration, it was really noticeable.
I have had my MDX for two weeks . On this trip a noticed a rattle on the lower left side when traveling over a bumpy/rough road at 50 mph.
Anyone else have this problem?
I will take it to my Acura Dlr. for a checkup.
This is the only defect I have encounted on my MDX.
Drew, is Lexol your leather cleaner & conditioner of choice? Easy to use? (I know your photo album has pictures of your "supply chain.) Are there any tricks in cleaning perforated leather (e.g. does cleaning residue get trapped inside the holes)?
On vehicle quality & reliability, besides Consumer Reports, the JD Power web site might help some prospective shoppers here. They have a nice tool on the website that lets you look up quality survey results for various vehicles.
Quality categories consist of mechanical quality, feature & accessory quality, and body & interior quality. They have initial results (from their Initial Quality Surveys), and sometimes mid-term and long-term results from their surveys.
Obviously the MDX is too new for any results on their site. However, there are results for 2000 model year RX300's, QX4's, ML320's, etc.
Somewhat disquieting are the low scores for the Honda Odyssey -- which of course the MDX is based on, and made at the same Canadian plant. Strangely enough, they don't correlate with Consumer Reports' numbers (especially compared to other vehicles I looked at), so perhaps it's better to average the two surveys out to get an overall view, and make your own decision on relevance.
The JD Power web site (www.jdpower.com) also has a better reporting of sales than AutoSite's, IMHO. If you switch the segments from "all segments" to "luxury SUV's", you'll find some 2,458 MDX's sold in October (I'll bet production, set for around 40k in the first year, couldn't make more than that amount).
Drew/aling
Townhall Community Leader/Vans Conference
Scubaflex: I live in South Florida and have been using my A/C. It works great! My kids have even complained that it gets too cold for them and I turn off the rear A/C.
Jdford: Do you live anywhere near South Florida? I would love to have some help putting the protection on my MDX. Would a dealer do that for me?
lauriebr: I hope that all works out with your purchase. I think that I posted a while ago my bad experience with Delray Acura. They are the closest dealer to me and I gave them a deposit in early July. After repeated contact with them I started to realize that they were less then honest. Before they would give me a VIN# or tell me when my MDX was coming they wanted me to sign the paperwork that apparently committed me to buying from them. I refused, found another dealer (Palm Beach Acura) who was great and got my MDX at sticker price. Delray Acura did give me back my deposit. I sent my husband in to get it and the scene that he described was not very pleasant. Good luck.
After realising that I might need to look elsewhere for my MDX I contacted Jamie Stockman. I found his e-mail address on this site and he was great. He said that he can usually get an MDX for sticker price and have it sent for no additional charge thru local Acura dealers. He had a wait for the color that I wanted so I looked elsewhere. One last thing, now that good grammar seems to be an important on this site is there a way to do grammar check? I usually post late at night after a long day with my three young and very active children. so I am going to apologize for any mistakes.
scott902: The naked sides of my new pride and joy makes me nervous too, even with the running boards, which don't offer much in the way of protection. Based on some recent Town Hall posts on the subject, along with a photo of an MDX with a strip of Pro Stripe side protection moulding installed, I've decided to go the same route. I found a Pro Stripe distributor/installer in San Jose who appears to make a living selling and installing Pro Stripe. He has special measuring tools to guarantee that it goes on straight and further gaurantees it will stay put for the life of the car. With the black rack, dark moon roof visor and black tailgate deflector on top of my GG MDX, coupled with the black running boards on the bottom, a strip of black Pro Stripe on each side should blend right in. It's going to cost me a total of about $130 for the moulding and installation. Yes, I could probably install it and do a decent job of getting it straight if I were to do the job myself. But after spending well over $40K for the MDX, I see the additional $130 as chump change.
I just love SUVs, MDX, ML and just saw the new
Toyota Sequioa on cable TV, they claim it competes with the Naviagator...I am suprised, since it does not appear that large. However the 3rd row seat was the most amazing, they are on tracks and can be pushed into the cabinet and up horizontal.
Will be anxious to see a year later on the report card of the MDX, a year from now.
let me know how it goes with the installation of the side protection molding. I'm also concerned about the lack of protection on the MDX and am considering the alternatives.
Scott902...In my experience, the 3M adhesive tape sticks forever and does not damage the paint. I have never had a problem with it.
on their MDX and know how to bypass the immobilizer system for this purpose? I am considering remote start but have not seen anything on this subject.
I do think the 2nd row backrests are too flat (too much zealousness in getting them to fold down for the design they used), they need more padding or something (the RX300's are much more cushy, and if you're accustomed to those, they'll definitely fall short).
Did you try different angles of the backrest (it will accommodate a pretty wide range of angle adjustment)?
Kids may not care as much; look at the seats they sit in at school! I assume most of your kids are older, since there are booster seats that go up to 80-100 lbs. and add a nice degree of safety.
If the MDX doesn't work for you, would you consider an ML320? Not as wide as the MDX, but 3 kids should fit into the back with no problems, and still leave a LOT of cargo room behind the second row. The ML320's seats are excellent (front and back) and a retrofit for child-proof locks are now available (now it just needs a door-ajar light).
PS -- This is one of the best forums I've found in Town Hall -- it's informative and not overly focused on the virtues of the subject vehicle. Kudos to WMQUAN as being most responsible for setting and keeping this tone.
Earlier M-class problems (fuel pump, squeaks) have been eliminated with a redesign of a the fuel sending unit/pump + a significant upgrade of the interior trim and other components. Things are completely different now than they were back in 1997. I think that both '01 models should probably at least be equally reliable.
I'm not sure why you would say that living in the Vancouver area has something to do with reliability because it doesn't. If the truck has problems, you still have to bring it in. A helpful and accomodating service department helps, but if the product itself is defective, that doesn't really stop it from breaking down.
With the 2nd row seats folded, the ML actually has slightly more room than the MDX (85 vs 82 cu.ft) . With the 2nd row seat up, the MDX wins because of its wider stance and few inches extra length.
Good luck with your decision!
Drew/aling
Townhall Community Leader/Vans Conference
For example, if the FSS counter is at 18K miles to Service A, you can squeeze more than three 5000 miles oil changes or more than five 3500 mile oil changes for other vehicles (!) before the ML needs to go in for its first scheduled oil change! Not bad at all.
The fact that these scheduled services are free for the first 4 years/50K miles is another bonus.
Just food for thought!
Near as I can tell, there is a detector module that "communicates" with the PCM which in turn allows the fuel pump to come on. If the communication is flawed (bad key or disconnected detector) no fuel. If it were as easy as jumpering the detector to give you a switch closure it would work, but it appears to be a "converstation" between the modules.
Of course, you could just hang the key near the switch, and still start it remotely. The immobilizer is independent of the ignition switch (at least electrically). You might need to have it actually in the ignition, to get the correct geometric alignment of the key and the transponder/detector, so you could have a key made up which wont actually turn over the engine (ie blank), but would just sit in the switch. Once your car is started, you switch to the "real" key when you enter the car, unlock the wheel and off you go.
Having never installed one, can't tell you if it will work with the ignition switch. I do see that the wire harness connector is just under the dash. The service manual should give you all the connections and switch logic you need.
Personally, I need a really good reason before I go splicing into a new car's harnesses...
Ard
Who and where in San Jose is this Pro Stripe distributor/installer who appears to make a living selling and installing Pro Stripe and would you recommend him/her? TIA
rxcure, I see! Yes, that armrest in the retracted position can be a problem. There's very little to do if one does find it uncomfortable. You can change the recline of the 60% portion of the second row seat, use a booster for the youngest child in that position until he or she outgrows it, and/or look into a sheepskin cover or a simple pad for long trips.
If you're very cautious about reliability, both the ML320 and MDX suffer. The ML320 has improved, but it has been a (too?) long and difficult road. However, it's probably acceptable for many buyers now, at least in this class of vehicle. It was our second choice behind the MDX.
You can consult the JD Power link I mentioned before to look up the M-class and other vehicles at:
http://www.jdpower.com/auto/jdpa_ratings/FindJdAwards.jsp
According to an article, the first-half model year 2000 M-class vehicles were very close to the level of average reliability. Certainly an improvement but probably not impressive to an RX300 owner (Consumer Reports rates the RX300 as "average," curiously, but JD Power rates its quality quite high). Also a bit worrisome since 2000 was its third model year (e.g. how many years should it take? -- the fuel pump problem Drew mentioned wasn't fixed, unfortunately, until approximately the middle of the 2000 model year).
The Honda Odyssey, which of course the MDX is based on and made at the same plant as, scores "above average" with Consumer Reports but doesn't fare well with JD Power. There are quite a few posts about Odyssey problems here on Edmunds.
Hopefully some greater effort has been put in the MDX but only time will tell; industry average has always had first-year quality lower than subsequent years, and I suspect the MDX may well score only "average" in the first year. However, I also suspect its "upside" (its potential to be "above average") is better than the ML320, based on historical precedent, even in a younger vehicle.
(For myself, I had told myself I'd never buy another vehicle that didn't have top-notch reliability. The MDX is certainly somewhat of a risk, taken partly because we had to buy a vehicle this year - first baby - and because we wanted something bigger and a bit more "lively" than the RX. If it wasn't for the baby, I would have waited for MDX year 2.)
Three kids in an Odyssey is a definite problem. I hope that perhaps the Sequoia could meet your needs and desires, maybe it'll surprise you (too big and too much of a true truck for us). Reliability should be very good, even in its first model year and being built domestically. Good luck.
Drew, yes, I had studied the FSS intervals and free MB maintenance when we were calculating cost-of-ownership for the ML320.
Normal oil change intervals for the MDX is 7,500 miles, actually. While the MB service interval can be up to 18k miles, I suspect its average is significantly lower than that. So the difference in the number of oil changes is probably not as dramatic as what you mentioned, though clearly there'd be more oil changes for the MDX. Of course, with the MDX, they are not free as with the M-class.
However, our problem was that we had hoped to keep our new vehicle for seven or eight years. Once the 4-year M-class free maintenance period expires, the services become rather expensive (certainly more so than MDX maintenances, which in themselves are not cheap either).
You may recall I pulled up prices from around the U.S. on respective dealer web sites, and they were eye-opening. E.g. $188 for what's just an oil & filter change, fluid top-off, and general diagnostic, or $394 to do all that, plus change the wipers and rotate the wheels and lube the throttle linkage.
Then I was very fearful of the relatively high prices of MB center labor and, even more so, the cost of MB parts, for items not covered in the warranty. The extended warranty is a few hundred to $500 more expensive for the M-class, though one is available to 8/100 rather than Acura's 7/100, useful for lower-mileage drivers.
So, net-net, I think that FSS is great, and that the ML320 has low operating costs as a lease vehicle or a vehicle owned for 3-4 years. Beyond that, I thought the operating costs began to reverse and eventually wash out, or come close to it.
Of course, if Acura does try to change the normal VTM fluid change interval (no proof of this, though), the numbers change somewhat.
Other cost-of-ownership numbers include insurance (M-class seems to have slightly cheaper premiums for most folks) and gas (while the C&D test actually had a slighly higher mileage result for the ML320, over the long run the MDX should prevail -- and both use premium).
7500 miles for the MDX is not under the severe category, is it? That seems rather long for a non-FSS equipped vehicle. I'd probably go for an oil change every 5500 kms. Also, I've heard from several sources (one of them being Motoring 2001, and the other Driver's Seat - both Canadian automotive shows) saying that all vehicles in Canada should follow the "severe" schedule due to our environment/climate.
As for the FSS, it truly depends on your driving habits, terrain, climate, etc. The computer takes all of this into account. In my case, I do a lot of hill climbing everyday (which is why my fuel economy is only usually 15-16 mpg) so the max FSS readout I've managed to get for the ML is 15K.
As a general rule, most European vehicles (especially BMW) are more expensive to maintain than Japanese vehicles, so it's not really surprising that the prices that you saw were in that range. FWIW, have a look at this CAA independent study on MB Canada parts pricing. It compares MB Canada parts to other Japanese/European/American manufacturers:
http://www.mercedes.ca/English/html/news/news_latest_37.html
FYI, apparently there is some kind of Canadian law which prohibits car dealerships from selling vehicles above MSRP. :-) Of course, it doesn't stop them from making up bogus charges (ex. Reputation fee. Huh??).
Drew/aling
Townhall Community Leader/Vans Conference
But my paycheck still comes in U.S. dollars, regardless of whether I buy Japanese, German, Swedish, Korean, etc. ;-)
7,500 miles is the normal oil change schedule for the MDX, as recommended by Acura. I don't think that Acura would risk problems if 7,500 miles wasn't practical (and in fact most intervals have a bit of a safety margin built in because many people procrastinate and/or are just too busy).
Dealers here (Seattle area, which, as we discussed yesterday, is actually a notch or two milder than your climate, and certainly a lot milder than the Canadian average) usually recommend following the severe maintenance schedule. However, their motivation is quite obvious -- it produces significantly more revenue for them. They're playing on people's fears.
The owner's manual clearly states the conditions that should lead to someone following the severe maintenance schedule. The key is whether or not one "primarily" drives in those conditions.
Everyone occasionally drives under one or more of
the severe conditions, but that doesn't warrant the severe maintenance schedule, at least according to the manufacturer.
Obviously some owners will be more cautious and change the oil more frequently. That's not unlike how I've read that some MB owners get their oil changed in advance of FSS recommendation, even though FSS checks the quality of the current oil (great feature).
Caution may not simply be because of oil -- some folks just prefer a general diagnostic more frequently than every 7,500 miles (for the MDX, or 10k-13k average for the ML). Especially if they're not automotively inclined. The extra diagnostics might not be a bad move on a first-year vehicle like the MDX, or on a vehicle with the quality history of the ML. Of course, such extra visits will have to be paid for (M-class free maintenance for 4 years wouldn't apply to non-FSS-scheduled maintenance). That affects cost of ownership, more so for ML owners since the MB visits are significantly more expensive.
Yeah ... you can tell that I really pinch pennies ... if this keeps up I'll never buy a German car.
Heh heh, people in other parts of Canada call the NorthWest mild. We're like Arizona compared to the rest of Canada ;-)
Yup, "reputation fee" was a new one to me too. One of the salesguy mentioned it in a W5 undercover (hidden cam) investigation. There was also the salesguy who refused to give the MSRP of a Mazda MPV until the buyers (undercover APA people wearing the hidden cams) agreed to purchase the vehicle!! Both of these salesmen (among others shown in that W5 segment) were working at dealerships in the Greater Vancouver area.
Did you know that Vancouver is the worse place in Canada to buy a vehicle? Apparently people get cheated here the most here according to the Automobile Protection Agency (www.apa.ca). I believe Toronto or Calgary are both hot spots too.
I wonder what the Canadian owner's manual for the MDX calls for as far as maintenance goes? Would it be the severe schedule only? Could be, especially since the rest of Canada is pretty much covered with the slippery white stuff while we only get the clear wet stuff falling from the sky. BTW, is the oil change/service schedule for your MDX same as your Integra?
Yup, some owners change their oil ahead of the FSS recommendation. MB actually knows that their vehicles can go longer than 18K without an oil change, but they know that North American consumers are conditioned to change the oil every 3K miles and already have problems accepting even 10K miles for the shortest oil change interval. So even with the FSS's recommendation, there is some margin for error. European owners, OTOH, have readily accepted the FSS for several years now.
Drew/aling
Townhall Community Leader/Vans Conference
P.S. Keep your eye on the Driving Unlimited website for next year's advanced driving class schedule. They conduct some of these courses at the Seattle International Raceway (I'm sure you know where that is) and you may be interested in attending. It's a steal at only CDN$59 for the collision avoidance course.
Thanks!!
Note - You won't have much buying leverage with that approach but you could get lucky.
Jeff
it's got dealer reviews , you can do search by state and see if there is a good dealer near you.
Onto my questions - at the dealer I turned down the $695 inside/outside protective coatings. Was I right, that the coatings don't do much - or should I spend the $695 and get them? Also, they wanted $1600 to $2300 for the 3 years additional extended warrenty - I declined - as I wondered if I should look elsewhere to get the same thing cheaper?
Thanks everyone.
PS, I paid for it today - but won't get in in person for a few more days - it had all the plastic on it, and they need to install the options. Should have 11 miles on the odometer when I get it.
For only $695 I'd jump on it- especially since they only got $2k over MSRP for the vehicle, plus the gouging on the accessories.
You should keep in mind that the TRUE price for the accessories is (parts department price) plus (service department labor time) multiplied by (the hourly rate). Just about all dealerships charge more than this amount. Just because Sunnyvales price is close to the website, and other dealers charge more, does not mean it is a good deal. This is not "priced right". You might have missed the pricing fiasco that was uncovered the beginning of October... All dealerships will sell parts out of the parts department and the service guys will install them. Trick is to get the sales guys to sell you the vehicle first.
The extended warranty is a steal at $2300. Maybe they'll do both for $2990?
Cynically yours,
Ard
PS. Check old messages- 6 year/100k/0 deduct for $1175 I believe...but it is real inconvenient-you'll need to call another dealership, mail checks, etc. Way too much work to save $1000.
Excuse me. The holiday beer is talking. The supply vs. demand thing is *so* evil.
8-)
Ard
I'm holding my stance on not paying over MSRP (its a principle thing). I've been waiting since early October. This dude probably just found out about the MDX from the MT article and decided he wanted a MDX. He is willing to pay well over MSRP and will most likely "cut" ahead of me on the waiting list because of it. I'll be left waiting that much longer.
(marksmac... nothing personal... I'm just making a idealistic statement.)
I believe folks need to see how they are getting screwed by some dealerships- if they choose to live in denial and justify the prices by: "well, whats 2k on a 40k purchase, or "well they didn't lie, they always told me it was 2k over msrp" or "my time is too important to save $2000 by driving 100 miles" That is their choice.
Just don't look for validation here. Delude yourself, but don't ask us to participate.
The sarcasm was thrown in for free.
Ard
PS I also agree with foobarguy on the virtue of holding to MSRP. I am pretty sure Sunnyvale acura is selling MDXs out from under folks on the waiting list to those willing to pay 2k over MSRP. This is unethical. (Of course, not to they guy willing to spend the extra 2k, just to the guy who put down a deposit in July.)
instead; just up 101 from Sunnyvale.
They have 3 or 4 available and will only charge
you $4k over STICKER [corrected] if you get there fast enough.
No options required -- a great deal.
Everyone should show some self-restraint and tell
dealers charging MSRP++ to shove it. Period.
My buying experience was very positive. After calling every dealer in MA, RI and NH one day, I located a silver w/navi at Sunnyside in Nashua, NH. The MDX was offered at msrp with free wheel locks and mud guards as requested. I ordered a hitch ($320) and the coolers will be installed tomorrow cortesy of ACS. Coming from Boston and armed with my plates and registration in advance courtesy of my cooperative insurance agent, I bought an $8.50 one-way bus ticket for the 50 mile ride to Nashua and picked up the MDX within 3 days of my initial call to salesperson Ms. Chris Miller who even got my financing approved via phone and fax. Thanks to the many folks who posted suggestions and to a reasonable dealer, we've had an excellent MDX experience so far.
Congrats on your new MDX! Did you put it on order or did you just do a call-around and manage to get lucky with Sunnyside? If via order, what were order and available dates? Is it a base or touring?
Thanks
Factory Roof Rack. Has anyone managed to find a fit kit from Thule or Yakima to attach a ski rack?
Have one of each and prefer to stay away from
Acura's markup.
Thule/Yakima have no data yet in their corporate sites about 2001 MDX but I'm sure that some fit kit they already make will work.
Regarding the hitch, I expect to tow only bikes on a rack and did not opt for the coolers. However,due to the warranty issue, I called ACS and, like others here have stated, they refused to do anything except refer me back to the dealer. Sunnyside contacted ACS and within two hours, advised me that I could have the coolers installed at no charge. I was quite persistent with ACS and didn't need to be with Sunnyside on this issue.
On the way back up Hwy 5 yesterday afternoon we were passed by another black MDX. Add that to the original black and silver MDX's that I saw in early Oct that makes 5 black, 2 silver, and 1 beige.
No wonder I can't get my GG/tour/Nav. All they seem to be shipping to Cal is black :-(
Sidestrips: I can't see the point of these. They are not going to help in any but the most limited cases. The only way to protect your doors is to outfit every car that parks next to you with a bumper on their doors at the widest point. Nothing you put on your car will help. The only way it could would be all cars to have the same dimensions etc. They cannot even do that with bumpers let alone doors.
You could consider those big rubber bumpers (floats) that people use to protect their boats from hitting the docks :-). Another option is to get a car cover that has built in pads on the sides. It will protect from dings, the sun, keep onlookers out, etc. May be a pain to install but if you are going to be gone for a while, worth it. Otherwise park in the boonies.
I chuckled when I read this. Could it be because the MDX is not a truck and based on the Honda Odyssey minivan platform? ;-)
Drew/aling
Townhall Community Leader/Vans Conference