Unfortunately, a lot of this boils down to the dealer. If the dealer wants to let you get the rotors covered under warranty, he can do it. If he wants to collect the higher labor rate of COD work, he can do that as well. It is a VERY fine line a dealer walks here and illustrates the fact that shopping for a reputable dealer is worth the time.
In general, if you let the pads wear down to the point that they need replaced to complain about warped rotors, you'll be out of luck. If the rotors warped before the pads wore out, you'll get them covered. At least that's how I've seen it work at the stores I've worked for.
Cliffy, what do you think about the dealer trying to sell me the $110 fuel injector cleaning? It makes me a bit nervous about trusting them with any future service problems...
I recently traded my 94 Camry and my 94 Jeep in on new vehicles. The Camry brought the same $$ as the Jeep, similar miles and condition. We paid $12000 more for the Jeep when we purchased them both new. The repairs on the Camry = one antenna replacement. The Jeep = alternator, transmission cooler, fuel pump and major air conditioning overhaul. The reason we traded the Jeep in on a Sequoia and not a Tahoe was the reliability factor. I think you're dreaming if you think you'll have no mechanical problems and if you think it will be worth more. If your saying you saved $12,000 for your Tahoe over the Sequoia you are not talking about equally equipped vehicles. While you're spending $160,000 on 5 vehicles to get the 6th one free, I'll still be driving the one I recently bought.
I honestly don't know how much you need that. I know it will not hurt, but I don't know if you really need it either. Sorry I can't give you anything more specific.
The $12k I saved was not on one vehicle - it is the combined total of the last 3 - You are correct the vehicles were not equiped the same - GM gave me more options for less money! Thank you for pointing that out.
You are also correct about resale - Sequoia is higher than Tahoe - I was comparing the Sequoia to a Surburban - my mistake. The Surburban cost less AND has a higher resale. I am getting my information from Edmunds "true cost to own" calculator - based on 5 years and 15K miles per year.
Compare a 2002 Tahoe LS to a 2002 Sequoia SR-5 both 2WD here are some of the highlights.
Purchase price Tahoe (T)- $35,404 Sequoia (S) - $37,701
Expected resale after 5 years T - $16,303 - (46.1% of purchase price) S - $16,950 (44.9% of purchase)
So the Toy cost $2,297 more to purchase - but is only worth $647 more after 5 years.
Fuel cost T - $6,115 S - $6,495
Maintenance T - $3,887 S - $4,551
Insurance cost T - $5,065 S- $5,503
Repairs T- $818 S - 711 Ouch - Tahoe cost $1.78 more per month in repair costs - So this is the great reliability advantage everyone is so excited about.
Total cost to own T - $42,709 S - $46,219
You can do the math
As for needing a new tranny at 75K only time will tell. If I do need to replace the tranny I am still more than $10,000 ahead. One thing we do know for sure - your Toy will need 3 or 4 sets of brake pads (new rotors too) before it sees 75K!!
Edmund's numbers are speculative, projected and assumptions. If the average Tahoe needs $800 of repairs in 5 years, and the Seq needs $700, I will suggest this is more fantasy than reality ! I have already spent $500 on brake pads and rotors within 2 years of ownership. I fully expect to spend more than $700 after 5 years - a dent here, a scratch there, a windshield repair, etc... See, these are equally mere projections and speculations on my part !!! Where would this end ? Will the Tahoe and Burb need equal number of repairs ? I hope you are reading the Tahoe/Burb forums for what lies ahead for your trucks.... But then yours may be the exception, only time will tell. Enjoy your trucks and your nice savings $$$ over purchasing the Toy...
The repairs are what is projected over and above warranty claims. The $800 seems reasonable to me - I think an extended warranty costs somewhere between a $1,000 - $1,200 - and they need to make some profit.
I have nothing against Toyota I have owned several of them - and always have one Toy on the short list when I am shopping for a new vehicle. It just seems that the quality gap between Toyota & GM is very small. I think Toyota is still living off the preception of better quality that it had back in the 1980's. Back then the difference was huge.
XYZ71 - I'm sure you are very proud of your purchase and believe there is a need to come over to the Sequoia board and praise yourself for making such an informed decision, however there are other discussion boards for for comparing the GM, Toyota and Ford comparables. In the meantime you might want to take a look at the last 10 years of Consumer Reports and do some OBJECTIVE analysis. Red dots are good, black dots are bad. GM = black dots, Toyota = red dots. Pick a year, any year. Now pick a vehicle, any vehicle. The difference in quality is still very real. Let's not forget Edmunds own awards for the Sequoia. Edmunds Top 10 Residual Values award Edmunds Editors Most Wanted Vehicles 2002 Edmunds Consumers Most Wanted Vehicles 2002 Also, while us Sequoia owners are talking about brakes and AC units, the GM owners are typically complaining about engine and tranny failures. I truly wish you the best on your GM purchase and I'm so happy for the money you've saved! But the objective and majority of subjective analysis show that you probably made a poor decision in the long run.
Radboy41 I figured you would respond to xyz71 with your usual common sense. I know that Toyota reliability is virtually unparalled (perhaps second to Lexus.) I can personally attest to their above average quality. Our '02 Seq. ltd. is not perfect but NO vehicle is. I researched heavily before buying my 4 runner, Lexus, and Sequoia. Consumer Reports is unbiased. Red dots are everywhere on these vehicles. After owning my 4 runner and Lexus for 8 years I see why. My company vehicles are GM trucks that do not hold up like my rigs. I'm talking about 12 years worth of experience. Yes, my vehicles may not be the cheapest to buy. But I need reliability. My wife's best friend has a '01 Suburban that has been in the shop 3 times in 14 months. The last visit took 3 weeks to figure out why it wouldn't run. She now envies our Seq. I do believe domestic quality may be up but the long term data suggest that they still aren't equal to Toyota. It seems obvious to me that even with zero percent financing and lower sticker prices people still avoid buying the BIG 3 and go to Toyota for this reason. Every car company can and does make lemons. I prefer to buy the one with the lowest percentages of this happening. As for resale I just sold my '94 4 runner for $300 over high Kelley Blue Book to a cop who wanted a dependable rig. He told me he wanted American but can't afford repairs. Go figure.
Ditto on your remarks and with raddboy41's annihilation of xyz71's "reasoning".(From a GM owner GOING BACK to Toyota) Agree with all except one thing. BIG 3 seems to be GM, Ford, and TOYOTA. Any of you Dodge boys hear footsteps???
My math looks a little different than yours. It goes something like this: Tahoe traction control, not available. Tahoe Stability control, not available. Sequoia Vehicle Skid Control, standard. Sequoia Active Trac 4 wheel drive traction control, standard.
Toyota Sequoia is Tundra Based. Chevy Tahoe is Silverado based. In the recent offset crash test the Tundra was rated at the top followed by the Dodge Ram 1500 (both receiving Good overall ratings. Next came the Silverado with a "marginal overall rating" followed by the Ford F150 with a poor overall rating.
My wife and two children are well worth the additional cost. The safety numbers are far more important to me.
I looked at the Tahoe and think it is a slick looking vehicle so if that's what you can afford I think it's what you should drive and feel happy with your decision.
Our dealer just notified us that our SR5 4X4 with all options will be built the week of 14 October, delivered end of month. We look forward to joining the ranks of Sequois owners:)
The Edmunds Maintenance Guide has TSB summaries, as does alldata.com and the nhtsa.com. If you want the full text, you can buy them from alldata or ask your service manager for a copy. NHTSA says they charge a research fee, but many people have reported that they were given a free copy. Usual disclaimers!
Steve
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Actually the Jeep was a good vehicle for us. It was nearing 100,000 miles and problems were starting to occur. What we didn't want is to have to trade this vehicle in just because it was reaching the hundred thousand mark. We don't buy every couple years and we don't lease vehicles. Price wasn't the issue for us, we wanted what we feel is a better vehicle and if you go back and actually read what I said we wanted a safer vehicle, safer and more reliable with safety being very high on the list. The Sequoia rides exceptionally well in our estimation and is very quiet. I test drove a used Sequoia one afternoon pulling our 4200 pound boat in and around town then at freeway speeds up I-90 toward Snoqualmie pass. It handled the weight exceptionally well. With the Jeep I was exhausted after a long tow. With the Sequoia I hardly knew it was there after the day. Trailer boats did a comparison with the Sequoia, Tahoe and Expedition. Sequoia outperformed them all. Your posts indicate that money was your deciding factor. Money wasn't the issue with us. We bought what we believe to be the safer and more soundly built vehicle.
Before I comment, do you have any affiliation or relation to Heatwave? (Kind of an inside joke for those of us who have been posting for a long time!)
Now on to towing- most owners manuals are full of warnings and recommendations that I'm sure are there to cover off the Legal requirements of the car business. This is not exclusive to the Sequoia or Toyota.
I tow a 5200 lb boat (may be a little more depending on gear)and tow regularly with this. The Sequoia is a dream towing. This summer we did a 3000 km. trip over all kinds of terrain and up to 9% grades going through the mountains in hot weather- all without effort or the temperature guage perceptively moving.
Norwesterner touched on the Trailer Boats comparison. Not only did it outperform the others but it beat them in nearly all categories to earn Tow Vehicle of the Year. It also had better performance towing on the steep grades. Incidentally, they were towing at 55 mph going up those grades.
The Tahoe is a fine vehicle which does some things better than the Sequoia (see my detailed comparison going back thru the archives), but you'll find many things the Sequoia does better and you will also read many advocates comments about the Sequoia's towing prowess.
Now that we've debunked your towing and performance criticisms, all you are left with is your "opinion". Maybe if you weren't so adversarial you'd be more warmly received and your opinions respected. Again, this really isn't the forum for brand comparisons....this is for Sequoia discussions! GM chest thumping and validation for buying inferior products can be found elsewhere. You might even find someone who agrees with you!
can you tell me were to find the TSB's....I just went to the Edmunds site that was hypertexted above, but it said there were no TSB's for '02. Perplexed?????? thanks in advance....Later
I just talked to dealer and they said they didnot know anything about the AC suction tube problem. They asked me about the TSB number for the problem. Do you have it? I went to Edmunds website and it says there is no TSB for 02' SEQ. Thanks.
I don't know why we (nor NHTSA) aren't showing any TSBs for the Sequoia. Alldata.com shows some 19 - when you go there, pick Toyota "Truck." Steve Host SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
Please forgive me for not personalizing each and every response.
In addition to the 45 MPH towing speed limit can you give me some examples of other things (in the owners manual) that are OK to ignore?
Is the 45 MPH tow speed limit because of the weak engine or is it the defective brakes?
If you care so much about safety why did you own the Jeep? Or the camry? Wouldn't a Landcruiser have been safer?
I will (after this anyway) try to stick more to Sequoia related things.
IMO - the worth of a person (financial or other) has nothing to do with the vehicle they drive. This is very shallow.
I know several people who are worth hundreds of millions of dollars. They drive old cars and trucks - and could care less what other people think. (the wife and kids on the other hand love MB and BMW)
Norwesterner - If you really want to show people how special you are why not get the LX470? The Sequoia as a status symbol - PLEASE. LOL
The Jeep and the Camry were before children and before there was so much information about the safety of each vehicle. One of the reasons we didn't purchase another Jeep was because of the safety issue. The Camry actually does fairly well in the crash test area. The money issue was yours not mine. If in fact if I wanted to as you say "show people how special I was" I would have purchased a Lexus. Toyota is not a money symbol so your point is self defeating. We looked at all the vehicles in this arena including the Chevrolet, Ford, Lexus and the Land Cruiser. The Lexus and Land Cruiser were too large a feel for my wife, the Sequoia was not so out of the three, Ford GM and Toyota we felt the Sequoia was right for us.
You seem fairly fixated on the 45 mph scenario, yet you have actual examples here of people that happily and safely tow above that speed. At least two of the major auto magazines have also towed above this speed. Can you not accept that people have good success towing with this vehicle?
I understand you don't own a Sequoia, yet can quote information out of the owners manual?? If you don't own a Sequoia I think it makes you ill-qualified to comment about any specifics of the Sequoia.
The Sequoia engine is not weak. Obviously to beat the top-engined Tahoe in mountain towing would back this up. Even from a specification point of view the torque difference is minimal between the two (granted, it is slightly higher in the Tahoe).
Did I mention that the Sequoia also handily won all of the braking tests- both towing and non-towing?
No one has said the Sequoia is perfect. It certainly has its flaws and based on some comments here braking reliability may be one of them. This is my second Sequoia and have never had any brake problems.
Really though, this particular forum is about the Sequoia and sharing experiences of Sequoia owners. That makes it difficult for you to contribute here with much credibility.
The TSB for the A/C Suction tube is AC001-01, dated Oct. 26, 2001 with the following details: Introduction: To improve the durability of the A/C compressor on 2001 - 2002 model year Sequoia vehicles with rear A/C, a new refrigerant suction tube is now available. If an A/C compressor is being replaced, the new suction tube should be added at that time.
Notice that this applies to all 2001 and some 2002 with DUAL zone A/C.
in Japan.... Ever been there, xyz ? You'll be amazed to know that there owing a Toyota is a status symbol even among rich Japanese folks. Wonder why there is no Lexus in Japan ? Lexus is simply T-O-Y-O-T-A ! And in Japan, Toyotas are worth their name in gold and status ! Even higher than Mercedes or BMW.
Conversely in America, due to many reasons too numerous to state here, Toyota created a "luxury" division called Lexus. Every single "Lexus" in America has its Toyota counterpart in Japan. Lexus is a symbol of luxury, comfort, reliability, etc.. here in the US, so is Toyota in Japan.
See why Toyota is being refered to as part of the Big 3 ? GM, Ford and Toyota
Clearly, arguments for-or-against the Sequoia can best be carried out on its dedicated subject in the edmund's forum. Here is where we owners and owners-to-be discuss issues common to us. XYZ, if you'd like to continue this debate, move it over to the other forum and some of us will meet you there, and hash these out till the chickens come home
is now Ford, GM & Toyota because D/C is strangling Chrysler to death. Jeep is all they have going anymore, and based on what I read on those boards, they're in trouble too.
If Toyota puts it in the owners manual(45 MPH tow limit) it must be for a reason. Your point that many things are put in the manual that don't mean anything - I just want to know what some of these things are. Please list them.
If it really is just to cover some legal angle - as many red faced Sequoia and Tundra owners say - what would happen if you are driving your Sequoia @ 60MPH down I-90 - towing a 5K trailer and some fool pulls out in front of you - you smash him. His attorney sues you and claims you did not follow the tow limits that are in your owners manual.
The lesson here is - legal risk can be shifted - but it is hard to eliminate it all together. So take your choice - did you buy a full size SUV with a whimpy 45 MPH tow limit? Or Did you take on some additional unknown legal risk.
Yes I have been to Japan - three times - but it has been about 3 years and from what I have heard Japan has changed a lot. I spent most of my time there on business but did manage to take a few days to see the sights. I recall most cars were white, maybe 60%. I only saw 1 red car and it was a Mustang. The people all dressed in black pants and white shirts with white socks and black shoes. I think they called them salary men, but maybe that was in Korea. The streets were spotless - not even a gum wrapper. I also recall commercial vehicles having lights on top of the cab that would flash if they went over the speed limit. That would never fly in the USA! I have a business associate that loves to play golf - he uses Max-fly (I think) golf balls that are made in Japan and sell over there for $10 each. So when ever I go over I bring him a couple dozen of his favorite balls. It never made any sense to me why I can buy a golf ball in the USA - that is made in Japan for about $1.00 - that sells for $10 in Japan.
The Lexus LS 470 that sells in Japan as a Toyota is not the same as the USA version. It has all kinds of 007 type features - voice activated ignition, A/C controls. You tell it to "take me home" and the screen on the mini TV pops up a map that shows you where you need to go (kind of like never lost but 10 times more advanced, and it has rear window blinds like the BMW 750IL. I think the sticker is $30K more than the USA LS 470.
Why does GM sell more Suburbans in Japan than Toyota sells Sequoias?
Northesterner - My post on lower cost was to point out that Toyota reliability advantage is a mere $100 over 5 years. But you give all that savings back in higher maintenance, insurance, fuel and depreciation. I got the impression that you some how feel like you are special because you can afford to pay the extra bucks to drive a Sequoia. If I mis read your comment (actually several comments that gave me this feeling) I am sorry.
xyz, hats off to you for livening up this forum. We haven't had this much fun since Heatwave lurked here. You are misquoting the comment about the owners' manual. My point was that most owners manuals are full of things that I believe are in there to cover off "covering their butts". If you read your own owners manuals they will be full of warnings and things that you should or shouldn't do(there are lots of them in my wife's CRV manual. My favorite is: removing the key from the ignition while driving can lock the steering wheel and cause you to lose control causing injury or death!).
You made your point but you sure are fixated on one point. Please tell me where you got the 45 mph info if you are not an owner.
If I were you I'd focus more on things like vehicles towing well below their towing limit yet have unacceptable sagging in the rear or perform poorly (as in a recent towing comparo with the Trailblazer, Durango and expolorer-it was the Durango). Have you read a Tahoe's or Expedition owners' manual? Do they have any similar warnings?
P.S. We didn't need to know all the details of your trip to Japan. We would have believed you that you've been there!
Maybe they sell more Suburbans than Sequoias because there is only the Suburban in that size versus Sequoia, Tahoe, Yukon, Denali,Expedition, Pilot etc.in the Sequoia category. Could be a factor don't you think. By the way, where did you get that sales data?
I drive a Sequoia not because it costs more but because I drove all of the competition and felt the Sequoia was superior in many ways. It would be a shame to compromise a fine vehicle or make a choice solely based on price.
Question: "Why does GM sell more Suburbans in Japan than Toyota sells Sequoias?"
Answer: Maybe bcos Toyota makes limited quantities (60K/yr) of the Sequoia relative to the demand. And can you back up the overwhelming Burb sales in Japan ? Any links ?
In any case, your rationale for comparing your beloved Tahoe to the Sequoia is mis-placed on this forum. If you need to justify your purchase, do it in the Tahoe/Burb forum. Don't throw it in our face here ? Hey, we understand you made the right decision and choice FOR YOU. Many of us are like you, we made our decision FOR US.
And as to your comments wrt Japan er Korea or whatever ...., it is laughable ! Really !
---- "I recall most cars were white, maybe 60%. I only saw 1 red car and it was a Mustang. The people all dressed in black pants and white shirts with white socks and black shoes. I think they called them salary men, but maybe that was in Korea. The streets were spotless - not even a gum wrapper." ----
3 years ago you were in that part of the world ? Unbelievable ! To everyone there own, I guess ! It is understandable if you are a little confused about if it was Korea or Japan you visited !! We are not as young as we used to anymore, lol ! You should be forgiven for the less than classy comments about the good people of Japan, seeing that you are such a kind-hearted person helping out a needy fellow with $1 golf balls !! Hmmmm..... Thanks, I guess I learned something afterall... Since I'll be in Tokyo in a couple of months, I may take along boxes of MaxFly golf balls, who knows, I may make a small fortune selling these in Tokyo
Another brake question for everyone. 2002 at 25,000 miles has the dreaded warped rotor problem. I was told that the pads were down to 25% and that the rotor warpage was normal wear and tear. I mentioned the TSB regarding the brakes but they said that was for the calipers and did not apply to me. I was told that I needed a front brake job. end of story. cost 160.00 for new pads and turned rotors. Should I go with the flow or am I being taken for a ride?
Hi. I now have 31,000 miles on my Sequoia '01 Limited that I bought in December of last year (whew). I do mostly highway, some gravel, and lots of snow, snow and snow, or rain. I never go off road, or very rarely, and only slowly for parking or something like that. I still adore the truck, having traded in an '01 Volvo Cross Country at 45,000 miles that was just too small for these jumbo children, hockey players and dogs that seem to wander into my vehicle when I am not commuting long distances to work.
I rotated the original tires frequently, and my brakes are great. The air conditioner works well, there are no rattles, no malfunctions, no problems. Changed the oil every 5,000 or less, and have big mat things in it that someone recommended here, so it still looks pretty clean inside, despite the fact that it is a glorified kitchen in the morning, even with hot cereal in the cup holders.
I feel like I need more tread so will be buying new tires. I have no idea what to buy. I like he look of the raised white letters because my Seq. is white, or is that dumb looking these days? I liked the Scorpions I had on my Volvo and I like the idea that no one has recalled Michelins. I always thought that the tires looked kind of little on it- do I have to buy those 16's again? I do not drive too fast, but never liked the idea that my tires were rated to only go 86 miles per hour (or was that my husband trying to ensure that I kept my speed down)?
Any advice on favorite tires would be appreciated. Safety is the first issue, handling second, noise is not a big issue for me. Wear is important too, as I do 40K a year. Thank you so much. It is a great vehicle, and unlike my '95 Yukon, has had absolutely no problems at 31,000 miles. Hockeymom.
Your recent post indicates that the Tahoe has less depreciation, better fuel economy, costs less to insure and has a lower maintenance cost for 5 years than the Sequoia. Can you document that?
A week ago I changed the tires on our '01 Seq SR5 also with 31K miles. I put Michelin LTX M/S, but went slightly taller than stock, to 275/70/R16. This is the same size Toyota puts on the Land Cruiser. Like you, I had always felt the stock 265's are kinda 'donuty' looking. OTOH, the 275's look much better, fills the wheel wells much more than the 265's, and so far handling has been great, I'll say even better than the stock 265 Duellers I had before. They are also warranteed for 60K miles. Not bad, I think. There's a lot of good press on the Michelin Cross Terrains. They'll probably run you close to $700 for a set including tax. From all I've heard, they are probably the best all around, on- or off-road. Tread wear rated to 520, unlike 440 for the MTX's. Traction and Temp are rated A. Check them out on tirerack.com or discounttires.com
The Michelins with the raised white sidewalls look great actually. They are not bright white like the Wranglers, but seemed to have a slight hue, kinda subdued, but blends quite well with the tire. I wanted one like that, except they don't come on the 275's. I think it would look great on a white Seq.
actually, I was at the mercy of the tire shop, so went with the 'best' I could do under the circumstance.
Long story but here is the short of it. My wife was driving, had a blown front passenger tire. Had the car towed to the nearest Discount Tire shop, and had to have the tires either fixed or replaced. Chose to have them replaced. I was looking forward to upgrading to 17's but under the circumstance, I just sucked it up and went with the MTX. My first choice were the C/T's but they had none in stock, and I had a car that has a blown front tire. So my choices were very limited.
This may be a stupid question, but does the larger tire change the calibration of your odometer? I only have 18,500 miles, but am thinking ahead about new tires. Mine came with Bridgestones and I just don't trust them.
714cut - you just made my point on 45 MPH towing with a Sequoia - your example "removing the key from the ignition while driving can lock the steering wheel and cause you to lose control causing injury or death" is in fact true, only a complete fool would do it. I am looking for examples of things in the owners manual that are not good advice. Are you saying that only a complete fool would exceed 45 MPH while towing with a Sequoia?
oac3 - Japan trip - actually the only part I was confused about was which country used the term "salary men". Maybe I need to take a class to improve my writting skills! The trips included stops in several countries - including Japan & Korea. The golf ball story was a little over the top - however - it is normal practice in Japan to present business associates with a small gift when you visit them. The Japanese golfer is hardly needy - he owns one of the largest private equipment manufacturing companies in Japan. IMO - this small gift is one of the reasons he takes my phone calls.
Suburban sales in Japan - no link - you will just have to trust me on this one. I agree with your point about supply and demand, basic economics no question about it. If there is no demand there will be no supply.
Norwesterner - Steve is correct - my "facts" come from Edmunds true cost to own tool.
In choosing MS (mud/snow) vs AT (all terrain) one might want to consider how you would use them. My off roading is mostly on beaches and at times in deep sand. For this use one should use MS as it is a less agressive tread and will make it easier for the vehicle to stay on top of the sand. Even when properly deflated, the AT tires will tend to dig in. When I traded in the original tires of my old Explorer which had agressive but none Michelin tires, and replaced them with 'the Michelin LTX MS, there was a dramatic decrease in noise and they were much smoother. If you don't off rode much, you would probably be happier with the MS tire.
Incidentally, I had my new Sequoia on the sand for the first time recently and it handles beautifully. It was not necessary to engage the low range of the 4WD. It effortlessly handled everthing that would have made the Explorer strain in 4WD low.
Ok, you win. Nobody has ever towed safely over 45 mph with a Sequoia. Including Motor Trend, Trailer Boats magazine and many forum posters here. All of us are negligent death-defying towers (we would like to be referred to as DDFT'ers from now on please). Thanks for your valuable contribution to this forum.
everything in the owners manual might be good advice, but that's like saying you shouldn't drive because you have a high statistical stance of getting in an accident. The CRV manual lists everything from being careful passing to trying not to get stuck. All good advice and probably necessary from a legal standpoint to put in a manual but it doesn't mean you can't do it. I don't dispute that with any vehicle it is safer to tow below 45 mph. I just don't believe that theory is exlusive to Sequoia.
What I want to know that you haven't answered is this: What do the other owners manuals say about towing? You obviously know this(45mph) is in the Sequoia manual somehow. But how can you use this as a point of comparison with other SUV's without knowing what legal language they use also? How do you know what their "limitations" are on towing?
The rules state that you can't drive over 65 on the highway. I, for one, can say this is a stupid rule that I routinely ignore, just as I ignore the 45 MPH thing for towing. In fact, I tow my 4200 pound boat with my Tundra at 75 fairly regularly and the sky has never fallen upon me.
I had posted this about two weeks ago on one of the Toyota topics (Sequoia, Land Cruiser or 4Runner, GX470), bur I forgot which one...when I went back to check for any responses, I could not locate my original post...must be getting old or I might have been deleted...or maybe I forgot how to read my own post...anyway, if y’all would be so kind as to answer this (for either the first or second time) I would appreciate it, and please forgive my stupidity and transgressions of brain matter...
Comparing the 2003 GX470, 4Runner, Land Cruiser and Sequoia, what are the pluses and minuses of each, or to be specific, what are the REAL differences among them???...the engines are similar (V8s), I believe they are full size SUVs, the Land Cruiser may be the worst of both worlds: the price of the Lexus but without all the “courtesies and first class customer service” that Lexus is known to provide, etc.
Can those in the know highlight the differing factors among them, the similar factors among them, which one they would buy (or avoid) and reasons why...and, again, I thank you for your feedback, humoring an incompetent poster like myself.
Comments
Higher resale value? Better look again. It's not the GM product.
Good luck with the tranny. You'll be lucky to get 75k out of that thing. Go over to the GM boards and do some reading.
In general, if you let the pads wear down to the point that they need replaced to complain about warped rotors, you'll be out of luck. If the rotors warped before the pads wore out, you'll get them covered. At least that's how I've seen it work at the stores I've worked for.
You are also correct about resale - Sequoia is higher than Tahoe - I was comparing the Sequoia to a Surburban - my mistake. The Surburban cost less AND has a higher resale. I am getting my information from Edmunds "true cost to own" calculator - based on 5 years and 15K miles per year.
Compare a 2002 Tahoe LS to a 2002 Sequoia SR-5 both 2WD here are some of the highlights.
Purchase price
Tahoe (T)- $35,404
Sequoia (S) - $37,701
Expected resale after 5 years
T - $16,303 - (46.1% of purchase price)
S - $16,950 (44.9% of purchase)
So the Toy cost $2,297 more to purchase - but is only worth $647 more after 5 years.
Fuel cost
T - $6,115
S - $6,495
Maintenance
T - $3,887
S - $4,551
Insurance cost
T - $5,065
S- $5,503
Repairs
T- $818
S - 711
Ouch - Tahoe cost $1.78 more per month in repair costs - So this is the great reliability advantage everyone is so excited about.
Total cost to own
T - $42,709
S - $46,219
You can do the math
As for needing a new tranny at 75K only time will tell. If I do need to replace the tranny I am still more than $10,000 ahead. One thing we do know for sure - your Toy will need 3 or 4 sets of brake pads (new rotors too) before it sees 75K!!
I have nothing against Toyota I have owned several of them - and always have one Toy on the short list when I am shopping for a new vehicle. It just seems that the quality gap between Toyota & GM is very small. I think Toyota is still living off the preception of better quality that it had back in the 1980's. Back then the difference was huge.
Edmunds Top 10 Residual Values award
Edmunds Editors Most Wanted Vehicles 2002
Edmunds Consumers Most Wanted Vehicles 2002
Also, while us Sequoia owners are talking about brakes and AC units, the GM owners are typically complaining about engine and tranny failures. I truly wish you the best on your GM purchase and I'm so happy for the money you've saved! But the objective and majority of subjective analysis show that you probably made a poor decision in the long run.
Agree with all except one thing. BIG 3 seems to be GM, Ford, and TOYOTA. Any of you Dodge boys hear footsteps???
Toyota Sequoia is Tundra Based. Chevy Tahoe is Silverado based. In the recent offset crash test the Tundra was rated at the top followed by the Dodge Ram 1500 (both receiving Good overall ratings. Next came the Silverado with a "marginal overall rating" followed by the Ford F150 with a poor overall rating.
My wife and two children are well worth the additional cost. The safety numbers are far more important to me.
I looked at the Tahoe and think it is a slick looking vehicle so if that's what you can afford I think it's what you should drive and feel happy with your decision.
If your car vibrates when applying the brakes you are covered.
Steve
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Now on to towing- most owners manuals are full of warnings and recommendations that I'm sure are there to cover off the Legal requirements of the car business. This is not exclusive to the Sequoia or Toyota.
I tow a 5200 lb boat (may be a little more depending on gear)and tow regularly with this. The Sequoia is a dream towing. This summer we did a 3000 km. trip over all kinds of terrain and up to 9% grades going through the mountains in hot weather- all without effort or the temperature guage perceptively moving.
Norwesterner touched on the Trailer Boats comparison. Not only did it outperform the others but it beat them in nearly all categories to earn Tow Vehicle of the Year. It also had better performance towing on the steep grades. Incidentally, they were towing at 55 mph going up those grades.
The Tahoe is a fine vehicle which does some things better than the Sequoia (see my detailed comparison going back thru the archives), but you'll find many things the Sequoia does better and you will also read many advocates comments about the Sequoia's towing prowess.
http://www.gm.com/company/gmability/safety/news_issues/releases/index.html
Don't forget to check your 15 or so TSBs.
Hmm....I only have a couple of TSB's on my 2002 Sequoia.
Steve
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In addition to the 45 MPH towing speed limit can you give me some examples of other things (in the owners manual) that are OK to ignore?
Is the 45 MPH tow speed limit because of the weak engine or is it the defective brakes?
If you care so much about safety why did you own the Jeep? Or the camry? Wouldn't a Landcruiser have been safer?
I will (after this anyway) try to stick more to Sequoia related things.
IMO - the worth of a person (financial or other) has nothing to do with the vehicle they drive. This is very shallow.
I know several people who are worth hundreds of millions of dollars. They drive old cars and trucks - and could care less what other people think. (the wife and kids on the other hand love MB and BMW)
Norwesterner - If you really want to show people how special you are why not get the LX470? The Sequoia as a status symbol - PLEASE. LOL
The money issue was yours not mine. If in fact if I wanted to as you say "show people how special I was" I would have purchased a Lexus. Toyota is not a money symbol so your point is self defeating. We looked at all the vehicles in this arena including the Chevrolet, Ford, Lexus and the Land Cruiser. The Lexus and Land Cruiser were too large a feel for my wife, the Sequoia was not so out of the three, Ford GM and Toyota we felt the Sequoia was right for us.
I understand you don't own a Sequoia, yet can quote information out of the owners manual?? If you don't own a Sequoia I think it makes you ill-qualified to comment about any specifics of the Sequoia.
The Sequoia engine is not weak. Obviously to beat the top-engined Tahoe in mountain towing would back this up. Even from a specification point of view the torque difference is minimal between the two (granted, it is slightly higher in the Tahoe).
Did I mention that the Sequoia also handily won all of the braking tests- both towing and non-towing?
No one has said the Sequoia is perfect. It certainly has its flaws and based on some comments here braking reliability may be one of them. This is my second Sequoia and have never had any brake problems.
Really though, this particular forum is about the Sequoia and sharing experiences of Sequoia owners. That makes it difficult for you to contribute here with much credibility.
Introduction: To improve the durability of the A/C compressor on 2001 - 2002 model year Sequoia vehicles with rear A/C, a new refrigerant suction tube is now available. If an A/C compressor is being replaced, the new suction tube should be added at that time.
Notice that this applies to all 2001 and some 2002 with DUAL zone A/C.
Conversely in America, due to many reasons too numerous to state here, Toyota created a "luxury" division called Lexus. Every single "Lexus" in America has its Toyota counterpart in Japan. Lexus is a symbol of luxury, comfort, reliability, etc.. here in the US, so is Toyota in Japan.
See why Toyota is being refered to as part of the Big 3 ? GM, Ford and Toyota
Clearly, arguments for-or-against the Sequoia can best be carried out on its dedicated subject in the edmund's forum. Here is where we owners and owners-to-be discuss issues common to us. XYZ, if you'd like to continue this debate, move it over to the other forum and some of us will meet you there, and hash these out till the chickens come home
If it really is just to cover some legal angle - as many red faced Sequoia and Tundra owners say - what would happen if you are driving your Sequoia @ 60MPH down I-90 - towing a 5K trailer and some fool pulls out in front of you - you smash him. His attorney sues you and claims you did not follow the tow limits that are in your owners manual.
The lesson here is - legal risk can be shifted - but it is hard to eliminate it all together. So take your choice - did you buy a full size SUV with a whimpy 45 MPH tow limit? Or Did you take on some additional unknown legal risk.
Yes I have been to Japan - three times - but it has been about 3 years and from what I have heard
Japan has changed a lot. I spent most of my time there on business but did manage to take a few
days to see the sights. I recall most cars were white, maybe 60%. I only saw 1 red car and it was
a Mustang. The people all dressed in black pants and white shirts with white socks and black
shoes. I think they called them salary men, but maybe that was in Korea. The streets were spotless
- not even a gum wrapper. I also recall commercial vehicles having lights on top of the cab that would flash if they went over the speed limit. That would never fly in the USA! I have a business associate that loves to play golf - he uses Max-fly (I think) golf balls that are made in Japan and sell over there for $10 each. So when ever I go over I bring him a couple dozen of his favorite balls. It never made any sense to me why I can buy a golf ball in the USA - that is made in Japan for about $1.00 - that sells for $10 in Japan.
The Lexus LS 470 that sells in Japan as a Toyota is not the same as the USA version. It has all
kinds of 007 type features - voice activated ignition, A/C controls. You tell it to "take me home" and the screen on the mini TV pops up a map that shows you where you need to go (kind of like
never lost but 10 times more advanced, and it has rear window blinds like the BMW 750IL. I
think the sticker is $30K more than the USA LS 470.
Why does GM sell more Suburbans in Japan than Toyota sells Sequoias?
Northesterner - My post on lower cost was to point out that Toyota reliability advantage is a
mere $100 over 5 years. But you give all that savings back in higher maintenance, insurance, fuel and depreciation. I got the impression that you some how feel like you are special because you can afford to pay the extra bucks to drive a Sequoia. If I mis read your comment
(actually several comments that gave me this feeling) I am sorry.
Whats next -Larry Curly & Moe- personal attacks?
You are misquoting the comment about the owners' manual. My point was that most owners manuals are full of things that I believe are in there to cover off "covering their butts". If you read your own owners manuals they will be full of warnings and things that you should or shouldn't do(there are lots of them in my wife's CRV manual. My favorite is: removing the key from the ignition while driving can lock the steering wheel and cause you to lose control causing injury or death!).
You made your point but you sure are fixated on one point. Please tell me where you got the 45 mph info if you are not an owner.
If I were you I'd focus more on things like vehicles towing well below their towing limit yet have unacceptable sagging in the rear or perform poorly (as in a recent towing comparo with the Trailblazer, Durango and expolorer-it was the Durango).
Have you read a Tahoe's or Expedition owners' manual? Do they have any similar warnings?
P.S. We didn't need to know all the details of your trip to Japan. We would have believed you that you've been there!
Maybe they sell more Suburbans than Sequoias because there is only the Suburban in that size versus Sequoia, Tahoe, Yukon, Denali,Expedition, Pilot etc.in the Sequoia category. Could be a factor don't you think. By the way, where did you get that sales data?
I drive a Sequoia not because it costs more but because I drove all of the competition and felt the Sequoia was superior in many ways. It would be a shame to compromise a fine vehicle or make a choice solely based on price.
Answer: Maybe bcos Toyota makes limited quantities (60K/yr) of the Sequoia relative to the demand. And can you back up the overwhelming Burb sales in Japan ? Any links ?
In any case, your rationale for comparing your beloved Tahoe to the Sequoia is mis-placed on this forum. If you need to justify your purchase, do it in the Tahoe/Burb forum. Don't throw it in our face here ? Hey, we understand you made the right decision and choice FOR YOU. Many of us are like you, we made our decision FOR US.
And as to your comments wrt Japan er Korea or whatever ...., it is laughable ! Really !
----
"I recall most cars were white, maybe 60%. I only saw 1 red car and it was a Mustang. The people all dressed in black pants and white shirts with white socks and black shoes. I think they called them salary men, but maybe that was in Korea. The streets were spotless - not even a gum wrapper."
----
3 years ago you were in that part of the world ? Unbelievable ! To everyone there own, I guess ! It is understandable if you are a little confused about if it was Korea or Japan you visited !! We are not as young as we used to anymore, lol ! You should be forgiven for the less than classy comments about the good people of Japan, seeing that you are such a kind-hearted person helping out a needy fellow with $1 golf balls !! Hmmmm..... Thanks, I guess I learned something afterall... Since I'll be in Tokyo in a couple of months, I may take along boxes of MaxFly golf balls, who knows, I may make a small fortune selling these in Tokyo
I rotated the original tires frequently, and my brakes are great. The air conditioner works well, there are no rattles, no malfunctions, no problems. Changed the oil every 5,000 or less, and have big mat things in it that someone recommended here, so it still looks pretty clean inside, despite the fact that it is a glorified kitchen in the morning, even with hot cereal in the cup holders.
I feel like I need more tread so will be buying new tires. I have no idea what to buy. I like he look of the raised white letters because my Seq. is white, or is that dumb looking these days? I liked the Scorpions I had on my Volvo and I like the idea that no one has recalled Michelins. I always thought that the tires looked kind of little on it- do I have to buy those 16's again? I do not drive too fast, but never liked the idea that my tires were rated to only go 86 miles per hour (or was that my husband trying to ensure that I kept my speed down)?
Any advice on favorite tires would be appreciated. Safety is the first issue, handling second, noise is not a big issue for me. Wear is important too, as I do 40K a year. Thank you so much. It is a great vehicle, and unlike my '95 Yukon, has had absolutely no problems at 31,000 miles. Hockeymom.
Steve
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A week ago I changed the tires on our '01 Seq SR5 also with 31K miles. I put Michelin LTX M/S, but went slightly taller than stock, to 275/70/R16. This is the same size Toyota puts on the Land Cruiser. Like you, I had always felt the stock 265's are kinda 'donuty' looking. OTOH, the 275's look much better, fills the wheel wells much more than the 265's, and so far handling has been great, I'll say even better than the stock 265 Duellers I had before. They are also warranteed for 60K miles. Not bad, I think. There's a lot of good press on the Michelin Cross Terrains. They'll probably run you close to $700 for a set including tax. From all I've heard, they are probably the best all around, on- or off-road. Tread wear rated to 520, unlike 440 for the MTX's. Traction and Temp are rated A. Check them out on tirerack.com or discounttires.com
The Michelins with the raised white sidewalls look great actually. They are not bright white like the Wranglers, but seemed to have a slight hue, kinda subdued, but blends quite well with the tire. I wanted one like that, except they don't come on the 275's. I think it would look great on a white Seq.
Long story but here is the short of it. My wife was driving, had a blown front passenger tire. Had the car towed to the nearest Discount Tire shop, and had to have the tires either fixed or replaced. Chose to have them replaced. I was looking forward to upgrading to 17's but under the circumstance, I just sucked it up and went with the MTX. My first choice were the C/T's but they had none in stock, and I had a car that has a blown front tire. So my choices were very limited.
Hence the MTX's
Try this-just type in current and then proposed tire sizes. It calculates the impact on your speedometer.
the key from the ignition while driving can lock the steering wheel and cause you to lose control
causing injury or death" is in fact true, only a complete fool would do it. I am looking for
examples of things in the owners manual that are not good advice. Are you saying that only a
complete fool would exceed 45 MPH while towing with a Sequoia?
oac3 - Japan trip - actually the only part I was confused about was which country used the term
"salary men". Maybe I need to take a class to improve my writting skills! The trips included stops
in several countries - including Japan & Korea. The golf ball story was a little over the top -
however - it is normal practice in Japan to present business associates with a small gift when you
visit them. The Japanese golfer is hardly needy - he owns one of the largest private equipment
manufacturing companies in Japan. IMO - this small gift is one of the reasons he takes my phone
calls.
Suburban sales in Japan - no link - you will just have to trust me on this one. I agree with your
point about supply and demand, basic economics no question about it. If there is no demand there
will be no supply.
Norwesterner - Steve is correct - my "facts" come from Edmunds true cost to own tool.
Incidentally, I had my new Sequoia on the sand for the first time recently and it handles beautifully. It was not necessary to engage the low range of the 4WD. It effortlessly handled everthing that would have made the Explorer strain in 4WD low.
(we would like to be referred to as DDFT'ers from now on please). Thanks for your valuable contribution to this forum.
Larry, Curly or Moe (not sure which)
What I want to know that you haven't answered is this: What do the other owners manuals say about towing? You obviously know this(45mph) is in the Sequoia manual somehow. But how can you use this as a point of comparison with other SUV's without knowing what legal language they use also? How do you know what their "limitations" are on towing?
4Runner, GX470), bur I forgot which one...when I went back to check for any responses, I could
not locate my original post...must be getting old or I might have been deleted...or maybe I forgot
how to read my own post...anyway, if y’all would be so kind as to answer this (for either the first
or second time) I would appreciate it, and please forgive my stupidity and transgressions of brain
matter...
Comparing the 2003 GX470, 4Runner, Land Cruiser and Sequoia, what are the pluses and
minuses of each, or to be specific, what are the REAL differences among them???...the engines
are similar (V8s), I believe they are full size SUVs, the Land Cruiser may be the worst of both
worlds: the price of the Lexus but without all the “courtesies and first class customer service”
that Lexus is known to provide, etc.
Can those in the know highlight the differing factors among them, the similar factors among
them, which one they would buy (or avoid) and reasons why...and, again, I thank you for your
feedback, humoring an incompetent poster like myself.