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Ford Pinto
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You've got me curious now...call me masochistic, but I kind of want to drive one now, just for the experience.
I like the mention of the Maverick, too. A friend had one. 70's brown in color. Seems like every time we worked on the car, we would decide to leave off one of the emissions add-ons from that era. I seem to recall that the floor of his parents garage was lined with parts we'd removed from the engine, things like air pumps and the like.
When I was in grad school in chemistry, I remember him coming into my lab one day and asking for a rubber stopper and hose clamp. He'd taken off another engine part who's intended function he was unsure of (maybe we shouldn't be working on cars?), and he now had an open hose he needed to stopper.
He then "graduated" to a tan and brown Granada, I believe.
gold hatchback with factory alloys, 4 speed ,
am-fm mono radio (not stereo) factory sunroof!
Goodrich T/A 60's, and 2 litre engine, not the lame 2.3. And you know what, I wish I still had it as it was truly a fun car to zip around in. Out performed the German made Capri, Celicas, MG's, Fiats and many others from early 70's. Not fair to ridicule the car and compare it to today's technology.
How did you MEAN that exactly?
A Pinto outperform an MGB or a Fiat? I'd have to see it to believe it!
Believe it or not the 2.3 has an incredible aftermarket behind it with Esslinger building near 300HP Pinto motors. My very first car was a '71 Toyota Corrola and I do not remember it being any better(or worse) then the Pintos running around in late 70's. I actually liked my girl friends Pinto better. It had A/C!!!
My girlfriend at the time (now my wife) met him in August 1988 to tailgate in 100-degree weather before a Giants-Jets preseason game. He came driving into the parking lot with smoke pouring out from under the front end ... fluid was leaking onto the exhaust manifold. My wife said, "he drove down here in that?" Oh, those 70s cars were great!
Had the experience of simply moving a 72 Pinto from a metered parking space around the corner to a residential one for a friend I worked with and HATED it. Power everything,no steering feel,too low to the ground.Can we say"GIRL'S CAR"?-which it was!
My Uncle Bill had a Pinto Squire Wagon which was a lot better and probably more practical.I liked it, wouldn't mind finding one for trips to Home Depot and for tinkering with.
They're honest vehicles as well: certainly a perfect example of the "lowered expectations" of the 70's. They truly are what they are-the cars everyone bought but nobody loved [quote from Consumer Digest Used Car Annual]
Also;don't forget the other competition available for the Pinto at that time: Fiat and Renault[and the early VW Rabbits]-I would think the Pinto was at least a cut above those two motoring marvels;the sweethearts of the automotive press,as regards to reliability.
Mr. Shiftright
Host
There were 2 engines originally offered. The 2000 was quite an improvement over the standard engine (1600 or 1800?). Also had to order disk brakes as an option. At about 40K miles, I put new shocks and Michelins on it. Purchase price was under $2100.
This was pre-smog and the car was fun. My friends small cars couldn't keep up - including Vegas, MGB/MGB-GT, Toyota Corolla, WV Beetles. Had a relative with a Fiat X19 and he never could get it running right (bought it new).
The car was serviceable, but didn't need much in the way of repairs. Which was quite an improvement over my prior car - BMW 1800.
Over 6 friends all had Pintos and they all talk about them affectionately. They were cheap, fun, and reliable.
gave it to me as a gift, it was brand new. It never gave me any trouble, not unlike the Fiat my Grandmother bought for me two years later. In thinking about it I feel my Grandmother was trying to tell me something.
Maybe you are confusing fun with being scared to death? Just asking....:)
My car was very reliable and cheap to run, it never failed to finish a race due to mechanical failure. Driver error is another matter.
I never wished to suggest they were particularly unreliable, just rather medicore and uninspiring as a car, put against the whole spectrum of American automobiles. Not exactly a star, was my point. And certainly not worth saving, as nobody has bothered up to now that I can see.
One day it backfired and it ran raggedly after that. I finally sold it to some guy down the street for $150 and he drove it back the next day, with it the engine purring like a kitten. It seems that the pushrods had popped out of the rocker arms and he just pushed them back. I almost cried.
My only solace was that I knew the radiator had more stopleak in it than antifreeze! There were no radiators in the Junkyards because certain BMWs used the same size and the Pinto Radiator was a whale of a lot cheaper than the Beemer's aluminum radiator. The yuppies snatched them up for their UDMs.
I replaced the Pinto with a 1979 Lincoln Continental Coupe'. What difference. But they both felt like a Ford, maybe because the had almost the exect same steering wheel.
Thanks
As I remember the story, there were some bolts in the differential housing that could penetrate the gas tank in a rear end collision. That in itself might not cause a gas tank to blow up, but of course sparks or the car's ignition on ANY car with leaking gas could cause a fire.
I myself don't know why Pinto was singled out as "dangerous". I think most cars made in those days, or before, were pretty dangerous by modern standards. Just look at all the things that can impale you on a '57 Chevy or Ford or whatever...and the terrible brakes, no seat belts, etc...I'm surprised so many of our parents survived!
Thanks again.
The story about Lee Iacocca sounds like an Urban Legend to me, if anyone had anything to do with a decision like that it would have come from the Financial end of the business.
I've heard alot of fuss because the original Mustangs, as well as most Fords from the mid-late 60's had this design, which would cause the fuel tank to easily rupture in a rear-end collision.
Also, don't ask me where I heard this, but I remember reading somewhere that a total of 50 people or so died as a result of Pinto fires.
Ford did have another scandal in the 60's and 70's, one that's not as widely publicized. I don't know the specifics, but it had to do with the automatic transmission being able to shift out of "park" on its own. Not a good thing, considering that many driveways are on a slope! I don't know how many people were killed as a result of this one, but read somewhere that this one potentially involved something like 10 million cars!
-Andre
Here's a link that gives a lot of interesting information about the Pinto's gas tank problem...
http://www.uoguelph.ca/~sharoon/a1/a1disate.htm
There's also a cool video there that shows a gov't crash test, where they ran what looks like a 1971-vintage Impala or Bel Air into a Pinto, at what looks like a fairly low speed. The Chevy doesn't even flinch, and the Pinto doesn't get TOO damaged, but does erupt into a fireball, which, ironically, gets the Chevy worse than the Pinto! What a waste of a nice Chevy ;-)
-Andre
Thanks for the clarification on the drop-in gas tanks. I wasn't exactly sure how they were designed; all I knew is that, in the event of an accident, supposedly it was very easy for them to rupture and spill fuel into the car.
Didn't most Ford cars in the mid-late 60's use them, though? It's been awhile since I've actually seen an old Ford of that vintage in the junkyard, but I seem to remember some old Fairlanes or Torinos, where you could see the outline of the fuel tank in the trunk floor.
-Andre
Had automakers responded to the crisis properly (I know, hindsight is easy) instead of covering it all up ineptly, they might have had fewer laws pressed on them and longer to implement them.
Thanks to tincup47 for the history, I going to use some of it on my paper.
Mr_shiftright hats off to you for well informed chat room.
Till next time..
I mention there is a racing class for Pintos back in June(post#5) and ol shifty, 2 months later, says they don't race Pintos(post#28) Then 6 months later finds out there is a racing class(post #72) What a revelation!!!
In post #18(in July) I point out the 1600 in the Pinto and Fiesta is the Kent. A month later the scoop is the 1600 is the Kent motor!!(post #37) Wow, wish I had remembered that!! Oh yeah, I did. LOL!!!!
My favorite is how all the knowledge on here didn't catch the '80 Pinto displacing a pushrod on an OHC motor!!!
OK, enough whining!!! Back to facts. The Pinto and Mustang II front end is a very desirable unit for building hotrods and in aftermarket trim is actually copied nearly exact!! It's a full ind. upper and lower A arm set up with rack & pinion steering. As I said before (I'm sure no one was reading) the Pinto motors can make nearly 300 HP N/A and are still used in sand buggies and are just now being phased out of the Rangers in their 2.5L trim.
Yes the 510's were a higher end car but the Pinto did just fine against the lowly Corrola and 210(how can we forget the Datsun Honey Bee???) which it was aimed at.
When assailed on the subject of whether some old car is a "worthy collectible" or not, I always fall back on the Shiftright Defense (a clever one it is, too), which stipulates....."look, let's see what the public has decided".
Well, guess what. The public as allowed the Pinto to be worthless today. Now maybe the public is ignorant and mean, but it says that if you junked every last Pinto in the world, maybe 3 to 5 people in the US would really care. Maybe life isn't fair, but apparently the Pinto is forever doomed to be forgotten....RIP is all I can say.
Tincup, I agree with your statement.
When going through these topics I kind of lose sight of the subject matter. The Pinto will NEVER be a classic but they sold enough of them and production was long enough to qualify it somewhere above miserable..LOL!!!
Actually, I've always wondered this, and don't remember if we brought it up in this forum before, but was the Mustang II based on the Pinto platform? I just figured that, since the originals were based on Falcons, and to this day they're still based on Fairmonts, that I can't imagine the Mustang II having a totally unique platform.
-Andre
PS: FWIW, I still think the wagons are kinda cool, especially the sport models with the little porthole!
You know, the Pinto was built when American carmakers didn't have a lot of experience in small cars. Think of it as your first science project, or what happened when you mixed all the chemicals in your Chemistry set.
That car was also a California car sold new in Ohio. I was told later that when that's what they had in the Ford lots that's what they sent. They just could not ship them it the other way. That's why the original owner unloaded it in less than a year. I think it only had about 5 or 6k miles on it.
Due to this California factor, and the automatic tranny (or tyranny) the MPG totally sucked. I did about the same MPG on 400cid Lincoln I later had (if I light footed it) and far better on a 267cid Caprice without trying. I remember calculating it out at about 17-18 MPG. Other than that I loved the car. I don't know why. I just liked it. A Burgundy 1980.
After working and saving for 4 years I
got out of high school in May of 71 and
had the enormous amount of $2,000 for a car.
Knowing now what I wish I new then, I
would have purchased a collectable, but
that was then. I got the car on a Friday
afternoon and drove it home just long enough
to call a few friends to let them know I was
coming over in my new car. As I left the
house my mother told me to call the State
Farm Ins. agent before I left. In too much
of a hurry to do this I ran out thinking it
could be done in the morning. Thank goodness
my mom called for me. Stopped at a light with
only 37 miles on the odometer, I looked up at
the rear view mirror to see someone coming at
me at about 35 miles an hour and not stopping.
I will never forget the crunching metal and
breaking glass as he hit me and knocked me into
the car in front of me. The car was within $100
of being totaled so,,,, yes it was repaired.
Thank the good Lord I was not injured. I sold
the car two years later with 37,000 miles on it
without any problems other than the accident. A
few years later the news came out about the gas
tanks exploding in collisions. I feel lucky to
be here today with my life and no disfiguring burns.
The car was a lot of fun to drive and would burn rubber
in first and chirp the tires in second and third.
Would I buy another one? NOT ON YOUR LIFE!!!