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Acura MDX (pre-2007)
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If you're driving off-road, the MDX's soft-ish suspension may not up to the task and if it keeps running into the bump stops, you will most definitely feel the very hard jolts. I do not recommend that you do this often. On-road though, the MDX provides a nice amount of isolation from road imperfections (it's not quite as cushy as the RX, but is less firm than the ML).
My 2 cents :-)
Drew
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By the way ...what do you think about the Montero vs. MDX on this issue...and what about reliability of the Mitsubishi over time?
Frankly, the ML320 starts out fairly inexpensive, but it rather stark -- my wife and I cannot configure one with the "features" we want for less than $41K list. This makes the RX300/MDX very attractive at about $35K list.
Then, there have been a lot of reliability problems with the ML320 -- no thanks. This is exactly why I would never buy a Chrysler, and that is exactly what a Mercedes has become, AFAIK.
This all rules out the Mercedes...
(besides, my wife would never allow me to stack a load of drywall in "my Mercedes!" -- so I might as well buy the cheapest Jeep I can find, FWIW. This defeats the whole intent of owning a truck!).
I like the (perceived) roominess of the MDX, I have incredibly good experiences with Honda.
My wife likes the styling of the Lexus RX300,
and indeed it offers both traction control and stability control.
The RX300 (visually) appears to have a lower center of gravity than the MDX, and I was disappointed to learn that the MDX offers neither traction control nor stability control in their 2001 model. I think the latter is especially important, given the size of the vehicle.
Although it seems from discussions that the MDX will handle better than the RX300, I suspect that the MDS will become unstable at high speeds.
[If you want to go FAST, moron, don't buy a truck. Buy a sports car.]
Finally, the MDX is a first-year model, I am probably safer looking at the 2002 model, perhaps it will have a stability control added and/or I'll get a whole year to see if there is any negative press...
As for the X5 -- do you really want to pay $50K+ for a TRUCK!?!
FWIW, you can't stack drywall flat in any of these. Even w/ the MDX, you have to raise the drywall so it gets closer to the wider part of the opening according to the cars.com review.
The X5 is a SAV. It has a different market. If you haven't driven one, it's an interesting experience.
WRT center of gravity, the ML320 has a lower one than the RX300 so visually guessing doesn't work ;-)
Secondly, the ML320's initial quality was very bad (statistically, at least; some owners never had a problem). However, it has improved to somewhere around average. Also, most problems aren't with the powertrain. Whether or not that's enough for your level of comfort is personal preference. It'll probably do about as well as the first-year MDX, which will likely be average to above average based on the first five months of owner feedback.
While Acura should have put stability control in the MDX, one can't decide which SUV is more prone to a rollover based strictly on visual appearance. As Ken said, the RX300 actually has a higher center of gravity than the ML320. The RX has more body roll than the others (improved with the 2001's, but it's still there), which can also be an issue with stability. As you pointed out, the RX is now available with stability control so that should help.
While the Acura lacks VSA (Acura's version of stability control), it has a wider track and, in the Touring edition, better stock tires than the ML or RX. Its AWD system doesn't power all four wheels at once during normal driving, however (trade off is lighter weight and better fuel economy, according to Acura).
Quite a few owners have pushed their MDX at high speeds (note that I'm not condoning this; any SUV must be driven with the proper restraint, even if they have ever safety gadget on the planet) and, overall, there do not seem to be issues of high speed stability. This includes a number of 100mph drives (again, I am not recommending this!!!). You can see some of these at www.acuramdx.org.
Once a rollover actually occurs, Ken has posted some pretty bad pictures of an RX rollover and the damage. Of course, conditions vary from rollover to rollover so one can't definitively say the Lexus is "bad in a rollover." The ML has well-documented rollover integrity. In fact, Lexus tried to copy the MB "Staying Alive" commercial, but conveniently omitted the footage of rollover testing. The Acura's performance in an actual rollover is an unknown factor. Though I suspect it won't beat the ML320's performance.
Finally, another factor in stability and rollovers is payload. Overloading a vehicle should dramatically decrease stability and increase the chances for rollover. The RX has a fairly limited payload, though it is also physically smaller. The ML320 and MDX, partly because they're larger vehicles, have a significantly higher payload capacity. As long as you don't overload any of those vehicles, it's not an issue.
Bottom line is that you'd be very happy with all three vehicles, but it's not an automatic who is more stable than the other.
The SLX was a rebadged Isuzu that Acura sold for some time, and has since discontinued. Consumers Union believed both the Isuzu and Acura variants were prone to rollover. A lawsuit ensued, and a settlement was reached. I certainly wouldn't recommend the SLX, but it is not related at all to the MDX. The MDX was developed by Acura/Honda (not Isuzu), based on the Odyssey platform.
Since casual readers may misinterpret incorrect information, it is important we cite sources correctly, and supply links to the actual information.
Thank you.
As William said, Consumers Union rated the Trooper and SLX as "unsafe". This was big news a few years ago. The MDX is a completely different vehicle, just like the MDX is completely different from the Honda Passport.
Unless we hear back from you with more info, such as a URL, we'll assume you misunderstood the MDX for the former SLX.
Good news. Although the floor salesman (Kevin) at Beaudry was asking $175 for the mud flaps, Tracy Beaudry assured me that you can get them for $70 through her or Robert (their Internet Sales Office).
These are at factory MSRP with no markups and no unwanted accessories or "packages".
As seen in an earlier post, dd950 initially had an unpleasant surprise from the retail salesman when he was told $175 for rear mud flaps. Other than that, he seemed pleased with everything else regarding this purchase.
I have since been told that if anyone buys the MDX from Beaudry's Internet Sales department, all accessories will be priced the same as on Acura.com's website. Hence, $70 for the mud flaps installed, $142 for the cargo cover, $63 for wheel locks, $81 for moonroof visor, etc. That is what I was told by Tracy Beaudry, who manages the Internet Sales department. Hopefully, dd950 will be able to confirm this news.
I've made two different purchases from Tracy in the past few months, and she has never disappointed me. She isn't always readily available to talk on the phone, but she always seems to respond quickly to any email!
If anyone is going to purchase accessories from the dealer, just remember to pay for them separately from the car purchase, or you may end up paying for luxury tax on those items as well, because they will be considered as part of the original car purchase (that is assuming everything breaks $38k).
Some Acura dealers charge way above list for all accessories, across the board. Some dealers require all MDX purchases to include certain accessories, often at inflated prices. Some dealerships, such as the one I recommended, may have retail sales personnel charging way above list, while also having a fleet/internet sales office that charges much lower prices. In this case, Beaudry's Internet Sales department will match all of acura.com's accessory prices at the time of the MDX purchase.
My post was certainly not intended to steer customers away from Tim. I only wanted to clear up some confusion on why dd950 was originally asked to pay such a high price for rear mud flaps. It was also meant to notify any prospective MDX buyer, who is willing to travel in order to take delivery of a new MDX within the next month, that their accessories could be purchased at the same prices quoted on acura.com's website (which is typically much lower than most dealers charge for installed accessories). The "catch" is that the purchase must be made through Beaudry's Internet Sales department, not retail sales. (I'm walking a fine line between information and solicitation, but considering the confusion regarding dd950's mud flaps, I thought this was good news to share within this forum.)
I definitely recommend Hondacuraworld for accessories that are easy to install. However, when required to drive a long distance home from the dealer, you may want a couple accessories installed by the dealer, even though they are easy to install yourself. For example, the mud flaps and the moonroof visor are not difficult to install. However, I wanted them installed for our 2.5 hour drive home from the dealer, and I didn't want to spend time doing the installation in a McDonald's parking lot! Also keep in mind that the instructions provided by Acura on some of these accessories are not very clear or thorough. Something as simple as a cargo net has caused quite a bit of confusion among some MDX owners, and even some Acura sales personnel(!), thanks to Acura's "wonderful" instructions.
Thanks to the participant's correction above that the new Montero is a unibody design, I will have to think twice about my recommendation for the Montero for towing. It does have a 5000lbs towing capacity, giving it a much larger margin than the MDX for towing. However, I think that a body-on-frame may still be better in the long run (when towing) for durability reasons. Again, this is just my humble opinion.
My main issue with the Montero is that its 3.5L V6 engine provides fairly leisurely (but adequate) acceleration. Add 2400lbs and that may be a different story.
You may also want to watch for my response in the M-class topic.
Drew
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All of the Denver metro area dealers I have talked to are a $1000 non-refundable deposit and are saying June-July delivery on average. I like the fact that Beaudry is not forcing DIOs and not charging over MSRP. The wait time seems less too.
I did also contact Bell Acura in Phoenix (Debra Riffel) and she was also helpful. they couldn't get what I wanted until June or July, but they also had no requirements for DIO or charging over MSRP.
I think either of these dealers is a good bet to contact if you are fed up with local dealers wanting over MSRP or forcing marked up DIOs
- Dustin
I'm glad to help!! I'm sorry to hear your local dealers aren't more cooperative (non-refundable $1000 deposits? Wow!), but I'm happy to give Tracy the referrals. I like to see dealers who really want our business "steal" it away from the other dealers who don't play by the same rules (charging over MSRP, forcing accessories, non-refundable deposits, etc.)
As you pointed out, Deborah is also a great person to work with. I had talked to Deborah on a couple occasions, and I was pleased with her professionalism. Both Tracy and Deborah are great assets to their dealerships.
My understanding is that Tracy will get you better prices on the accessories than what Debra could provide. Tracy told me she will match Acura.com's prices on all accessories, but I've heard that Bell Acura charges higher prices. In fact, I believe someone within this topic wrote that he purchased an MDX from Debra. I believe he flew to Phoenix from the Bay Area. If I rememeber correctly, he wrote that he didn't buy a single accessory from Bell Acura due to their high accessory prices. Other than that, he was quite pleased with his purchase from Debra.
Good luck! Keep me posted on how things go, because I sincerely hope I'm not posting any false info here!
By the way, about 15 months ago I had a BMW shipped from Denver down here to Phoenix. I think the price was about $350. I thought this was a good price. It helped that I used a trucking company, not an automobile shipping "broker". The person who sold me the BMW delivered it to their office in the northwest Denver area for me.
All of the Denver metro area dealers I have talked to are a $1000 non-refundable deposit and are saying June-July delivery on average. I like the fact that Beaudry is not forcing DIOs and not charging over MSRP. The wait time seems less too.
I did also contact Bell Acura in Phoenix (Debra Riffel) and she was also helpful. they couldn't get what I wanted until June or July, but they also had no requirements for DIO or charging over MSRP.
I think either of these dealers is a good bet to contact if you are fed up with local dealers wanting over MSRP or forcing marked up DIOs
- Dustin
Transpower
It is true that I didn't purchase any accessories from Bell. The only one I asked about was the rear mudflaps, and their price was high. I didn't bargain. I had already decided to get my accessories from Tim.
I was very pleased with my experience with Debra and Bell, and I was thrilled to get my GG w/ touring/nav at MSRP in only 30 days!
History: Some people have complained about wind noise in this forum, and it seemed that they were typically test driving a Touring model. On the other hand, I haven't seen many people with the Base model complain about noise. I personally have no problem with wind noise in my base MDX, at least as far as I am concerned. Ann Job, an automotive critic on Carpoint, test drive both a Base and Touring model, and she claimed the Touring model had more wind noise. I should also mention there is a high percentage of people in here who have purchased a Touring Package and have never complained about wind noise.
My neighbor purchased a Touring MDX a couple months ago, and he claimed it was fairly noisy when travelling at 70mph. He said the noise level was fine at 50mph, but it increased significantly at 70mph.
Well, I was hoping to drive his Touring MDX and my Base MDX back-to-back, but my neighbor beat me to the punch. He took his MDX to the Acura dealer to have this issue resolved. He and his service advisor first took his MDX for an extended drive, and then they took a Base MDX (without a roof rack) for an extended drive. My neighbor said he was surprised at how much quieter the Base MDX was when traveling at 70mph. He then took his own MDX out one more time. Both he and his service advisor were then convinced that the additional wind noise in his MDX was due to the roof rack. Having driven them back-to-back, he could more easily conclude that the wind noise he was hearing was from above his head. Just for good measure, the service department checked his MDX for any other noise contributors, but they found nothing.
Unfortunately, my neighbor is now 100% convinced his 70mph wind noise issue is due to his roof rack, and so he isn't too excited about performing another 30-60 minutes of test driving with me! (And I didn't want to be too pushy, or else it might appear that I don't trust his conclusions!) Hence, I can only report this news second-hand, and not first-hand with my own personal observations, as I had hoped. But I still hope to find a time convenient for both of us where I can try out his MDX for myself.
I really hope Acura/Honda is ensuring enough quality control process at the Canadian plant ... from this problem, perhaps not.
You're going to have to go to your dealer and test drive a Touring w/ yours back to back now ;-)
Has anyone tried out the Thule fairing/deflector yet? It's helped ML owners who put crossbars on...
I should also clarify, and possibly rephrase, my neighbor's opinion of the wind noise. He first mentioned this wind noise issue to me because he was concerned he might have a problem with his MDX. It wasn't so much that he hated the additional wind noise. His concern was that the noise was above what he would expect, and so he was afraid this might be caused by some other problem with his MDX. Hence, his primary concern was to solve the mystery of why he had more wind noise than he expected, especially considering he didn't notice much noise at 50mph and below. Once this mystery was resolved, he wasn't necessarily a happy camper, but he was content to put up with a little more wind noise rather than lose the utility of his roof rack.
I think the next mystery would be to see if having the moonroof visor installed will help reduce some of the wind noise caused by the roof rack.
If she buys it, I wonder if I can do any "research" on an NSX? ;-)
They found the noise problem. It's in a service bulletin (I think). The clips in the moonroof bay is misalign or something and was hitting the motor. This problem was was fixed but I couldn't pick up the car on the same day due to work (My MDX was ready by 3pm). So I arranged to pick up my MDX tomorrow. My rental is a 2001 Bonniville. NOT BAD...for a loaner. But I won't buy one (GM cars really suck).
Seriously, I have very, very little wind noise, even at 70+ MPH. Even my wife can't complain about it, and that's a major achievement. Also, I have no thud and no water drip !!! :-) Don't ask me how...
http://www.edmunds.com/chat/brauerchat022701.html
Drew
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Based on that letter, it looks like all MDX's from serial number 1 to 5300 are affected. Since mine is number 298, I guess that means my MDX could have this problem.
I'm a little confused as to what that letter represents. I guess it is a service bulletin of some sort? I guess all Acura dealers should now have this info, but is anything mailed to the affected customers? I'm a little concerned that this potential problem may not be known or advertised among many of the owners who may be affected. Or am I being a little too hasty with that assessment, being that the bulletin is dated 2/20/2001?
Any idea if the Odyssey uses the same dual-threshold airbag system?
I'm sorry -- I better stop the 99 questions, eh? Thanks again for posting that info!
I remember that way-back-when, you had pics of your backend (well, your ML's backend) strewn about your driveway while you installed a Park Pilot backup assist deal.
Is this an MB thing only, or is it available aftermarket for any car/truck? I can't find anything (in English) doing online searches.
Thanks.
WRT the link above, it looks like a safety recall to me.You will probably get a recall notice from Acura soon. From what I understand, it means in a low speed collision, the passenger airbag will select the wrong airbag inflation threshold because the SRS thinks that the passenger seatbelt is not buckled when it actually is, and vice versa. From the VIN, it looks like 5299 MDXs are affect by this recall.
Drew
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I'm not too concerned about this recall so long as it's the only one. I'll say again that if it wasn't for the timing of the baby and the fact that we didn't want to keep sticking him in the back of the Integra, we'd have waited. But the baby had his own ideas ;-)
(Actually, the "mistake" we made was when we bought the 2-door Integra. We had thought we'd only keep it for four years, well before we planned to start a family. Of course, best laid plans can go awry and we held onto it for six years instead until our son forced the issue.)
If you haven't read Edmunds.com's confessions of a car salesman, I highly recommend you do so. I found it very entertaining, and yet enlightening as to what goes in the auto sales business.
Drew
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Picked up the MDX from Cerritos Acura last Sat. the 24th, paid MSRP plus mandatory add-ons of wheel locks and mud guards. Oh well. I first learned of those add-ons thru an earlier post on this board, and heard it for the first time from the dealer when they called and said it was in. Yes, they were overpriced at $139 for the muds and $99 for the locks, but I can deal with it. I'm more struck by their accesory choices, as in "why bother?" Their "gross" (read that in all its meanings) profit for the add-ons wasn't obscene, more of a disappointment in principle. What's the deal, they have extra stock to unload? However, the $$ difference wasn't worth the effort to be on-call (i.e., drop everything, first come, first served) for the nearest other MSRP dealer 60+ miles away thru L.A. traffic. I wanted mud guards anyway, will just get the other stuff from Hondacuraworld. Bottom line, I can recommend to potential buyers that they ought to check out Cerritos Acura and see if they're comfortable purchasing from them.
Otherwise, the purchase went very smoothly. The sales guy kept me in the loop as I got nearer to the top of the wait list, and he and the finance guy were pleasant and responsive to answering the few questions I had. My only cons were that I couldn't get any freebies out of them (not one of my skills, anyway), and the sales guy's statement about how he'd appreciate top marks on the customer satisfaction survey. Just not necessary to broach that.
I ended up waiting about 4 months to take delivery, including some extra time because I changed my mind and went for the Navi after all. Since much of that wait was during the holidays (and recouping period), it didn't seem as long as it really was. In fact, now that I have it, it's almost anti-climatic.
So far, my driving experience has been limited to bringing it home in the rain. One thing I can say is that it is quieter than my 1988, 167,000-mile Accord. No surprise there. The point being that what seems loud or quiet is all relative to what you're used to. I haven't hit 70 mph yet, so I'll post what I think of the wind noise later. The only glitch to date is the Navi doesn't always load up (an error message sometimes pops up about an old database; anybody else get the same message?), so I've got a service appt. for this Friday. I'll post the results on that as well.
Btw, what goes better with the plood, the mahogany or burlwood shift nob?
Drew
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http://www.acuramdx.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=852
William, did you check the number on your harness to see if you need yours replaced as well?
I'd imagine Acura doesn't know which VIN's within the specified range of 5,300 have the specific defective harness assembly, so the bulletin was worded to be conservative.