Suzuki Grand Vitara vs Subaru Forester vs Hyundai Santa Fe vs Jeep Liberty vs Ford Escape vs Saturn

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Comments

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I haven't, FWIW. We did visit a Saturn dealer. They didn't have the Vue yet, so we sat in an L series wagon. It has some quirks, and I really wanted AWD, plus it had no price advantage, so we ended up getting another Scooby.

    My brother had a Chevy Vectra in Brazil, this a direct clone of the car the L series was based on. But I think the US version ended up less interesting than his sporiter, smaller car. I don't get why Saturn bragged about sharing almost no parts with the European Vectra, the Vectra is a good car! Why change it?

    I recall they even mentioned all the shared parts would fit in a small bag, but I'm sure you know the engine came from the Opel Omega, and that won't fit in that bag.

    I think all it needs is more character, it's a good basic platform to start with.

    -juice
  • big_guybig_guy Member Posts: 372
    The Vue looks like a pretty good little SUV. One of the first things I look at when considering a new vehicle is the safety systems. It looks like the Vue did pretty good in the Government and IIHS offset crash tests . . . but it didn't do quite as well in the 5 mph bumper tests. I have yet to have a 35 mph crash but I have been tapped a few times in parking lots (fortunately without significant damage). The relatively high damage numbers on the Vue in the 5 mph tests is a bit of a concern.


    http://www.highwaysafety.com/vehicle_ratings/low_speed_smsuv.htm

  • oldntired1950oldntired1950 Member Posts: 151
    First we decided it was time to replace our 6 yr old Chrysler Concorde, then we decided we wanted a small SUV. As we travel from the shore into the mountains every weekend from April to October, we decided that a 6 cyl engine was probably a necessity. We visited various dealers, and settled on test driving 3 utes. First was the Santa Fe - very nice, but with all the bells and whistles we were somewhat concerned about what would work and what wouldn't work in five or six years. And those seats were a little too firm on the back.
    Then we went to our local Saturn dealer. Having owned an SL2 bought new in '92 (my teenaged daughter had the courtesy and consideration to total that out in 96) we were familiar with Saturn and all that buying there means... Great service, no haggle prices, and a factory to dealer service team that usually insures that you are a very satisfied customer. My great disappointment was in driving the Vue. In concept, and even on the showroom floor the Vue looked good. All those safety features, the convenience features, and on and on, but the first test drive soured me on the Vue. Very loud engine that sounds as if it straining even with moderate acceleration. And that electric steering - who decided that road feel is not necessary in a vehicle of this sort. The steering reminded me of my father's 60's Pontiac - steering with one finger. Not for me.
    Then we visited the Chrysler-Jeep dealer that I purchased my last 3 vehicles from (a minivan and two sedans), and looked over the Liberty. It drives well, great steering feel, fantastic acceleration, and damn, it's so damned cute - nice interior - nice exterior, and with the chrome rail steps, fog lights, 6 spoke upgraded wheels - in Flame Red, this thing looks great. We just crossed 5K miles without a rattle or problem. We all love her.
    After all, isn't this a TribScape, Vue, Santa Fe, Suby, LIBERTY camparo board??? How 'bout us LIBERTY fans???
  • ozone1ozone1 Member Posts: 87
    I'm with you my friend, nothing wrong with our Liberty. There may have been some initial problems with earlier models, but our Liberty Limited (purchased 07/05 and born 03/02), has had no problems whatsoever. I've been looking at this board since my wife and I started looking for a new car for her, but we've had zero problems. We did look at the Freelander and the Xterra (never considered the CR-V nor the Vue), but the Freelander was too pricey with options we wanted, and the Liberty drove better than the Xterra. For the price and the features you get, plus the Jeep off road factor, I'm looking forward to driving this baby for the next 3 years.
  • bessbess Member Posts: 972
    All the above was said by a man or woman who drives an Audi.. (check the profile).. Isn't that a german vehicle?
  • big_guybig_guy Member Posts: 372
    I test drove a Liberty shortly after they hit the showroom floor. The interior was nicely laid out and I thought it was a good looking vehicle but it definitely didn't fit my needs.

    I'm 6'-7" tall and need a vehicle with a lot of head and leg room. The leg room in the Liberty was not very good. My left shin was firmly planted against the shin bolster on the left side of the dash even with the seat all the way back. The roof line seemed to dip down further into the windshield than the other vehicles I have tested or owned. This made it necessary to crane my neck down and forward to see traffic signals. The steering was very "truck-like" when compared to other vehicles in this comparison. The steering response was a lot slower than I like. It felt "ponderous" to drive.

    I am sure that the Liberty is a great little SUV but it is not for everyone. Just my $.02
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    Oldntired1950- Glad to hear you're happy with your Liberty. It does have some excellent attributes and if it best satisfies your particular needs and puts a smile on your face, then it's certainly the right vehicle for you.

    -Frank P.
  • vuefor2vuefor2 Member Posts: 490
    Some people were asking about the Vue. We have had a red AWD V6 with ABS for about 2 months. We think it's great. No problems so far with utility and car like handling make this little rig very popular with my wife and I.

    We came from a Honda Accord and compared Vue to CRV, Escape, Tribute and Santa Fe. It boiled down to V6 vs 4 cyl in a CRV and dealer treatment which Saturn easily won. No pressure and strait forward dealing won the tie with CRV.

    Seeing the crash tests make us feel good about the Vue as we are staring a family soon. Highly recommend people look at this little truck if shopping these type of vehicles.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    These aren't trucks folks, they are lifted cars :) With the exception of maybe the Liberty.

    -mike
  • vuefor2vuefor2 Member Posts: 490
    Whatever Mr. Technical. My licence plate slip says light truck on it.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Just go with one term. I hear "like a big car" "Car like handling and ride" then I hear in the same paragraph "Great Truck" and "Pick this rig up" Seems a bit oxymoronic if you ask me.

    -mike
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    Face it owners, tall wagons are what most of these vehicles are (the Liberty being an exception as Paisan pointed out). Of course the term "wagon" is only now gaining a small bit of acceptance with the buying public. Meanwhile the terms mini-SUV, cute-ute, and cross-over are more palatable alternatives. IMO, if a manufacturer chooses to classify one as a truck, it's only to cheat on the CAFE standards and bumper requirements.

    -Frank P.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    In fact a lot of mini-ute and ute buyers really need a mini-van but get utes and mini-utes instead. Just be proud of them being AWD-tall-wagons :) Kinda like boy racers, they are always upset when you make fun of their wings and stuff, instead of being proud of their slow boy-racer looking cars! :)

    -mike
  • jaserbjaserb Member Posts: 820
    my Santa Fe is just a butched out Sonata station wagon. You know what? That's exactly what we wanted! The fact is, there really aren't any decent, mid-sized low priced wagons anymore. You used to be able to get Camry, Maxima, Accord, even Diamante wagons, but they've all gone the way of the dodo. The only ones left are the Taurus wagon, which isn't real appealing, and the Legacy, though it gets pretty pricey for V6 models. Even GM doesn't have a wagon any more. If you want a true, honest-to-goodness station wagon these days, you get either a compact ala Focus, Pro5 or Impreza, or you get a super expensive Euro job from Audi, MB or Volvo. Maybe the new "Sport-tourers" like the Chrysler Pacifica will be even closer to wagons than the current "crossover SUVs". Who knows, maybe someday we'll get right back to where we started from - a full size wagon with faux wood paneling!

    -Jason
  • barresa62barresa62 Member Posts: 1,379
    lowered mini-SUV....oh yeah...I mean my WRX sportwagon, LOL! :-)

    Stephen
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    H6, or Boxer 6, not vee, please. :-)

    You can get an LL Bean wagon for $26k with freight. That may seem high, but consider that includes two moonroofs, heated leather, 6CD changer, AWD, ABS, 4 wheel disc brakes, 16" alloys, etc. Price out any competitor with all that stuff and it's a bargain.

    One cool thing about the Vue is class-exclusive side optional curtain air bags. Only the Forester comes close, with head-and-chest side air bags (though they are standard).

    I drove a Liberty early and liked it, much better than an XTerra IMO, for example. But it did feel tall, so it may be better now that DCX lowered it a tad.

    -juice
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    No, most of these vehicles aren't trucks, but how many of us need a a real truck? We just want to drive something that's practical and cool. Is that so wrong???

    ;-)

    And yes I know you Isuzu is a real truck.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Just want to keep things clear is all. But wouldn't a mini-van be even more practical? Oh wait they aren't "cool" hee hee

    -mike
  • luca1luca1 Member Posts: 29
    Okay, at the risk of starting something, I have a question regarding the styling of the Santa Fe. I was behind one today and I saw something that raised my curiosity. On the back liftgate, I noticed kind of a square around the portion where the handle was. It almost looked as if just that one section opened without having to open the entire door. Is that just a design or does it open independently. I have no idea the year, but it was a white one. From my really weak description, can anyone tell me what that is?

    wendy
  • txsantafetxsantafe Member Posts: 25
    If you are talking about the button above the license plate, that button is used to open the back window
  • vuefor2vuefor2 Member Posts: 490
    Not sure what you are refering to either? The Santa Fe is a bit of a strange looking SUV though.
  • jaserbjaserb Member Posts: 820
    A Vue owner calling the Santa Fe strange looking?!? As for luca's question, I'm not sure what you're talking about, unless you mean the area around the license plate:

    http://www.hyundaiusa.com/showroom/2002cars/santafe/photos4.html


    I'm guessing it's as large as it is so Hyundai didn't have to use a different tailgate for Euro models, but that's just a guess. It doesn't open separately. The handle on the right has a trigger style latch so you can just squeeze and pull the gate open with one motion - very nicely done. If you want to open just the glass there's a button just above the license plate for that.


    Oh, and Juice - my bad on the Legacy H6. Temporary insanity, I guess ;-) I really do know that - in fact, I pointed it out to my wife (who's sweet enough to pretend to care) when we went to the auto show. Even at 26K (is that sticker or what you can actually get it for?) that's quite a chunk of change more than any car in this comparo, except maybe a loaded Liberty.


    -Jason

  • mad0865mad0865 Member Posts: 176
    Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I do have to agree tho'. The Santa Fe to me is butt ugly. All those curves!

    -mad
  • jaserbjaserb Member Posts: 820
    It has these big, bulbous "eyes" that are supposed to remind us of the Wrangler but just look odd. I still think the old Cherokee was better looking! The Santa Fe has its famous "fish face" grill, as well as its swoopy fenders and sides. The VUE is completely slab sided, with harsh, angular lines and cladding that looks as tacked on as anything at Pontiac - sounds like a Bob Lutz nightmare! I could never get used to the proportions of the old Forester, although the new one looks a little better. The only mini-SUVs in this comparo you can't really find anything to fault styling-wise are the Ford/Mazda twins, probably because they're pretty generic looking (read: boring) to begin with - no real risks were taken with the styling.

    MY POINT (before you all start foaming at the mouth): STYLING IS SUBJECTIVE. Additionally, it can be very polarizing - it's very much a "love it or hate it" thing. I personally like the looks of the Santa Fe, especially considering the generic looking boxes that were available when it was introduced. And, yes, I like all those curves!

    Hey, if we were only concerned about looks, we'd all be driving gorgeous Italian convertibles - hey, wait a minute, I DO drive a gorgeous Italian convertible! ;-)

    -Jason
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    I think Hyundia would sell a lot more Santa Fe's if it wasn't such a strange looking vehicle. All the other vehicles in this class are pretty decent looking. Santa Fe isn't good looking. Subjective perhaps, but it's right up there in looks with Aztek IMO.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    The only problem I have with curves is that you can't load a lot of stuff inside of a curved vehicle. When I bought my Trooper I went to the SUV dealers with 2 17" monitor boxes and the Durango dealer looked at me like I was on crack when I tried to stack em in the back of the durango!

    -mike
  • jaserbjaserb Member Posts: 820
    Everybody has their own "critical measurement" - mine is a 36x24x20 Varikennel with a Weimaraner inside. If I can't fit it in without folding down the back seats, no dice. Hyundai did a pretty good job of keeping the cargo space usable. I've hauled some pretty big items in there, from a 6' tall bookcase to a full sized treadmill in a box.

    Dindak - The Santa Fe is selling just fine, thanks. 7,481 in June (best month yet), and it's now Hyundai's second best selling car behind the Elantra. They're on pace to sell over 75k Santa Fes this year. Not bad for a company known for selling $9k Accents.
    By the way, I seem to remember someone posting a site that showed the monthly sales for each car model. Does anyone remember where that was? I'd be interested to see what the current sales rankings are.

    -Jason
  • tincup47tincup47 Member Posts: 1,508
    http://www.autosite.com/editoria/asmr/svolsu.asp
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    paisan,
    The salesman probably couldn't believe that someone might want to use one of these things for something other than going back and forth to work.
  • luca1luca1 Member Posts: 29
    Thanks Jason, that was exactly what I was talking about. Thanks for the information.

    wendy
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Funny you mention that, the salesguy said "oh just pack your stuff in bags and squish them in, there is plenty of room" I said well it's hard to squish in my computer components! He was totally suprised that it wasn't being used like a minivan for trips to FLA or vacation spots with the family.

    -mike
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    They could sell double that if the Santa Fe looked better. It's priced well and seems pretty well built but the styling is pretty bad. If you like it, great.
  • vuefor2vuefor2 Member Posts: 490
    The Vue is a much better looking vehicle than the Santa Fe. Neither is "conventional" I grant you that, but the bulges and odd shape do not compare well to the clean lines of the Vue. To each their own I guess, but I know no one who likes the looks of the Santa Fe.
  • mtngalmtngal Member Posts: 1,911
    At first I thought the Liberty looked good, then hated it, and now am neutral about it. The Santa Fe isn't as bad as some of the new station wagons, such as the Matrix and the Vibe - now those I really don't like. I like the Forester the best of these, though the Escape is OK.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Jason: $26k is the street price, sticker is higher. Actually, I agree that the MSRP, for the VDC especially, is way high. But who cares? We pay real-world prices.

    Only a loaded Liberty approaches that price, but then again only the V6 Liberty matches its engine output.

    I liked the Dakar better than the Liberty in terms of styling. But they had to make it practical.

    The Vue looks a little odd, but it works in the Saturn family. That was until they restyled the S series and showed the Ion, now the Vue looks like the old Saturns and none of the new models resemble each other. Go figure!

    The Tribute is the looker in this group, IMO. The Escape missed on the details, Mazda nailed them. But one peek at those sales confirms the Tribute sold the least in this group, so what do I know?

    You guys have strange units of measure, kennels and monitor boxes? I use good old "cases of beer", which the Forester manages nicely.

    -juice
  • jaserbjaserb Member Posts: 820
    it's everything he's railed against in GM's styling - unnecessary ornamentation, no tumblehome (slab sided), VERY boxy. I have to wonder whether there will be a restyle in a couple of years (or less, ala Aztec). I agree with you that the Tribute is the best looking of the mini-utes, even if you include the Rav4 (the new one is also very good looking), Freelander (ehh - so so), and CRV (yuck). The new Mitsubishi Outlander I'm still not sure about styling wise.

    Mazda's stylists are absolutely fantastic, IMO. The Protege and Tribute are best-in-class styling wise, and the new 6 is an absolute stunner, especially as a wagon. They just have a knack for detail that makes the car look higher class than it is, inside and out. The Escape looks cheap to me, the Tribute looks much better.

    -Jason
  • jaserbjaserb Member Posts: 820
    The main problem I have with the Liberty that it's too "cute" for its intended mission. I went to Moab a month or so ago, saw TONS of Jeeps decked out for off roading - Wranglers, Grand Cherokees, and Cherokees - some of these were obviously brand new or nearly so. While the Liberty certainly has the goods to hang with the other Jeeps, I doubt it'll ever find as big a rock crawler following, due to the cutesy styling.

    Which brings me to my other point, and the last thing I'll say about Santa Fe styling. My wife loves it, which is all that really matters, since it's her car. I think the styling of the Santa Fe was really designed to appeal to women more than men. We bought our SF when they weren't very well known yet, and it seemed like women (always women!) were always approaching us asking what kind of car it was, how much it cost, etc. Just last week I was stopped in a WalMart parking lot by a lady in an older Legacy who was thinking about trading it in for a Santa Fe, and wanted to know what I thought of mine.

    So, "better looking" to some might be "blander looking" to others. For their first cut at an SUV, Hyundai did a lot of things right, and even the styling appeals to a lot of people.

    -Jason
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Isn't meant for true off-roading. It's an image vehicle that DC is selling to soccor moms and dads who want to say they have a Heep! :)

    I'm a fan of boxy looks so the Cherokee is more along my lines of looks, but then again I'm a 100% function over form type.

    -mike
  • jaserbjaserb Member Posts: 820
    While Hyundai isn't quite up there with the leaders (Mazda and Audi, IMO) they've got pretty good styling across their line. Just on looks alone, think about:
    Elantra vs. Civic vs. Focus
    Sonata vs. Accord vs. Camry
    Tiburon vs. Eclipse vs. RSX
    Santa Fe vs. CRV vs. Rav4 (OK, the RAV might win here)
    Accent vs. Echo vs (anyone know another ~10k car?)
    XG350 vs. Park Avenue vs. Avalon (Okay, they're all duffermobiles. Who cares what they look like?)

    Oh, and Juice - if you're Brazilian, shouldn't you be using cases of Ypióca? ;-)

    -Jason
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I was thinking more along the lines of diapers - plus that's what Popular Science used in some car review a while back.

    Steve
    Host
    SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    Tiburon was brutal, but seems better now. Accent and Santa Fe both strange. Rest aren't bad but they use a lot of copied styling. I don't think Hyundia has much of a design studio.

    Don't get me wrong, the quality seems to be much better than the 80's and 90's, but styling is not a strong suit for this Korean company.
  • joelisjoelis Member Posts: 315
    How's that resale value holding up on that Hyundai? I would have to guess its the same as the rest of the Hyundai's, (ie. open drain, money pouring out).

    Wife had a 97 Sonata for a 3 year lease - would never buy another hyundai for anything. Lucky it was leased, the market value after ONE year was LESS than the 3 year buyout price.
  • kinderkayakerkinderkayaker Member Posts: 1
    A month ago I purchased a 2002 Forester and want to buy a kayak carrier. I found the website subaruparts.com and the price (including shipping) is $30 less than the dealer price. Have others used this website? Thanks for your input.
  • barresa62barresa62 Member Posts: 1,379
    Yes, I've used www.subaruparts.com for several items on my WRX wagon (painted side sills, cargo mat, turbo boost gauge, mudflaps) and received all in a timely and less expensive way than my local dealer. The website is that of Tacoma Nissan/Subaru in Tacoma, WA. Hope this helps. :-)

    Stephen
  • goldencouple1goldencouple1 Member Posts: 209
    Try www.paddlers.com/4yakima/ They don't charge shipping, which is a substantial savings.
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    fans..
    As far as my opinion between the looks of the VUE an Santa FE.. VUE hands down. The styling of the Santa Fe is only what a mother could love. Give it about 5 years and noone will love it.. This odd styling is really going to hurt the Santa Fe's resale value. Noone is going to want it!
    Piason, about this "offroad ability" garbage. The stats show over 90% of 4x4 vehicles never even see as much as a gravel road. These car based utes such as the RAV4/Escape/Tribute/CRV will handle most any access road, logging road or gravel road. I know, I have taken my Escape into the MT Hood national Forest to my favorite fishing spots and its done just fine. The car based utes fit the bill for over 90% of drivers and their driving habits.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Seems like you are awfully arguementative about this. I never said there was a problem with them at all. Just commenting that they are not able to tow or off-road which is the IMAGE they are selling people. Or else people would be buying MINI-VANS which is really what most mini-ute buyers need. Rather AWD mini-vans is what they need.

    -mike
  • mmspealmmspeal Member Posts: 122
    I tend to agree with Scape2. I am a single active female who needed a vehicle with more room than my former convertible for people, cargo or whatever it was I wanted to haul. I definately didn't need AWD or towing capacity and knew that going in, however there is no way I would be caught dead driving a grocery grabber (minivan).
    The VUE offered exactly what I wanted with great mileage and the ability to tow if I someday decide I need to. There was no false IMAGE in what they were selling me.
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    I don't think anybody is under the illusion that small SUVs do anything more than carrying light loads, light off roading and light towing. Isn't that what 98% of people do with these, where is the false image??
  • mtngalmtngal Member Posts: 1,911
    The first thing I noticed was the comment about mini-van styling, so styling definitely affects their sales.

    Second, I notice that some people comment that the styling of min-SUVs tries to capture something they aren't (go anywhere). I tend to disagree with that. The true "go anywhere" vehicles don't look like mini-SUVs, they look more like trucks or Wranglers. To me the mini-SUVs look more like tall cars/station wagons.

    And that is a problem for me. I don't like cars and the last vehicle I bought was a true off-roader (and I use it that way), so I have a hard time looking at cars.
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