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Ford Pinto

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  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Go drive a Pinto before you defend it, if I may ask the favor! You may be leading the charge for the bulldozer once you do.
  • speedshiftspeedshift Member Posts: 1,598
    Yes, like the War Memorial, only it would be called the Blah Memorial. Pintos would be half buried at a 45 degree angle, like that guy in Texas or South Dakota did with Cadillacs.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,019
    ...I've never driven a Pinto! The smallest Ford car from that era I've actually driven was a Granada, although I've sat in a Maverick upon which the Granada was based. Considering that the Granada/Maverick felt, at best "cozy", I'd probably have to be a contortionist to get into a Pinto. Part of my problem is that I'm 6'3", and the smallest car I've ever owned was a 1980 Chevy Malibu (we had a 1988 LeBaron coupe, but that was the ex-wife's...it doesn't count ;-)

    You've got me curious now...call me masochistic, but I kind of want to drive one now, just for the experience.
  • CooperCooper Member Posts: 55
    I'm 6'0", and I don't recall the Pinto being a tight fit at all. And, it even had room in the back seat. That is until the police car pulls alongside and directs it's spotlight to see what's going on. Oh, the 70s ...

    I like the mention of the Maverick, too. A friend had one. 70's brown in color. Seems like every time we worked on the car, we would decide to leave off one of the emissions add-ons from that era. I seem to recall that the floor of his parents garage was lined with parts we'd removed from the engine, things like air pumps and the like.

    When I was in grad school in chemistry, I remember him coming into my lab one day and asking for a rubber stopper and hose clamp. He'd taken off another engine part who's intended function he was unsure of (maybe we shouldn't be working on cars?), and he now had an open hose he needed to stopper.

    He then "graduated" to a tan and brown Granada, I believe.
  • kranjec1kranjec1 Member Posts: 20
    My first car, had neat chrome(small)bumpers on it,
    gold hatchback with factory alloys, 4 speed ,
    am-fm mono radio (not stereo) factory sunroof!
    Goodrich T/A 60's, and 2 litre engine, not the lame 2.3. And you know what, I wish I still had it as it was truly a fun car to zip around in. Out performed the German made Capri, Celicas, MG's, Fiats and many others from early 70's. Not fair to ridicule the car and compare it to today's technology.
  • speedshiftspeedshift Member Posts: 1,598
    Heck, we ridicule all kinds of cars here. I'm proud to report that I also drove one of the first Pintos, with 2000 and AT. Decently quick, made nice noises and, as I recall, the rear end was willing to break loose. Never drove a Maverick but suspect it was distressingly similar to my Falcon. Did drive a Granada. Named after our great Reagan-era military victory ;) it was a very smooth cruiser. Also owned a Hornet, so I guess I did drive a Maverick.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    "the rear end was willing to break loose...."

    How did you MEAN that exactly? :)

    A Pinto outperform an MGB or a Fiat? I'd have to see it to believe it!
  • modvptnlmodvptnl Member Posts: 1,352
    The last few years of Pintos and Bobcats had the 2.6(2.8?) V6 in them. They actually got out of their own way!!!

    Believe it or not the 2.3 has an incredible aftermarket behind it with Esslinger building near 300HP Pinto motors. My very first car was a '71 Toyota Corrola and I do not remember it being any better(or worse) then the Pintos running around in late 70's. I actually liked my girl friends Pinto better. It had A/C!!!
  • speedshiftspeedshift Member Posts: 1,598
    Hey, any basic transportation module that's willing to go through a corner tail first is okay with me. With cars like Pintos you take the thrills any way they come.
  • speedshiftspeedshift Member Posts: 1,598
    Oversteer actually kept me OUT of an accident once. Back in high school I was driving/racing my '65 Corvair up a slow winding two-lane road in the Santa Cruz Mountains. I pulled out to pass a car, and since I had the turbo it took forever (Corvair inside joke). I had just pulled ahead of the car, but was still in the wrong lane and almost into a tight right-hand corner, when I saw a '64 Chevelle--I remember the grille very distinctly--coming down the hill around the corner. I flicked the steering wheel hard to break the rear end loose, not difficult even in a '65, so that I was heading toward the corner instead of the Chevelle, and broadside to the car I was passing, and gunned it between the two cars. I don't know how close I came to cutting off the car I was passing, but the driver probably had his first heart attack, courtesy of a 16-year-old driver. And my wife wonders why I have such compassion for teenagers. They may not know much, but they have great reflexes.
  • CooperCooper Member Posts: 55
    My friend that had the Pinto then graduated to a two-tone Fairmont, not a Granada, as I stated.

    My girlfriend at the time (now my wife) met him in August 1988 to tailgate in 100-degree weather before a Giants-Jets preseason game. He came driving into the parking lot with smoke pouring out from under the front end ... fluid was leaking onto the exhaust manifold. My wife said, "he drove down here in that?" Oh, those 70s cars were great!
  • CooperCooper Member Posts: 55
    I had the Pinto. My friend had the Maverick, then graduated to the Fairmont. Must just be my brain trying to erase any memory of the Pinto again.
  • speedshiftspeedshift Member Posts: 1,598
    This is what repeated Ford ownership can do ;).
  • dweezildweezil Member Posts: 271
    about the Pinto that you cannot deny:it's servicibility. There was even a repair manual and tool kit offered that allowed the owner to do his/her own tune-ups,oil cahnges dash bulb replacements,etc. This was similar in concept to the Maverick's simplicity and yes I WOULD love to find a new car today that was built around servicibilty. the closest thing available like that now is the Chevy Cavalier-at least you can see the engine and the ground underneath and all the other parts are out there in the open. Saturn is similar.Old ads for the Pinto compared it to the "new"Model A. I don't know if it is possible to offer a car with such simplicity;but it doesn't look to me that the manufacturers are even trying.
    Had the experience of simply moving a 72 Pinto from a metered parking space around the corner to a residential one for a friend I worked with and HATED it. Power everything,no steering feel,too low to the ground.Can we say"GIRL'S CAR"?-which it was!
    My Uncle Bill had a Pinto Squire Wagon which was a lot better and probably more practical.I liked it, wouldn't mind finding one for trips to Home Depot and for tinkering with.
    They're honest vehicles as well: certainly a perfect example of the "lowered expectations" of the 70's. They truly are what they are-the cars everyone bought but nobody loved [quote from Consumer Digest Used Car Annual]
    Also;don't forget the other competition available for the Pinto at that time: Fiat and Renault[and the early VW Rabbits]-I would think the Pinto was at least a cut above those two motoring marvels;the sweethearts of the automotive press,as regards to reliability.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Well, maybe Pinto was above them in reliability in the sense of one group being just BAD and the other WORSE, but at least the Renaults and VWs and Fiats were FUN to drive...the Pinto was depressing, gutless and humorless...that's why you hated it. I'd rather have a fun car that was unreliable than some dull, lifeless thing to push around all day.


    Mr. Shiftright
    Host

  • dweezildweezil Member Posts: 271
    You always make me laugh, sir. And you are correct. Just wonder what all those Motor Trend Car of the Year owners thought after buying their Vegas,Volares,Omnirizons etc....I don't think they have EVER apologized for those...Oh I forgot the X car from GM-great concept...REAL bad execution. Must be true what Autoweek uncovered:He who has the most ad dollars and offers up the most perks to the publisher WINS.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Well, you know, there is a market for buyers who really hate cars but need to drive. Maybe that's it!
  • speedshiftspeedshift Member Posts: 1,598
    now that Rambler's gone.
  • bigm1bigm1 Member Posts: 10
    I purchased the 1st year Pinto when they came out. I disagree with them being gutless and lack of fun.

    There were 2 engines originally offered. The 2000 was quite an improvement over the standard engine (1600 or 1800?). Also had to order disk brakes as an option. At about 40K miles, I put new shocks and Michelins on it. Purchase price was under $2100.

    This was pre-smog and the car was fun. My friends small cars couldn't keep up - including Vegas, MGB/MGB-GT, Toyota Corolla, WV Beetles. Had a relative with a Fiat X19 and he never could get it running right (bought it new).

    The car was serviceable, but didn't need much in the way of repairs. Which was quite an improvement over my prior car - BMW 1800.

    Over 6 friends all had Pintos and they all talk about them affectionately. They were cheap, fun, and reliable.
  • contour2contour2 Member Posts: 8
    I owned a white Pinto Squire wagon, my Grandmother
    gave it to me as a gift, it was brand new. It never gave me any trouble, not unlike the Fiat my Grandmother bought for me two years later. In thinking about it I feel my Grandmother was trying to tell me something.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    There's actually a racing class for Pintos somewhere...saw a photo of it, and I hardly cringed at all.

    Maybe you are confusing fun with being scared to death? Just asking....:)
  • tincup47tincup47 Member Posts: 1,508
    I raced a Pinto from 1985-1990 in SCCA. The class I ran in was ITB (Improved Touring B). Unfortunately I didn't accomplish anything but help fill the field, but I did have a great time. The car was classed against BMW 2002's so the car wasn't competitive (neither was I). In the Washington D.C. region there was (maybe still is ) a class called GT Pinto. These cars are very quick and great fun to watch.
    My car was very reliable and cheap to run, it never failed to finish a race due to mechanical failure. Driver error is another matter.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Sounds like fun...I wouldn't mind racing something weird like that. Congrats for the effort and the interesting post!

    I never wished to suggest they were particularly unreliable, just rather medicore and uninspiring as a car, put against the whole spectrum of American automobiles. Not exactly a star, was my point. And certainly not worth saving, as nobody has bothered up to now that I can see.
  • tincup47tincup47 Member Posts: 1,508
    They were just basic transportation. They were designed to meet the threat of 60's imports, primarily the VW's. Certainly not memorable or inspiring.
  • zzoom1zzoom1 Member Posts: 31
    I too had a 73 pinto, 2 litre, 4 speed, t/a radials, hatch back and factory sunroof, back in the day the competition were German capris, vela t's, celicas, 510's and so on. the pinto did not embarrass itself and handled as well as the above also. I still have good memories of that car.
  • gitarzangitarzan Member Posts: 66
    I bought a 1980 Pinto in 1981 with 5k miles on it. I drove it to 105K miles until 1992. It was one of the best cars I ever had. When I dream about driving, I am almost alway driving that little burgundy 2.3L Runabout with the deluxe interior. Prior to 1979 I thought the Pinto was pretty homely, but in 79 they beefed up it's looks and it was pretty sharp.

    One day it backfired and it ran raggedly after that. I finally sold it to some guy down the street for $150 and he drove it back the next day, with it the engine purring like a kitten. It seems that the pushrods had popped out of the rocker arms and he just pushed them back. I almost cried.

    My only solace was that I knew the radiator had more stopleak in it than antifreeze! There were no radiators in the Junkyards because certain BMWs used the same size and the Pinto Radiator was a whale of a lot cheaper than the Beemer's aluminum radiator. The yuppies snatched them up for their UDMs.

    I replaced the Pinto with a 1979 Lincoln Continental Coupe'. What difference. But they both felt like a Ford, maybe because the had almost the exect same steering wheel.
  • arvizunarvizun Member Posts: 3
    In regard to Ford Pintos, someone had mention back in Aug of 2000, how Pintos had exploded as they were getting rear-ended. However, did Ford ever take care of that problem? Also I read somewhere that the Canadian Ford Pinto never exploded when they were hit from behind when tested in Phoenix Arizona in 1977 by NHTSA. And that was because of a one-dollar, one pound plastic baffle that Lee Iococa didn't want to add because it went over his one pound, one dollar budget. Would any one care to comment to aid me on a dissertation that I'm trying to compile for school. I feel that there are a lot of pros in this chat room and your expierence with Ford Pintos would attribute to my paper on Ford Pintos.
    Thanks
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I believe there is a famous court case regarding the Pinto which I wish I could direct you to, but I can't remember the particulars. Some horrible story of a young woman being burned to death in one, and the family suing Ford big time, and, as I recall, getting a settlement.

    As I remember the story, there were some bolts in the differential housing that could penetrate the gas tank in a rear end collision. That in itself might not cause a gas tank to blow up, but of course sparks or the car's ignition on ANY car with leaking gas could cause a fire.

    I myself don't know why Pinto was singled out as "dangerous". I think most cars made in those days, or before, were pretty dangerous by modern standards. Just look at all the things that can impale you on a '57 Chevy or Ford or whatever...and the terrible brakes, no seat belts, etc...I'm surprised so many of our parents survived!
  • arvizunarvizun Member Posts: 3
    Thanks, Would you happen to know of anyone who may have had a Ford Pinto made in Canada? And if they do - Do they still have it? Was there some sort of id stating that it was manufactured in Canada, and if the gas tank does have a rubber blubber built inside to protect the driver in the event of a rear end crash? And if that person bought that car here in the U.S.? Or could you please direct me via mail to that individual for an interview? Your help will be appreciated.
    Thanks again.
  • tincup47tincup47 Member Posts: 1,508
    The 71-76 Pintos were involved in a recall that installed the plastic shield and a longer fuel filler hose. Pinto production from 77-80 had the shield and longer hose as standard. The recall affected 1,400,000 vehicles. If I remember correctly the accidents that caused the deaths were all vehicles that had been rear-ended at higher speeds. The vehicles did meet Federal Motor Vehicle standards that were in place at the time. Pintos sold in Canada had the same tanks that US cars did.
    The story about Lee Iacocca sounds like an Urban Legend to me, if anyone had anything to do with a decision like that it would have come from the Financial end of the business.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,019
    Did the '71-'76 Pintos have those "drop-in" gas tanks? I think that's the correct term...where the gas tank is actually bolted through the trunk floorpan, and then there's a flat piece that fits over top, forming both the top of the gas tank and the trunk floor.

    I've heard alot of fuss because the original Mustangs, as well as most Fords from the mid-late 60's had this design, which would cause the fuel tank to easily rupture in a rear-end collision.

    Also, don't ask me where I heard this, but I remember reading somewhere that a total of 50 people or so died as a result of Pinto fires.

    Ford did have another scandal in the 60's and 70's, one that's not as widely publicized. I don't know the specifics, but it had to do with the automatic transmission being able to shift out of "park" on its own. Not a good thing, considering that many driveways are on a slope! I don't know how many people were killed as a result of this one, but read somewhere that this one potentially involved something like 10 million cars!

    -Andre
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,019
    Hey gang,


    Here's a link that gives a lot of interesting information about the Pinto's gas tank problem...


    http://www.uoguelph.ca/~sharoon/a1/a1disate.htm


    There's also a cool video there that shows a gov't crash test, where they ran what looks like a 1971-vintage Impala or Bel Air into a Pinto, at what looks like a fairly low speed. The Chevy doesn't even flinch, and the Pinto doesn't get TOO damaged, but does erupt into a fireball, which, ironically, gets the Chevy worse than the Pinto! What a waste of a nice Chevy ;-)


    -Andre

  • tincup47tincup47 Member Posts: 1,508
    The Mustang drop in tanks were a one piece welded together unit, not a bolted together piece. I worked in Ford Dealers parts depts. for many years, and never saw a 2 piece gas tank. The top of the tank did double as the floor of the trunk though.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,019
    Tincup47...

    Thanks for the clarification on the drop-in gas tanks. I wasn't exactly sure how they were designed; all I knew is that, in the event of an accident, supposedly it was very easy for them to rupture and spill fuel into the car.

    Didn't most Ford cars in the mid-late 60's use them, though? It's been awhile since I've actually seen an old Ford of that vintage in the junkyard, but I seem to remember some old Fairlanes or Torinos, where you could see the outline of the fuel tank in the trunk floor.

    -Andre
  • tincup47tincup47 Member Posts: 1,508
    They were quite common in 60's and 70's Fords. One of the factors in Iacocca's and other Ford Execs thinking about safety not selling in cars was the beating they took in 56 when they made a host of safety improvements, including seat belts. The public stayed away in droves. Safety didn't become an issue to the general public until Ralph Nader's "Unsafe at Any Speed" came out, and even then it wasn't a huge issue. Major Government involvement started in the late 70's during Joan Claybrook's reign.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    The auto companies basically hung themselves. EVeryone blames poor Nader but all he was saying was "okay, DO SOMETHING about it". The car companies did NOTHING, ZERO, ZILCH, so the government stepped in as soon as Nader made it a political issue. Safety meant votes and safety meant public approval.....it took time, but few people today would demand that the government rescind seat belts and air bag and collision test standards.

    Had automakers responded to the crisis properly (I know, hindsight is easy) instead of covering it all up ineptly, they might have had fewer laws pressed on them and longer to implement them.
  • tincup47tincup47 Member Posts: 1,508
    I was just pointing out that the public didn't feel safety was a reason to buy before he started the safety movement. I agree that the manufacturer's have made some huge blunders handling the issues.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    No, I wasn't imply you were blaming him...I was talking about what you often hear on these boards, but obviously you have a better sense of history.
  • arvizunarvizun Member Posts: 3
    That's a lot of info you guys came up with. And thanks!! Andre thanks for the web site. That was good info., and stuff I could use.
    Thanks to tincup47 for the history, I going to use some of it on my paper.
    Mr_shiftright hats off to you for well informed chat room.
    Till next time..
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Don't thank me...thank THEM..they're a good bunch in here!
  • modvptnlmodvptnl Member Posts: 1,352
    You guys bust me up.

    I mention there is a racing class for Pintos back in June(post#5) and ol shifty, 2 months later, says they don't race Pintos(post#28) Then 6 months later finds out there is a racing class(post #72) What a revelation!!!

    In post #18(in July) I point out the 1600 in the Pinto and Fiesta is the Kent. A month later the scoop is the 1600 is the Kent motor!!(post #37) Wow, wish I had remembered that!! Oh yeah, I did. LOL!!!!

    My favorite is how all the knowledge on here didn't catch the '80 Pinto displacing a pushrod on an OHC motor!!!

    OK, enough whining!!! Back to facts. The Pinto and Mustang II front end is a very desirable unit for building hotrods and in aftermarket trim is actually copied nearly exact!! It's a full ind. upper and lower A arm set up with rack & pinion steering. As I said before (I'm sure no one was reading) the Pinto motors can make nearly 300 HP N/A and are still used in sand buggies and are just now being phased out of the Rangers in their 2.5L trim.

    Yes the 510's were a higher end car but the Pinto did just fine against the lowly Corrola and 210(how can we forget the Datsun Honey Bee???) which it was aimed at.
  • tincup47tincup47 Member Posts: 1,508
    I did catch the error about the pushrod, but just didn't feel the need to correct it. I realised he was talking about throwing the rocking arm that activates the valve. I threw a couple of those myself at the track when I missed a shift, makes a hell of a racket.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Look, you can RACE anything. I saw that article on Pinto racing, and, quite frankly, it may be taken seriously by the racers, but the magazine presented it as a joke. I myself have no problem at all with budget racing, and in fact encourage it, but this doesn't take anything away from the argument that is was a miserable and mediocre little car that didn't "push the imports back into the sea" as it promised.

    When assailed on the subject of whether some old car is a "worthy collectible" or not, I always fall back on the Shiftright Defense (a clever one it is, too), which stipulates....."look, let's see what the public has decided".

    Well, guess what. The public as allowed the Pinto to be worthless today. Now maybe the public is ignorant and mean, but it says that if you junked every last Pinto in the world, maybe 3 to 5 people in the US would really care. Maybe life isn't fair, but apparently the Pinto is forever doomed to be forgotten....RIP is all I can say.
  • tincup47tincup47 Member Posts: 1,508
    That the Pinto will never be a collector's item and overall it was a mediocre car ( I think miserable is a bit much). But looking at a larger picture I doubt if any economy car of the 70's is going to be a classic or collectible. That time period was full of mediocre cars. Even the Japanese imports really only had quality going for them, I personally find very little to impress me from cars of that era.
  • modvptnlmodvptnl Member Posts: 1,352
    I guess when you put it that way, shifty, how can anyone argue!!!!

    Tincup, I agree with your statement.

    When going through these topics I kind of lose sight of the subject matter. The Pinto will NEVER be a classic but they sold enough of them and production was long enough to qualify it somewhere above miserable..LOL!!!
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,019
    (And Mustang II), what would Charlie's Angels have to drive?

    Actually, I've always wondered this, and don't remember if we brought it up in this forum before, but was the Mustang II based on the Pinto platform? I just figured that, since the originals were based on Falcons, and to this day they're still based on Fairmonts, that I can't imagine the Mustang II having a totally unique platform.

    -Andre

    PS: FWIW, I still think the wagons are kinda cool, especially the sport models with the little porthole!
  • tincup47tincup47 Member Posts: 1,508
    was a Pinto with a fancy body. Had a lot of parts commonality in suspension, engine (except the V8 version), transmissions.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Oh, I forgot about Charley's Angels....maybe I've been too hasty here....

    You know, the Pinto was built when American carmakers didn't have a lot of experience in small cars. Think of it as your first science project, or what happened when you mixed all the chemicals in your Chemistry set.
  • gitarzangitarzan Member Posts: 66
    Pushrods. What was I thinking? I wasn't. That was it. A total Brain Fart.

    That car was also a California car sold new in Ohio. I was told later that when that's what they had in the Ford lots that's what they sent. They just could not ship them it the other way. That's why the original owner unloaded it in less than a year. I think it only had about 5 or 6k miles on it.

    Due to this California factor, and the automatic tranny (or tyranny) the MPG totally sucked. I did about the same MPG on 400cid Lincoln I later had (if I light footed it) and far better on a 267cid Caprice without trying. I remember calculating it out at about 17-18 MPG. Other than that I loved the car. I don't know why. I just liked it. A Burgundy 1980.
  • dwgrizzledwgrizzle Member Posts: 6
    My first car was a brand new 71 Pinto.
    After working and saving for 4 years I
    got out of high school in May of 71 and
    had the enormous amount of $2,000 for a car.
    Knowing now what I wish I new then, I
    would have purchased a collectable, but
    that was then. I got the car on a Friday
    afternoon and drove it home just long enough
    to call a few friends to let them know I was
    coming over in my new car. As I left the
    house my mother told me to call the State
    Farm Ins. agent before I left. In too much
    of a hurry to do this I ran out thinking it
    could be done in the morning. Thank goodness
    my mom called for me. Stopped at a light with
    only 37 miles on the odometer, I looked up at
    the rear view mirror to see someone coming at
    me at about 35 miles an hour and not stopping.
    I will never forget the crunching metal and
    breaking glass as he hit me and knocked me into
    the car in front of me. The car was within $100
    of being totaled so,,,, yes it was repaired.
    Thank the good Lord I was not injured. I sold
    the car two years later with 37,000 miles on it
    without any problems other than the accident. A
    few years later the news came out about the gas
    tanks exploding in collisions. I feel lucky to
    be here today with my life and no disfiguring burns.

    The car was a lot of fun to drive and would burn rubber
    in first and chirp the tires in second and third.

    Would I buy another one? NOT ON YOUR LIFE!!!
This discussion has been closed.