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And, I'm happy to report that THE SHIMMY has NOT been felt (as of yet anyway). It had just 4 miles on it when I took delivery on Saturday afternoon (now has 700 after my trip to Indianapolis today), I have been very careful with it so far and have been trying my best not to break any of the "break-in period" reccomendations. So far so good!
I love this vehicle...those heated seats really came in handy this morning also!!! I didn't want to stop driving it, that's how much I love it!
Thanks for all your help...now back to enjoying my vacation for the next couple weeks in my new LE!
Mike
Can anyone suggest me, out of the two which one should one go for! considering the price / resale, horse power and overall quality!
:-)
My choice has come down to both the PF LE AWD and the JGC Limited V8. The only advice I will give you is this:
1. Test drive both the same day within an hour of each. That's what the wife and I did, and that's the only way you will really appreciate the differences.
2. As to precise, tight handling and good "road-feedback" the PF LE is the hands down winner. You don't even feel it sway when taking a curve.
3. As to comfortable ride and soaking up the bumps, the JGCL wins.
4. As to reliabilty, PF is hands down winner (we have a leased '97 PF SE and have never had a problem).
5. As to luxury appointments, creature comfort and cabin design, JGCL is the winner. Dual-climate control, trip computer, and vehicle programmabilty start the list off. 10-way power seats with memory for BOTH the seats and mirrors linked to the key-fobs.
6. Speed: it's a toss up. PF has the very repsonsive 240hp V6, it kicks butt. The JGCL has the 235hp V8 with 295(!) lbs of torque. It's fast too and can tow more.
7. Hardcore off-road: Do I even have to say it? Quadra-drive goes beyond the PF's auto 4WD.
8. Styling: they are both some of the better looking SUVs out there.
9. Price: The PF LE *was* the winner until recently. Jeep is offering agressive incentives, you can now get a $37,700 MSRP vehicle (a loaded JGCL with V8) for about 32,300 if you are agressive. That's right, almost $6000 off list, $2000 below invoice, with more features than the PF LE. Yes you can still get a PF LE a little cheaper.
Our choice: We're going for the luxury appointments. I do a lot of mileage and my tastes are changing in my old age (40 this April).
Don't get me wrong PF folks, the new PF kicks butt and is the better handling vehicle. But Jeep just made it too tempting for us with all the incentives. We would have bought the PF if it hadn't been for the Jeep price reductions.
Hope this helps in your comparison, but it doesn't matter what I say, it's really up to you to make a list of things that are important to you and then drive both for yourself. Make sure you tell each dealer that you are considering the other car and watch their reaction.
TC
P.S. If you want a SUV that's handling is in between the JGCL and PF LE, go drive a Lexus RX300. Very smooth. And another vehicle we were considering.
I admit that the pricing is attractive here too (no general sales tax + $500 off at least, and for those who care, 0% financing for a period). Since safety is a top priority for me though, the JGC (last time I checked, it lacked even side impact airbags) is out because of its poor - for my standards - NHTSA and IIHS crash test performances. Rear legroom is also seriously lacking, and what is with the weird rear bench seat design for the middle position?
As for Quadradrive, yes, it works as advertised. However, for technical reasons that I don't really want to get into unless someone asks, the components have to be large and heavy to withstand the stress, so that adds to unsprung weight and a reduction in handling. I found it interesting that you thought that the JGC was more comfortable than the Pathfinder. I found the opposite to be true. With its solid axles, the entire vehicle (JGC) is really succeptible to bump steer; the shock on one side is transmitted to the other because of the non-independent suspension setup. This is extremely noticable on rough, undulating pavement and results in a rocking motion. A friend of mine with a '00 JGC Laredo immediately noticed the far superior ride and handling while sitting in my ML (I was only going 35 km/hr at the time, out of the parking lot!).
To add to the above, Jeep GCs haven't particularly been very reliable either. See Edmunds' long term '99 JGC Limited V8 and you'll understand.
Best of luck!
Drew
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Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards
I agree in the end what matters is the relaibility since this will be my first vehicle and i intend to keep it for a long while, but the bad thing here is the car dealers, i was treated very badly at *Academy Nissan* in Col Springs, since i am new to the country they asked me to bring a co-signer to qualify for a 3.9% APR, which I did, after verifying his credentials, they agreed and asked me to get some cash down, which I got. In the end when last of the papers had to be signed they told me 3.9% is not possible but we could still give you a "premium rate".
How can anyone justify that, and is there a forum for putting such complaints, this was a really bad experience for me which I can never forget, and only complain!
Can anyone suggest me a fair dealer in Colorado!
:-(
Sorry.....
I realize that this is not a subaru, but, to quote their slogan, 'from the wheels that slip to the wheels that grip', does this mean that, without the LSD option, PF's AWD does not transfer from the slipping wheel? just the slipping axle? (i.e., front to rear but not laft to right?). Aspenwhite gave us a link to MSN for a 4WD desc and in it is this: "Vehicles with all-wheel drive use a differential;or viscous coupling or clutch pack, depending on the vehicle's engineering;to maximize traction when needed. As wheels begin to slip in these vehicles, more and more power is automatically directed to the wheels where there is no slippage." So...is that it? PF's AWD only transfers between front and rear and only if you get LSD will you get left/right transfer (rear only)?
Also...when I switch from auto or 2WD to 4WD (hi or lo) on the PF LE am I not then getting a locking differential?
Sorry to belabor this point but I want to know what to choose.
thanks
I saw the post on the deflector, but does it really help? As I was driving to work today and my rear window was encrusted in dirt/grime, I realized maybe if it does SIGNIFICANTLY help, then I might invest. Where is the best place to get one, are there more than one type to install... I have a '01 LE Black.
Thanks!
-kj
(the rear window wiper alone would not do the trick, i would rather have the deflector alone rather than the wiper alone)
"...you should use at least 91 AKI (Anti-Knock Index) number (VQ35DE engine)...However, you may use use unleaded gasoline with an octane rating as low as 85 AKI (Anti-Knock Index) number in these high altitude areas [over 4,000 ft (1,219m)] such as:Colorado, Montana, New Mexico, Utah, Wyoming, northeastern Nevada, southern Idaho, western South Dakota, western Nebraska, and that part of Texas which is directly south of New Mexico." page 10-5
I filled up w/87 octane on Saturday night, then drove it up I-70 to Copper yesterday with three adults and gear, and it ran like a champ! I will keep an eye on the mpg to see if that changes much w/the lower octane.
almost 16.5k
ave mpg 18.5 w/K&N filter (5spd)
lovin' every smooth minute of it!!
Rear Deflector-there a big difference our rear window now ('01 SE) with the deflector and our old Cherokee w/o a deflector. Much more dirt /grime on the Cherokee window.
Shady Dealers-the whole low finace rate bait and switch is a tried and true method to get you in the door and into a car, then to call you back later asking for more money. I believe it's best to have financing set up before you walk in that door. Try your bank, Credit Union, or even online (eloan.com) good luck
For QX4 buyers, there is a $750 rebate plus similar financing.
Their online store is:
http://www.store.yahoo.com/future-nissan/index.html
I'm not offended by anything you say. I've always found your posts informative and entertaining. Your input is greatly valued.
I hear you. I don't disput many of your points, except for the weight. What do you mean by unsprung? The JGCL curb weight is actually under 4k lbs which is pretty lite compared to others. Plus, I think I could probably buy an aftermarket suspension kit to tune it for a better ride.
As to reliabilty, I truly believe all the redesign kinks from '99 and '00 have been worked out. TSBs are almost non-existent for this year's model.
I discussed the safety with the wife, and bascially said everything you did. Her attitude was that she's been driving an SUV for the last three years and feels safe enough and is able to handle it (this was her arguement against getting the RX300 with all the active control systems).
We can bascially get the JGCL loaded for $32,263 US. I'm guessing the RX300 will cost us about $36,500 if I drive a hard bargain. The ML will cost even more. Throw on NY state tax of 8.5% and things get really expensive.
Maybe you can come to my house and talk to her ;-)
TC
MDQ_NTV, After owning too many grey and gold cars I went for the White LE. I like it but I'm not crazy about it. I wanted the Beige interior so I did not have too many choices. I see only Silver, Beige, White and Bronzed Gray on the streets. Did anybody went for any other color? abt the red one? (cherry I think is called) Txs. AW
I noticed on the K&N site that the models for both the 3.3L and 3.5L engines are the same (as you discovered). However, I know the style of filter on my 99.5 PF LE and my 2001 PF LE AWD are very different. On the 3.3, the airbox lid was removed and the filter pad was laying HORIZONTALLY on top. On my 3.5, you don't open the airbox but actually unsnap and remove only the filter which is mounted VERTICALLY (actually a very slick setup). Maybe it's the same filter, just installed very differently. Can you confirm how yours mounts and what the model number was? Thanks.
You've got it! FYI, in most situations, the differential splits power equally between each wheel on an axle since each wheel has equal resistance. It's only when one wheel has less resistance that the power starts leaking to the slipping wheel (if you don't have some any kind of traction management). It is not the 4WD system that moves power from one wheel - on the same axle - to another, but the LSD. BTW, the Pathfinder with the auto 4WD option and the QX4 both use a clutch pack to transfer power from front to back and vice versa. I recommend that you keep it in the "auto" mode all of the time, even on dry surfaces. You'll probably only need to lock the centre differential (4WD Lock) when starting off and moving in thick or deep snow/mud. But then you will have to remember to switch back to auto after you're on your way and approaching dry/mildly slippery pavement.
Just so you know, I don't call the system AWD but auto 4WD. AWD systems (like in Subarus) typically don't have low and high range gearing. This system is actually more than just a simple auto 4WD system. It recognises certain slippery conditions (such as when you're braking on snow) and can transfer power to help to equalise traction on both ends of the vehicle.
Drew
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Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards
So far no complaints
Not even the RX300 owners responded.
???
Unsprung weight represents a significant portion of the total weight of the vehicle. In today's standard-size automobile, the weight of unsprung components is normally in the range of 13 to 15 percent of the vehicle curb weight. In the case of a 3,500 pound vehicle, unsprung weight may be as high as 500 pounds. A 500 pound mass reacting directly to roadway irregularities at highway speeds can generate significant vertical acceleration forces. These forces degrade the ride, and they also have a detrimental effect on handling.
It is because of the heavy solid axles on the Jeep (especially with QuadraDrive and the Vari-lok axles) that much of the vehicle's weight is unsprung. The transfer of power is also very noticable since steering effort increases dramatically (the Quadra-Trac system has no centre differential). In contrast, the Pathfinder uses a much lighter front independent suspension design. The M-class goes one step further with a four wheel independent suspension (with high strength aluminum alloy components).
As for the stability control system, unless your wife is a professional driver (which I don't think she is :-)), it's just about impossible to beat it. Have a look at this video clip.
There are other factors passive safety features that you could consider as well. Features that the Jeep lacks. For me, I'd rather spend more and get something that I know will last and hold up well in a variety of scenarios (rollovers, front offset, full width, rear end, side impact, etc.) than regret it later. This is the reason why I go around hunting for pictures to add to my miscellanous accident pictures gallery in my Photopoint album (http://go.to/m-class). At least the Pathfinder has front side airbags, a whiplash protection system, as well as good NHTSA full width front and side impact crash scores. Nissan could arguably do a whole lot more to improve the IIHS offset score though. I wasn't impressed with the RX300's rollover performance after 4 rolls.
8.5% sales tax? Count yourself lucky...here in British Columbia, there is a federal 7% general sales tax, plus a 7% provincial sales tax, and another 3% luxury tax for vehicles above CDN$32K. So, the vehicle ends up costing what ever price you get (MSRP in my case) + freight + 17% sales tax + insurance + BC tire/battery levy.
I believe the RX300 has a permanent AWD system, similar to the RAV4. Power is split 50/50 between axles, about the same as the M-class (48/52) and this helps to stabilise the vehicle futher on all surfaces. In the event of slippage, the power ratio can vary. How does permanent 4WD/full-time 4WD help on all surfaces? Read the following links:
http://www.4x4abc.com/4WD101/need.html
http://www.4x4abc.com/4WD101/tractionuse2.html
http://www.4x4abc.com/4WD101/tractionturn4.html
Drew
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Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards
We all can't afford the safety of an MB .
I was looking at those scratches on the interior of the RX300 in your pictures. They actually look more like sandy mud splashes like I get all over my 4-wheeler in East Texas rather than scratches. It would make sense that some muddy water could have entered the cab on a roll over. What do you think?
Yes, I'm echoing what pathstar said above. it mounts in that slick vertical fashion. (thanks maxima). I'll check the box tonight and get the part number to you tomorrow.
The SE comes with the rear deflector and yes the rear window is much cleaner. Been trying to decide on getting one for my LE but the deflector is a smoky plastic piece(when you purchase as an accessory from Nissan ) unlike the solid black deflector on the SE. Any suggestions?
As for the antenna, it used to be automatic but now is permanent. Do I have to remove it before going into a car wash?( Been washing car by hand , lol) Whats the easiest way to remove it?
Thanks.
Tony, did you have a chance to price shop? You may be surprised, especially if you're willing to go for a leftover (but still brand new) '00 ML. There are no official rollover tests (of course, all companies do internal tests, but the results are usually not released), so one can only judge from the real world performance. You may be interested in this article however, as well as this picture.
Well, enough digression on my part. I'd be happy to discuss it off list if you like. Click on my username for my profile and e-mail address.
ssbf, I believe someone mentioned in the past that the SE deflector can be ordered, but I think it requires changing the rear liftglass hinges (and possibly some drilling) as well.
Drew
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Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards
Welcome back to the states.... and enjoy the miles!
loboy, you know come to think of it, I've never seen a white Pathfinder! Mostly Silver, Gold (my neighbour has a gold '00 LE), green and blue. I saw a white '01 Odyssey EX for the first time last week at a dealership.
Drew
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Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards
If you want the type like in the SE ( tougher and black color) , you will need drilling since the LE does not come with the deflector. Someone on this board paid $400 for it.
I know alot of you are repeat Pathfinder owners so I would like opinions on this vehicle if you have one. I know the V6 engine is underpowered by today standards but like I said I just can't afford new.
You can view the vehicle at www.okcautocollection.com All you have to do is select Used-Nissan-Pathfinder. Its pretty much self-explanatory.
The dealership is up-front pricing and they are giving me a price of $17,900. The vehicle has been on their lot for about 3 months without a price move so I think I might be able to negotiate a little.
Thanks in advance.
http://performanceproducts.com/Catalog/KNENG/K&N Air Filter.asp
I couldn't find the box, & the K&N site is down so I can't check there.
good luck
-kj
The problem we are having is the same as everyone else's. Slight shimmy over 55-60 mph (95 kmh for us Canadians). Nissan replaced the tires. From Dunlop Grandtreks to Bridgestone Dueler H/L's. The problem got worse. I had the tires rebalanced on a Hunter roadforce balancer including match balancing. No change. I asked the dealership to go through the bulletin (ST99-002). They said they did although I'm suspect on whether or not they measured the slide force let alone tighten it. No change.
Has anyone got the dealer to swap tires/wheels with a vehicle on the lot that is not experiencing shimmy to see if that cures it? Has anyone changed to BFG Radial Long Trails with better success. Has anyone actually had the shimmy fixed by the tightening of the slide force.
Any further comments would be appreciated.
Also, I too experienced the steering wheel "popping" when the temperatures got colder. Anyone figured out what that is yet? Are they related?
Thanks,
Shimmying and Popping in Vancouver, BC
PS. Someone posted awhile ago the comment "I so wanted to love this truck" - I know what you mean!
Steve in Washington are you out there?