Suzuki Grand Vitara vs Subaru Forester vs Hyundai Santa Fe vs Jeep Liberty vs Ford Escape vs Saturn

1…6162646667…96

Comments

  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    Motor Trend has a page on the Sorento and they felt the V6 had to work too hard for such a heavy vehicle. Also, the market Kia is targeting.. the Sorento has the least powerful V6 in its class.. The interior was also subpar. They ONLY reason this vehicle will sell is because of price. When you pay someone 3 U.S. dollars an hour.. you figure the rest...
  • bessbess Member Posts: 972
    I love your quotes:
    "I favor the side of smart consumerism, and you favor the side of promoting corporate success..."

    So your implying that anyone who buys a CRV is 'smarter' (or made a smarter purchase) than someone who chooses an Escape?

    If there were a such a thing as a 'perfect' vehicle in all aspects, then perhaps you would have a point. However, the CRV is not that vehicle.

    Some may even argue that a 'smarter' choice would be a 4door sedan rather than a mini-suv such as the CRV or Escape. (see the thread 'I hate SUV's, why don't you?') They (Sedans) handle better, some have higher quality than the CRV, better MPGs, etc.. So your definition of what constitutes 'a smart purcase' is not universal.

    I have no doubt that the CRV is the best choice for your wants, needs and perceptions (you wouldn't settle for anything less than what you want). However for others it is completely valid for the best choice to be something else.

    This doesn't make you more, or less smart than anyone else. It only makes you (and everyone else) different from each other.

    btw: I am in favor of INFORMED consumerism. (I think anyone who participates or reads forums like this would also agree).
  • tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    I am in favor of INFORMED consumerism. (I think anyone who participates or reads forums like this would also agree).

    That would have gone without saying had you not mentioned it! :-)

    tidester
    Host
    SUVs; Aftermarket & Accessories
  • clever1clever1 Member Posts: 123
    bess: What's the difference between "informed" and "smart"? How about "knowledgeable" or "intelligent"? We're getting into thesaurus games here.

    I'm a little confused about how the Honda CRV fits into your last post. CRVs are nice machines, although you seem to be much more enamored of them than I was when I cross shopped them recently (as any informed consumer would). Apparently, it's your favorite pick for smart consumers -- but, don't you own an Escape?
  • tincup47tincup47 Member Posts: 1,508
    I am also on the side of smart consumerism. I am a consumer myself. I would not advise any of my friends or family to buy any product I thought was unsafe, regardless of my corporate affiliation. I also would refuse to participate in any coverup of wrong doing regardless of what my refusal would do to my job status. 15 years ago I tipped the police to a vehicle that had been involved in a hit and run accident that was in the dealer that I worked for's body shop. The vehicle had been driven by the owner's son. The loss of my job was not as important as my being able to look myself in the mirror the next day. Anyone who has a concern about a particular vehicle should find out the facts about it. If they feel uncomfortable, then by all means they should find something they are comfortable with.
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    distinguish a "smart" consumer with a "bias" consumer, wouldn't you say?
    For me the CRV was not the right choice. I wanted V6 power, some towing ability (2 water craft) along with a good looking SUV.. to be able to switch to 4WD when I wanted. I don't prefer a swing open tail gate either. Choices are nice.
  • clever1clever1 Member Posts: 123
    tincup47: I have no reason to doubt that you are an ethical individual and smart (a.k.a. "informed") consumer who happens to work within Ford corporation -- we're not talking either/or here. (I appreciate that, unlike others, you are not inclined to completely dichotomize issues in a way that makes for moralistic battles instead of intelligent discussion or debate). Likewise, as a smart consumer who is not an automotive industry employee, I would want a major player like Ford to do better in the competitive arena, not worse.

    scape2: A person without bias has no identity. I chose against the CRV because its AWD system is not as good as the Forester's, and not as flexible as other alternatives.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Motor Trend named the Chevy Caprice COTY, I'd drive it myself and form my own opinion before trusing theirs! LOL

    Honestly, how many times have you test driven a vehicle and completely disagreed with either you personal expectations or some auto editor's? Lots of times.

    -juice
  • diploiddiploid Member Posts: 2,286
    Not me. 1 out of 5 times I'd disagree, but for the most part, I tend to agree with the evaluations from reviewers.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Well, I've driven a lot of vehicles. I'm surprised by at least on thing almost half the time.

    For example, the Z3 was nothing special. I prefer my Miata. The 325i automatic feels slow. The X5 is a boat, not nearly as nice as the 5 series wagon.

    Reviewers gush over Bimmers like they were touched by God.

    So I've learned to reserver final judgement until driving the car. YMMV.

    -juice
  • anonymous02anonymous02 Member Posts: 1,538
    I was looking over in the Sorento board area, and it looks like it is getting pretty favorable comments. I have a relative who sells many different makes of cars, and he said they can't keep the Sorento in stock!
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    I know Kia isn't Hyundia but I'd be weary of long term reliability and the over all stability of Kia itself. That 10 year warranty won't be much good if Kia is gone in a few years. My buddy had a Hyundia and it was fine for 2 years but then the trouble started.

    Cheap, yes. Is there a reason, I suspect yes.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    They actually aren't that cheap. $20 to 25 grand or so. That's about average, it's just got a bigger engine than most.

    -juice
  • big_guybig_guy Member Posts: 372
    I find it intersting that these comparison boards for the mini SUV's that the Suzuki Grand Vitara and Kia Sportage are never mentioned. Granted, these are older designs, but the topic always comes up that the only "true" SUV's of these mini utes are Jeep Liberty and the Izuzu Rodeo. Both the Suzuki and Kia are ladder on frame construction with low range transfer cases. Not that I am touting these vehicles but I just find it interesting that they are typically excluded from discussions concerning Mini-Suv's.
  • diploiddiploid Member Posts: 2,286
    A lot of the time, the discussion revolves around ownership as well. The newer models are the ones that are generally being discussed.

    ateixeira- I noticed the Sorento's less than bargain-basement pricing as well. On the other hand, the redesigned Sportage should be the real messiah. Rumor is that the current Sportage will be phased out, and then return a few years later; sort of like a biblical epiphany.
  • kernickkernick Member Posts: 4,072
    I know the Subie is AWD, but I don't know about the others. I say this because if you're mainly on the road and in bad weather, that's the way to go. If you want an offroad vehicle, unless you like throwing money away, get an older truck for a few thousand, and customize it. Buying a $20K-$25K vehicle and getting it dented and scratched seems ridiculous to me.
    I own a '00 Silverado Z71 - for towing and cargo, not offroad, a '96 Impreza Outback (my winter beater) and an '01 Firebird Formula.
    I saw you folks discussing gas and mpg. I alternate between 87 and 93 octane Shell gas (also have the Chase credit card)in my Firebird, 5.7L V-8; no pinging (manual said it can run on 87); and consistently get mid-20's - this is an auto, not the 6-speed. My Impreza gets maybe 2 mpg better. I guess arodynamics, engine rpm, and the AWD kill the mileage of the 2.2L in the Impreza.
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    have actually improved in quality over the years. What makes them so inexpensive is they are dumping them here in the U.S. Besides when you pay someone $2 an hour vs $25 an hour you can sell your cars for less, right?
    Sorento has a large engine but no guts to pull the weight around. Face it, the Hyundias/Kia lines sell because they are inexpensive. A dealer by me has a Kia lot and its packed with those Rio sedans, I'm not kidding, hundreds of them! He advertises, 99 dollars down 149 a month for these...
  • diploiddiploid Member Posts: 2,286
    "Sorento has a large engine but no guts to pull the weight around."

    I wouldn't say it has no guts, but that 3.5L V-6 could crank out more ponies than it currently does. Nissan can crank out 240hp and 265 lb-ft using the same displacement in the Pathfinder (which the Sorento boldly lists as one of its competitor).
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    scape2- Your point about Korean labor being cheaper is valid but it's been a number of years since the average Korean automobile worker made $2 an hour. FYI: Your bias towards Ford wouldn't be quite so noticeable if you avoided such exaggerations.

    -Frank P.
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    You are probably right. I really think Korea is dumping cars here. I know Korea used to have MFN status which meant no duties either, not sure if that is still the case. The people who buy them are generally people that would have bought used but can afford new if they go Kia. I also see alot of students driving them.

    I know they are better but I don't trust them for the long haul. My old 91 Cavalier held together for 7-8 years and was still going strong when I sold her. I see alot of 4-5 year old Korean cars on the road with rust and that is scary.
  • anonymous02anonymous02 Member Posts: 1,538
    What is the warranty on the Sorento?

    Does it cover body/rust?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The Zooks sell in tiny numbers. Forester alone (which isn't even a very high volume model) outsells the Vitara, Grand Vitara, and XL7 combined.

    If you include Trackers that's not the case, but Chevy has about a billion dealerships. OK, slighty exxageration. ;-)

    The Sportage is quite old and isn't it being phased out anyway?

    scape: go drive a the Sorento or a Sedona. That 3.5l engine doesn't make a lot of power on paper, but it offers some very satifying torque at low rpm. It moves the Sedona just fine, actually.

    Kia's warranty is very comprehensive. I'm sure they used galvanized steel now, so looking at a decade old Kia or Hyundai isn't really a fair indication of how a new model will hold up.

    -juice
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    Its the truth my friend. Ok, I'll bump Korean labor up to $5 an hour if it make you feel better. Facts are facts, You are sending your money over seas, putting a worker that makes less money to work. How is this Ford bias?? Its the truth.. Korean unions are every bit as strong and fanatic about keeping work at home as our unions here in the U.S. Hyundia is building a new plant in Alabama, did you hear about the strikes and outrage in Korea?? My personal feelings are I try to buy North American, whether it be Honda/Toyota/Ford or soon Hyundia..
  • daveghhdaveghh Member Posts: 495
    Scape,

    If you look at the final numbers of the amount of work going into the vehicle from cradle to dealership I think there is very little difference between the Kia and a Ford. Most of the ford parts are made overseas...
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The cost of living has got to be much lower. You can't compare wages directly like that.

    How is the quality of life of a blue collar employee from Kia, compared to a Ford employee? That would be a more useful comparison.

    -juice
  • ken_from_njken_from_nj Member Posts: 105
    agree with juice - a dollar for dollar comparrison btwn american labor & korean labor is not a fair comparrison. heck - look at the west coast port labor situation here recently. here you have some of the highest compensated organized labor organization in the USA striking/not working to contract standards because they can't agree to get a new contract in place w/management due to disagreements on the implementation of technology which would speed efficiency & allow major usa ports to BEGIN to operate at the speed & efficiency levels alredy performed at foreign ports. however this is a board for subaru's & cars & probably not a place for a debate on labor issues although labor ties to production quality which is something we are all interested in as consumers.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I make about the same money as my brother in Brazil.

    He has a 5 bedroom beach front apartment, fully paid off. I have a jumbo mortgage with 27 years left on it (ouch). Oh, and no beach besides my 3 year old's sand box. :-)

    Like I said, you can't compare salaries like that.

    -juice
  • anonymous02anonymous02 Member Posts: 1,538
    Here's a great article I found that you Kia and Hyundai fans will enjoy reading!


    Visit:

    http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=5420

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Interesting that the Koreans ended up competing more with GM, and not the Japanese makes.

    I heard Bob Lutz deleted ABS as standard equipment from some models to be able to compete on price with the Koreans.

    -juice
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    Yet another American company established in 1837, the Hathaway comapany lays off 250 workers. It cannot compete with "overseas labor costs".. Todays paper, in the Business section..
    Your right though, this is not the place to debate economics...
  • anonymous02anonymous02 Member Posts: 1,538
    Too bad about the ABS, the inexpensive ABS was a sure winner for GM. Although not as sophisticated as some, it was a low cost safety improvement for many people.

    So, not much talk lately about Santa Fe, Liberty, Escape, Forester.

    Should this title go away? Should CRV, and others be added?
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    people I know are indifferent to having ABS in their car...I am not a stickler for it either. So I don't know if it is a huge selling point with GM - in fact, probably not, since they chose to delete it.

    But I was always really glad that all Subies come standard with it. Do any of the other models listed here come standard with it?

    I know CRV and RAV4 do not. Also optional on Escape/Tribute. Santa FE? Liberty?

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • xccoachlouxccoachlou Member Posts: 245
    I will *NOT* repeat, NOT buy a new car without ABS. There have been more than a few times, when drivers unaware of what constitutes a safe stopping distance, have cut me off. The ABS has saved me several times.

    I do not understand why some companies have chosen to neglect this safety feature, or others think you only need it if you want a sunroof.

    As someone else said, "Stomp on the brake and steer" - what a concept! :)
  • xccoachlouxccoachlou Member Posts: 245
    The forester did much much better than competition listed here. Some of those other vehicles crumpled like a cheap suit, or something like that.
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    All cars/trucks/SUV's have to meet minimum safety requirements. I agree some may do better than others. But to try to make the Forester out to be a tank and the others a tin can won't work. The Forester has its weaknesses also. Wagon like styling, no V6, acceleration weak, no towing ability, GVWR, interior room dimensions to name a few....
  • mad0865mad0865 Member Posts: 176
    Is an option. A lot of the hard core 4x4er's will tell you that it's not a good option. I personally have it on there because it's saved my [non-permissible content removed] a few times.
  • xccoachlouxccoachlou Member Posts: 245
    Compared to those other SUV's, yes the Forester is a tank.


    From the IIHS web site:


    http://www.iihs.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/0214.htm - Subaru Forester


    http://www.iihs.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/0105.htm - Ford Escape & Mazda Tribute


    http://www.iihs.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/0105.htm - Hyundai Santa Fe did much better than the Ford SUV's.


    http://www.iihs.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/0212.htm - Saturn Vue


    http://www.iihs.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/0127.htm - Jeep Liberty


    Ok, so only the Ford/Mazda SUV's really got banged up.


    I was thinking of the Chevy Blazer which received a POOR rating - http://www.iihs.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/96002.htm


    The Santa Fe and the Vue all have "Poor" bumpers.

  • daveghhdaveghh Member Posts: 495
    TANKS!!!


    Forester

    image


    CRV

    image


    Tissue paper!!!


    Escape

    image


  • xccoachlouxccoachlou Member Posts: 245
    If you live in an urban area, that bumper test rating is one to look at carefully.

    Sure as day, some ignoramus type moron will either

    1) Try to create a parking space where there is none.

    2) Speed into a parking lot and give your car a nice little "love tap".

    3) Send a shopping cart crashing into your car.

    4) All of the above.

    And let's not forget when the local utility suddenly puts a telephone pole where none existed for many years, dare I say since the dawn of time!

    I didn't christen it, but one of my neighbors found out his bumper didn't quite pass the <5 MPH test.

    - Lou
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    "But I was always really glad that all Subies come standard with it. Do any of the other models listed here come standard with it?

    I know CRV and RAV4 do not. Also optional on Escape/Tribute. Santa FE? Liberty?"

    It is only optional on the base models in the Escape/Tribute. All XLT's come with standard ABS. I too would not buy a vehicle without ABS. My old ZX2 had it, and anyone who has driven a small light car in the snow will know that you need all the help you can get sometimes.

    On the crash tests:
    I can't find the numbers for the new Forester, but I do know (or at least am pretty sure) that the Escape/Tribute handle slightly better and brake better than the others on the list including the CR-V. I'm guessing that the Forester handles better because it is a car.

    Active safety is a big part of the vehicle's overall safety rating too.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I'm guessing that the Forester handles better because it is a car. Your beloved Escape/Tribute is also a "car"

    -mike
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    "Your beloved Escape/Tribute is also a "car""

    None taken, but I'm well aware of how the Escape/Tribute came to be. It is built on a heavily modified 626 chassis giving it "car like" uni-body construction... We bought it because I didn't want a real truck and my wife didn't want a station wagon. I did want a station wagon because I really don't like trucks, but the Subies were immediately crossed off the list by my wife. Obviously she won this round.

    When I look at a Subaru, I think car. When I look at any of the others, I think truck. Well, I kind of think mini-van when I see the CR-V. Being a "car" is not a bad thing in my book. The "truck like" SUV's on this list are pretty good compromises though.

    I knew one of you would be offended by that.
  • anonymous02anonymous02 Member Posts: 1,538
    #3191 those pesky telephone poles by xccoachlou

    "If you live in an urban area, that bumper test rating is one to look at carefully.
    ...
    I didn't christen it, but one of my neighbors found out his bumper didn't quite pass the <5 MPH test."

    I hit a tree at about 20-25 one winter. I had a big station wagon with bald tires (hey, I was 16, and learned my "winter driving lesson" that day!). The only damage sustained was the bumper pushed in a little. That spring, I chained the bumper to a telephone pole, and pulled it back out. Try that with today's cars (mini trucks, even some big ones!).

    #3192 of 3194 ABS by baggs32

    "I too would not buy a vehicle without ABS. My old ZX2 had it, and anyone who has driven a small light car in the snow will know that you need all the help you can get sometimes."

    Sometimes it doesn't help. If I had a car, I might not mind it, as long as there is a switch or a fuse to pull if I wanted to override the ABS. I don't think I'd want it in an SUV at all.

    ABS probably would have saved me from hitting the tree in the wagon, but I never would have learned winter driving as a result.
  • tincup47tincup47 Member Posts: 1,508
    You're lucky to still be here. A crash like that can be fatal if the car does not absorb the G forces. The reason cars deform today is for just that reason, it is one of the main reasons that annual death rates have not risen to match the huge annual increases in mileage traveled.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    No towing ability? A 5 speed Forester can tow 2400 lbs, and that's just because SoA's US lawyers are very conservative. The Forester in the UK is rated to tow 1800kg, or 3960 pounds.

    So it's not that it can't tow, just that SoA is very, very conservative.

    And acceleration is not weak, it's within a second of anything else here, and quicker than the V6s in the Sante Fe, XTerra, and Grand Vitara.

    There is an ABS fuse in Subarus, but I'd never pull it.

    Note that even back in 1999 the Forester had earned a "Good" in that crash test, and even several years later only the Sante Fe matches the last generation Forester. The new one is a Best Pick.

    -juice
  • anonymous02anonymous02 Member Posts: 1,538
    Lucky? I don't know if I was even wearing a seatbelt. That wasn't really much of a crash at all. There WAS snow on the side to help buffer things, but still...

    I'd rather have the car not get damaged, thanks just the same.
  • anonymous02anonymous02 Member Posts: 1,538
    Wasn't there a magazine or show or manufacturer which used to have a "bumper basher"?

    I'd like to see them have a 30 foot by 12 inch telephone pole, and have it hang from chains, and swing it from like 5-10 feet away and see what kind of results you'd get from that test.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Consumer Reports does their own. IIHS has one, too.


    Sorry to sound like a broken record, but again the Forester came out on top:


    http://www.highwaysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/low_speed_smsuv.htm


    The funny part? #2 is the old Forester. LOL


    -juice

  • anonymous02anonymous02 Member Posts: 1,538
    I'd like to see how they compare to a 1989 Ford F150, or a 1976 Dodge Monaco.

    It kind of skews things when they are ALL pretty lame.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Most truck bumpers are lame.

    They don't have to meet car standard, in fact some trucks do not even come with a rear bumper at all!

    For instance, I don't consider the "bumperettes" on the RAV4 to be real bumpers.

    -juice
Sign In or Register to comment.

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles

Your Privacy

By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our Visitor Agreement.