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Mazda MX-5 Miata (2005 and earlier)

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  • poorrichard01poorrichard01 Member Posts: 39
    If I remember correctly (and that's geting to be a bit of an issue these days), Evolution Orange was offered only in '99 and '00, didn't sell very well, was dropped, and (posthumously) declared a limited-time offering.

    Poor Richard
  • thelthel Member Posts: 767
    First off, I got my Matrix in 04 and except for the nagging pain in my left leg (which appears to be due to the odd seating position) it's not too bad. Frankly, I never should have sold my first Miata, but I was a bit depressed and was literally not thinking properly. I would do the smart thing, and keep my Matrix, the only problem is that it literally causes pain to drive it...not good.

    As for the color...it's not a done deal by any stretch (if I can't get into the 15's for my Matrix I simply can't afford to do it) but Evo orange is definitly a love it or hate it color for most people. Many of my students love it. It has grown on me as well though I still refer to it as metallic rust half the time LOL.

    I guess my point is, I'm a big boy and I know what I'm doing. It may not be the most fiscally wise thing to do, but...
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    how can a matrix cause pain in your leg but a miata won't? the matrix has a ton more leg and headroom. I can't fathom a seating arrangement in the miata the couldn't be duplicated--or exceeded-- in the matrix.

    except sitting like 3" off the floorboard. I can't see that being good.

    don't get me wrong, if you want a miata again just do it. no leg excuses. ;)

    ~c
  • thelthel Member Posts: 767
    ***sigh*** Trust me on this one. It's all over the Matrix boards and not just from me. This car simply appears to be ill-suited to taller drivers. I'm about 6'1" or so and I never had any comfort issues in my Miata. I drove over 13 hours straight on a trip to Perdido Beach, AL in my Miata last Fall and showed no signs of fatigue.

    I can't drive in my Matrix for over an hour before my left leg begins to get sore right up by my hip in my lap. I think it has to do with the very upright seating position the Matrix has. Brochures and media refer to it as a "commanding" seating position...to me it's just plain uncomfortable.

    Upon reflection, I realize that I've always been uncomfortable in upright seats. My 1998 F150 was fine for shorter trips, but over time the back of my thighs would be aching for more support. My wife's 01 CR-V was another one that left me wanting to stretch my legs on longer trips.

    In all of the "low-riding" cars I've had, this was not an issue. I had a 90 CRX that had seats very close to the floor. While my back didn't appreciate the lack of lumbar support, my legs were just fine. Ditto for my Miata (except for the back support, it was perfect).

    I read a review of the Xterra here at Edmunds and one fo the editors complained of the low seating position vs. other SUVs that were more upright...that acutally sounds right up my alley. I need to able splay my legs out straight in front of me if necessary. I can't do that in my Matrix and still reach the steering wheel that is about 3 inches from the dash with no telescoping feature....argh.

    Now...have I covered this issue throughly enough?
  • lngtonge18lngtonge18 Member Posts: 2,228
    It was just my curiousity. I wasn't trying to badger your thought process. But I totally understand about the comfort issue in the Matrix. When I was considering tall wagons over a year ago, the main reason I chose the Suzuki Aerio SX over the Matrix was because of the horribly uncomfortable driving position in the Matrix. I'm only 5'6" and I couldn't get comfortable. The seats themselves felt comfortable but the driving position either cramped your legs or arms. Push the seat back to get your legs comfortable and you couldn't reach the steering wheel or shifter. Push it forward, and my legs were all bunched up against the dash and it was hard to operate the clutch. I really wanted the Matrix, but that issue alone sent me down to the Suzuki store. Now the Aerio had an extremely comfortable seat and a good driving position but the long stroke and stiff clutch pedal was giving me a sore ankle in heavy traffic. I got rid of the car after only 8 months and took a royal loss. Buying that car was my biggest mistake ever, although I kind of doubt I would have been able to stomach the Matrix's seating position for that long either. In short, it isn't the upright high seating position in the Matrix that causes the problem, its how they designed the shallow footwell and the relationship between the seat, pedals, and steering wheel. This is one car that is in desperate need of a telescopic steering wheel!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    thel: it *is* hard to get used to sitting up high. I find is just plain awkward in some SUVs. It just feels tippy and unsupportive to me.

    My Forester's seat is low; the CR-V I test drove was sky high, I could not get used to it.

    Any chance it would help if you raised the front of the seat, for more thigh support? I actually did that in my Miata, using spacers. Got it about 3/8" higher that way.

    Another option - go to an upholstery shop and have them modify the seats. Or buy aftermarket seats for it. Maybe even consider pedal extenders?

    To me, I'm a car enthusiast, this is my hobby, that's how I can justify spending a little extra on cars. If you aren't happy, and want to trade it in, look at it that way. Cars just lose value anyway. What about a used Miata with low miles?

    -juice
  • thelthel Member Posts: 767
    Johnathan: I noticed pretty much what you have about the Matrix. Unfortunately, I was driving my F150 at the time of purchase, so it didn't feel that high at the time. The leg fatigue issue only manifested itself after a few long trips.

    Juice: As Johnathan alluded to, I think the only good fix is a telescoping wheel. If I could extedn the seat back all the way and then bring the wheel back with me, I might be able to get my legs out straight enough to make it tolerable, but that isn't going to happen.

    I've looked for cheaper ones, but here in the middle of nowhere (relatively speaking) I've found one NA for sale. It's a 92 with 83,000 miles, red, B-package and the owner wants, get this, $6300! LOL You see what I'm up against here....
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Sheesh, fly out to DC and buy one for half that.

    Then drive it home!

    -juice
  • thelthel Member Posts: 767
    LOL! I asked the seller if the newspaper had made a typo and switched the 3 and the 6 or something. He said it was what he ws really asking, so I wished him luck. As for going to DC, I don't even want to drive to St Louis to get an NA, not that I've found any up there either. Maybe if is was a Sunburst Yellow or something...

    I'd go to Arkansas to get an evo ornage though. I've got family in Rogers, AR so I could get the car and stop by for a visit. :)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The Miata is my 2nd car, I tell ya, it's great. Complements my Subaru perfectly, think about it - rain/snow it's Subie all the way, sun shine means the top is down.

    -juice
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,326
    hit 60 today in NJ, so actually had some warmth with the top down (does get a little chilly when it's 45 and cloudy though).

    I should get a nice tan this year at least.

    Biggest problem with the car is finding a road where I can use it the way it was intended. Need to move out into the country or something.

    Actually, someone needs to make an affordable Miata alternative with a back seat. I have to keep it in the garage whenever more than one kid is in tow (or the wife also), which is quite a drag.

    mazda, take that as a hint to make a 3 convertible. S/B easy enough, since Volvo is coming out with one on this platform.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    None of the smaller convertibles have enough rear leg room, even some mid-sizers are tight. Sebring is big enough but not sporty. I doubt the Solara is much better. PT Cruiser has the room but that's FWD and it had one of the cheapest interior I've ever seen.

    I find the Mazda3's rear seat tight already, in a convertible it would be a parcel shelf.

    Maybe a Mazda6 convertible would fit the 4 of you...

    -juice
  • thelthel Member Posts: 767
    No convertible w/ a back seat will match the Miata. A 6 convertible would be $30k or more. If I REALLY wanted to tote around more than 2 people at a time, I'd look at a Mustang or a Wrangler.
  • lngtonge18lngtonge18 Member Posts: 2,228
    It's really sad how the market is so slim for a reasonably roomy yet sporty convertible below $25k. It's like they think if you want room in a convertible, you either have $40k or more to spend or want a flaccid behemoth cruiser like the Sebring. I'd love to buy a $25k roomy convertible that doesn't exceed 184" in length. The Mustang is too archaic to even consider. The Eclipse has a back seat that is flat out painful to sit in and the dinky rear window leads to huge blind spots. The Solara is too big and the new styling is a bit odd on the outside (the interior looks great though). The Sebring is too big and too rental car in its image and performance, not to mention Chrysler's soso quality.

    It seems the only recent 4 seat convertible that got it mostly right was the VW Cabrio. It was short yet extremely roomy and comfortable for 4 average sized adults. The chunky styling was sorta cute and offered a nice sized boxy trunk, as well as a fold down rear seat. The structure was pretty solid and the handling was above average. All it needed was a better engine, the 1.8t. VW messed it all up with the Beetle convertible. It's less roomy then the Cabrio thanks to its cutesy feminine styling, and it lost the fold down seat. Why can't anyone else design a convertible along the lines of the Cabrio? The PT comes very close, but I just don't know if I like its style and I have a hard time trusting a Chrysler.

    A Mazda RX8 convertible might not be such a bad idea if they can keep the back seat almost as big. I think there's a big enough market for a roomy, practical, and sporty 4 seat convertible. Someone just needs to take the initiative and design one!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The VW concept from the Geneva show looked good. But still, the similar 2 seat roadster was a lot hotter.

    That VeeDub was supposed to replace the Cabrio, and it does look more masculine.

    All that for $25k is a lot to ask, though. I think the Solara comes closest, but it would be more like $28-30k equipped.

    -juice
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Found the link:

    http://autoshow.edmunds.com/news/autoshow/articles/101372/page022- .html?tid=edmunds.e.autoshow..leftnav.23.*

    That looks pretty good. I doubt the folding hard top would make it, and if it did so would a $35k price tag.

    But a cloth top and a $25k price tag would make it interesting.

    Still, the Concept R they mention was the really cool one, and it only seats 2.

    -juice
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,326
    the VW 4 seat concept could be a winner.

    I am actually going to wander down to the dealer today to drive a Solara. Not sure if it will really fit what I am looking for (ie driving fun of some sort), but it does look roomy enough, and much nicer than a Sebring.

    Actually, Volvo might have the perfect size car coming out (although the price may be too high) with the upcoming C40 convertible, assuming they keep enough room in the back seat.

    The VW Cabriolet actually was conceptually the best choice, since it had the room at a decent price. Just couldn't see myself driving one.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    S40 is already tight for me, no way will a convertible be roomy enough for my standards.

    -juice
  • thelthel Member Posts: 767
    Jeep Wrangler. Not exactly a Miata, but still fun...just a different kind of fun!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    There's also the Amigo, Sidekick/Vitara, and even a Toyota RAV4, but those only open half way, sorta.

    -juice
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,326
    Well, the new issue of Automobile came today, and coincidentally, had a preview of the Volvo C50 and VW Concept C. Both sharp looking, but rear seat room might be a bit on the tight side.

    Wouldn't be a problem for a "toy" that only carried passengers on a limited basis (ie, occassional run for ice cream), but one of these would have to be my only car.

    How about a convert on the mazda6 platform? Ford is making everything else on it short of the next F150. Should have plenty of room.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    I didn't mean any offense! I was just very curious. I find really low seats to be a lot less comfortable, like a Miata or 3000GT, but I never experience any pain.

    ~c
  • lngtonge18lngtonge18 Member Posts: 2,228
    Great link! I'd buy that car in a heartbeat, with a softtop or folding hardtop. The looks are just right and a softtop with cloth should ring in around 23k; 25k with leather; and 30k with folding hardtop. This is what VW should have introduced to replace the Cabrio and I hope they are serious about bringing it to life. Beautiful styling and I'm sure it will have the typical stylish VW interior. I got excited just looking at the car, something I can't say about any recent 4 seat under $40k convertible.

    Stickguy: Let me know what you think of the Solara. I'm thinking about looking into this car in a year or so.
  • thelthel Member Posts: 767
    But I don't think I'll ever be able to og back to FWD...not a FWD with any power at least. It's just no fun for me, gunning a FWD monster and have to rein in the torque steer once the front wheels stop spinning and send horrible vibrations all the way through to the steering wheel. Don't get me wrong, I think FWD is fine for cars that are weak, like my wife's Civic, but put any hp under the hood and forget it. yuk!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I call it wrong wheel drive.

    -juice
  • lngtonge18lngtonge18 Member Posts: 2,228
    Actually, front wheel drive isn't all that bad when done right. Some automakers get it right and some don't. VW/Audi's front suspension has been applauded for completely getting rid of torque steer. My Hyundai Tiburon V6 has pretty strong torque steer even though it only has 170 horses and it is annoying and even a bit dangerous. My Mitsu Diamante has 205 horses and doesn't have much of an issue with torque steer. It jerks the wheel slightly to the right when floored but it doesn't continue to fight you like my Tib sometimes does.

    I will admit rwd is nice in how it doesn't affect the steering. But fwd has its pluses. In fact, I much prefer the safe traction it provides on slick roads.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    AWD gives you the best of both. It's fun and lets you drift yet safe when you want it to be. Of course there are cost, packaging, and weight issues with that setup also.

    -juice
  • thelthel Member Posts: 767
    The WRX isn't a convertible either ;)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    That's the only reason there isn't one in my driveway. ;-)

    I liked the B9SC concept but it would likely be too expensive to serve as my 3rd car/toy.

    -juice
  • theredwolftheredwolf Member Posts: 1
    New 2003 Miata has an intermittant clicking sound coming from the steering wheel. You can 'feel' it when preeing the palm of your hand against the center of the steering wheel. It happens infrequently, with the start up of the ignition and stops when turn it off. Won't always repeat when you restart, but eventually comes back.

    Nothing about the operation of the vehicle is affected.

    Dealership initailly said it was a bad solenoid; has replaced ignition; no change in the problem.

    Any thoughts?
  • poorrichard01poorrichard01 Member Posts: 39
    . . . and a pretty far-off one at that. I had a similar problem and it turned out to be the column cover -- the two-piece plastic cover that goes right in front of the steering wheel ("front" meaning toward the front of the car). There are two screws that hold the top half of the cover to the lower half, and one lone screw that holds the lower half to the steering column. That lone screw was missing and it caused a clicking/scraping sound every time I turned the wheel. There was nothing intermittent with my problem, however, and I didn't have to press on the wheel to make it appear. I humbly suggest you remove the cover and see if the sound goes away.

    I have Mazda's Workshop Manual for my 2002 and it's on page 09-17-4.

    Good hunting, Poor Richard
  • poorrichard01poorrichard01 Member Posts: 39
    At the MazdaUSA website I did an inventory search for the TMX-5 and noticed the ones in California have as an option "LEV Emissions Equipment." I did a cursory search at dealers outside the Golden State and it seems to be a California-only "option." Mazda still reports the horsepower as 178, but I'm wondering if the LEV equipment saps away a few ponies. Didn't Mazda have this problem with the RX-8s offered in California and had to offer to buy back said RX-8s from any disappointed owners? And didn't Mazda have to offer $500 rebates to Miata owners in 2001 when the improved 1.8L engine (with variable valve timing and distributorless ignition) produced only a 2-horsepower increase instead of the promised 15 horses?

    I suppose I should get off my duff and go to a dealer and see for myself.

    Poor Richard
  • lngtonge18lngtonge18 Member Posts: 2,228
    Both hp goofs were for nation wide models not just California. Whether the LEV equipment lowers the hp varies. Some cars lose up to 5hp with the option and others are unaffected. So if Mazda doesn't list a change, then I would believe them. I think they have learned their lessons from the RX8 and 01 Miata.
  • thelthel Member Posts: 767
    you have more faith in Mazda than I do. That said, I don't have any idea what the whole California LEV option thing is so I can't help you there.
  • revdrluvrevdrluv Member Posts: 417
    Why does anyone care about this? I mean sure we want a certain amount of truth in advertising, but it's not like this really changes anything. The car still accelerates and goes as fast as they say it does. What else do you need, bragging rights?
  • poorrichard01poorrichard01 Member Posts: 39
    That's why I say I should get off my duff and check out the (California) car for myself.

    As for the truth-in-advertising thing, it's like Auric Goldfinger told James Bond: "Once is happenstance; twice is coincidence; three times is enemy action." I can forgive Mazda once or twice -- but three times and there's something fishy goin' on.

    Poor Richard
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    To the contrary, if I test drove and liked a Miata enough to buy it, then Mazda threw another $500 or other incentives in my face, I'd happily take whatever they were offering.

    Shoot, I hope that happens to my 1993 Miata. Did it *really* make 116hp? :-)

    What about my 1998 Forester? I'd love it if Subaru said it only makes 160hp instead of 165hp and threw some Benjamins in my pocket!

    -juice
  • lngtonge18lngtonge18 Member Posts: 2,228
    Hear hear!! I'll raise a beer to that! I happened to buy my Tiburon 6 months after the whole hp snafu. I missed out on the extended warranty because of it. I would have gladly been lied to to get an even better warranty.

    On a sidenote, Mazda did list hp as slightly lower on California cars in the late 90s, thus why I have some trust in their numbers.
  • poorrichard01poorrichard01 Member Posts: 39
    . . . as always for the insight, info and discussion.

    Poor Richard
  • thelthel Member Posts: 767
    It's a 92 B-package with 103,000 miles, white, rota subzero rims with Toyo Proxes tires. The only problem with it is that the AC has run out of the R-12 freon and doesn't work. I'm hoping to maybe do an R-134 conversion and get it working again w/o having to replace condensers, etc.

    The seller is wanting $3,700 for it so I'm thinking I may buy it. The tires and wheels alone are worth $600+. Any thoughts?
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    how's the top?

    conversion to R-134 will run ya probably $500 if the usual suspects are needing replacement. if it's white I'd consider ripping out the AC completely; double black is miserable mid-summer but white should be a lot more tolerable as long as you're not stuck in gridlock.

    ~c
  • thelthel Member Posts: 767
    No gridlock around here unless you go to the Lake of the Ozarks on holiday weekends LOL.

    I never used the AC in my 02 much unless I was feeling like a wimp or I got caught in the rain and I needed the defroster. I've got an 04 Matrix XRS for days like that though. Maybe with an old NA in the garage, I'll like my Matrix more.
  • ryokenryoken Member Posts: 291
    What year did they start coming with R-134 from the factory?
  • lngtonge18lngtonge18 Member Posts: 2,228
    Let me know if you need a hardtop or a replacement tan softtop with glass window. I gotta get the hardtop out of my shed but haven't found the time or money to advertise it.
  • lngtonge18lngtonge18 Member Posts: 2,228
    I believe 94 was the first year for R134a.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Why convert? It's expensive and if your A/C system is in good shape and isn't leaking just refill with R12. A lot cheaper.

    of course, the a/c system might have other problems, and that's not cheap to fix. At that age compressor or expansion valve problems are not uncommon.
  • thelthel Member Posts: 767
    I've thought about that, but I thought that the R-12 freon was really expensive whereas the R-134 conversion kit, I've been told, is only about $40 or so.

    The only thing I'm truly worried about is what caused the leak. I think it may be due to not being used for a long time b/c the seller says that he only put about 6,000 miles on it in 2 years and that it was stored over the winter. So I'm hoping that maybe a seal got dried out and that caused the leak rather than a bad compressor. Hopefully, that would not be an expensive fix...
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I don't see how conversion could cost you only $40. You have labor to replace the seals, new a/c lines, evacuate the old system, add new refrigerant and test everything. And I think a new dryer and expansive valve are usually required.

    I think $500 is more like it if you want it to work properly. An R12 recharge would be more like $150.
  • thelthel Member Posts: 767
    I'd heard that the kit was about $40 including refrigerant. Labor would, of course, be extra but if I did it myself I'd just pay myself with a few beers. I found an article on Miata.net that has instructions so that + a shop manual and I think I could do it.

    As for evacuating the old system, I think I may be able to get a local shop to do it for me. Not sure how much, if anything that would cost since the old (valuable) freon can be recycled.

    If all I need is a recharge, it would be worth it if $150 is all it would take.

    How much would new seals be to replace dried out ones?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Prices really do run high in that region, then.

    I just put on a new top at PBC, that was $800 with a glass window. So definitely budget for that if it's the original top, mine is a '93 with 48k miles.

    My top looked OK, just stained, but soon after it became brittle and started cracking. Check the edges near the window for early signs of wear.

    -juice
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