Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
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Bob
Terry.
Let me guess...now you have to look up self-deprecating???
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
Terry.
How common is that these days?
Does anyone know if (and where) I could buy a stand alone GAP insurance policy. And once the amount left on the loan equals the car value, can you cancel the GAP insurance? The dealership said I could but I don't always trust them.
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
Terry.
Remember, if you total out the car anytime in the first 3 years, your "payback" on what you do not pay in the differential between what you owe and what it's worth, will be many times the $600...also, if you do total it in the first 3 years, you will have paid out a max of $360, certainly worth the thousands it will save you in the deficiency...after paying out, there won't be any more GAP payments, will there???
I just purchased a new vehicle and had thought I needed GAP insurance. When I got home I changed my mind about the GAP insurance. Is there any way of cancelling the GAP Coverage and get my money back without a penalty?
Really a lot of problems here.
Legal due to possible failure to report accident.
Failure to keep payments current...repo.
Failure to notify insurance of accident.
Accident issues? Why was it not reported or handled correctly.
Sorry, but it looks as if there are a number of problems with your situation. Good luck working them out. You may need to consult a lawyer to see if there is anything you can do to get this all worked out.
GAP, to my knowledge, will ONLY kick in after the primary insurance has paid all it will, as in a total...THEN, if there is a balance left between what you owe on the note and what insurance paid, GAP will pay the difference, and you are not stuck with a balance on a car you no longer have...
I am sorry to say, but if there was a way to calculate how to do everything wrong, step by step, your husband has done it and screwed himself and his credit royally, hopefully not yours (if you were on the car note, and it was repo'd, your credit is shot along with his...
First, most insurance contracts demand that accidents, regardless of whose fault (in a one car deer accident, whether they blame the deer or your husband is immaterial, it is your husband's duty to report the wreck, as I assume that the deer was uninsured...
Even without a police report, with a run-in with a deer, your collision will still pay for the car...however, it isn't totalled until THEY say it is totalled, as they are the ones paying to fix it...then your GAP would kick in...
So, your husband decided to stop paying the payments because he now has a piece of junk...problem is, the lender expects payments whether the car exists or not, unless they were paid off by ins and GAP...your husband made a serious error...now, insurance probably won't pay, GAP won't kick in, and he is responsible for the entire balance, and he has no job, altho I am sure his payments would have stopped even if he had his job...
If he was afraid of his premiums going up, while a valid thought, a truly stupid excuse...he now owes thousands of $$$, ruined his credit (yours, too, if you share the note), and the increase in premiums, even over the next 10 years, would never equal the amount he owes on the vehicle...to add insult to injury, sometimes insurance companies only slightly raise your premium if you collide with a deer, as everyone knows that you can rarely avoid the collision, and it IS the fault of the deer, not you...so his failure to report may not have hurt that much at all...
They will soon get a judgment against him for the balance owed, and then turn it into a garnishment, and they will find him once he regains a job...in Georgia, they can garnish 25% of your GROSS income before taxes, where you are, I do not know...my statements are based on the assumption that you owe a substantial amount on the car, over $5,000...if you only owe $1500, then none of this matters...
He can eliminate the eventual judgment by filing Chapter 7 bankruptcy, but you must see if he qualifies under the new Federal rules (I do bankruptcy along with personal injury, so I understand the options)...no joke, while he is unemployed may be the best time to file, as one of the qualifying factors for a 7 is household income...obviously income is down when he lost his job...it will change when he regains a job...
So, while not trying to rub salt in the wound, I assume when you post that you want straight answers...if you were sitting in my office, that is what I would have told you...if you want meely-mouth, sugar coated answers, I cannot help...
And, you need to have a serious sit-down talk with someone who continually leaves financial messes for you to clean up, simply because he can't seem to take responsibility
...this is not a Dear Abby column, but, I see too much of this in my bankruptcy practice, one spouse responsible and one irresponsible, and if you do not get a handle on this now, he will make your life even greater h*ll in the future...if you do not deal with this now, you WILL deal with it later, when you both have separate attorneys and there are no assets to divide because he ruined the family finances...you may not realize this yet, but I do, you have more work ahead of you than you realize...good luck and keep us posted...
Bob
Bankruptcy will only relieve your husband of the debt, but Dad will still be responsible, as he is now...if Dad makes the payments, his credit will remain OK...
Also, after the (assumed) discharge of debt, there is nothing preventing your husband from paying back his father...bankruptcy relieves you of the LEGAL responsibility to pay a debt, but you may still pay it back after discharge, especially if it is a family loan...
However, we can talk with you about any questions you have about it and we can help you assess whether what you find would be the best choice for your son.
Good luck. Let us know what you find.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
But it is often easier to just roll the ins premium into the car payment, so getting it from the dealer as part of the purchase is usually the easiest...
To me, it is as wise as buying title insurance for your home...a one time purchase, and, if it is ever needed, the payback is immeasurable...
The only time I would say that GAP is not needed is if you put a dowm paymt of 30% or more, and do not finance the vehicle over 3 years...numerically, that is probably the only way that your car will probably be worth more than the outstanding balance on the loan, which is the reason for GAP, that you owe more on the car than it is worth...mandatory on any loan of 4 years or more, with less than 30% down...
The REAL reason for this is simple: the CARS we buy depreciate like rocks, so if your car is totalled in the first 4 years (assuming a 5 year note or longer) the value of the car has dropped so fast you will always owe more on it than its fair market value would bring...so, when the insurance pays off what the car is WORTH, but your loan has not decreased because it is a long loan, then GAP pays off the diff between what it is worth and what you owe, and that amount if often $$$thousands...
It appears that even Mercedes are depreciating more rapidly than ever before, especially when folks get these 6,7,8 year loans on them, the loans have an amortization schedule like a mortage, it is almost that funny...what some folks will do just to be seen in a Benz is laughable...
It's likely that the lienholder already filed a claim with the insurance carrier -- if one truly existed when the vehicle was repossessed. It is also likely that it was denied due to lack of cooperation from your husband.
The biggest problem you will have collecting here is not the delay from accident or lack of report, but that the lienholder has already sold the vehicle at auction. That means this vehicle has been repo'd for some time and honestly you have been invited to the game far too late to change much of anything.
There is pretty much no way a carrier will pay without any proof of loss -- especially when it is due to the insurds failure to report and the lienholders failure to prove that loss. As others have stated already then -- if no primary carrier payout, no GAP coverage payout. I agree with Bob, your husband needs to seriously inspect his personal affairs -- this kind of mess isn't due to ignorance, it's due to incompetence. You need to take over all financial affairs that even remotely involve you -- ASAP.
The F&I manager really tried to hard sell me on this.
Do I need this or it is a sales job?
As you probably know, your car, unless it is a Benz or Porsche, will depreciate like a rock in the first 3 years, even as you drive it off the lot...if you put less than 30% down, the car's value when you drive it off the lot is less than what you owe on the loan...if the car is stolen, burned, or totalled in a wreck, your insurance will only pay what the car is worth, not what you owe...so, if you owe $20K but the car is now worth $17K, you will have to come up with $3K from your pocket to cover the difference...for most folks, that $3K is difficult to come up with, especially to pay off a car you no longer own...
That $3K is what GAP ins covers...it pays the GAP between what you owe and what ins pays...the premium of $3-5 hundred dollars, usually rolled into your loan, is a small price to pay for peace of mind...I consider it MANDATORY as much as car insurance itself, because the first complaint out of EVERYBODY's mouth when their car is totalled is...WHY DO I HAVE TO PAY THE NOTE WHEN I NO LONGER HAVE THE CAR???...the question itself, per se, is really quite stupid...why should the bank lose money because your ins does not pay what you owe but what it is worth...but, folks still have a hard time making payments on an item they no longer possess...hence, this is ONE TIME that the car dealer is playing straight with you...get the GAP for every car you ever buy for the rest of your life...
Now, GAP would be unnecessary if you put 30% down and only had a 3 year note, because the 30% down would be about the depreciation when you drive off the lot, and the 3 year note would be amortized (principal paid down) about the same rate as the value of the car depreciates...so, in that case, your outstanding balance on the car loan would always be approximately what the car is worth...
But, if you only put 10% down, and financed for 4-5 years (or longer), you would be in negative equity (upside down) almost until the last year of your loan...this is especially hard on American cars, because they lose value like dropping rocks...
Example: your Chevy Malibu or Ford Explorer costs $30K out the door...you put 10% down ($3K) and carry a $27K note for 5 years...if your car was totalled at 9 months or 18 months, ins would probably pay off around $20K, because the car has lost that much value that quickly (you know this because you can't get much for a trade-in)...so, ins pays $20K, but your $27K note still has a balance of about $26K or more, because you have paid all interest in the first year...who gets stuck with the difference of $6K (26K balance minus ins paymt of $20K)???...YOU DO!!!...but if you have GAP, the GAP pays the 6K, and you walk away debt free...
I am sure you can see that this becomes worse if you buy a decked out Expedition for 40K, only put $1K down, carry a note for $39K for 6 years...at some point in the loan, you could be upside down as much as $15K, but still, the GAP will pay it if you bought the GAP...
Stop thinking...get it...NOW!!!
Bob
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
I had a list of new vehicle residual values around here some where but I cannot find it now hmhh.
The car I own is number one so good for me but since I will never sell it oh well.
There is one Merc on the list and it is the E55.
http://www.cars.com/go/advice/Story.jsp?section=buy&subject=best_resale&story=cl- - - assResidual&aff=national
Here is the overall top 10 list.
Top 10
If you click on the residual value tool you can look up the ALG residual for any vehicle. Keep in mind that the residual listed there is not necessarily the one used for a vehicles leasing program.
So, let's make it universal...unless you put 30% down, and finance 3 years or less, get GAP...which probably now covers 99% of all automotive purchases (and farm equipment...that Caterpillar stuff may lose value quickly... :shades:
I'm shocked to see the LR3 on there. The Disco II had absolutely horrid resale value. I guess they are projecting big things for this model. Only time will tell.
Of course, I also can't figure out how the LR3 is #3 on the list, while the Accord has the same residual and is nowhere to be found ... hmmmmm....
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
So for example if you were going to buy a car that was 30,000 dollars in a state with 6% sales tax and reg fees of say 175 dollars then you would need to put down... 8,000 dollars.
Total price of the car with tax and all fees would be $31,975 dollars and amount financed would be $23,975.
Lets say this particular car was a fairly good seller so no special rates avaliable and ok but not stellar so you got a rate of 6.75%.
Over the course of 60 months you would pay a total of $28,393 with payments in the amount of $473.23 a month.
I don't think you would ever be upside down in this particular scenario. If the car was a slower seller and say 2.9% or some other special rate was offered then I would still put down the 20% since there is a good chance that car will have a low resale value.
According to the residual value tool on that site the highest residual value on the Accord for 36 months is 56% for the EX sedan model.
The LR3 with the highest value is the LR3 SE or SE7 with 57% for the same 36 months. Resale value does not follow lockstep in line with residual value though.
I believe what killed the Disco more than anything was its poor reliability reputation, as well as high repair bills. I like Land Rovers, personally (but i think you knew that), so I'll be keeping an eye on the LR3.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
While you may pick and choose depending on the model, I will recommend to everybody to buy GAP as a wise and necessary purchase...for the few who want to gamble, go ahead, but since you never know if you have one of the rare depreciating models, and the odds are over 95% that your car will drop like a rock, it is not just a wise, but a prudent purchase...
We'll just have to sit back and watch the LR3 for awhile .... cuz' it's older brother sure ain't setting the world on fire ..l.o.l....
Terry.
If I may I would like to put my 2 cents worth into this. Its not the fact that most people will be upside down on a loan for at least a small portion of their loan, nor what the odds that your car will drop like a rock. The thing a prudent person should look at is the odds of you either having your car totaled or stolen in that time frame that you are upside down in the loan and what would be your average exposure to that liability.
I one time calculated that not getting gap insurance would result in a loss of about $50-60 per car that I own. To me thats an acceptable risk.
Gap insurance is not always wise or necessary so I would advise taking a long hard look at it to see if you really need it. I am not saying don't take it, nor am I saying do take it, just consider the odds and exposure to risk.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Also, clarify the 70-80% should be selling price, not MSRP. We bought a GMC Envoy XL on the GSM program almost 2 years ago trading in a Jeep GCL. Had some equity and rolled the taxes, etc into the deal. MSRP was right at $40K, financed just about $31K for 63 months at 3.99%. Checking the value at Edumnds a few times and we are probably within $2K of even. I could afford to take that hit if it happened. Stepdaughter bought a basic SUV 2.5 years ago. She could not afford to take that hit so I talked her into the GAP.
Odds of an accident...There may be a true statistical amount, say, 1 in 10,000 that you may suffer a totalling accident today...I consider that quite meaningless...the truth is, you may suffer an accident on ANY day, at ANY time, and it may even occur while your car is parked and you at at the baseball game...so, to attempt to "calculate" those odds is silly, as it is impossible...now, I will agree that getting your car stolen is higher in NYC than Cody, Wyoming, and having a highway wreck is greater on the clogged LA freeway than the desolate interstates of Montana...
But, as the posters on these sites attest, many of them are about to be hammered on the amount they still owe after ins pays, so I think it is worth to consider GAP in almost all situations...
In fact, if you are going to play the odds, why don't you just cancel your insurance altogether???after all, if you only believe you have a one in a million chance for a wreck, why not just gamble that you could pay that, rather than waste $$$ on premiums???...for some of us, the thought of paying out just a $3000 deficiency could break many...GAP is prudent, but not for all...
But that is not meaningless, the odds of the event happening times the potential pay out should be weighed against the cost. Say if during the time I am upside down on the loan I am an average of $2,500 upside down and I have a 2% chance of having my car stolen or totaled that would work out to be $50 (2,500X.02). If gap insurance costs more than that I wouldn't recommend it, especially if it is way more than that, but if its less than that its a good buy.
Sure you may have an accident anytime, but I wouldn't place to much on that happening.
In fact, if you are going to play the odds, why don't you just cancel your insurance altogether??
Because gap insurance and regular car insurance (liability, comp and collision) are two entirely different animals. The major differences are:
Legal - most states, if not all, have a minimal amount of liability that a driver/car must carry. There is no legal requirement for gap insurance.
Exposure - with gap insurance your exposure to loss is relatively small (maybe a few thousand) that will decrease over time. Liability insurance your exposure is far higher and could be in the hundreds of thousands of dollars and that can only go up over time.
Term of exposure - What gap covers is over in a relatively short time, 2-4 years (4 is a relative extream). However with liability your exposure never goes away.
Frequency of use - Lets face it you are going to use your regular car insurance far more often than you will gap insurance.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D