I'm not arguing with you, but if that is truly the case, Toyota is making a big mistake. With the new Nissan coming out and all the features available on the Expedition, Toyota is going to have a hard time selling Sequoias without either slashing prices or making changes.
I am waiting to make a purchase until I know what is going on with the Sequoia. If they add Nav, I'll buy an '04, if not there's no way I'll buy it.
SO the Navigator, Expedition and Denali XL all have upscale features when compared to the Sequoia, eh ? Well.... if someone will not buy a TRUCK because it doesn't have Navigation, maybe the priorities are a little misplaced ? Trucks have changed over the years, but they are still trucks, aren't they ? Many features *missing* in a car or truck these days can be found in the aftermarkets. In fact, factory installs may not necessarily be the best since these auto manufacturers are always skimping on such niceties, since they are not must haves in a truck. Garmin makes many excellent Navigation that can be *installed* in your car, or moved from car-to-car if necessary. Navigation in a truck is IMHO not a requisite must-have feature, but a nice one if available. Personally, I'd rather have Toyota upgrade the armrest on the front seats, upgrade the brake system, the ultra sensitive VSC, upgrade the tire/wheel combo so that they fill the wheel wells better than the donuty-looking ones, provide diversity (in glass) antenna for the radio, etc... These features are far more important to the quality, safety and driveability of the product than appliances such as Nav, imo.
I'm not saying that the Sequoia isn't a superior product. I would probably never by an American car. The fact of the matter though is that if you look at the 4Runner, Land Cruiser, GX 470 and LX 470, the Sequoia is outdated. Correct me if I am wrong, but these cars all run the same engine, have Navs and 5 speed transmissions. It's not a matter of if Toyota is going to make these changes on the Sequoia, but when. I just don't want to buy the last one before Toyota does a much needed update.
"Personally, I'd rather have Toyota upgrade the armrest on the front seats.."
I say, AMEN!!!!! Toyota/Lexus: PLEASE DUMP the skimpy little armrests! I will not buy a vehicle for myself that has them. My wife's RX300 armrest's are the only problem on an otherwise splendid vehicle. Whenever I get in and out of that SUV my elbow slips and slides off of that thing... and while driving I use the PASSENGER armrest because the driver's one is so small and so close to the seat! I would love to get the Sequoia.. but those armrests... yuck!
rugeti:
I agree with you that navigation systems, while not a necessity, should be an option for sequoia owners because Toyota/lexus currently produces a FANTASTIC Nav system! I thought I would never need/want such an expensive option - 'till I became hooked on 'em!
I totally agree. About the only good thing that came out of our buying a Mercedes ML430 (first and last Mercedes we will ever own) was that I now realize how useful navigation can be. I was a HUGE skeptic before and the only reason we have it is because it came with other options that we wanted at the time. It's been great and we use it all the time.
I've heard great things about Toyota's version and really like the thought of it being integrated into the rest of the car's electronics.
My 1999 LS400 has Navigation, and it is excellent ! For a 60K car, it is a must, imo. Indeed, I am also hooked to mine and it has been very handy in many situations.
My thoughts on Toyota not offering a Nav on the Seq may be related to a rumor that Toyota will be phasing out the current LX series to be replaced with a Seq-based f/s luxury truck, afterall, the Seq is a bigger and longer truck than the LC or LX. This new offering on the Lexus side will have it all - everything - camera, laser-guided CC, air suspension, DVD-based Nav, etc... the works. Price point ? Maybe 70K.
We really need to make a purchase soon. The LX is the only truck that has all the features we want, except for the price. We love the Land Cruiser, but are having a hard time justifying the additional $10K over the Sequoia. The GX 470 is too small, and the Sequoia - well I guess I already stated my case.
I'm on pins and needles waiting for news on the '04 Sequoia and will make my decision then.
I think most people could care less about these gadgets. I was one of these people. If you think about it logically, you could get an aftermarket GPS for much less that is transferable between vehicles.
I never had GPS until we purchased my wife's RX300. At first I hated the thing. I thought it was too complicated, too innaccurate, and a waste of money. BUT.. the more I used it the more I started to like its features. While driving for example, it shows you the streets that are coming up. If you need to make a turn or get off an expressway ramp this helps you get in the correct lane with plenty of time. Also, finding addresses in many of the neighborhoods in my area can be complicated because they use street names instead of numbers -- the nav is very helpful there too. Also, let's say you want to go out to dinner with your spouse and are feeling adventurous -- just ask the navigation system to find an "Italian restaurant" or a "French restaurant" and it will guide you to one. The newer voice-activated systems are great little gadgets to use.
Granted, a hand held GPS can probably do all of this but having one installed from the factory gives the vehicle a much cleaner, less cluttered look. Also, real estate agents, consultants, sales people, and other people whose profession requires alot of traveling will swear by the things!
Bottom line, you could get a road map for $1 and accomplish the same things, and yes handheld GPS systems do similar things more cheaply. If money were tight on a car purchase I would definately get other options instead of GPS -- but if the manufacturer provides one as an option, and I want to splurge a little, I'd definately look into getting it.
I find it to be extremely convenient, especially in a car that you are going to be taking on road trips. It's like having a combination phone book and Thomas guide for anywhere you want to go. We don't even bother getting directions anymore. We just punch in the address of where we are going, or look it up on-screen and go. When you get the factory system, you can turn up your radio and ignore it. It will turn down the radio and give you voice instructions in advance of any turns or new freeways that you need to transition to.
My wife and I even used it house shopping. We pulled a half-dozen listings in several cities and programmed them all into the Nav system. It calculated the shortest route to hit all of them and return home. We just got in the car and it took us from one to the other and then back home again. It is also surprisingly accurate and reliable. At this point we are so used to it, we can hardly do without it.
I concur with gteach and rugeti on all of the points they raise. These are excellent reasons to own a Navigation, especially one from Toy/Lex which are so user-friendly. I can get information on hospitals, amusement parks, libraries, post office, restaurants, movie theaters, gas stations, etc... simply by pressing buttons on the touch screen. If you miss an exit, it will re-calculate a new route for you, and voila you are back on track !!! Invaluable asset for some of us, at least...
Even the small Matrix XRS (MSRP <$20K) has a DVD-based Navigation as an option. Go figure !!
Recently, a friend of ours and his family came to town for a 1-week vacation (came in from Columbus, IN). Since I was going out of town to Japan, I gave them the use of my LS with the Nav. It was invaluable asset to them. They could go anywhere without having to look up driving directions. So Cal with its network of 5+-lane freeways and ramps can be a pain if you don't have a clue where you are going. At the end of the week, my friend swore his next car will have Navigation. His current car is a 2000 E320, w/out Nav.
So, YES, Navigation, especially with voice activation can be an excellent help to many who are challenged with reading road maps, etc.
rugeti:
From your post above, I now have a better understanding and appreciation of your need for a Nav. Thx
Since this forum is so strict my post got deleted. So I will simply say that someone in the industry who has a good track record on these matters stated that the 2004 will be a carry over model. There will be no significant changes until 2005. I agree that not offering nav in a family "adventure" vehicle is ridiculous. They have it in the Primus however!
Many of these have been mentioned before, but thought I'd throw them out there for discussion.
1. 5 sunglass holders!!! Does anybody know the logic behind that one? I'm assuming the largest door is where the DVD screen would go. Please tell me there are some replacement doors that I can swap out for something other than glasses.
2. Cheap armrests. I can't decide if I should use the armrests or the center console. I'm afraid I'll scratch the cheap plastic if I use the console too much. (Cool console design, though).
3. Radio (JBL 10 speaker with single CD) is set too far into the dash, making it quite a reach to use the tuner and other buttons. Reception is not that great and the bass is too low. Doesn't compare to the Bose system in my 95 Maxima.
4. The trip computer, like in most cars, is not very accurate. I was looking for an SR5 without the convenience package, because I knew this was a useless option. The temperature is off by as much as 5 degrees, and manually estimating your mileage is the only accurate way.
Pretty minor stuff when you think about it. I'm very happy with this vehicle and have no regrets choosing it over the Expedition. (This list would have been much longer).
I personally love my Sequoia and have no big use for a Nav system but can see where it could be useful (like this AM when some idiot cut off a Semi and lost and the highway was shut down for 2 hours). Other options (although not integrated into the electronics) Alpine, Kenwood, Clarion all make aftermarket radios (headunits) with 7" flip up screens for dvd based Navigation (and movies). My friend made a bracket and mounts his Dell Laptop with satellite link and can do many things. The local Police Dept has laptops with Nav, GPS, DMV link etc. For me the Sequoia had more room than the LC and I could buy a bunch of new laptops for the extra cash. Just my $.02 but I would buy the vehicle that best fits your needs and not get hung up on one option (but damn HID would have been great in the Sequoia! I swore my next car would have them and soon enough it just might)Looks like a set of BMW bi xenons would fit real nice where the factory fog light are. Also low enough so they won't "blind" oncoming traffic when aimed right.
Do you look at the screen while driving? Do you touch the screen while driving? If so, seems more dangerous than using a cell phone.
Don't you take the same roads every day? I can see for a few folks who have to travel to new areas frequently, Nav would be useful... but the rest who rarely leave town or have the same commute each day I just don't see the justification. And what good is the Nav if you like to fly off for a vacation?
I guess it's kind of like having 4WD. How many of us use or really need that?
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If I was in the market right now I would definately look at the Nissan. It seems better equipped than the Sequoia, has more power, IRS and all the seats fold flat. Oh yeah, it offers nav for those who need it.
Well, just came home with a brand new white LTD Sequoia. Have been reading the Board a little bit - any suggestions on breaking in in correctly, gas to use (dealer suggested premium but read the previous posts that it wasn't necessary), anything else useful?
Have had the car two days now and it's great! Now we just need to figure out all the gadgets/buttons that came with it!
For me it's not as much an issue of cost, but more an issue of wanting to buy a family car that we are going to keep for a long time. I used to be an aftermarket gadget maniac, from wheels to stereos, chips, etc. At this point, I'm all about a nice "stock" car.
2heeldrive:
Great analogy on the 4wd. Like the Nav, I will not be using 4wd every day. But if I am going to plunk down $40k plus, I at least want the ability to go off road if and when I so desire. I feel the same way about the Nav. You can stretch your analogy to whatever you want - say home video systems. How many out there have plunked down ridiculous cash for the ability to blast Top Gun in surround sound? Are they doing it every day - I doubt it.
Whatever I buy now, I want it to be state of the art because we all know it will be old technology eventually. I just don't want it to be outdated next year!
Current Toyota/lexus nav systems are voice activated, so you do not have to punch in items into a screen while driving. In any case, most nav inputting features are inoperable when driving over 5mph to promote safe use.
Just to rehash some thoughts presented here -- Navs are nowhere NEAR a necessity, but factory units look and work quite nicely -- if you want to splurge a bit, then get one -- you'll probably get hooked. Also, IMO, the Sequoia should get one as an option ASAP. Toyota already makes a great unit, it just needs to be fit into the console. A nav option and a full armrest will put the sequoia on the top of my list for my next vehicle.
I'm with you and am waiting on the Armada. The sequoia is very nice but a tad under powered and lacking fold down rear seats. They need to bring the refreshed one out soon they are getting way behind the curve.
In my opinion, Toyota and Lexus make the highest quality cars on the market. I realize that many people will not need these features, but in order to stay competitive quality alone will not cut it. If it is true that Toyota will not be making any significant changes (Nav, 5 speed) I will be extremely disappointed because I really want to buy a Sequoia.
I find it hard to believe that Toyota isn't going to be more aggressive in upgrading this car, unless it is true that they are working on a more significant shift relating to blending of the Sequoia and Lexus LX. At least that would make sense in light of the Armada/QX56.
I haven't met one in person yet but, from the photos, I can't figure out how a small person (i.e. child) will get the rear doors open from the outside. Nissan "hides" the door handle way way up and at a bad angle. As someone who drops gradeschool age kids at school, I really appreciate the simple and well placed door handles on the Sequioa.
Search for "how to properly break in an engine" it's in the maintenance and repair section. I did this on my Corolla and it runs great (167,000 miles) No leaks and "uses" about a quart every 3,000 (just started recently) Also Definitely change oil early (NOW) there was a lot of metal particles in mine when I first changed at 500 miles
I was going to buy an 03 last year and decided to wait for NAV in the O4.. I was positive Toyota couldn't be so behind the curve not to install in in a vehicle that that in high likelihood would be taken on family vacations. For gods sake they have it in a car (Prius) that if you drove for more than 100 miles, you would need a chiropractor to get you out of it...I must say after having Toyotas for years, If the 04 doesn't have NAV I'm going directly to the Nissan Dealer and getting a loaded Armada. I think the Sequoia is a better looking vehicle, but I ride on the inside, so I won't have to look at it till I get out..LOL
LOL, so true! I love my Sequoia and although it is constantly berated for being under powered I think it goes fine, but I don't tow either. Toyota did a great job in matching the engine, transmission and gearing. It is definitely a polished package, one that is underrated in my opinion. I think that Toyota already had plans for a 2005 overhaul and didn't feel like re doing the dash for one model year. All that being said, I am a Nissan guy at heart and really miss my 01 Pathfinder, so if I was in the market I would seriously look at the Armada.
The dash on the 2004 Tundra is virtually identical to the 2003 Sequoia. Is this a sign? I will say that if you look at the 4Runner, GX, LX and Land Cruiser with Navs, there is definitely a consistent theme/style to the new dash layout. And if the Tundra is a sign, the Sequoia "ain't got it".
What the heck are we going to buy? American - no way! Nissan, well it has nice features but not sure about the styling and it may be too big. I love the Land Cruiser and the smaller size is actually good for my wife - but am having a hard time justifying the extra $10K.
I need to get a life, I'm obsessed with this dilemma.
Can't decide between the Sequoia and Acura MDX. Right now we have a 2000 (black) Avalon XLS and love it. Absolutely NO problems with this vehicle. We need something bigger since we have 3 kids. Mini-van is out of the question. If Toyota is doing a major over haul on the 2005 Sequoia's then we'll probably wait until next year.
I was going to buy an 03 last year and decided to wait for NAV in the O4.. I was positive Toyota couldn't be so behind the curve not to install in in a vehicle that that in high likelihood would be taken on family vacations. For gods sake they have it in a car (Prius) that if you drove for more than 100 miles, you would need a chiropractor to get you out of it...I must say after having Toyotas for years, If the 04 doesn't have NAV I'm going directly to the Nissan Dealer and getting a loaded Armada. I think the Sequoia is a better looking vehicle, but I ride on the inside, so I won't have to look at it till I get out..LOL
I'm looking for information on an issue that I (and others) are seeing on 2003 V8 Toyota 4Runners. I thought I'd check with other discussion groups to see if this issue is present on other 4.7L V8 equipped Toyotas. This includes: Tacomas, Sequias and Landcruisers.
The Issue --------- A groaning noise, especially apparent when reving the engine. Also a distinct loss of power. More noticeable when climbing steep hills or accelerating.
When it Occurs -------------- Only when ambient temperatures reach into the upper 90s and above. At lower temperatures the vehicle behaves fine.
Theory ------ The fan clutch reacts to ambient temperature and slips when cooling is not needed. It locks when more cooling is necessary. When it locks, the rpm of the cooling fan is higher, thus the noise. This is not new technology and has been utilized for years. It is called a viscous clutch mechanism.
The theory is that the viscous clutch is locking up at the higher ambient temperatures, causing the fan to spin faster. This accounts for the noise and the power loss. Several subscribers have experience with this in other vehicles and point out that when the viscous clutch locks-up the fan takes a tremendous amount of power from the engine.
See Also -------- There has been on-going discussion on the Edmund's discussion group titled "Toyota 4Runner".
Other V8 Equipped Toyotas? -------------------------- If other V8 equipped Toyotas do not display this behavior, then I would speculate that maybe there's something different about their cooling systems. Maybe the 4Runner, being smaller, didn't have as much room for as big a radiator. Maybe they compensated by using a viscous clutch with a lower "lock-up" temperature???
There are over 7000+ posts on the Sequoia board, and this is the first I have heard of this "groaning" sound from a Toyota V8. I will say that I have been on this board since Dec 2000 and haven't seen, read or heard of this. Maybe it is pertinent to the setup in the smaller 4Runner, I dunno tho'.... Not on my 2001 SR5 Seq in 43K miles of driving in occasionally hot (>80F) So Cal weather.
I'm going through the same "break in". It's a bit confusing since everyone has a different opinion. I suggest you carefully read your Owners Manual. Mine (4Runner) says the break in period is 1000 miles and not to change the oil for the first 5000 miles. During the first 1000 miles, drive moderately (don't brake hard, no hard accelerations and no heavy loads on the engine- like dropping it down into lower gears and pulling hard. I guess that means no towing or the like)
It doesn't ask you to keep under any particular speed but says to "vary the driving"- don't drive at a steady speed for extended period of time. This means don't let your first road trip start before you click over 1000 miles on the truck!
Those are the factual statements from the Toyota gods that created my beast.
This is what I also have read NOT from Toyota but an automotive journal: The gentle driving is required on modern vehicles because at a microscopic level, there are peaks and valleys on newly machined parts. These peaks need to be worn smooth- gently to "polish" all the parts for long life. Hard driving tends to "score" or gouge the said parts instead.
All this, they say, happens very quickly within the first couple hundred kilometers and none more is required.
Original oil should NOT be changed before recommended. This is because manufacturers put in additional "break in" additives that need to go through the engine. The idea that there are "metal shavings and freshly manufactured debris" in engines with tolerances in the microns is mostly hype.
Brakes should be gently used to ensure the metallic pads wear in a truly flat and balanced way. Hard braking will make the pads set incorrectly and possibly warp the rotors.
I tested the MDX and it is typical Honda product. Very nice and "light" good features and room. I dislike the mini-vanish styling and there is not the "weight of quality" one would expect.
Armada- The rear door handles- from my experience, the Nissan suv door handles are comfortable and easy to access. The quality of Nissan products is definitely a notch below Toyota and Honda. Fit/finish, that sense of "quality" and solidness isn't quite there. I enjoy their styling and that seems to be very well done at Nissan.
Sequoia- Typical solid Toyota product. I think it's kinda ugly but ... when I say typical Toyota I mean it is the best quality, very well thought out and ends up best in class.
Some mention Toyota's couple odd controls. I think it needs to be put into perspective. For a owner, any "quirk" is not a quirk once you know about it. Toyota has a very strong philosophy that remains consistent, I like that. I can respect that.
BMW and Mercedes have the same quirks. A BMW radio, for example, looks like a million black chicklets on a black panel with writing done by elves. But, it's consistent through the line.
In the grand scheme of things, this means very little. Concentrate on the steak and not the peas. I think the Sequoia comes up aces in everything except exterior styling.
Just drive the darn thing ! That's why you bought it isn't it ??? Break-in instructions are not cast in stone... As long as you take care of the care, you know the usual... things should be fine. These cars/trucks are made to last and won't suddenly break just because you drove it at 70mph with <100 miles on the odometer.
Lighten up folks.... Just drive the darn truck and enjoy your dollars at work !
I spent six months researching new vehicles and had, finally!, settled on the Acruca MDX. It had all the space, reliability, power 'n style I was looking for. Then Bush's new tax law came along. I use my vehicle almost exclusively for work. Because the Sequoia weighs in at 6,000+ lbs. GVW, I can write the whole thing off (up to #100k) ... this year! That made the Sequoia just too good a deal to pass up. "The Beast" is great fun to drive, it's a quality solid vehicle but, honestly, I don't need all its expansive space and it's city driving gas mileage (13.1 MPG according to the computer) does leave a lot to be desired. I really need the tax writeoff this year so my plan is to keep the Sequoia just as long as the IRS says I have to (?) and then trade it in on something more practicle for my needs. Sure havin' fun in the meantime, tho!
For God's sake, why is everyone calling this the Bush tax plan. He deserves lots of credit for all he is doing for the TAX PAYING public, but this plan has been around for awhile.
I had the same thing happen in my S/C'd V6 4-Runner when going over a mountain pass immediately to the west of Death Valley. The temperature outside was over 100 and halfway up the mountain pass under acceleration the engine seemed to lose a lot of power and run "rougher". I have been over many mountain passes before and since and this has yet to occur again. Not being an engineer or mechanic, I do not know why this occurs under these circumstances. Any thoughts?
I emailed a local dealership here asking questions about the 2004 Sequoia. He verified the DVD Navigation option, but didn't know anything else. He also stated that they would not get them in until the beginning of the next year. Is this what everyone else is hearing?
I have been anxiously awaiting, but have not heard anything official. I've heard everything from "no changes and they'll be here in September", to a "dash refresh" with no eta.
You are the 1st that I've heard to say anything of this sort.
I belong to a Toyota site that has a very reputable source, whom says they will be in the dealerships in mid September. Your dealer should start seeing them on their manifests in late August. She swears no major changes and no NAV. Meanwhile, Autospies say a dash refresh and NAV. So who knows. It sounds like we will have to wait and see, but I pray Autospies is the correct one, otherwise I am going to buy the Armada. I have to buy something this year to write off, otherwise I would wait for the 05 Sequoia...
I just called a local high volume dealer. I spoke with a fleet manager who looked up the Sequoia in the Toyota dealers' intranet for me. He claimed that there is zero information on the 2004 in the system.
My guess is that this is all rampant speculation with no official word yet from Toyota.
After noticing the autospies comment re dash refresh, last week I asked the sales manager of a local dealership about changes to 2004. He printed off a couple of pages of info from presumably a Toyota intranet. It indicated the only change to Limited was a pair of "headphones" and only change to SR5 was the packaging of different options. I am hoping his information is not correct. This was a Canadian dealership and it is possible there may be differences between the vehicles sold here and in the US.
Yea, listening to autospies predictions and expecting them to be correct is akin to looking up the gossip magazines at your favorite magazine rack at the checkout counter at the grocery store predicting the end of the world in April of 1999 !!! Folks, autospies drives traffic with MADE UP stories. How else would they justify people talking about them and getting $$$ from ad agencies ?? Autospies knows didly about what is up; simply a bunch of made-up cockakmy (?) stories to generate interest.
Check out their so-called insight into the 2004 LS 430 redesign. Turned out the real thing had ZERO resemblance to autospies touted redesign. I mean, not even close !
2004 Sequoia ? Here is my thumb in the air trying to determine the wind direction There is most probably little change for 2004, but more changes in 2005. Now that is what I have heard and read on the TS board where a dealer posted. And she is most definitely in the know about anything and everything TOYOTA. It is as good as gold in my books. I have known of her predictions/insights for the past 3 years, and she has been dead-on. If she says no major changes and no NAV, then you better believe it.
Comments
I'm not arguing with you, but if that is truly the case, Toyota is making a big mistake. With the new Nissan coming out and all the features available on the Expedition, Toyota is going to have a hard time selling Sequoias without either slashing prices or making changes.
I am waiting to make a purchase until I know what is going on with the Sequoia. If they add Nav, I'll buy an '04, if not there's no way I'll buy it.
You said..
"Personally, I'd rather have Toyota upgrade the armrest on the front seats.."
I say, AMEN!!!!! Toyota/Lexus: PLEASE DUMP the skimpy little armrests! I will not buy a vehicle for myself that has them. My wife's RX300 armrest's are the only problem on an otherwise splendid vehicle. Whenever I get in and out of that SUV my elbow slips and slides off of that thing... and while driving I use the PASSENGER armrest because the driver's one is so small and so close to the seat! I would love to get the Sequoia.. but those armrests... yuck!
rugeti:
I agree with you that navigation systems, while not a necessity, should be an option for sequoia owners because Toyota/lexus currently produces a FANTASTIC Nav system! I thought I would never need/want such an expensive option - 'till I became hooked on 'em!
I totally agree. About the only good thing that came out of our buying a Mercedes ML430 (first and last Mercedes we will ever own) was that I now realize how useful navigation can be. I was a HUGE skeptic before and the only reason we have it is because it came with other options that we wanted at the time. It's been great and we use it all the time.
I've heard great things about Toyota's version and really like the thought of it being integrated into the rest of the car's electronics.
My 1999 LS400 has Navigation, and it is excellent ! For a 60K car, it is a must, imo. Indeed, I am also hooked to mine and it has been very handy in many situations.
My thoughts on Toyota not offering a Nav on the Seq may be related to a rumor that Toyota will be phasing out the current LX series to be replaced with a Seq-based f/s luxury truck, afterall, the Seq is a bigger and longer truck than the LC or LX. This new offering on the Lexus side will have it all - everything - camera, laser-guided CC, air suspension, DVD-based Nav, etc... the works. Price point ? Maybe 70K.
Just my thoughts.
http://www.imakenews.com/autospies/e_article000108253.cfm
Not sure if this has been posted earlier -- if it has, sorry for the repeat.
I'm on pins and needles waiting for news on the '04 Sequoia and will make my decision then.
Can someone explain the benefits please?
Thanks.
I never had GPS until we purchased my wife's RX300. At first I hated the thing. I thought it was too complicated, too innaccurate, and a waste of money. BUT.. the more I used it the more I started to like its features. While driving for example, it shows you the streets that are coming up. If you need to make a turn or get off an expressway ramp this helps you get in the correct lane with plenty of time. Also, finding addresses in many of the neighborhoods in my area can be complicated because they use street names instead of numbers -- the nav is very helpful there too. Also, let's say you want to go out to dinner with your spouse and are feeling adventurous -- just ask the navigation system to find an "Italian restaurant" or a "French restaurant" and it will guide you to one. The newer voice-activated systems are great little gadgets to use.
Granted, a hand held GPS can probably do all of this but having one installed from the factory gives the vehicle a much cleaner, less cluttered look. Also, real estate agents, consultants, sales people, and other people whose profession requires alot of traveling will swear by the things!
Bottom line, you could get a road map for $1 and accomplish the same things, and yes handheld GPS systems do similar things more cheaply. If money were tight on a car purchase I would definately get other options instead of GPS -- but if the manufacturer provides one as an option, and I want to splurge a little, I'd definately look into getting it.
I find it to be extremely convenient, especially in a car that you are going to be taking on road trips. It's like having a combination phone book and Thomas guide for anywhere you want to go. We don't even bother getting directions anymore. We just punch in the address of where we are going, or look it up on-screen and go. When you get the factory system, you can turn up your radio and ignore it. It will turn down the radio and give you voice instructions in advance of any turns or new freeways that you need to transition to.
My wife and I even used it house shopping. We pulled a half-dozen listings in several cities and programmed them all into the Nav system. It calculated the shortest route to hit all of them and return home. We just got in the car and it took us from one to the other and then back home again. It is also surprisingly accurate and reliable. At this point we are so used to it, we can hardly do without it.
Even the small Matrix XRS (MSRP <$20K) has a DVD-based Navigation as an option. Go figure !!
Recently, a friend of ours and his family came to town for a 1-week vacation (came in from Columbus, IN). Since I was going out of town to Japan, I gave them the use of my LS with the Nav. It was invaluable asset to them. They could go anywhere without having to look up driving directions. So Cal with its network of 5+-lane freeways and ramps can be a pain if you don't have a clue where you are going. At the end of the week, my friend swore his next car will have Navigation. His current car is a 2000 E320, w/out Nav.
So, YES, Navigation, especially with voice activation can be an excellent help to many who are challenged with reading road maps, etc.
rugeti:
From your post above, I now have a better understanding and appreciation of your need for a Nav. Thx
1. 5 sunglass holders!!! Does anybody know the logic behind that one? I'm assuming the largest door is where the DVD screen would go. Please tell me there are some replacement doors that I can swap out for something other than glasses.
2. Cheap armrests. I can't decide if I should use the armrests or the center console. I'm afraid I'll scratch the cheap plastic if I use the console too much. (Cool console design, though).
3. Radio (JBL 10 speaker with single CD) is set too far into the dash, making it quite a reach to use the tuner and other buttons. Reception is not that great and the bass is too low. Doesn't compare to the Bose system in my 95 Maxima.
4. The trip computer, like in most cars, is not very accurate. I was looking for an SR5 without the convenience package, because I knew this was a useless option. The temperature is off by as much as 5 degrees, and manually estimating your mileage is the only accurate way.
Pretty minor stuff when you think about it. I'm very happy with this vehicle and have no regrets choosing it over the Expedition. (This list would have been much longer).
What a shame!
Just curious: In general terms, why did your post get deleted?
Do you look at the screen while driving? Do you touch the screen while driving? If so, seems more dangerous than using a cell phone.
Don't you take the same roads every day? I can see for a few folks who have to travel to new areas frequently, Nav would be useful... but the rest who rarely leave town or have the same commute each day I just don't see the justification. And what good is the Nav if you like to fly off for a vacation?
I guess it's kind of like having 4WD. How many of us use or really need that?
Oh well, happy navigating.... ;-)
We've had problems with shills posting for salespeople around Town Hall in the past and clogging up the boards with ads. So messages with names of salespeople will get you some lovely correspondence from the hosts explaining why your message was removed :-)
For more, please review the Member Agreement that you read when you signed up (linked in the left sidebar). You did commit it to memory, right?
Steve, Host
Have had the car two days now and it's great! Now we just need to figure out all the gadgets/buttons that came with it!
DebR
For me it's not as much an issue of cost, but more an issue of wanting to buy a family car that we are going to keep for a long time. I used to be an aftermarket gadget maniac, from wheels to stereos, chips, etc. At this point, I'm all about a nice "stock" car.
2heeldrive:
Great analogy on the 4wd. Like the Nav, I will not be using 4wd every day. But if I am going to plunk down $40k plus, I at least want the ability to go off road if and when I so desire. I feel the same way about the Nav. You can stretch your analogy to whatever you want - say home video systems. How many out there have plunked down ridiculous cash for the ability to blast Top Gun in surround sound? Are they doing it every day - I doubt it.
Whatever I buy now, I want it to be state of the art because we all know it will be old technology eventually. I just don't want it to be outdated next year!
Just to rehash some thoughts presented here -- Navs are nowhere NEAR a necessity, but factory units look and work quite nicely -- if you want to splurge a bit, then get one -- you'll probably get hooked. Also, IMO, the Sequoia should get one as an option ASAP. Toyota already makes a great unit, it just needs to be fit into the console. A nav option and a full armrest will put the sequoia on the top of my list for my next vehicle.
In my opinion, Toyota and Lexus make the highest quality cars on the market. I realize that many people will not need these features, but in order to stay competitive quality alone will not cut it. If it is true that Toyota will not be making any significant changes (Nav, 5 speed) I will be extremely disappointed because I really want to buy a Sequoia.
I find it hard to believe that Toyota isn't going to be more aggressive in upgrading this car, unless it is true that they are working on a more significant shift relating to blending of the Sequoia and Lexus LX. At least that would make sense in light of the Armada/QX56.
Steve, Host
Steve, Host
What the heck are we going to buy? American - no way! Nissan, well it has nice features but not sure about the styling and it may be too big. I love the Land Cruiser and the smaller size is actually good for my wife - but am having a hard time justifying the extra $10K.
I need to get a life, I'm obsessed with this dilemma.
Hmmm.
The Issue
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A groaning noise, especially apparent when reving the engine. Also a distinct loss of power. More noticeable when climbing steep hills or accelerating.
When it Occurs
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Only when ambient temperatures reach into the upper 90s and above. At lower temperatures the vehicle behaves fine.
Theory
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The fan clutch reacts to ambient temperature and slips when cooling is not needed. It locks when more cooling is necessary. When it locks, the rpm of the cooling fan is higher, thus the noise. This is not new technology and has been utilized for years. It is called a viscous clutch mechanism.
The theory is that the viscous clutch is locking up at the higher ambient temperatures, causing the fan to spin faster. This accounts for the noise and the power loss. Several subscribers have experience with this in other vehicles and point out that when the viscous clutch locks-up the fan takes a tremendous amount of power from the engine.
See Also
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There has been on-going discussion on the Edmund's discussion group titled "Toyota 4Runner".
Other V8 Equipped Toyotas?
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If other V8 equipped Toyotas do not display this behavior, then I would speculate that maybe there's something different about their cooling systems. Maybe the 4Runner, being smaller, didn't have as much room for as big a radiator. Maybe they compensated by using a viscous clutch with a lower "lock-up" temperature???
Articles
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http://www.atra-gears.com/gears/2002-10/2002_10_64.pdf
http://service.gm.com/techlink/html_en/pdf/200207-en.pdf#dst01
What experiences has anyone had with anything like this on any 4.7L V8 equipped Toyota?
Thanks,
Eric Rentschler
Can't help you on this, sorry.
I suggest you carefully read your Owners Manual. Mine (4Runner) says the break in period is 1000 miles and not to change the oil for the first 5000 miles.
During the first 1000 miles, drive moderately (don't brake hard, no hard accelerations and no heavy loads on the engine- like dropping it down into lower gears and pulling hard. I guess that means no towing or the like)
It doesn't ask you to keep under any particular speed but says to "vary the driving"- don't drive at a steady speed for extended period of time. This means don't let your first road trip start before you click over 1000 miles on the truck!
Those are the factual statements from the Toyota gods that created my beast.
This is what I also have read NOT from Toyota but an automotive journal:
The gentle driving is required on modern vehicles because at a microscopic level, there are peaks and valleys on newly machined parts. These peaks need to be worn smooth- gently to "polish" all the parts for long life. Hard driving tends to "score" or gouge the said parts instead.
All this, they say, happens very quickly within the first couple hundred kilometers and none more is required.
Original oil should NOT be changed before recommended. This is because manufacturers put in additional "break in" additives that need to go through the engine.
The idea that there are "metal shavings and freshly manufactured debris" in engines with tolerances in the microns is mostly hype.
Brakes should be gently used to ensure the metallic pads wear in a truly flat and balanced way. Hard braking will make the pads set incorrectly and possibly warp the rotors.
Hope that helps a fellow Toyota owner!
I tested the MDX and it is typical Honda product. Very nice and "light" good features and room. I dislike the mini-vanish styling and there is not the "weight of quality" one would expect.
Armada- The rear door handles- from my experience, the Nissan suv door handles are comfortable and easy to access. The quality of Nissan products is definitely a notch below Toyota and Honda. Fit/finish, that sense of "quality" and solidness isn't quite there. I enjoy their styling and that seems to be very well done at Nissan.
Sequoia- Typical solid Toyota product. I think it's kinda ugly but ... when I say typical Toyota I mean it is the best quality, very well thought out and ends up best in class.
Some mention Toyota's couple odd controls. I think it needs to be put into perspective. For a owner, any "quirk" is not a quirk once you know about it. Toyota has a very strong philosophy that remains consistent, I like that. I can respect that.
BMW and Mercedes have the same quirks. A BMW radio, for example, looks like a million black chicklets on a black panel with writing done by elves. But, it's consistent through the line.
In the grand scheme of things, this means very little. Concentrate on the steak and not the peas. I think the Sequoia comes up aces in everything except exterior styling.
Lighten up folks.... Just drive the darn truck and enjoy your dollars at work !
mountain pass immediately to the west of Death Valley. The temperature outside was over 100 and halfway up the mountain pass
under acceleration the engine seemed to lose a lot of power and
run "rougher". I have been over many mountain passes before and
since and this has yet to occur again. Not being an engineer or
mechanic, I do not know why this occurs under these circumstances.
Any thoughts?
You are the 1st that I've heard to say anything of this sort.
My guess is that this is all rampant speculation with no official word yet from Toyota.
I am hoping his information is not correct. This was a Canadian dealership and it is possible there may be differences between the vehicles sold here and in the US.
Check out their so-called insight into the 2004 LS 430 redesign. Turned out the real thing had ZERO resemblance to autospies touted redesign. I mean, not even close !
2004 Sequoia ? Here is my thumb in the air trying to determine the wind direction
The Sequoia's loss is the Armada's gain !