I wonder if Tim at Hondacuraworld sells any hood defectors?
I'm sure if somebody took the time to research this spellchecker (to learn of all the changes it recommends), a very amusing post could be launched as a result!
Thanks for the reply. 1. My MDS is a base with P235/65TR17 BSW tires 2. Thanks for the advice. I know I should brake hard before the turn and accelerate while making turns. But I can't remember what I did at that time. 3. I haven't checked out the tire pressure yet and I will. Do you mean that the rear tire's pressure should be higher than 32psi that the front tire pressure has? 4. Very good point. I'll check it out if the ramp is sandy.
Anyway I should drive slow next time before any turns. BTW, I got a ticket due to not fully stop at the stop sign. Damn it!
Actually, I wanted to know the Brand/Model of the tires-all MDX's use same size, but I think Goodyears are on the base model. As for pressures, within a reasonable range (24-40 psi, perhaps), it is the RELATIVE pressures between front and rear that can "tune" the car's balance between overteer (loose rear end) and understeer (you need to turn the wheel More than you intended, or the front end will go off the pavement by the end of the turn--ACTUALLY this is considered "safer" since any idiot realizes when he has to turn the wheel MORE to stay on the road!) Cars handle more crisply with higher pressures (and also get better fuel economy since rolling resistance is less), at the expense of ride softness, so manufacturers recommend what they think is a good compromise pressure. If looseness is persistant, and alignment is not the cause, lowering front pressure to 28-30 psi might solve the problem. PS Did you trade in a 3-series for the MDX? PPS You might look at the "Tires,tires,tires" topic on the "Accessories & Aftermarket" board-- lots of examples there of people saying that switching to a better series/brand of tire made a significant diference in the same car's handling-- I firmly believe in researching and upgrading tires, at least when it is time to replace, or if you have special requirements (i.e. snow/ice, offroad, or performance driving)
always49: FWIW, when I test drove a Touring MDX, it did not slide and handled great. Someone on the M-class list said his Base MDX test drive was horrible...tires squealed a lot and didn't feel grippy... I'd suggest a tire upgrade if you want to continue w/ your driving style ;-) The Michelin CT's are good. Dunlop will also be releasing SP5000's for SUVs this year and Audi folks love them.
Noted, thanks! Let's just say that I don't use the spellchecker myself. BTW, you can add your own custom words for the spellchecker by going to "Preferences".
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Well, once owning an RX 300, I was looking to find some flaws with this vehicle. I have a 3.2 TL 2000 model and think the MDX is third sports car, third minivan and third truck. It is an awesome vehicle and handles and drives like a dream. I cannot imagine Honda's reasons for having so few Odyssey and MDX available. Did they have no idea what they had? For the price nothing compares. Dealer is pure MSRP with 4 month wait. I will put down $500 refundable and get the first Granite Green 2002 in October. See no sense in getting a late model 2001 for about the same price. I do not see $2600 value in the touring model. I wish Granite Green had a lighter interior color--I like the Beige interior. I am concerned about mileage. I have seen some consistent posts of mid teens. Is 24 realistic on a steady trip? INKY
Uh, I'm amazed (and impressed) you can move so quickly from vehicle to vehicle. Are you trading in your RX300 for the MDX, or have you already sold your RX?
"Your mileage may vary" is especially true with the MDX. People's mileage numbers are all over the map, and are dramatically affected by the style of driving. Straight highway cruising does well, predictably, but driving around town doesn't. See:
Honda/Acura not making more is a constant lament and has been debated ad nauseum. I simply think it's attributable to 1) Honda/Acura's relatively smaller size and smaller reach, as compared with behemoths like Toyota, and 2) Honda/Acura's notoriously conservative management.
As far as the MDX goes, everyone was saying before release that it was late in the game. A lot of auto critics openly speculated that it was too late, that the MDX was coming into a saturated market where it'd be overwhelmed by the existing competition. Now, obviously, the auto press loves the MDX, and dealers are not having any problems selling their allocation.
Glad to see you're still here! I've been away doing some house hunting. We now have about 10.5K miles on our MDX. Problem is that we still like it quite a bit, and we think it is the perfect family vehicle for our situation. Because of that, I might have to hold onto this MDX for at least two years, which will likely cause me to lose the "cotmc" name!
Jim:
We can get 24mpg on a relatively straight highway traveling at about 70mph. We get between 17 and 18mpg around town. Hopefully that is just as good or better than the RX300 AWD, although it wouldn't surprise me if the RX300 2WD does a little better. After all, the MDX is a bigger and wider car. There must be more wind resistance to it.
I also strongly agree with you with waiting for the 2002 model year, just due to the additional resale value. If Acura dealers don't discount at the end of the year, I would personally not buy a 2001 MDX at MSRP in August or September.
I don't think this sounds like a strong consideration for you, but it might interest you... I know of a local dealer who has 2 MDXs on their lot (at MSRP). I don't know for sure if their waiting list on some models is negligible, or if people are cancelling their refundable deposits? Anyway, one of them was a base emerald green with beige interior, possibly close to what you were wanting.
Thanks for the useful info. The tire is Goodyears/Integrity. I didn't trade in my 328i, it's year 2000 E46 model. I sold my Honda Accord EX94 on the Internet.
Kenyee/Bobput, As the current Goodyears tires are still new, I wouldn't want to upgrade them to Michelin. But definitely I will in couple years.
Yes, they're not really horrible tires but they certainly leave something to be desired. They're the same general model that you find on the RX300. Too bad Acura didn't make the Michelin Cross Terrain SUV's standard across the entire MDX line, not just the Touring models.
Does anyone know how the VTM-4 system works? I have the brochure and their explanation, but, I want to find out what actually happens when it operates. It is of some concern since it is new to larger cars, like the DX. I have asked the service departments in three dealers and I get poor explanations. Apparently the system has only been used on the Civic and for a rather short time. What does the electromagnets do? Are they inside or outside of the housing? What wear surfaces are there and where are they?
I saw one message that says Accura changed the fluid change mileage to 7500 all of the time, not just the first change.
Some owners have noted above average wind noise with the MDX. We have a base model, without the roof rack, but with a moonroof visor, and I have absolutely no complaints with wind noise. I believe the roof rack adds to the wind noise at highway speeds. My neighbor did a comparison test between two different MDXs to draw that same conclusion: The Touring model with the roof rack was noiser for him than the base model without the roof rack.
With over 10K miles on our MDX, we have yet to hear any rattles or creaks. Being a unit-body design, I would expect these types of noises to be minimal in the MDX, compared to most other SUVs.
foxcrost1 -- The VTM-4 System has been debated here many, many times, but the link below is a very good semi-detailed look at the entire MDX. The VTM-4 is discussed with nice cut-away diagrams under 'Tech Specs: Powertrain'. A good read for anyone considering the MDX . . .
Whether or not I buy a VW Colorado next year (probably not), I'm sure that VW will do a good job of tempting me. I'm looking forward to seeing the advertisements VW will provide for the Colorado! I don't mean to be too disloyal to Acura, but let's face it: the MDX TV commercials are rather staid and forgetful. Many people see an MDX commercial and they STILL don't understand that Acura has a new SUV on the market!! Compare the MDX commercials to the VW commercials. I still grin at that Jetta commercial when the guy calls out his wife/girlfriend to watch him roll up the windows with his car key.
Did you grow up watching television like I did? You are so jaded by advertising ;-)
The VW SUV should be a very interesting competitor to the MDX. It probably won't be a better value than the MDX since VW seems determined to go upscale and their current model line can't be described as being very high in value given their street prices.
However, VW could and probably will top Acura in terms of styling, overall pizazz, some of that vaunted German-car feeling, and safety engineering.
Since I"m from the car-of-the-decade cycle (okay, maybe not that bad), I guess I'll be sitting this one out!
ACCORDING TO THE CONSUMER GUIDE MAY 2001, THEY STATE. "MARKED TIRE HUM ON ALL BUT GLASSY PAVEMENT. WIND RUSH VOLUME SURPRISINGLY HIGH AT HIGHWAY SPEEDS. ENGINE SMOOTH, AUDIBLY PLEASANT, BUT NOT LUXURY-CAR QUIET". RATED 3 OUT OF 10.
RIDE QUALITY THEY STATE. "FIRM BUT NOT JOLTING EVEN OVER LARGE BUMPS, THOUGH A LEXUS RX IS MUCH BETTER THAN MDX AT IRONING OUT LUMPY FREEWAYS." RATED 5 OUT OF 10.
ANY CURRENT MDX OWNERS HAVE SOME INFO ON THESE TOPICS, SINCE ITS ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO FIND A DEMO TO TEST DRIVE. CURRENTLY OWN RX300 I WOULD HATE TO GO TO A LOUDER,FIRM RIDING VECHILE. THANKS
About a month ago, my wife and I were deciding which SUV to buy since our '99 Acura TL was getting a little too cramped with our 8 month old's car seat. We narrowed our choice down to the MDX and RX300. We ruled out the X5 due to lack of space and price, and the ML320/430 due to reliability issues and everything being an option.
We test drove both the RX300 (AWD) and MDX (Touring/Nav) back to back (funny that the Lexus and Acura dealerships are across the street from each other in Walpole, MA). We first drove the RX300. The ride is silent, very smooth, refined, good power, etc. The interior quality is top notch.
We then drove the MDX. It drove about 90% like my TL. Very car like (a good thing), good handling, responsive engine, etc. The only issues we had with it when compared to an RX300 was it was much louder inside (road noise), and the interior bits were no where near the RX300. The arm rest and dash looked very plasticy, while the RX's plastic is limited, and where they did use plastic, it looked better (IMHO).
It was a very tough decision. The price of the RX300/Nav and the MDX Touring/Nav were very similiar. The MDX was bigger inside, but louder. The RX was smaller, but more refined.
In the end, we chose the RX w/Nav, wood accents, etc. $40k out the door.
It's more of a personal preference. We enjoyed the silent cabin environment with higher quality interior bits more than the better handling/bigger size of the MDX.
If your priority is an SUV that is as quiet and smooth-riding as possible, then the RX300 is definitely the better choice for you than an MDX. Lexus has always emphasized driver isolation (sometimes to the detriment of handling, but the 2001 has some small improvements).
We test drove the 2000 RX300 and the 2001 MDX, and the RX definitely felt a level smoother. While the MDX rode more firmly, we found the ride quality acceptable for us -- highly subjective decision. The natural trade-off, we felt, was significantly better handling and a general feeling of more sportiness, despite the MDX's larger size (somewhat more power, a much tighter turning circle, and, frankly, the RX300 felt like it wallowed -- again, the 2001 has made some improvements in this area but hasn't addressed everything).
A couple of caveats. One is that if you already own an RX300 that's pre-2001, I remember one poster on the RX300 forum who objected mightily to the suspension tightening of the 2001 model, compared to his older RX300. He felt it was a marked increase in discomfort for him. So much so that he said he'd get rid of it. I believe in the end the dealership was able to loosen up the springs or something for him and he was okay in the end.
I'd take that one with a grain of salt since it was the view of one poster and I haven't heard similar complaints. He was probably just very sensitive to it, but since you mentioned you didn't want to decrease ride comfort from your current RX, and it might be pre-2001, I figured I'd mention it.
The second caveat are comments on tire noise from the MDX. The base model comes with Goodyear Integrity's (similar to the RX's, though wider -- the relatively skinny tires on the RX help improve ride comfort, though with obvious trade-offs). The Touring Package comes with Michelin Cross Terrain SUV's, which are generally superior to the Goodyears. There is a definite difference in tire noise based on reports comparing the two, as well as some difference in ride comfort.
Nevertheless, again, if your priority is less noise and ride comfort, then the RX300 is really the only choice for you. The M-class and X5 are quiet too but ride harsher than the MDX, and the QX4 isn't a smooth rider either. These areas are the hallmark of the RX300 and Lexus in general.
Is there enough room in the RX for the child seat plus adults? We, too, have a baby and want enough space for the child seat plus adults in front and back. Do you place the seat in the center? If so, does the driver's seat hit it, and is there room back there for adults?
I can answer your question from direct experience. Our son is now in a toddler seat (3 1/2 years & 40 pounds) which is slightly larger than a baby seat. We can easily travel with him and two other adults in back of the RX300. We have the seat on the right hand side (could have used the middle) for personal reasons.
One thing to keep in mind about the RX and MDX (I believe) is that they are both superior to other mid-size SUVs in terms of 2nd row comfort because the seats not only recline but also slide back and forth. This flexibility allows you to trade off some cargo area space for passenger comfort when necessary.
Do yourself a favor and seat in the back of a QX4 or Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited (mid-size luxury SUVs) and then sit in the back of either the MDX or RX. The comfort difference is VERY noticeable.
Looks like tonychrys beat me to it, but here's my take.
It is unrecommended to put the child seat in the middle of the back seats. Reason? If (and hopefully this never happens) you're involved in an accident, and if the child seat straps happen to break, guess where the car seat goes if it's in the middle position? Right inbetween the front seats and into the windshield. If they are placed at the right or left, the front seat will provide an added measure of security.
We learned this after having our seat in the middle for months, thinking that it'll provide better "side impact" protection, and learning that it's better overall on the left or right.
But with the car seat in there (we chose the passenger side rear seat), you can fit two medium sized adults in back next to it. I'm 6'2", 235 pounds, and with me back there, there isn't a ton of space between me and the car seat, but still enough for another small person. The MDX would provide a few more inches of space, but nothing significant.
I do like the fact the the rear seats move forward and back in the RX (not sure if the MDX does that). When we change the baby seat into the forward position (after 1 year old AND 20 pounds weight), we'll move the seat up and gain space in the rear of the car. With it backward facing, it hits the passenger seat head rest if the passenger seat is all the way back.
I agree with tonychrys about comparing rear passenger space with other SUVs. Before looking at the RX, I never thought that I'd buy one due to it's small outside appearance. After looking at it (and the MDX), interior design has come a long way. Too bad the domestic manufacturers don't do the same job.
Actually, the MDX will have a slight advantage over the RX in hip room due to the wider body. I believe the actual numbers are 1" in hip and 3" in shoulder room
But again, both vehicles are superior in overall rear comfort compared to others on the market. I had a Nissan Pathfinder (the Infinit QX4's father)for 4 years and you never want to ride in the rear of that thing for too long! Same goes for my friend's JGCL.
I'm afraid the MDX doesn't have the slide-back-forward second row that the RX does. That said, it may not need it for most people since it has slightly more rear legroom and of course more cargo room behind the seat. Most of the complaints about it not being able to slide is to make some more room for third-row seat passengers.
The MDX has 1.1" more rear hip room, and 4.1" more rear shoulder room, at least according to their manufacturers.
OTOH, I think the rear seat of the Lexus is slightly more comfortable than the MDX's, at least for two passengers. Then again, I find the M-class's second-row seat to be better than both's.
Interesting. Did the recommendation for not putting the child seat in the center of the rear come from a state/government agency, or a certified safety instructor? I'm always interested in this subject, but all the info I've seen still advocates the middle of the rear seat as the safer position.
I have a couple questions. Which is more important for space, hip room or shoulder room?
I've read that the RX is smaller than the MDX, but it sounds like some of you disagree. Is it only the cargo space that is smaller? Also, wmquan, you say the RX is more comfortable. Is that room or just general comfort?
We are currently looking to get a bigger vehicle. We drive a 3-series. Need I say more? We're planning on an MDX cuz of the size and the goodies that are included. Also, I see an awful lot of RX's on the road.
Unfortunately, I had posted a response but the system rejected it, saying I wasn't logged in when I was logged in. I'll try to recompose what I just wrote.
Rear seat room is somewhat subjective in that each manufacturer measures slightly differently. I think both hip room and shoulder room are important. Hip room becomes valuable for men who tend to sit more "splayed". Shoulder room is important for the feeling of spaciousness and can deliver elbow room.
I feel that the MDX has more passenger room in the first two rows than the RX300. The MDX is extremely spacious up front, though the RX does quite well too. I find the RX300's second row a squeeze for three adults, whereas the MDX can accomodate three adults with its increased width.
However, when only one adult or two are seated in the second row of the RX, I do find the RX's second row seat to be more comfortable (because of cushioning and support) than the MDX's second row.
Either vehicle will give you a significant upgrade in space from your 3-series. The MDX will provide some additional passenger space, and significantly more cargo room and payload-by-weight capacity (one doesn't want to put 4 200lb'ers and their cargo in an RX because of payload limits, at least as inferred by a Dateline article mentioned here some time ago).
I've probably already asked this, and forgive me if you've already responded, but have you considered an MB ML320 or a Toyota Highlander? The former is an excellent vehicle and its space is closer to the MDX than the RX's, and the latter has some of the positive attributes of the RX300 (two designs off the same general platform) with more room. Good luck!
Stacy, as William pointed out, comfort is very subjective. There are all kinds of factors, such as the angle of the bottom cushion (which no manufacturer bothers to publish), seat material compliancy, etc.
My suggestion is that you test drive with at least three adults. We did it with myself, wife and her sister. My wife and I would take turns riding in the back. Throw in the sales person and you have decent payload.
Thanks for your suggestions. To be honest, I think the MB is kind of ugly (no offense). Also, from your comments on acuramdx.org, it doesn't sound like you are THAT big of a fan. The Highlander is a bit smaller, but of course, pretty much anything is bigger than our car! I think I am just pretty sold on the MDX. I like how everything is standard, whereas with other vehicles (MB, Highlander and I think RX) you have to pay extra for the upgrades, and that really pushes up the price.
Thanks for the input and I am trying to keep an open mind to other options, but I just can't seem to find something comparable that beats out the MDX. Also, I spend most of my time on acuramdx.org, where it's not the most objective bunch. I just hate that I am pretty much going to have to wait for a 2002. At least I have plenty of time to change my mind.
Stacy: You might want to have a look at the 2002 ML. They got rid of most of the "minivan" look and added a bunch more luxury features. As for room, I think it depends if the people have more girth around their waist or shoulders ;-)
Vehicle selection is always an intensely personal choice. My own comments on acuramdx.org are more contextually focused. As you have observed, that system is not intended to be an objective forum, and is the target of a lot of "trolling," where highly biased remarks, mistruths, and misinformation usually require aggressive counterpoints. In other words, being diplomatic and/or subtle doesn't seem to carry the point as effectively there.
No one's totally unbiased, and if I read another poster sanctimoniously calling the RX300 a "miracle" or that the ML320 is the be-all-end-all and every-other-vehicle-is-headed-for-the-ditch, I'll certainly post a counterpoint. (Tony, I don't know if you were here for that famous "I can only think of one word ... miracle ..." post.) Similarly, it irks me that some (some) Acura dealerships are treating the MDX as if it's their gift to mankind, and that the customer should bow down.
Plus I've got a co-worker who's a die-hard MB fan and I've got to stay sharp against him ;-)
As long-time readers here know, I ended up ranking the 2000 ML320 closely behind the 2001 MDX we ended up buying. And if I had to make the choice over again, I might even rate the 2002 ML320 in front of the 2001 MDX (if the rumors for 2002 features are true, and if the pricing is in line, which I'm less sure about).
That all said, my wife rated the MDX far ahead of the ML320, and still does.
I know by most standards the ML320 is not an attractive vehicle (I have never come around to liking it, my wife likes it much less, and her mother reminds her every 1.75 months that she loves our MDX and can't believe we even considered "that ugly Mercedes").
Nevertheless, I do, respectfully, think you'd be doing a disservice to yourself if you didn't test drive an ML320. One thought I had for your shopping is that if you enjoy the "German feel" of your 3-series, the ML320 will give you that in an SUV.
M-class reliability has improved to average or above average. I don't think it'll ever be very high or on a par with Japanese models (MB's in general don't score as high as Lexus or Acuras), but it has definitely improved from the 98/99/00 levels.
Rob (cotmc) may also be able to help; he compared the MDX and ML320 closely, and had a BMW 3-series and needed some room for his toddler. He's even steered some (happy) MDX buyers from California to the Arizona dealership he purchased from, so they could get the MDX sooner.
Sort of off-topic, but this pops up every once in a while since many current and prospective MDX owners are interested in child safety ...
A good source of information on the fit of a car seat can be found at www.carseatdata.org
Toby's done a great job of putting together a user-contributed database of what car seats people have put into their vehicle, and how if fits. It's not a for-profit system.
Unfortunately, since the MDX is new, there are relatively few entries. I'd encourage anyone who'd like to help others to post their own data to Toby.
I was a bit shocked to find only one car seat data point for the RX300 there. It's been around for a bit, and the M-class has 7 entries. Higher-volume vehicles can have dozens of data points.
Nope, you didn't offend. It's an personal opinion. I've been known to refer to my ML as "the minivan" to get people to stop ragging on me about getting a "Mercedes", though it doesn't seem to affect their presumptions on the giant star on the front :-P
The 2002 is coming out early this year. Builds are starting in late June. You should see it in Sept. Reliability of my 2001 has been excellent though there have been a few squeaks and rattles that come and go (I haven't asked the dealer to try to fix them yet...no sense in doing that until they're reproducible at will or they'll be chasing ghosts).
It might help us to help you more if you could tell us what your priorities are. I.e., what you like and don't like of all the ones you've tried already.
I just talked to our salesman on the phone and told him that I plan to order most of our accessories from hondacuraworld. He warned me that we will have a hard time installing the rear splash guards because holes need to be drilled. I was under the impression that the holes are pre-drilled so we would just have to bolt the guards on. Am I wrong?
How about installation of the cargo cover? Does that present any difficulties?
I installed my rear splash guards myself. The instructions call for using three screws for each splash guard. Two holes are already there, but one, directly behind the rear wheel, is only scribed in the plastic (not metal). You have to punch a hole through that portion, which is pretty easy with a punch (I used needle-nosed pliers).
The main difficulty with the splash guards is that the screw that goes into that hole is very close to the rear wheel. You need a very, very short screwdriver or an "L" driver to screw it in. Either that, or you have to remove the rear wheel. Frankly, I put it in without that screw and haven't had a problem. If I was going to drive around in deep snow, I'd probably make sure to put it in, though.
The cargo cover is a very simple do-it-yourself installation. Pop open one pair of slots for it (plastic caps come off), and you put it in like a window shade. It's rather outrageous that dealers try to charge installation for it, it should be a courtesy.
Good call on ordering from Tim at www.hondacuraworld.com, his prices AND service are both great.
Here goes: We are looking for a vehicle with a lot of passenger room and cargo room, without venturing into the full-size SUV or minivan market. We were initially considering a Volvo V70, but upon reading drive tests, it sounds like the rear seat is still fairly small (no legroom). I know we are pretty much driving a matchbox right now, but we want to upgrade to something that will last us through this baby plus maybe another. We want both front and rear passengers to be comfortable, even if they are close to or over 6'.
We like the third row option, so we can either have more passengers or cargo. We want to be able to cram a lot of stuff (usually baby stuff) back there with no problem.
We are looking for a vehicle without a truck-like feel. I don't know if we are looking for a smooth-as-glass drive, but something comfortable.
We are kind of gadget folks in that we like all the extra goodies: trip computer, moonroof, leather, CD, dual a/c unit, steering wheel mounted controls, etc. However, we can't afford to go much over $40K.
Thanks for all your input. I didn't mean to turn this into a "find a car for Stacy" post. :-)
Please, this forum and others like it are partly intended to help folks like yourself. We'd be glad to help, please do not be afraid to ask.
A few questions on your priorities:
1) How many adults and children do you expect to carry for normal trips, and during exceptions. E.g. do you expect to carry two adults and a child routinely, or four adults, etc. Do you have occasional 5/6 adult-passenger loads, and how long will those trips be?
2) When you say you would prefer a vehicle without a truck-like feel, could you please elaborate on what you consider a truck-like feel? Is it ponderous-ness in steering? Is it mostly the quality (smoothness) of the ride as you mentioned? Or truck-like in terms of increased suspension travel as you go over bumps?
3) What type of bad-weather driving do you anticipate doing? Occasional heavy rain? Some occasional snow in the mountains, or frequent snow?
4) Do you plan to go off-roading in the vehicle, and if so, is it simple dirt trails or boulder-stuff?
We looked at the Volvo V70 but were frightened by recent negative Consumer Reports predictions of reliability. We also thought it was pretty high-priced versus what else we could purchase.
Incidentally, Volvo has just recalled about 16k 2000 and 2001 V70's because the ISOFIX attachments may be loose, causing ISOFIX-attached child seats to come off during an accident. Volvo also recalled a much smaller number of V70's (I think about 3k) for loose rear seat belt fittings.
While no manufacturer is immune to recalls (the first 1.5 months of the MDX's production run had a mini-recall because of the potential for the passenger airbag to not properly deploy in a low-speed collision), one doesn't expect a Volvo's safety systems to be problematic, especially when children are involved (I'm a fan of ISOFIX -- even though I think a properly installed seat can offset the need for ISOFIX -- and am disappointed the MDX does not offer it; BTW I think the 2002 ML320 will have it -- Tony, doesn't the 2001 RX300 have ISOFIX attachments?).
1) We typically have two adults and one baby. However, fairly often we may have four adults plus the little one. On average, most trips would be 30-45 minutes, once in a while we may exceed one hour.
2) I guess the truck-like feel is bumpy to me. I have ridden in Pathfinders, Explorers and Toyota trucks and I feel like me teeth are going to fall out (exaggeration). I prefer a smoother ride. I hope that helps clarify.
3) We live in Northern California (Sacramento), so weather is pretty much not an issue. We can get heavy rain, but nothing like I've seen in other parts of the country. I guess we could hit some snow when we go up to Tahoe.
4) No off-roading at all.
I didn't know that information about the Volvo. That is really scary. Of all features on the Volvo, I would not expect the safety features to be recalled.
We've had our base MDX now for 2 weeks and began noticing a rattle inside the dash somewhere behind the panel underneath the steering column. For some reason it is only noticeable when driving straight. While turning, (or driving in a 360 degree circle i a large parking lot) it goes away. In searching for the culprit, I found a plastic plug underneath that same panel that isn't connected to anything. The dealer stated that it might be a connector for a diagnostic device of some sort.
Has anyone experienced a similar rattle? Does anyone have that unattached plug below and behind the panel underneath the steering coulmn. It is visible just above the pedals without removing the panel.
One key question is: if you use the 3rd row seats, will you want to carry cargo at the same time? Both the ML and MDX are not as long as a minivan, so if they seats are up, there is very little space in the back (though w/ the ML, you can use just a single 3rd seat...can't remember if you can do that w/ the MDX). Also, if you get the 3rd row seat w/ the ML, it'll probably be over your 40K limit. I also considered the Volvo XC and Audi Allroad, but both are overpriced IMHO.
As for the trucky feeling, you should test drive both. Since you come from a 3 series, you may like the feel of the ML since steering feel is more "German"/heavy. William and I both drove Integra's before (his was the first full Acura design whilst mine was the old souped up Civic; my ride was more jarring than his) and he chose the MDX while I chose the ML. The MDX feels very much like an Acura sedan w/ higher seating and much more space. The ML feels more like my old Integra, but a bit "bouncier" (what you may call truck like) and less stiff/jarring. What I didn't like about the MDX was the really light steering...still very precise, but way too light. You didn't specify if safety is a criteria, but it's implied by your looking at a Volvo; the ML has a few more safety features (and head curtains for MY2002).
At any rate, I think you're in the right ballpark. Give the MDX a test drive and let us know how you like it. Be sure you test the Touring model of the MDX; the tire difference between the Base and it is like night and day...
You've done your homework very well. As Ken said, you're definitely in the right ballpark.
From your priorites, I think the RX300 might still fit your needs if the two adults in the rear aren't too large, and if the RX300's cargo room behind the rear seat is adequate for you. An advantage of the RX is that you'd be able to get one with minimal trouble, and it will also have the smoothest ride.
It's still worth test-driving an ML320. I suspect, but can't be sure, that it may not as smooth a ride as you may like, based on your comments on your comfort level in a Pathfinder, Explorer, and Toyota trucks.
When we test-drove a 2000 ML320, we were surprised that its ride felt jarring over mid-sized bumps; there were some definite jolts that my wife and I didn't expect. My father-in-law compared it to the ride in his big GMC pickup, though obviously the ML320's handling is much, much better in comparison. The ride quality was a major factor in our decision, as after having ridden low and punishingly in an Integra (the smooth one, according to Ken!) for six years, we couldn't see ourselves "moving up" and still getting jolted.
However, ride comfort is immensely subjective so you may find that it's no big deal (e.g. "what was he talking about, it's fine for me!"). Many people love the ride of the ML320. Please be sure that the dealership has the tires inflated to the correct pressure because that can make a huge difference in ride quality (you'd be surprised at how many dealerships don't check).
The cargo area behind the third row seat of the MDX is slightly more than behind the third row seat of the ML320's, though it's still quite small. Maybe room for five or six grocery sacks mounted side by side, but nothing more. With the ML320, you can fold one or both third row seats (though they do take up some space) or remove them entirely. With the MDX you can fold one or both into the floor. Access to the third row of the ML320 is easier than the MDX, and there is slightly more room in the former's.
The MDX has noticeably more useable cargo room behind the second row seat than the ML320, while only slightly more when the second row is folded down.
As Ken pointed out, the MB does have significantly more safety features than the MDX does, though I consider the MDX a safe vehicle.
The ML320 will certainly cost more, though maintenance scheduled by its computer is free for the warranty period.
Please do check the M-class forum for the latest information on 2002 improvements. There may be some features in that list that may significantly sway your decision.
Not too much off-topic since it relates to MDX steering feel ...
It's funny because when we bought the '95 Integra we also test drove, among others, a '95 Civic. We thought the steering on that Civic felt heavier than the Integra. I guess based on the cars we've driven, we're just used to lighter steering feel, as long as it's precise.
Isofix: Yes, the RX300 does have ISOFIX latches on the 2001. What really stinks is that the market for toddler seats that use them is almost non-existent. We just went through this whole episode when we picked up the Rex and couldn't find a toddler seat (40 to 60 pound children) that used the latches. We ended up getting a CR recommend seat that used the top tether though.
Stacy: I've read your various comments, and the folks here are absolutley right, you gotta start test driving for yourself. It sounds like you've done your paper research, time for the real tests. But I will say based on your messages of likes and needs, you are a prime MDX customer. In my experience, the MDX will be less "truckier" than an ML320, the ML320 just happens to be a superior off-roader than a MDX or RX300. Plus, the MDX has all the nice "gadgets" you said you liked.
My rundown of the three vehicles, and is purely subjective, you have to judge for yourself:
ML320 Pros: Can take good abuse because it is actually built on a truck frame. The safest vehicle out of all three in terms of overall active and passive saftey systems. Good cargo space, third row seating. Cons: Has the gadgets you like, but to get a "loaded" ML will coast you more than an equivalent MDX or RX unless unusual/year-end discounts are involved. To me, many MB interiors are "ulitarian" in some ways and I don't care for the body shape.
RX300 Pros: Best luxury ride out of the three. Has all the gadgets as the other three, plus a superior navigation system. A fully loaded RX300 can be had for the least money at the present moment. Cons: Last in terms of cargo space, no third row seating possible. The stock tires that come with it are a joke, they contribute to the "compliant" ride because of the thin sidewalls. Spending an extra $450 on a set of Michelins or Pirellis will dramatically improve handling (but having to spend extra $$ is a negative), although some dealers will let you swap out before taking delivery.
MDX Pros: Has good all-around set of "gadgets". Great cargo space, with third row seating. Handling/ride will be in the middle of the RX and ML, not too "luxo" and not too "trucky". Cons: Hard to get right now. Certain saftey features that are available on the RX and ML are not available yet on the MDX.
That's an extremely quick summary on the vehicles themselves, you really should try to test drive an MDX at a dealer that hopefully has a demo. Based on your feedback I think you'll like it.
William: I think the '95 Civic (double wishbone suspension) was a generation or two after my '88 Integra (which was based on the ancient '84? Civic w/ the torsion bar front suspension). I'm almost sure they softened up the steering feel in that version to make it more "luxurious" :-)
And yes, your Integra was "smoother" (!!); the reviews I read of the full redesign '90 model griped that it wasn't as much fun on the track because the suspension was too soft. My wife has a friend who has a '92 and I've ridden in hers..it almost has an A4 feel, though the A4 has a smoother suspension. Ironically, mine started rusting at 6yrs and hers started at 6yrs as well. Same area (rear wheel wells). That was another reason I couldn't go w/ the MDX (though I've never seen an RL w/ rust there so maybe Acura is better). It's the little things that bug you (I'm hoping we'll hear more of Stacy's :-)
I thought I would chime in to say that all I've ever read indicates that the middle of the back seat really is the safest place for a car seat. Here's one link to a discussion: http://www.carseat.org/answer. Also, I have had my seat installation checked twice by certified technicians, and both times they have recommended it be in the middle. But if you have info to the contrary, please share.
Just to be 100% sure I know what I'm talking about - the holes are pre-drilled (except for the one I have to punch out) on the splash guards themselves as well as where they attach to the car?
I hate to think the salesman is taking advantage of my lack of car knowledge, and pretending to be all innocent about it. Thanks for your help.
I know we need to test drive, but as you know I would probably have better luck finding Santa's sleigh than a demo MDX. We were called by one dealership and by the time we got there, it was sold. Typical story.
I think we are going to try to drive the RX today, if the little girl will allow us. :-) I'm just a little hesitant because it seems like they are EVERYWHERE. However, by the time supply catches up to demand for the MDX, they may be the same. Also, I drove a Honda Accord for 9 years, and they are everywere. I'm also concerned about the RX being smaller.
We will probably rarely using the third row seat, so we will usually have them folded down, but it would definitely be nice to have the option.
How is the resale value on the RX? I know MB has good resale and it's too early for the MDX.
I'll have to check a little more into the 2002 ML. Can the back side air bags be turned off?
If we do decide on the MDX, there are some accessories we will want to get. If we purchase them from hondacuraworld, where could we have them installed? We are not the most mechanically inclined. I think we'd have side steps done by the dealer, though.
I was looking through the MDX brochure under the seating and trim section. It doesn't actually say the MDX has leather seats. It says Leather-appointed interior (front and 2nd row only) and Leather-wrapped steering wheel & shift knob. I looked on Acura's web page and the information there is equally evasive. Can anyone tell me if the MDX has leather seats and what the third row seats are covered with?
No, you cannot turn the ML's rear side impact airbags off. MB has found the pros to far outweigh the cons (read would you want the door structure to make contact with your body or child seat, rather than being cushioned by the airbag?) and hence refuses to deactivate them. All you have to do is make sure that your passengers do not lean against the doors.
If you're interested in the M-class, you may want to read the Mercedes-Benz M-class discussion topic. Please note that your dealer won't know much on the MY2002 ML since it won't be released till September or October of this year. However, there is plenty of discussion on it in the M-class topic.
Good luck! Drew Host Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards
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I'm sure if somebody took the time to research this spellchecker (to learn of all the changes it recommends), a very amusing post could be launched as a result!
1. My MDS is a base with P235/65TR17 BSW tires
2. Thanks for the advice. I know I should brake hard before the turn and accelerate while making turns. But I can't remember what I did at that time.
3. I haven't checked out the tire pressure yet and I will. Do you mean that the rear tire's pressure should be higher than 32psi that the front tire pressure has?
4. Very good point. I'll check it out if the ramp is sandy.
Anyway I should drive slow next time before any turns. BTW, I got a ticket due to not fully stop at the stop sign. Damn it!
As for pressures, within a reasonable range (24-40 psi, perhaps), it is the RELATIVE pressures between front and rear that can "tune" the car's balance between overteer (loose rear end) and understeer (you need to turn the wheel More than you intended, or the front end will go off the pavement by the end of the turn--ACTUALLY this is considered "safer" since any idiot realizes when he has to turn the wheel MORE to stay on the road!)
Cars handle more crisply with higher pressures (and also get better fuel economy since rolling resistance is less), at the expense of ride softness, so manufacturers recommend what they think is a good compromise pressure. If looseness is persistant, and alignment is not the cause, lowering front pressure to 28-30 psi might solve the problem.
PS Did you trade in a 3-series for the MDX?
PPS You might look at the "Tires,tires,tires" topic on the "Accessories & Aftermarket" board-- lots of examples there of people saying that switching to a better series/brand of tire made a significant diference in the same car's handling-- I firmly believe in researching and upgrading tires, at least when it is time to replace, or if you have special requirements (i.e. snow/ice, offroad, or performance driving)
FWIW, when I test drove a Touring MDX, it did not slide and handled great. Someone on the M-class list said his Base MDX test drive was horrible...tires squealed a lot and didn't feel grippy...
I'd suggest a tire upgrade if you want to continue w/ your driving style ;-)
The Michelin CT's are good. Dunlop will also be releasing SP5000's for SUVs this year and Audi folks love them.
Drew
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Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards
I am concerned about mileage. I have seen some consistent posts of mid teens. Is 24 realistic on a steady trip?
INKY
"Your mileage may vary" is especially true with the MDX. People's mileage numbers are all over the map, and are dramatically affected by the style of driving. Straight highway cruising does well, predictably, but driving around town doesn't. See:
http://www.acuramdx.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=1040
Honda/Acura not making more is a constant lament and has been debated ad nauseum. I simply think it's attributable to 1) Honda/Acura's relatively smaller size and smaller reach, as compared with behemoths like Toyota, and 2) Honda/Acura's notoriously conservative management.
As far as the MDX goes, everyone was saying before release that it was late in the game. A lot of auto critics openly speculated that it was too late, that the MDX was coming into a saturated market where it'd be overwhelmed by the existing competition. Now, obviously, the auto press loves the MDX, and dealers are not having any problems selling their allocation.
Congratulations!
Glad to see you're still here! I've been away doing some house hunting. We now have about 10.5K miles on our MDX. Problem is that we still like it quite a bit, and we think it is the perfect family vehicle for our situation. Because of that, I might have to hold onto this MDX for at least two years, which will likely cause me to lose the "cotmc" name!
Jim:
We can get 24mpg on a relatively straight highway traveling at about 70mph. We get between 17 and 18mpg around town. Hopefully that is just as good or better than the RX300 AWD, although it wouldn't surprise me if the RX300 2WD does a little better. After all, the MDX is a bigger and wider car. There must be more wind resistance to it.
I also strongly agree with you with waiting for the 2002 model year, just due to the additional resale value. If Acura dealers don't discount at the end of the year, I would personally not buy a 2001 MDX at MSRP in August or September.
I don't think this sounds like a strong consideration for you, but it might interest you... I know of a local dealer who has 2 MDXs on their lot (at MSRP). I don't know for sure if their waiting list on some models is negligible, or if people are cancelling their refundable deposits? Anyway, one of them was a base emerald green with beige interior, possibly close to what you were wanting.
Kenyee/Bobput, As the current Goodyears tires are still new, I wouldn't want to upgrade them to Michelin. But definitely I will in couple years.
I saw one message that says Accura changed the fluid change mileage to 7500 all of the time, not just the first change.
Does anyone have any info?
Some owners have noted above average wind noise with the MDX. We have a base model, without the roof rack, but with a moonroof visor, and I have absolutely no complaints with wind noise. I believe the roof rack adds to the wind noise at highway speeds. My neighbor did a comparison test between two different MDXs to draw that same conclusion: The Touring model with the roof rack was noiser for him than the base model without the roof rack.
With over 10K miles on our MDX, we have yet to hear any rattles or creaks. Being a unit-body design, I would expect these types of noises to be minimal in the MDX, compared to most other SUVs.
http://hondabeat.com/acura/mdx.cfm
COTMC - Maybe the VW Colorado can sway you towards your nature.
The VW SUV should be a very interesting competitor to the MDX. It probably won't be a better value than the MDX since VW seems determined to go upscale and their current model line can't be described as being very high in value given their street prices.
However, VW could and probably will top Acura in terms of styling, overall pizazz, some of that vaunted German-car feeling, and safety engineering.
Since I"m from the car-of-the-decade cycle (okay, maybe not that bad), I guess I'll be sitting this one out!
RATED 3 OUT OF 10.
RIDE QUALITY THEY STATE. "FIRM BUT NOT JOLTING EVEN OVER LARGE BUMPS, THOUGH A LEXUS RX IS MUCH BETTER THAN MDX AT IRONING OUT LUMPY FREEWAYS."
RATED 5 OUT OF 10.
ANY CURRENT MDX OWNERS HAVE SOME INFO ON THESE TOPICS, SINCE ITS ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO FIND A DEMO TO TEST DRIVE. CURRENTLY OWN RX300 I WOULD HATE TO GO TO A LOUDER,FIRM RIDING VECHILE. THANKS
About a month ago, my wife and I were deciding which SUV to buy since our '99 Acura TL was getting a little too cramped with our 8 month old's car seat. We narrowed our choice down to the MDX and RX300. We ruled out the X5 due to lack of space and price, and the ML320/430 due to reliability issues and everything being an option.
We test drove both the RX300 (AWD) and MDX (Touring/Nav) back to back (funny that the Lexus and Acura dealerships are across the street from each other in Walpole, MA). We first drove the RX300. The ride is silent, very smooth, refined, good power, etc. The interior quality is top notch.
We then drove the MDX. It drove about 90% like my TL. Very car like (a good thing), good handling, responsive engine, etc. The only issues we had with it when compared to an RX300 was it was much louder inside (road noise), and the interior bits were no where near the RX300. The arm rest and dash looked very plasticy, while the RX's plastic is limited, and where they did use plastic, it looked better (IMHO).
It was a very tough decision. The price of the RX300/Nav and the MDX Touring/Nav were very similiar. The MDX was bigger inside, but louder. The RX was smaller, but more refined.
In the end, we chose the RX w/Nav, wood accents, etc. $40k out the door.
It's more of a personal preference. We enjoyed the silent cabin environment with higher quality interior bits more than the better handling/bigger size of the MDX.
-Craig
We test drove the 2000 RX300 and the 2001 MDX, and the RX definitely felt a level smoother. While the MDX rode more firmly, we found the ride quality acceptable for us -- highly subjective decision. The natural trade-off, we felt, was significantly better handling and a general feeling of more sportiness, despite the MDX's larger size (somewhat more power, a much tighter turning circle, and, frankly, the RX300 felt like it wallowed -- again, the 2001 has made some improvements in this area but hasn't addressed everything).
A couple of caveats. One is that if you already own an RX300 that's pre-2001, I remember one poster on the RX300 forum who objected mightily to the suspension tightening of the 2001 model, compared to his older RX300. He felt it was a marked increase in discomfort for him. So much so that he said he'd get rid of it. I believe in the end the dealership was able to loosen up the springs or something for him and he was okay in the end.
I'd take that one with a grain of salt since it was the view of one poster and I haven't heard similar complaints. He was probably just very sensitive to it, but since you mentioned you didn't want to decrease ride comfort from your current RX, and it might be pre-2001, I figured I'd mention it.
The second caveat are comments on tire noise from the MDX. The base model comes with Goodyear Integrity's (similar to the RX's, though wider -- the relatively skinny tires on the RX help improve ride comfort, though with obvious trade-offs). The Touring Package comes with Michelin Cross Terrain SUV's, which are generally superior to the Goodyears. There is a definite difference in tire noise based on reports comparing the two, as well as some difference in ride comfort.
Nevertheless, again, if your priority is less noise and ride comfort, then the RX300 is really the only choice for you. The M-class and X5 are quiet too but ride harsher than the MDX, and the QX4 isn't a smooth rider either. These areas are the hallmark of the RX300 and Lexus in general.
One thing to keep in mind about the RX and MDX (I believe) is that they are both superior to other mid-size SUVs in terms of 2nd row comfort because the seats not only recline but also slide back and forth. This flexibility allows you to trade off some cargo area space for passenger comfort when necessary.
Do yourself a favor and seat in the back of a QX4 or Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited (mid-size luxury SUVs) and then sit in the back of either the MDX or RX. The comfort difference is VERY noticeable.
TC
It is unrecommended to put the child seat in the middle of the back seats. Reason? If (and hopefully this never happens) you're involved in an accident, and if the child seat straps happen to break, guess where the car seat goes if it's in the middle position? Right inbetween the front seats and into the windshield. If they are placed at the right or left, the front seat will provide an added measure of security.
We learned this after having our seat in the middle for months, thinking that it'll provide better "side impact" protection, and learning that it's better overall on the left or right.
But with the car seat in there (we chose the passenger side rear seat), you can fit two medium sized adults in back next to it. I'm 6'2", 235 pounds, and with me back there, there isn't a ton of space between me and the car seat, but still enough for another small person. The MDX would provide a few more inches of space, but nothing significant.
I do like the fact the the rear seats move forward and back in the RX (not sure if the MDX does that). When we change the baby seat into the forward position (after 1 year old AND 20 pounds weight), we'll move the seat up and gain space in the rear of the car. With it backward facing, it hits the passenger seat head rest if the passenger seat is all the way back.
I agree with tonychrys about comparing rear passenger space with other SUVs. Before looking at the RX, I never thought that I'd buy one due to it's small outside appearance. After looking at it (and the MDX), interior design has come a long way. Too bad the domestic manufacturers don't do the same job.
-Craig
But again, both vehicles are superior in overall rear comfort compared to others on the market. I had a Nissan Pathfinder (the Infinit QX4's father)for 4 years and you never want to ride in the rear of that thing for too long! Same goes for my friend's JGCL.
The MDX has 1.1" more rear hip room, and 4.1" more rear shoulder room, at least according to their manufacturers.
OTOH, I think the rear seat of the Lexus is slightly more comfortable than the MDX's, at least for two passengers. Then again, I find the M-class's second-row seat to be better than both's.
Thanks!
I've read that the RX is smaller than the MDX, but it sounds like some of you disagree. Is it only the cargo space that is smaller? Also, wmquan, you say the RX is more comfortable. Is that room or just general comfort?
We are currently looking to get a bigger vehicle. We drive a 3-series. Need I say more? We're planning on an MDX cuz of the size and the goodies that are included. Also, I see an awful lot of RX's on the road.
Rear seat room is somewhat subjective in that each manufacturer measures slightly differently. I think both hip room and shoulder room are important. Hip room becomes valuable for men who tend to sit more "splayed". Shoulder room is important for the feeling of spaciousness and can deliver elbow room.
I feel that the MDX has more passenger room in the first two rows than the RX300. The MDX is extremely spacious up front, though the RX does quite well too. I find the RX300's second row a squeeze for three adults, whereas the MDX can accomodate three adults with its increased width.
However, when only one adult or two are seated in the second row of the RX, I do find the RX's second row seat to be more comfortable (because of cushioning and support) than the MDX's second row.
Either vehicle will give you a significant upgrade in space from your 3-series. The MDX will provide some additional passenger space, and significantly more cargo room and payload-by-weight capacity (one doesn't want to put 4 200lb'ers and their cargo in an RX because of payload limits, at least as inferred by a Dateline article mentioned here some time ago).
I've probably already asked this, and forgive me if you've already responded, but have you considered an MB ML320 or a Toyota Highlander? The former is an excellent vehicle and its space is closer to the MDX than the RX's, and the latter has some of the positive attributes of the RX300 (two designs off the same general platform) with more room. Good luck!
My suggestion is that you test drive with at least three adults. We did it with myself, wife and her sister. My wife and I would take turns riding in the back. Throw in the sales person and you have decent payload.
Good luck and happy shopping!
Thanks for the input and I am trying to keep an open mind to other options, but I just can't seem to find something comparable that beats out the MDX. Also, I spend most of my time on acuramdx.org, where it's not the most objective bunch. I just hate that I am pretty much going to have to wait for a 2002. At least I have plenty of time to change my mind.
You might want to have a look at the 2002 ML. They got rid of most of the "minivan" look and added a bunch more luxury features.
As for room, I think it depends if the people have more girth around their waist or shoulders ;-)
Do you know when the 2002 is coming out? Also, how is the reliability for MB?
No one's totally unbiased, and if I read another poster sanctimoniously calling the RX300 a "miracle" or that the ML320 is the be-all-end-all and every-other-vehicle-is-headed-for-the-ditch, I'll certainly post a counterpoint. (Tony, I don't know if you were here for that famous "I can only think of one word ... miracle ..." post.) Similarly, it irks me that some (some) Acura dealerships are treating the MDX as if it's their gift to mankind, and that the customer should bow down.
Plus I've got a co-worker who's a die-hard MB fan and I've got to stay sharp against him ;-)
As long-time readers here know, I ended up ranking the 2000 ML320 closely behind the 2001 MDX we ended up buying. And if I had to make the choice over again, I might even rate the 2002 ML320 in front of the 2001 MDX (if the rumors for 2002 features are true, and if the pricing is in line, which I'm less sure about).
That all said, my wife rated the MDX far ahead of the ML320, and still does.
I know by most standards the ML320 is not an attractive vehicle (I have never come around to liking it, my wife likes it much less, and her mother reminds her every 1.75 months that she loves our MDX and can't believe we even considered "that ugly Mercedes").
Nevertheless, I do, respectfully, think you'd be doing a disservice to yourself if you didn't test drive an ML320. One thought I had for your shopping is that if you enjoy the "German feel" of your 3-series, the ML320 will give you that in an SUV.
M-class reliability has improved to average or above average. I don't think it'll ever be very high or on a par with Japanese models (MB's in general don't score as high as Lexus or Acuras), but it has definitely improved from the 98/99/00 levels.
Rob (cotmc) may also be able to help; he compared the MDX and ML320 closely, and had a BMW 3-series and needed some room for his toddler. He's even steered some (happy) MDX buyers from California to the Arizona dealership he purchased from, so they could get the MDX sooner.
Good luck!
A good source of information on the fit of a car seat can be found at www.carseatdata.org
Toby's done a great job of putting together a user-contributed database of what car seats people have put into their vehicle, and how if fits. It's not a for-profit system.
Unfortunately, since the MDX is new, there are relatively few entries. I'd encourage anyone who'd like to help others to post their own data to Toby.
I was a bit shocked to find only one car seat data point for the RX300 there. It's been around for a bit, and the M-class has 7 entries. Higher-volume vehicles can have dozens of data points.
The 2002 is coming out early this year. Builds are starting in late June. You should see it in Sept. Reliability of my 2001 has been excellent though there have been a few squeaks and rattles that come and go (I haven't asked the dealer to try to fix them yet...no sense in doing that until they're reproducible at will or they'll be chasing ghosts).
It might help us to help you more if you could tell us what your priorities are. I.e., what you like and don't like of all the ones you've tried already.
How about installation of the cargo cover? Does that present any difficulties?
The main difficulty with the splash guards is that the screw that goes into that hole is very close to the rear wheel. You need a very, very short screwdriver or an "L" driver to screw it in. Either that, or you have to remove the rear wheel. Frankly, I put it in without that screw and haven't had a problem. If I was going to drive around in deep snow, I'd probably make sure to put it in, though.
The cargo cover is a very simple do-it-yourself installation. Pop open one pair of slots for it (plastic caps come off), and you put it in like a window shade. It's rather outrageous that dealers try to charge installation for it, it should be a courtesy.
Good call on ordering from Tim at www.hondacuraworld.com, his prices AND service are both great.
We like the third row option, so we can either have more passengers or cargo. We want to be able to cram a lot of stuff (usually baby stuff) back there with no problem.
We are looking for a vehicle without a truck-like feel. I don't know if we are looking for a smooth-as-glass drive, but something comfortable.
We are kind of gadget folks in that we like all the extra goodies: trip computer, moonroof, leather, CD, dual a/c unit, steering wheel mounted controls, etc. However, we can't afford to go much over $40K.
Thanks for all your input. I didn't mean to turn this into a "find a car for Stacy" post. :-)
A few questions on your priorities:
1) How many adults and children do you expect to carry for normal trips, and during exceptions. E.g. do you expect to carry two adults and a child routinely, or four adults, etc. Do you have occasional 5/6 adult-passenger loads, and how long will those trips be?
2) When you say you would prefer a vehicle without a truck-like feel, could you please elaborate on what you consider a truck-like feel? Is it ponderous-ness in steering? Is it mostly the quality (smoothness) of the ride as you mentioned? Or truck-like in terms of increased suspension travel as you go over bumps?
3) What type of bad-weather driving do you anticipate doing? Occasional heavy rain? Some occasional snow in the mountains, or frequent snow?
4) Do you plan to go off-roading in the vehicle, and if so, is it simple dirt trails or boulder-stuff?
We looked at the Volvo V70 but were frightened by recent negative Consumer Reports predictions of reliability. We also thought it was pretty high-priced versus what else we could purchase.
Incidentally, Volvo has just recalled about 16k 2000 and 2001 V70's because the ISOFIX attachments may be loose, causing ISOFIX-attached child seats to come off during an accident. Volvo also recalled a much smaller number of V70's (I think about 3k) for loose rear seat belt fittings.
While no manufacturer is immune to recalls (the first 1.5 months of the MDX's production run had a mini-recall because of the potential for the passenger airbag to not properly deploy in a low-speed collision), one doesn't expect a Volvo's safety systems to be problematic, especially when children are involved (I'm a fan of ISOFIX -- even though I think a properly installed seat can offset the need for ISOFIX -- and am disappointed the MDX does not offer it; BTW I think the 2002 ML320 will have it -- Tony, doesn't the 2001 RX300 have ISOFIX attachments?).
1) We typically have two adults and one baby. However, fairly often we may have four adults plus the little one. On average, most trips would be 30-45 minutes, once in a while we may exceed one hour.
2) I guess the truck-like feel is bumpy to me. I have ridden in Pathfinders, Explorers and Toyota trucks and I feel like me teeth are going to fall out (exaggeration). I prefer a smoother ride. I hope that helps clarify.
3) We live in Northern California (Sacramento), so weather is pretty much not an issue. We can get heavy rain, but nothing like I've seen in other parts of the country. I guess we could hit some snow when we go up to Tahoe.
4) No off-roading at all.
I didn't know that information about the Volvo. That is really scary. Of all features on the Volvo, I would not expect the safety features to be recalled.
Has anyone experienced a similar rattle?
Does anyone have that unattached plug below and behind the panel underneath the steering coulmn. It is visible just above the pedals without removing the panel.
As for the trucky feeling, you should test drive both. Since you come from a 3 series, you may like the feel of the ML since steering feel is more "German"/heavy. William and I both drove Integra's before (his was the first full Acura design whilst mine was the old souped up Civic; my ride was more jarring than his) and he chose the MDX while I chose the ML. The MDX feels very much like an Acura sedan w/ higher seating and much more space. The ML feels more like my old Integra, but a bit "bouncier" (what you may call truck like) and less stiff/jarring. What I didn't like about the MDX was the really light steering...still very precise, but way too light. You didn't specify if safety is a criteria, but it's implied by your looking at a Volvo; the ML has a few more safety features (and head curtains for MY2002).
At any rate, I think you're in the right ballpark. Give the MDX a test drive and let us know how you like it. Be sure you test the Touring model of the MDX; the tire difference between the Base and it is like night and day...
From your priorites, I think the RX300 might still fit your needs if the two adults in the rear aren't too large, and if the RX300's cargo room behind the rear seat is adequate for you. An advantage of the RX is that you'd be able to get one with minimal trouble, and it will also have the smoothest ride.
It's still worth test-driving an ML320. I suspect, but can't be sure, that it may not as smooth a ride as you may like, based on your comments on your comfort level in a Pathfinder, Explorer, and Toyota trucks.
When we test-drove a 2000 ML320, we were surprised that its ride felt jarring over mid-sized bumps; there were some definite jolts that my wife and I didn't expect. My father-in-law compared it to the ride in his big GMC pickup, though obviously the ML320's handling is much, much better in comparison. The ride quality was a major factor in our decision, as after having ridden low and punishingly in an Integra (the smooth one, according to Ken!) for six years, we couldn't see ourselves "moving up" and still getting jolted.
However, ride comfort is immensely subjective so you may find that it's no big deal (e.g. "what was he talking about, it's fine for me!"). Many people love the ride of the ML320. Please be sure that the dealership has the tires inflated to the correct pressure because that can make a huge difference in ride quality (you'd be surprised at how many dealerships don't check).
The cargo area behind the third row seat of the MDX is slightly more than behind the third row seat of the ML320's, though it's still quite small. Maybe room for five or six grocery sacks mounted side by side, but nothing more. With the ML320, you can fold one or both third row seats (though they do take up some space) or remove them entirely. With the MDX you can fold one or both into the floor. Access to the third row of the ML320 is easier than the MDX, and there is slightly more room in the former's.
The MDX has noticeably more useable cargo room behind the second row seat than the ML320, while only slightly more when the second row is folded down.
As Ken pointed out, the MB does have significantly more safety features than the MDX does, though I consider the MDX a safe vehicle.
The ML320 will certainly cost more, though maintenance scheduled by its computer is free for the warranty period.
Please do check the M-class forum for the latest information on 2002 improvements. There may be some features in that list that may significantly sway your decision.
It's funny because when we bought the '95 Integra we also test drove, among others, a '95 Civic. We thought the steering on that Civic felt heavier than the Integra. I guess based on the cars we've driven, we're just used to lighter steering feel, as long as it's precise.
Stacy: I've read your various comments, and the folks here are absolutley right, you gotta start test driving for yourself. It sounds like you've done your paper research, time for the real tests. But I will say based on your messages of likes and needs, you are a prime MDX customer. In my experience, the MDX will be less "truckier" than an ML320, the ML320 just happens to be a superior off-roader than a MDX or RX300. Plus, the MDX has all the nice "gadgets" you said you liked.
My rundown of the three vehicles, and is purely subjective, you have to judge for yourself:
ML320
Pros: Can take good abuse because it is actually built on a truck frame. The safest vehicle out of all three in terms of overall active and passive saftey systems. Good cargo space, third row seating.
Cons: Has the gadgets you like, but to get a "loaded" ML will coast you more than an equivalent MDX or RX unless unusual/year-end discounts are involved. To me, many MB interiors are "ulitarian" in some ways and I don't care for the body shape.
RX300
Pros: Best luxury ride out of the three. Has all the gadgets as the other three, plus a superior navigation system. A fully loaded RX300 can be had for the least money at the present moment.
Cons: Last in terms of cargo space, no third row seating possible. The stock tires that come with it are a joke, they contribute to the "compliant" ride because of the thin sidewalls. Spending an extra $450 on a set of Michelins or Pirellis will dramatically improve handling (but having to spend extra $$ is a negative), although some dealers will let you swap out before taking delivery.
MDX
Pros: Has good all-around set of "gadgets". Great cargo space, with third row seating. Handling/ride will be in the middle of the RX and ML, not too "luxo" and not too "trucky".
Cons: Hard to get right now. Certain saftey features that are available on the RX and ML are not available yet on the MDX.
That's an extremely quick summary on the vehicles themselves, you really should try to test drive an MDX at a dealer that hopefully has a demo. Based on your feedback I think you'll like it.
I think the '95 Civic (double wishbone suspension) was a generation or two after my '88 Integra (which was based on the ancient '84? Civic w/ the torsion bar front suspension). I'm almost sure they softened up the steering feel in that version to make it more "luxurious" :-)
And yes, your Integra was "smoother" (!!); the reviews I read of the full redesign '90 model griped that it wasn't as much fun on the track because the suspension was too soft. My wife has a friend who has a '92 and I've ridden in hers..it almost has an A4 feel, though the A4 has a smoother suspension. Ironically, mine started rusting at 6yrs and hers started at 6yrs as well. Same area (rear wheel wells). That was another reason I couldn't go w/ the MDX (though I've never seen an RL w/ rust there so maybe Acura is better). It's the little things that bug you (I'm hoping we'll hear more of Stacy's :-)
I hate to think the salesman is taking advantage of my lack of car knowledge, and pretending to be all innocent about it. Thanks for your help.
I know we need to test drive, but as you know I would probably have better luck finding Santa's sleigh than a demo MDX. We were called by one dealership and by the time we got there, it was sold. Typical story.
I think we are going to try to drive the RX today, if the little girl will allow us. :-) I'm just a little hesitant because it seems like they are EVERYWHERE. However, by the time supply catches up to demand for the MDX, they may be the same. Also, I drove a Honda Accord for 9 years, and they are everywere. I'm also concerned about the RX being smaller.
We will probably rarely using the third row seat, so we will usually have them folded down, but it would definitely be nice to have the option.
How is the resale value on the RX? I know MB has good resale and it's too early for the MDX.
I'll have to check a little more into the 2002 ML. Can the back side air bags be turned off?
If we do decide on the MDX, there are some accessories we will want to get. If we purchase them from hondacuraworld, where could we have them installed? We are not the most mechanically inclined. I think we'd have side steps done by the dealer, though.
Tony: Thanks for the summary!
Wish me luck.
If you're interested in the M-class, you may want to read the Mercedes-Benz M-class discussion topic. Please note that your dealer won't know much on the MY2002 ML since it won't be released till September or October of this year. However, there is plenty of discussion on it in the M-class topic.
Good luck!
Drew
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