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John Z. Delorean-Back In Business?
Shiftright-just saw an article of an interview
with JZD . He lloks great (still out of jail) and
is planning a new car venture! My question-given
his track record, is it likely he will attract new
investors? (I don't think the British Govt. is keen
on lending him money). Still, he was a brilliant
engineer, and had a good head for styling. Was the
demise of the DMC-12 all his fault? Or was it
basically a bad design that never could succeed?
with JZD . He lloks great (still out of jail) and
is planning a new car venture! My question-given
his track record, is it likely he will attract new
investors? (I don't think the British Govt. is keen
on lending him money). Still, he was a brilliant
engineer, and had a good head for styling. Was the
demise of the DMC-12 all his fault? Or was it
basically a bad design that never could succeed?
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Comments
So what John D had to sell was a nice looking, underpowered, overpriced badly built car. The outcome was obvious from the beginning...it was doomed.
Do you think that it's any accident that no one, EVER, has built a car of stainless steel before or since the Delorean? There are some lessons to be learned from history!
Does John D have any credibility left? I doubt it. I think the man has used up all the good will and respect he may have earned while at GM. And that, I think , is indeed his own fault.
The V-6 engine used in the Delorean was shared by Renault, Volvo and Peugeot I believe, and was quite troublesome in all those cars.
Regarding the Renault/Vovo/Peugeot V-6: it was indeed a piece of crap-poorly balanced and fragile. I believe that this engine was the source of several VOLVO recalls.
Yes, that V-6 was a very poor unit. You don't want a 1980s era V-6 Volvo, that's for sure.
Is there some problem with these for tall people? Why dont you see these more?
FWIW, the delorian has miserably failed Shifty's "strip it down to the bare bones and see if it still looks beautiful" test. Saw one at a cruise night this weekend. Wasn't really in that bad of a shape, but it looked like a tired old 20 year old car would. Kinda sad looking. At first I thought it was a mid-eighties Camaro that was beginning to come apart. Thing made a lot of noise too. Still, it was kinda cool to see the back to the future car.
Volvo would like to forget about that.
It was very pretentious to presume the gullwing design was going to save a less than laudatory automobile.
OK, it was on the back of a flatbed tow truck, but there was no mistaking it. By the way the stainless finish looked like all of them that I remember - dark and dirty. Needed a good brillo-padding in my opinion.
It didn't look that bad from that angle, high up on the truck , but I didn't hit the brakes, jump out and make an offer either.
Now nobody mention old Dodge Monacos with rich corinthian leather, please.. don't need to start seeing any of those around my house.
No the Delorean isn't all that bad looking, but most of the 80s "wedge-designs" are looking dated right now...the Lotuses of that time and most of the Italian cars.
You know, if John D had insisted on a twin-turbo engine and normal paint jobs, he might have made it. I say "might" because, in fact, no person has ever succeeded in putting his own car into production and keeping it there for any length of time since Walter Chrysler in 1924 or so. Kaiser failed (big time), as did Bricklin and all the rest...even Mclaren, Bugatti, etc. It's a tough row to hoe, trying to create your own car and compete with the big boys. Latest madman to try is Steve Saleen with a $300K+ supercar called, I believe the S7.
It takes a certain amount of monster ego to attempt to make your own car and sell it to the world these days.
Nobody can take that away from him. He should have stopped there!
Now...a stainless GTO...?
What I did hear is that "the early engines had top end problems", which implies that the "later engines" didn't, but I've never owned either. Except for the '64 Le Mans, all my Pontiacs have had 8 cylinders, the way God and Nature intended.
There's an article in the May '65(?) issue of Hot Rod, apparently based on an SAE paper, that goes into page after page of lascivious detail on the OHC6. Either some editor thought it was the Next Big Thing or Pontiac bought a lot of advertising.
As for the GTO, this was more clever marketing than engineering. All John D had to do was come up with the idea of stuffing the bigger engines in the line into the smaller bodies in the line. A shrewd move, to be sure, but not rocket science.
Well, like you say, dreams are dreams and I guess it's more admirable than sitting on the couch drinking beer. Fair enough argument right there.And hey, even GM and Ford make mistakes in the marketplace. I do wish, however, that money followed vision more often.
No smart Venture Capitalist would even think of such a thing!
This car will have more sequals than a Rocky movie!
I wish the venture luck! They are going to need it!
Isellhondas - A person named Mike Kelly, owner of
of several resorts in the Golf of Mexico and the
Caribbean and one of the "dreamers who bought the
assets of Avanti", is one of the mis-guided who is
venturing into this...
On his staff is Tom Kellogg, one of the
original design team members of the the Avanti.
He is also the designer of the 2001 Avanti.
The CEO of the Avanti Motor Corp. is a guy named
John Seaton....
SR - The Business Plan, like all business plans,
can be seen in the "Articles of Incorporation"....you'll have to contact them if
you want something like that.....
Want to drop a bundle on this one..?
Seriously, I hope they are successful. I just can't fathom anybody buying one.
No, the GTO wasn't a sophisticated design or engineering exercise, but it was a remarkably salable blend of first-rate marketing and solid engineering. Just like the Mustang, but done behind the corporate back. A properly optioned GTO, with quick-ratio manual steering, HD suspension, full gauges and maybe some real brakes, was just as satisfying as an MGB, at least to me.
But...I've been thinking...Maybe Avanti could hire John to help out. Hmmm...An Avanti with gull wing doors...Hell, there might be a supply of those V-6 engines sitting in some warehouse someplace..
A stainless Avanti ?
Heck, the people at AVANTI would have many more sales than they are (actually) going to experience. More production dilutes those fixed costs, thereby lowering averge unit cost.
If they had had the foresight to hire Isell as a consultant....
Hmmm...I could live with a 1965 GTO for about two weeks, then I'd take the MGB (mint, 1968 roadster with overdrive, detachable hardtop, CD system, alternator and electronic ignition, thank you very much). Those 60s muscle cars are pretty nasty to drive on a day to day basis. Definitely a Sunday car for show or go. The clutch pedal alone would give you left leg paralysis.
I know, I know, John D wants ONE MORE CHANCE...I don't blame him...he's a fallen star that has plunged a long, long way. It must be painful. I certainly don't know why the media picked him out as the incarnation of Greed and Evil. There were far worse men in the world. People seem to enjoy when a Big Ego gets deflated--much more than when just some average unknown sneak rips off everybody's retirement money in a stock fraud.
Seriously, they could do a whole lot worse. He was a very talented man and was certainly not evil.
And...Shifty...have you ever REALLY slammed a '65 GTO through the gears? That sound!
Chirping the tires in all four gears...knowing you couldn't stop if you had to...watching the gas guage drop.
And....getting pulled over...AGAIN !
* Sigh* Maybe I should have that martini!
Hand crafting....is it as good as machine crafting??
High effort is part of the brute charm. 17:1 manual steering with 60-series tires--you know you're steering something serious, indeed, agricultural. Letting the clutch out too quickly on a downshift and skipping into the next lane--man, that's living. Using the (real) Hurst shifter to move those big gears around--none of that rubbery crap you get nowadays. As I said in the Corvair forum, there is no art without the resistance of the medium. Modern cars are too refined to resist, hence, no art.
While it's certainly a blast to run a GTO through the gears, what really impressed me about the two I had with HD suspension was how well-balanced they were. They weren't necessarily winding back roads cars, although they gave enough feedback to be thoroughly enjoyable in that context, but on a medium fast road--say, Skyline through San Mateo County, or 84 from Woodside to San Gregorio--they could be drifted through fast corners.
Isell is right about not being able to stop. I tried to pass a car on the San Mateo Bridge--this was in the '67 with 9" drums--saw that I wouldn't make it before I hit a section that had been closed off, and leaned on the brakes. This was at about 80 mph. Instant brake fade--no brakes.
But, my '64 Impala SS - 409 was the WORST! Talk about a heavy clutch!! Only kept it for about six months. My right leg bacame much stronger than my right in that short time!
Maybe John D. watched them, too, and wanted to create something new for himself? It was a bold and brassy enterprise, fail miserably though it did. I think he picked the wrong engine and built it in the wrong country and with the wrong set of doors. A twin-turbo normal two-door coupe built in Italy might have worked.
Slick lawyers and years later the case was thrown out of court - but if this is the same guy I remember......
So, not miss-remembering, I think I can stick the 'evil' tag on him.
I knew a guy with a delorian. Paid $25000 new, slower than a $6000 camaro. He couldn't park in parkinglots, the doors would whack the car next to him. He couldn't use the drivein window at mickey d, too low, and the window didn't open the right way.
I saw a guy on speedvision who bought the prototype at an auction. He was so proud of his $10000 purchase. For $10K he coulda had three and still have moneyleft over to pay for the barge to dump them in the ocean.