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Acura MDX (pre-2007)
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Have you considered the Sequoia?
Try the thread below on acuramdx.org site for one of many discussions on buying the MDX in SF Bay Area:
http://www.acuramdx.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2853
There are additional discussions on the same topic that you may find useful. Just do a search and review the information that you find.
Contrary to raybear's message above, even though Solano Acura still sells at MSRP, they now require overpriced accessory packages thus increasing your cost to well above MSRP. See more info here:
http://www.acuramdx.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3183
Good luck.
I do agree it's better to go south to get the car sooner at MSRP, but most of the low priced dealers have waiting lists.
We bought ours there after disappointing experiences at a number of other bay area dealerships; Anita and Debbie were great and quite entertaining.
Thanks for the tip!
Thanks Marger for the link. Was tremendously helpful. Some of the horror stories (10 month waits, the bait and switch on options, etc.) are chilling. But, it has good information on reputable dealers.
In light of the posts I've been reading, my sense that a winter "rush" is on may not be accurate. It seems that the demand will not subside in the spring.
I do feel fortunate to have benefitted from overstock on the 01's, but this makes up for me paying about $800-$1000 too much on an '02 TL earlier this year from a dealership in Atlanta.
I will buy from Ferman in the future.
Jack
For those that own both MDX and Odyseey, can you offer any advice? Is Odyseey wider than MDX ? Do they real look alike (from the same parent Honda) ?
The short answer is that the Bose system on the Touring is definitely different and qualitatively better than on the Base. The Base stereo is just fine and most people who listen to it find it more than adequate but the Bose system in comparison is a definite step up and is really excellent. I debated and debated the difference of the stereo and the other items on the Touring package and decided that you do get good value for the difference in price, especially as to the stereo. If you are a nut for your tunes as I am, you will most definitely appreciate the upgraded stereo in the Touring package. If price is not an object and you can get a Touring from your dealer instead of the Base, I sure recommend it. Good luck.
Sorin
I'm interested in any recent experiences in buying an MDX in the New York Tri-State Area.
What was/is the lead time like?
Can you get one for MSRP in this area?
Good experiences with a specific dealer?
I'm looking to get one by March of 02'
Thanks in advance (BTW I'm on Long Island)
Anthony
The Odyssey if more comfortable (could be cloth vs. leather) and practical. Also the trunk is great for luggage, probably the best in its class. I drive a carpool for five kids (8 to 15)in the MDX, and there's room enough for the kids and their backpacks by folding down the 7th seat. I wouldn't try it with all seven seats up, however.
Suggestions?
I personally own an allroad and love it. It has the advantage of the twin turbo engine which has lots more power than the regular A6. It also has the adjustable suspension which would be a plus if you drive in deep snow (vs. the A6 which is fixed at a lower ride height).
That said I should also say that I really liked the MDX and in fact had one on order before changing my mind. In the end it will come down to your priorities and your impressions after thorough test drives.
Thanks
I've heard many arguments that it isn't worth it, lots of arguments that it is. I can say that I've read lots of regrets from folks who didn't get it (can't add it on later, and third-party systems don't integrate as well), whereas I've never read a regret from someone who bought it.
All of the changes really add up to a somewhat more quiet cabin. None of the improvements are drastic, but you will notice road, engine, and tire noise reductions over the 2001.
Jamie S.
MDX's go for MSRP+ in SoCal, RX's can be had a few hundred over invoice if you catch the dealer in the right mood and supplies are good, the BMW may go 12-1500 over invoice, if you include advertising.
In by business, often the suggestion by marketing that the new model is an improvement is enough to convince folks (sales staff and customers) that the change REALLY DID HELP. (even if no change was made!)
Just not willing to believe marketing folks,
Ard
My point exactly!
1.5 dB is INDISTINGUISHABLE by the human ear.
But, if the change is supposed to "reduce road noise" and a quantitative test or road noise with a sound meter shows that the difference is not detectable by humans, you have an "emperor's new clothes" issue.
An issue with the new model is noise:
Marketing directs product development to address it.
Product development says "we can make som minor changes, but it won't have a real impact"
Marketing say just do it
Marketing points to the changes (windshield, foam in A pillars) and say "see, it IS quieter"
Sales folks get in and say "wow, you are right"
The truth is born.
Ard
PS. Of course, maybe I am wrong, and the difference is really detectable in a blinded observer test and the decibel ratings were off...I suppose the proof of the pudding is in the eating, no?
to almost 20% increase in volume (18.8% to be exact). Just curious....
Let's say for arguments sake that the interior SPL (Sound Pressure Level) of the MDX at a 70 MPH cruise is 72dB (optimistic guess). If additional sound deadening measures are installed and result in a 1.5dB reduction, your net SPL would be 70.5dB. A drop of 2%.
It is a well established fact that the human ear cannot detect changes in volume of less than 3dB. Since 1.5 is half of 3, it stands to reason that the improvements made for the 2002 MDX are undetectable by the human ear.
Caveat: although the ear cannot discern a change in the amount of noise, the new materials may well change the quality or frequency of the sound, making it more neutral and/or tolerable. In many cases, this sound "quality" is what distinguishes a luxury car from an economy car, and may well make the MDX seem quieter.
However, total SPL numbers can be deceiving. Total SPL is basically a sum over a broad frequency range. If the spectrum has peaks and valleys, the sound/noise will be more offensive to the human ear than a flat spectrum. In other words, two "things" can have the same SPL, but can be perceived in vastly different ways by the human ear.
A decibel rating is defined as 10 × log(I/I0) where log is the common (base 10) logarithm and I0 is a reference sound intensity.
Increasing the decibel level by 3 then effectively increases the sound intensity by a factor of 103/30 which happens to work out to almost 2. Increasing the decibel level by 1.5 effectively increases the sound intensity by a factor of 102/10 which is about 1.68
(Conversely, decreasing the decibel level by 3 reduces the sound intensity by 1/2 while decreasing it by 1.5 reduces the sound intensity by 1/1.68 = 0.63)
Obviously, if it is a logarithmic variation, it is not linear. I'll leave it to someone more knowledgeable to determine whether the differences are audible!
tidester
Host
SUVs
I realize that this has gone off on a tangent, but I want to clarify my POV.
My knowledge of sound comes from my experience as an Army aviator who has had his hearing examined every 12 months for the past 15 years.
When I get my hearing tested, the test tones are divided into six frequency bands and transmitted in increasing 5dB increments, beginning at 5dB and increasing to as much as 50dB. Each step up in intensity is noticeable, perhaps even 2X louder (mathematically) than the previous step, but not a perceptably significant increase in intensity by human hearing standards.
In other words, the logarithmic explanation could give the impression that 70dB is a comfortable level but 75dB is deafening (twice as loud). This just isn't the case! The perceptive difference between 70dB and 75dB is subtle, at best.
Whether linear or logarithmic, it still remains that for the human ear (brain) to perceive a change in sound intensity, that change must be at least 3dB. The human ear simply cannot perceive a change of 1.5dB.
The bottom line is, until instrumented tests are performed on the 2002 MDX, no one will really know how much improved it is.
BTW, 02MDX I just read your post and I thank you for that clarification. It sounds like there may well be significant improvements for 2002.
Besides, I'll take real world experience over the theory any day and thanks for telling us about yours!
tidester
Host
SUVs
Either are nice. But now I have a question: If the sound went up 2.5 decibels from current level we would not notice?
INKY
You got the mathematical definition of dB correct, but SPL dB takes into account the effect of air as a dampener.
I wasn't aware that either of us were discussing attenuation.
tidester
Host
SUVs
The discussion was about noise reduction in MY02 MDX vs. MY01.
Noise = sound, so we have to talk in terms of SPL dB, not mathematical dB.
SPL dB take attenuation into account.
Host-tidester: you are almost right. By definition, dB is 20log, not 10log. 10log is expressed as dBm which is measured of power; e.g. light intensity, with respect to 1mW (hence the "m"). Attenuation/Gain is expressed in term of dB since the 1mW was cancelled out when compare.
Noise measurement does not take into account any thing such as air dampener, or attentuation. A drop in 1.5dB would be equivalent to 16% drop. An increase of 1.5dB would increase volume 18.8% . Whether a person can distinguish the difference depends on the reference noise level to begin with. In simple term, if the noise was too loud, 16% drop would not make different because human ear has been over-saturated anyway. If the reference noise was right at the hearing threshold, 16% drop would make the biggest difference: from hearing noise to not hearing noise. Any where between threshold to saturation, a person may or may not tell difference with 1.5dB drop.....I have heard people can tell the difference if regular speaker wires were replaced with gold plated cables (rationale: gold conducts electric better, hence better sound) ; but I don't buy that....
most truck based suvs (most domestics) are rwd based w/ 4wd capability (drives on 2 wheels unless you engage 4x4 mode). some are rwd based but have awd (you don't have to engage 4x4).
most car based suvs are what they are based on (rx300=es300=camry=fwd and is therefore available in fwd or awd). the mdx is based on the odyssey which is a fwd minivan, but it's not available as fwd, only awd. bmw's x5 is mostly its own, but loosely based off of the 5-series which is rwd, but i don't think it's available as rwd, just awd.
so in conclusion, an suv's "basic" drive is based on what it was built upon. being that most american suvs based on trucks (trailblazers, explorers, suburbans, jeeps, etc. as well as some foreign, 4runner, landcruiser, rodeo, etc) and most trucks are rwd, they are basically rwd suvs w/ 4wd or awd capability. most foreign suvs are based off of new platforms or fwd platforms, so they are basically fwd models (or rwd in case of bmw) with awd capability (mdx, rx300, highlander, etc.)
What I was basically saying is that 3dB is 2X mathematically, but you need 6dB of sound increase to *perceive* a doubling of loudness. In that respect, fedlawman is correct and tidester is wrong.
mrdeeno:
The MDX is not *full-time* AWD. That's another distinction you have to remember if you're shopping. It's mostly FWD and kicks into AWD only when it thinks it is needed (or if you press the VTM-4 button and you keep the speed under 18mph).
Decibels are defined as 10 log(I/I0) for power or intensity.
20 log(P/P0) is used for pressure.
tidester
Host
SUVs
BTW, I am an audiophile too and when I set up my home theater, I calibrate the five main speakers using a pink noise generator and a Radio Shack SPL meter. When adjusting the volume of each channel, while referncing the SPL meter, the change in volume appears (and sounds) linear. A difference of five dB on the meter, while noticeable, is not really significant to my ear. It certainly doesn't "sound" twice as loud.
I think we are all pretty much in agreement and saying the same thing...there is just a little semantics (and math) getting in the way.
I happen to be an acoustician, and figured I'd throw my hat into the ring. Yes, 3dB equates to double of whatever type of "level" you're using, but the difference between 70dB and 73dB would not necessarily be easy to discern by ear. I say not necessarily because it could depend on a whole lot of other factors.
SPL measured by a device or the ear will by definition have any attenuation/absorption/etc effects built in. If you have a noise source at location A and put an observer at location B, the sound you measure at B will have all these effects built in, since the sound waves you pick up at B have travelled some distance.
You can define SPL in various ways, but it all works out to be the same. I commonly use the following eqns:
SPL=20 log(P/Po)
SPL=10 log(P^2/Po^2)
Finally, keep in mind that SPL is frequency dependent (just the convention we use). An "overall" SPL (or OASPL) is probably more relevant to vehicle noise discussions, since road/vehicle noise spans a pretty good frequency range. When you get into OASPL, you can also use the various weighted dB scales to take human factors effects into account.
I haven't read all the posts in the acoustics discussion, but maybe I can help here. Then again, maybe it would be good to bury the subject. Either way, I'll be listening!
thanks,
Craig