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Mercedes-Benz M-class (ML320, ML350, ML500 and ML55) 2005 and earlier

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Comments

  • markjennmarkjenn Member Posts: 1,142
    I think the data shows that vehicle reliability is inversely related to purchase price - the most expensive vehicles are typically the least reliable. This goes for all cars, not just MB.

     

    Most experts attribute this simply to more complex systems, particularly electronic gizmos and software, and the pioneering of cutting-edge technology on more expensive cars - technology that has not had the testing and years in service of the more mundane systems on cheaper cars.

     

    IOW, all cars offer similar reliability, but if you have more car, there are more things to break down. Any expectation that the extra money you pay for a MB, BMW, Volvo, Saab, Cadillac, Lexus, Infiniti, or Acura buys you extra reliability isn't, and never has been, backed up by the data. The most reliable cars are the relatively simple and mundane ones produced in huge numbers - for example, 4-cyl Toyota Camrys and Honda Accords with auto transmissions.

     

    - Mark
  • futurefuture Member Posts: 2
    Gentleman, you are not comparing apple to apple. What you have is a V8 by MB in contrast to V6 by Lexus. Why don't you test drive the GX470 V8 by lexus. Perhaps, this may educate your views a bit.

     

    My sister own a lexus RX300 V6, Now this vehicle reached 200,000 mile. So far, she only replaced brake pads, 5 x tires changed, normal services without any major works done to this car. Mine ML320 on the other hand, after the warrentee cost me an average US$2,700 a year. Transmission went once and it cost. The vehicle is now 120,000. It is to costly to keep, I am looking to trade in very soon.
  • yxjinyxjin Member Posts: 1
    Hi,

     

    My 1999 ML320 has only 60k miles but burns that much of oil! I have to add one quart of expensive oil for about every two gas station visits for the past year. And it getting worse!

     

    I did the oil consumption test at dealer to confirmed the fact back in August. Our local dealer then agreed to replace the engine under the class lawsuit settlement. However, the dealer later said that MB manufacture refused to do it because they can't download the vehicle data from the instrument cluster directly. The dealer can down load data using hand-held device, but the manufacture said they don't trust that device. So, they want me to pay for a brand new instrument cluster first before they even consider replacing the engine or not. That’s an expensive piece and working. I don’t see any reason I should pay for it.

     

    The dealer once praise the MB manufacture for not to replace me a refurbished engine but a brand new one. Four months later today, I don’t see they have any intention to replace the defect engine at all.

     

    Anyone had the similar problem and experience with oil consumption out there? Where should I get help on this problem?

     

    Thanks

     

    Jin

     

    (yxjin@yahoo.com)
  • krusinkrusin Member Posts: 1
    Here is my recent experience with my 2002 ML320 (30K miles). It has been in the shop four times this year (2004) for problems covered by the warranty. The most serious was in early December '04 when the car jumped when I put it in reverse. Then when I started to drive it it would rev rpms severely--I couldn't even accelerate to get on the freeway and had to take the feeder road to the dealership. I rented a car for two days and then picked up my "repaired car" a couple of days later. About a week and a half later the same transmission problem happened. I took it in. I rented a car at the Enterprise on site location. Paid taxes and $10 a day extra for SUV. Four days later the dealer called and said they had to order a Transmission Control Module (computer) from Germany and it would take up to two weeks for it to get to Houston. They also told me that I was responsible for the rental after five days (dealer's new policy). The part got in around 8 days later. Because this happened over Christmas holidays, I had the rental about 10 days over what the dealer covered. This cost me $500 extra to rent a car because Mercedes can't bother to provide parts to its US dealers.

     

    I also had two other major repairs in '04. One was to repair the fuel line. It broke while I was leaving a car wash with kids in the car. I was turning onto a street and lost power steering. The recall notice came in the mail about two months later!! I have also had numerous problems with a intermittent whistling noise, broken cup holders, power seat not working and replaced two sets of brake pads.

     

    I am going to buy a Suburban next year when my lease is up. Not only is the reliability poor of the M-class poor, the dealer now can't afford to give M-class owners "Mercedes Service" on these SUV's because of the problems they have had. Mercedes failed to have this important transmission part in supply in the US and it cost me about $500 extra to rent a car because of time to order it from Germany. I might as well by a Chevy!
  • laker67laker67 Member Posts: 1
    Too many service problems is an understatement with my 99 ML320 with 70k miles. Apparently a slow lead in steering fluid meant replaced power steering rack & pinion for $2k. MB will comp the part for $1200 - but seems way to soon for a major part failure like that. Requires aligning front end when they are done, and got more bad news that a front ball joint has to be replaced, and front hub on the other side should be. That's another $1200. Had already swallowed hard and agreed to have seat heater fixed for $350 - although not a necessary repair. Haven't even brought up occasional pass door lock erratic behavior (flicks on/off fast several times every time I release brake and start to drive forward) - only happens occasionally and then stops. I could go on...Just seems like way too many major issues for what I thought would be a solid car.
  • ml430ml430 Member Posts: 1
    You mentioned "an intermittent whistling noise". Did you ever find out what the noise was or where it came from? And, how often or when did it come on? I seem to have experienced the same noise (kind of high-pitch) upon acceleration at first, then it would go away but return when I slow down below 20 miles per hour.. I have a 2001 ML430.. Thanks for your reply..
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Hard to believe the ML has been around for 7 years now.

     

    2006 Mercedes-Benz M-Class

     

    Steve, Host
  • mercaramercara Member Posts: 291
    I had the Transmission Control Module on my 99ML320 replaced at about 35K miles. I would think that they would have fixed this problem for the 2002 module. My car was in the shop for about 3 days.

     

    The symptom was when I used to slow down/stop at say a traffic light, the transmission would downshift with a thud. I have about 70K miles now and have had no issues with the tranny ever since. The repair was done under warranty.
  • buyer4568buyer4568 Member Posts: 7
    I've had my 2002 ML320 since March 2002. It now has 28,000 miles, and the only trouble I have had is related to the cheap Dunlop tires. I finally replaced all 4 with Michelins. Otherwise, it has been the greatest car ever. It has also been in a side impact hit by a Suburban. Repaired with no ongoing issues, and we all survived. Reliability is important, but let's not forget about safety. Don't buy anything that doesn't have side head impact air bags. Who cares if you saved a few grand when your six feet under!!!!
  • derel2derel2 Member Posts: 49
    I am somewhat embarrased to ask this but how do you add windshield washer fluid for the rear window washer? My wife has a ML-430 and I wanted to top off fluid but can't find where it is added! The owner's manual doesn't show how unless I am missing it. I have serviced many cars over the years with rear window washers and never had this problem. Her car is routinely serviced by the dealer so I never had the need to do this before.
  • tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    If I am not mistaken there is a panel behind one of the rear wheel wells with the reservoir inside.

     

    tidester, host
  • losttoothlosttooth Member Posts: 12
    I have a 2000 ML-320 with ~60K. My wife reports that the the BAS and ETS lights came on today. I think I remember that this is typically a module failure, or it needs to be reset.

     

    Can anyone illuminate further?
  • xmf314xmf314 Member Posts: 154
    I saw the 2006 M-Class at the Los Angeles Auto show. It's a very attractive vehicle, and the interior is a big improvement over the present model.

     

    However, the nerdy column shifter is a little retrograde. The last vehicle I had with a column shifter was a 1983 Ford Thunderbird.
  • wmquanwmquan Member Posts: 1,817
    Nah, it's not a nerdy column shifter. What the vehicle does have is steering-wheel-mounted shifter controls, like some sports cars and sport sedans do. The column shifter is for engaging reverse and park, so it isn't a clumsy shifter like, say, a Honda Pilot.
  • clark4clark4 Member Posts: 9
    I see edmunds.com has small incentives posted for the ML... Anyone have an idead when they might be increased?
  • xmf314xmf314 Member Posts: 154
    Sorry to disagree with you wmquan, but that thing hanging from the steering column of the new M-class sure looks like a column shifter to me,

     

    I like my shifters on the floor, where the Lord intended them to be.
  • wmquanwmquan Member Posts: 1,817
    Sorry, but you misread my post. I'm not disagreeing that it's a column shifter. But a nerdy one? Nah. I highly doubt if anyone's lord intended shifters to be on the floor. Let alone ones that aren't true manual stick shifts with a clutch in the first place. It's a two-and-half-ton SUV with a manumatic, not a ton-and-a-quarter sports car with a tight, short-throw, six-speed shifter.

     

    The presence of the shift paddles on the wheel is a decidedly modern (read: un-nerdy) touch.

     

    Personal preferences on the location of controls aside, the transmission itself is an interesting 7-speed unit, quite unique in the SUV marketplace.
  • xmf314xmf314 Member Posts: 154
    No matter where the shifter is, it appears to be a great vehicle, and the 7-speed transmission only makes it more so.

     

    I may put it on my shopping list in the future.
  • mercaramercara Member Posts: 291
    The manual tells you how to reset it. Mike came on once at about 53K miles and I did the reset per the instructions in the manual. Never had the problem again.
  • mercaramercara Member Posts: 291
    I just sold my 1999 ML320 with 70K miles for $15K. My cousin bought it. I was a bit reluctant to sell it to family with the reviews and stuff like that. Anyway he insisted that he wanted it cause I have taken very good care of it. All service done at the dealer with service records. Mobil 1 from first oil change even before MB made this mandatory. Besides I have not had any major post warranty issues. I think he got a great deal at 15K. I have been posting on this board for a long time and will probably continue to chime in from time to time.

     

    I am in the Market for and LX470 or Toyota Land Cruiser. Hope to pick one up in the next month or so.
  • mlny99mlny99 Member Posts: 1
    Yeah, I have 1999 ML320 and i have the same problem. Guess what??? I gave up. My friend also has a same car, and he also has same problem.

    They did the oil comsuption also when i had the warranty, now it's over. NO MORE Warranty for me...Now i have to be careful because Mercedes Dealer will ripp you off. Recently i had a "check Engine light" that came up. First the Technician said that my piston was going bad. Some ridiculous price of LABOR more than 36hours. i started laughing!!! I said you know, i only have 60,000miles on the car and this car is driven by my wife. She does not race. And then right at way she said: Oh! It's The MASS AIR FLOW SENSOR(MAF).

    And i said: AH! On the Intake you mean??? She mumbled. And she kept going saying that if i don't fix or replace that the car will start shaking and the motor might blow. So, i implied: HAHAHAHA!!! You are funny, good try. Just for your info, i run a Performance Shop for modified cars. and i will just fix myself. And then she said then i still have to charge you for $200.00. And she asked me: How are you thinking of getting rid of Checking Engine Light off? I said don't worry. I'm not stupid. Just plug the OBD2 computer and take it out. By the way, this was from HELMS Brother's in Bayside New York(service dept).

    They wanted to charge me total of from $800.00 to $900.00 for labor and parts. I only spent $275.00 for the part. It took only 7-10 minutes to change the MAF and 2 minutes to get rid off the checking engine light.

     

    Thanks and regards all,

    RC.
  • aaaedgarpoeaaaedgarpoe Member Posts: 107
    I can't find any good reviews of the new model even though its been at auto shows for over a week now. Don't try looking -- I've looked all over.
  • markjennmarkjenn Member Posts: 1,142
    That's probably because they haven't done an initial production run yet, so there are no models in testers hands yet. The auto-show cars may not even be mechanically complete.

     

    - Mark
  • mark156mark156 Member Posts: 1,915
    I've had my ML500 for 37 months and 39,200 miles. I just put new tires on it and I'm getting close to a set of brake pads but the brake pad light has not come on yet.

     

    I have a silly question... Do our ML's have heated side mirrors? I normally keep mine in the garage but kept it out recently in the dew and noticed that when I turned on the rear window defogger, the mirrors didn't clear. Every Mercedes I've had has had heated mirrors. It doesn't say "heated mirror" on the mirror itself.

     

    I bought the top-of-the-line ML with the third seat, parktronic and navigation.... I just assumed it had heated mirrors too.

     

    Thanks, Mark
    2010 Land Rover LR4, 2013 Honda CR-V, 2009 Bentley GTC, 1990 MB 500SL, 2001 MB S500, 2007 Lincoln TC, 1964 RR Silver Cloud III, 1995 MB E320 Cab., 2015 Prevost Liberty Coach
  • aaaedgarpoeaaaedgarpoe Member Posts: 107
    Called Benz and they said the state will not let them sell used Diesels, even with over 7500 miles on them.

     

    Yet, VW lists used diesels on their dealer sites.

     

    If ou figure you are going to drive your M-class vehicle 200,000 miles and you figure 17 mpg and $2.30/gallon, thats = $27,000 in gas. But with diesel at $2.00/gallon and 30 mpg thats = $13,000.

     

    Also, there will be fewer repairs on a deisel and less chance of a breakdown.
  • tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    The difference between the two scenarios you proposed is only $3,500 - you figured the cost running diesel incorrectly. Also, 200,000 miles will take the average driver something like 14 years to achieve so the difference works out to about $5 per week.

     

    tidester, host
  • markjennmarkjenn Member Posts: 1,142
    Another issue with this computation (at least around my locale): Diesel is MORE expensive than gas, not less.

     

    - Mark
  • chumsaechumsae Member Posts: 61
    My 2000 ML320 has heated side mirrors. Nothing

    needs to be on for them to work. I noticed that

    they were on one morning when there was a dew on the mirrors and steam was rising up within a few seconds of starting the car. On my car the heater element outline (4" dia round shape) shows

    up first, then the rest of the mirror surface is

    cleared.
  • mark156mark156 Member Posts: 1,915
    2010 Land Rover LR4, 2013 Honda CR-V, 2009 Bentley GTC, 1990 MB 500SL, 2001 MB S500, 2007 Lincoln TC, 1964 RR Silver Cloud III, 1995 MB E320 Cab., 2015 Prevost Liberty Coach
  • aaaedgarpoeaaaedgarpoe Member Posts: 107
    Deisel is usually a little more this time of year since its winter and a harsh one at that!

     

    (1)(200 000 * 2.30)/17 = $27,058.8235 (Premium)

     

    (2)(200 000 * 2.00)/30 = $13,333.3333 (Diesel)

     

    (1) - (2) =~ $14,000 savings.

     

    Weekly cost savings=(13,333.3333/14)/52= $18.3150183 which is more than the $5 a week savings you, Mr Tidester proports as the truth.
  • aaaedgarpoeaaaedgarpoe Member Posts: 107
    at about 5 PM as I sat in Corona and he in Orange county that Benz will have a new 2006 E320 CDI (yep, deisel) availble for sale as new in Calfornia in 2006.

     

    I said, "I can't believe they can make the NO exmission requiremtns." He said he did not know but that is what he was told. All this darn verbal stuff.

     

    If I recall correctly, in 2006, CA will mandate the low sulfer deisel fule, whihc will help meeth the tough CA requriments, but not the NO, unless the use a hybrid do reduce pull on the diesel -- NO is a big byproduct when the engine is called to do high acceleration.
  • jpouchetjpouchet Member Posts: 38
    The Euro CDI engines, MB as well as VW, Citroen, Peugeot, Ford, and others are all ultra clean-burn engines with very low NOx emissions due to special secondary burn features and dual or triple stage catalyst. Meeting the NOx and CO2 standards for CA is a no brainer. The CDI can meet the 2006 standards today.

     

    Worse news for you, the fuel is already low sulphur. The EPA has some information at http://www.epa.gov/otaq/regs/fuels/diesel/diesel.htm though there is another site, perhaps in the bio-diesel relm, that indicates the refineries in Cal and AZ are ALREADY meeting the low sulfer standards.

     

    I too have been told by MB USA and the kind folks at Fletcher Jones in Newport Beach that the ML will be available in CY 2006 with the 320 CDI power train. Though I am anxious to buy the new ML 320 I may wait the extra eight months, ML not due until April I am told, to let the initial quality issues work out and then snag a clean burn diesel.

     

    By the way, check out biodeisel as an environmental option. http://www.biodiesel.org/ There is an interesting test of the new Jeep CRD diesel that uses the ML 280 CDI engine. These are available in the UK but will never see the US market as MB USA wants to segement the US market for higher priced/margin vehicles.
  • aaaedgarpoeaaaedgarpoe Member Posts: 107
    Production and import of Deisel must comply with 15 ppm sulfer by 1 June 2006. Sale of deisel (except comsumer use) must comply with 15 ppm by 15 July 2006. On 1 September 2006 all deisel sold in CA must meet the 15 ppm sulfer requirement. Currently the deisel can be upto 500 ppm sulfer.

     

    If Benz is going to sell a 'europen' type deisel, then it will have to wait till 1 Sept 2006, or they risk having to replace lots of clogged fule injectors on their warranty. So your wait maynot be 8 months, but 18 months.
  • jpouchetjpouchet Member Posts: 38
    If that turns out to be the case I'll most likely opt for the gas ML 350 model. That is provided it can break into the 20's with highway MPG. If not, it will be an XC 90 or X3 for me.

     

    I find it hard to believe that MB can not put the ML on a serious weight reduction program while improving the power efficiency at the same time to deliver a vehicle capable of 22+ MPG highway. This should be a reasonable expectation at the price point anticipated.
  • aaaedgarpoeaaaedgarpoe Member Posts: 107
    I spoke with a service tech at MB today and he said it is possible, though he does not know for sure, that once the low sulfer diesel comes out, there might be kit they can be installed (he thinks it might be an eash modification) with the high fule injectors -- so I think, go ahead and buy the M-class deisel in Jan 06 and upgrade to the high milage injectors once the low sulfer fuel is out in CA on 1 Sep 06.

     

    I would guess (dumbo talking here) it would probably be new injectors and may be a firmware change to the suv's computer brain.
  • michael10michael10 Member Posts: 29
    This is very exciting that MB is putting a diesel in the M-class. The MB statement says calendar year 06, does anyone know what that means, early or late in 06? Our MDX lease is up in July, so if this suv is indeed coming, I will buy the mdx out and wait for the diesel to arrive so we're not locking into another lease. The E320 gas and E320 cdi are priced very close, do we think the MLcdi will be about the same price as the ML350? If they price this the same as the ML350 and can get 30 mpg, sign me up.
  • markjennmarkjenn Member Posts: 1,142
    30 mpg for a ML diesel was just thrown out in a post designed to show the diesel in a favorable light, economy wise. This sounds wildly optimistic to me.

     

    The Touareg comes in gas and diesel versions and the mileage goes from 14/18 to 17/23, a 20-25% or so increase. I think this is a lot more represenative of what you can expect of a diesel ML compared to a gas ML, not the 75% increase from 17 mpg to 30 mpg that the poster hypothesized.

     

    - Mark
  • aaaedgarpoeaaaedgarpoe Member Posts: 107
    I'm not talking about todays deisel engines in the us on the T-reg or otherwise. I'm talking european deisel that have much higher injector pressure and smaller holes. I'm talking about getting european type mpg as of 1 Sep 06 when the low sulfer diesel oil is mandated to be pumped to consumers. I believe your 20-25% increase based on todays lower pressure injectors that have to cope with the high level of sulfer in diesel oil in the US today.
  • markjennmarkjenn Member Posts: 1,142
    Okay, I'll give you a 30% increase. Perhaps 35%. But a new type of injector is not going make diesels get nearly double the mileage of equivalent gas cars. You're not going to repeal the laws of thermodynamics with a new injector design.

     

    - Mark
  • michael10michael10 Member Posts: 29
    Lets look at the E320 - gas version gets 20/28 compared to the diesel version 27/37, which is about 35% better. ML 350 gas gets 15/18 - 35% better would be 20/24. My MDX gets close to 24 on long highway cruising. The VW touareg V10 is getting 23 highway, I would hope with the new fuel, the ML cdi being a smaller engine than the V10 would be pushing past the 25 mpg.
  • mark156mark156 Member Posts: 1,915
    Guys, I get over 20 mpg on the hwy with my 2002 ML500. If the terrain is smooth and the wind is blowing just right, I have gotten 24 on the hwy. This is of course the number that is showing on my computer.

     

    Also, someone mentioned about the windshield washer fluid for the rear wiper, mine just ran out and as I filled the front container, the back started working just fine.

     

    I still need to find out about my side mirror heaters. On my next oil change (3,500 miles), I'll ask to see what the problem is, if any.

     

    Have a great day, Mark156
    2010 Land Rover LR4, 2013 Honda CR-V, 2009 Bentley GTC, 1990 MB 500SL, 2001 MB S500, 2007 Lincoln TC, 1964 RR Silver Cloud III, 1995 MB E320 Cab., 2015 Prevost Liberty Coach
  • cedest1cedest1 Member Posts: 2
    Ok, First of all there is in the works for Diesel true, that is gonna be produced in the old Plant where most of the right hand drive M-Class will be put out. We have not started any mass production in plant 1 yet still getting the line set up from the expansion, now plant 2 is going but not at full strength, Basically because of quality, all torque is being checked manually for first 500,000 units, so you quality issue is being addressed.

     

    On the Wiper, in the new 164 both window washers are draining from the tank in the engine compartment. Your mirrors are probably like you front window, but have it looked at, it might need looking at for improvements on that option.

     

    The New W164 or M-class as you like to call it will put your faith back in our products, Looking at them and the test that are conducted on every one the is produced it is unbelievable how much better this product has gotten, your Engine choices will be powerful and options are many in this model.

     

    If you have any questions just ask I try and get answers. Great to see you all like our Alabama built Mercedes! Hope to hear from you.
  • mercaramercara Member Posts: 291
    On my 1999 ML320, I have seen numbers of upto 21 sometimes even 22 MPG when I have maintained a steady 60 to 65 miles per hour on the motorway without much traffic. However my average long term milage is about 18 MPG mixed (40% city, 60 %) highway driving. For a Body on Frame truck, this is pretty good.
  • jhinscjhinsc Member Posts: 399
    On our 2000 ML320, according to the trip computer, we'll get between 23-25 mpg at 65 mph, but usually drive at 75 so it drops to 19-22. In normal around town driving of 50/50 split, we get about 18.5 mpg. We previously had a Pathfinder LE 4x4, and we could never get above 17 mpg. So I agree the ML get's very decent mpg for the type of vehicle it is.
  • markjennmarkjenn Member Posts: 1,142
    For the folks who have checked the trip computer mileage vs. distance/pump usually find the computer a couple mpg optimistic.

     

    My 2000 ML320 does low-20's on the highway and 16 or so around town. This is pretty good for the type and size of vehicle.

     

    - Mark
  • jpouchetjpouchet Member Posts: 38
    Looking forward to that new ML from AL. The photos on MBUSA look very promising though it is difficult to get a feel for the overall size and weight. Hopefully you guys put it on a diet and dropped some serious weight out of it by going to unibody construction.

     

    Along the way of designing the new 4-valve 3.5 liter motor someone better have looked at torque curves, fuel efficiency, and gear ratios as with 7 speeds to play with and a lighter vehicle the new ML should accelerate very well while being able to pull either 6 or 7 at all highway speeds under any driving conditions thereby improving fuel economy. And with 5 lower gears the around town performance should be better as you can now match torque and BSFC better to road speed and loading.

     

    Looking forward to testing the new ML, too bad we wont get a ML280 like the Brits do. That CRD motor is sweet!
  • ncarrasquilloncarrasquillo Member Posts: 2
    when you replaced your gas filter, where was it. i cannot seem to find mine on a 2000ML 320.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
  • markjennmarkjenn Member Posts: 1,142
    The fuel filter is on the frame rail - you have to remove the left rear fender liner to get to it.

     

    On the 2000s, there is a retrofit kit to use the new-style fuel filters. Unless you can find one of the old filters, you have to have the retrofit kit done to use the new filters. It's TSB T-SI-47.10/13

     

    - Mark
  • kennynmdkennynmd Member Posts: 424
    does anyone know when will be the possible release date on the 06 ML's? Thanks
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