Lease Questions - Ask Here

CarMan@Edmunds · May 2001

Hi max63. Here is the data that you are looking for. If you decide to lease a new 2001 BMW 325i or a BMW 330i for 3 years through BMW Financial Services prior to July 2nd, the current lease money factors should be .00300 and .00210 respectively. The corresponding 12,000 miles per year residual values for these cars are presently 61% and 62% respectively.

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vkj · May 2001

ddelise · May 2001

I have some questions I hope you can answer about the Catera advertised lease.

I have analyzed the offer, and here is what I come up with:
36 month Residual = 50%
Money Factor = .0010, or 2.45%

$1799 up front costs include:
$399 first month payment
$595 aquisition fee
$805 cap cost reduction.

If these assumptions are true, then it looks like Cadillac is also offering the dealers lease cash (which would not surprise me). It looks to me to be about $1250, based on their publicized Cap Cost.

Can you verify all of this information for me, and point me in the right direction where I made any mistakes?

Thanks in advance.

karn · May 2001

I leased a 1999 grand am. my lease is due to expire in march 2002. while visiting my dealership this past week, my salesman came running over. he said that gm is willing to end my lease and give me $500 towards another new car this coming june. I love my ga but its in & out of the shop for various problems (1st year they re-designed the ga...problems!) when my lease is up in march 2002, i'll have the option to purchase the car for somewhere around $11,000. out of the 30,000+ miles I could have on my car, I only have 19,000. i'd love to get rid of this grand am and maybe go into a grand prix. is this a good deal for me to get rid of the car now? since this is a gm offer & since i have low miles on my car, do i have better bargaining power now than waiting til 2002? do i be have any additional bargaining power since my car has low miles? what are the pro's & con's of all this? has anyone else had similar offers?

curtnheidi · May 2001

Hi CarMan,

Do you have the residual and MF for 2001 Honda Accord EX 4cyl and 6cyl for the month of May? Did they change the program from last month? Thanks for the info.

Best Reagrds,
Curt

CarMan@Edmunds · May 2001

Vkj, the 330 certainly is the better car to lease, but despite its more favorable lease money factor and residual values, it still is a more expensive car than the 325 is. As a result, the 330 will still have a higher lease payment that some people feel that they can't afford. An average 330 will cost about $50 more per month to lease ahan an average 330.

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CarMan@Edmunds · May 2001

Those of you who are looking to lease a new vehicle or who are just interested in the topic of leasing may want to check out this Wednesday's chat on the subject. Here is a short description of the event:

"Like most shoppers, you want to lease the car of your choice for the lowest possible price. Leasing is attractive because of low payments and the prospect of driving a new car every two or three years. Many people figure that a car payment is an unavoidable fact of life, and they might as well drive 'new' rather than 'old.' True, leasing is an attractive alternative, but there are some things you need to understand about leasing before jumping in feet first. Talk live with our expert Phil Reed, Consumer Advice Editor for Edmunds.com, as he gives us the 'Lowdown on Leasing!'"

Make sure to stop by and check it out on Wed., May 23rd from 5-6pm PT/8-9pm ET. Feel free to use the following link to go to the appropriate section of this site: The Lowdown on Lesing.

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CarMan@Edmunds · May 2001

Hi ddelise. I am very impressed with your lease analysis. You certainly did a good job. You were very close on the lease money factor that they are using to calculate the payment, it actually are using a lease rate of 2.54%. You were also correct when you guessed that they are offering lease cash on 2001 Cateras. Right now there is $1,500 that is good on 24 to 36 month GMAC lease contracts.

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CarMan@Edmunds · May 2001

Hi karn. Through July 15th GMAC is willing to waive all of the remaining lease payments for consumers whose leases expire 9/1/01 through 3/31/02 if they lease a new car or truck through them. If the customer who gets out of their lease early purchases instead of leases they will get a $500 bonus to apply towards their new vehicle. Unfortunately the fact that your vehicle has such low mileage really does not give you any additional negotiating power. If you wait until after July 15th, GMAC probably will not let you out of your current lease early.

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CarMan@Edmunds · May 2001

Hello Curt. Honda's lease program on the Accord actually was enhanced for the month of May. Right now the 36 month 15,000 miles per year American Honda Finance Corp. lease money factor and residual value for a 2001 Honda Accord EX (non-Value Edition) are currently .00180 and 58%.

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azmom1 · May 2001

I won't lease again. Have a 42 mo lease on a Rodeo with a mailbox scratch on back-body shop gave estimate of about $300 to fix, but before doing this husband took car to be evaluated before turn in-he thinks the grumpy inspector deliberately placed another scratch in the vehicle! Also charging for wear on one tire.... few other things and by the time we turn this car in it would be costing >$1000.00!
We have a few days to do our own fixes, but this is bad; our mileage was low. Wish I'd video'd the car before husband took it in, and will before we do the final turn in-

ddelise · May 2001

Car Man - Thanks for the feedback. I appreciate it. One more question for you (on Cateras). What would happen to the residual for a 36 month lease if I increased the mileage to 15K/yr.

Thanks Again - Damon

ddelise · May 2001

Me Again.

This is another car I am considering. What are the lease factors and residuals for the 'car', for 36, or 39 months?

Also, are there any incentives out there?

By the way, the reason I am looking at these GM cars is because I have a bunch of GM funny money (credit card) to apply to the 'down payment' - about $3200 or so.

Damon

kdbes · May 2001

Dealer provided a lease rate factor of .003229 for a 7.75% APR 36 month lease. Does this interest factor seem consistent with a 36mo /12000 yr Yukon LT lease? The residual is set a 22,000 on a MSRP of 39,778. WWhen they compute the LRF why do they use a 24 Month period and apply it to a 36 month term. Should they divide 7.75 by 36 month for a 36 month lease? The purchase price is 34000. My GMS + 4% supplier number was higher than invoice. So I had to negotiate independently..

CarMan@Edmunds · May 2001

No problem, Damon. If you were to lease the Catera with 15,000 miles per year instead of 12,000 miles per year the residual value would fall 3%.

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CarMan@Edmunds · May 2001

Damon, unlike its relative the Pontiac Aztek, General Motors is not currently offering any incentives on the 2002 Buick Rendevous. If you choose to lease one through GMAC at this point, you will have to use their standard lease rate. This will vary depending upon the dealership that you go through and your credit rating, but their most attractive rate is currently 7.6%. The corresponding 3 year, 15,000 miles per residual value for a 2002 Rendevous is currently 46%. You may find that a bank other than GMAC has a more competitive lease on this vehicle.

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CarMan@Edmunds · May 2001

Kdbes, a lease rate of 7.75% on a 2001 GMC Yukon is reasonable. However, it looks to me as though the dealership that you are working with may be slightly marking up GMAC's best lease rate of 7.6% in order to bake a little more profit into your deal. When they converted this lease rate into an approximate lease money factor they were not doing so for a 24 month term. In order to convert an interest rate for any length lease into a money factor, it must be divided by 2400.

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ddelise · May 2001

Thanks Car_Man!

Amazing how much the Rendevous is expected to depreciate. There is no way I would lease one of those.

Damon

bosstrade · May 2001

Car_man,

Could you tell me what the Residual and MF for a Passat 1.8 GLS 2001.5 would be? I checked last month and just want to make sure they have not changed. I am looking at both 36 and 39 month leases with 12K miles. Thanks for all the help.

jeffreyb2 · May 2001

CarMan:

I understand that Audi recently started a special lease deal for the Audi TT Roadster (and other vehicles).. Could you provide me with the money factors and residuals for a 27 month lease with 12K miles and 15K miles - No $ down.

Thanks again,

CarMan@Edmunds · May 2001

Hi Boss, here's the info that you're looking for. If you decide to lease a 2001.5 Volkswagen Passat 1.8 GLS through VW Credit prior to the end of the month for 36 or 39 months the lease money factors should be .00235 and .00250 respectively. The corresponding 12,000 miles per year residual values for this car should be 60% and 59% respectively.

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CarMan@Edmunds · May 2001

I don't believe that Audi is providing much lease support on the 2001 TT at all. In fact, the last that I heard their lease money factor on it, for 12 to 48 month terms, is .00300. This is higher than many banks' standard lease money factors. I have not seen any 27 month residual values for this car, but I suspect that the 15,000 miles per year residual for a 27 month term would probably be right in the middle of their 71% 24 month residual value and their 67% 30 month residual value for the 2001 TT 225 Roadster. The 12,000 miles per year residual values for this car would be 2% higher than the ones that I just posted.

You certainly have picked a cool car. The TT is definitely one of my favorite vehicles on the road today. Even though its lease money factors really aren't that special, its residual values are still high enough that it makes a decent car to lease.

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cochese · May 2001

BTW, Thanks for the info on the Audi A6 2.7t and S4. The dealer I went to would not give me quite the money factor you quoted, I'm in So Cal and they said it's .00235 on the A6 2.7t...

Anyway, what is the concept behind multiple security deposits? I am also looking at a BMW 330i, and elsewhere in the town hall they say that BMW financial offers this solution to "BUY DOWN" the money factor.

How much does each security deposit reduce your money factor by? The gentelman on another posting said he used 9 security deposits to reduce his money factor to .0011 on a 330i lease.

And if this is the case, why does anyone try to reduce the cap cost when they can reduce the MF and get the security deposits back?

Help!!!!

njdriver1 · May 2001

I spent over 4 hours in 2 dealers over the weekend - brutal. The deal hinges on the residual. For 15K/yr, t&c awd ltd residual is 47% at one dealer, but 44% at another, using the same bank (wells fargo). I told them someone is mistaken, but each insisted they had it right. Car Man - do you know? btw, this has to be the lowest residual around, making leasing these things awful.

shaker58 · May 2001

mrsp 33925 sale price 31406

39 months 36000 miles
mf .00095 res 54%
tax is 8.25%
with taxes in payment 418.44 plus sec bank 1st mth and dmv upfront

we started at 480 and down to this just want to make sure this looks good he said there was a program and called me with new price also how much would mf and res change if we do 36 mths
thanks
car man

audi_girl · May 2001

Hi Car_man,

I am interested in leasing the 2001 Audi 1.8T. What is the standard interest rate for people with excellent credit? Are there any special lease rates on this car (I'm in the NYC area, but I'm willing to drive quite a bit if other states offer better deals)? Could you tell me the residual for 36 months, 15,000 miles?

How does this 2001 model being out for almost a year, and the 2002 model coming in a few months affect the negotiations? It is already about 9 months old, so when I drive it off the lot, won't it have depreciated much more than if I had driven it off the lot when it first came out? Other than getting a a new model year car with improvements, are there other factors I should consider?

Thanks.

CarMan@Edmunds · May 2001

Cochese, BMW Financial Services does allow lessees to put down multiple security deposits in exchange for a reduction in their vehicle's lease money factor. I completely agree with you that multiple security deposits makes a whole lot more sense than just making a down payment that will essentially disappear. Unfortunately, I don't know the exact rate reduction that is associated with each additional deposit. This is a fairly straightforward question that the F&I person at the dealership that you are working with should not have any trouble answering for you and probably does not have much of a reason to lie about. I suggest that you ask them this question. If you wouldn't mind, please come back and let us know what you find out so that we will be able to answer this question for future BMW FS lessees. Thanks.

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CarMan@Edmunds · May 2001

Hi njdriver1. I am sorry to hear that you have been having such a difficult time with the dealerships that you have visited. Since it would be next to imposible for me to keep track of all of the lease programs that every bank across the country is providing on a particular car or truck, I personally only try to follow the lease programs that are run by manufacturers' captive finance companies. As a result, I don't know what Wells Fargo's exact residual value should be on a 2001 Chrysler Town & Country Limited AWD. I can tell you though that the Chrysler Financial 3 year, 15,000 miles per residual value for this van is currently 43%. It is hard to say which dealer is telling you the truth. As long as you are looking at comparably equipped minivans, the length of the leases is the same, you have the same mileage restrictions, and are required to make the same down payment I think that goes without saying that you should go with the dealer that is offering you the lowest monthly payment, assuming that you feel comfortable with them. You are right though about this not being a very good lease vehicle, its resids. are pretty low.

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CarMan@Edmunds · May 2001

Shaker58, I just calculated a sample lease payment on the exact car that you are interested in, and even though Volvo Finance's national lease money factor on it is slightly higher than what you have been told the payment that I came up with is almost exactly the same as the one that you were quoted. So it certainly looks as though the dealer that you are working with is being fairly straightforward with you. This car's 36 month lease money factor would be the same as it's 39 month factor of .00181, but the 12,000 miles per year residual value would be 2% higher.

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CarMan@Edmunds · May 2001

Hi audi_girl. Yes, Audi is running a special lease on the 2001 A4 1.8T right now. If you choose to lease one (with quattro) through Audi Financial Services for 36 months and with 15,000 miles per year the money factor and residual value should be .00220 and 55% respectively. This is a national lease program, so travelling out of your normal shopping area will not have any effect upon the lease program.

I don't think that the fact that this is a 2001 model will really have much ability on your ability to negotiate a good price on it, until right before or after the 2002 models hit showrooms. At that point, dealers may be more anxious to unload the older 2001 models, but right now the fact that you are interested in an '01 will not give you much more bargaining power than you normally would have with this car.

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shaker58 · May 2001

thanks for the quick response on the volvo

liger1 · May 2001

Car Man, I have a question for you. I'm currently caress, and headed to business school (two years). I need a car, but considering the fact that I don't know where I'm going to be after school (could be in a city where I don't need a car), I'm looking for something that will last me a couple of years, but not necessarily any longer.

I've saved up quite a bit of money, and I want to pay cash for whatever I go with. My budget is between $7500 and $9000. My choices seem pretty clear: buy a used car or lease a new one. After running some lease calculations on new cars with MSRPs in the $20,000 range, it seems I can budget around $9000 for total lease payments with a 24 month lease. Mind you, this includes interest payments, which I would like to avoid.

Here's my question: how do dealers deal with customers who want to pay for leases up front go out of the way to screw customers who want to pay up front? Is the basic calculation for overall payments on the kind of up front transaction I want to make the negotiated price minus the residual (plus fees and such)? Am I missing something?

CarMan@Edmunds · May 2001

You're welcome, shaker58. I am happy that I was able to help you out.

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CarMan@Edmunds · May 2001

Liger1, in your situation if you want to lease a new vehicle, paying for the entire lease in advance actually sounds like a good idea. You won't have to worry about monthly lease payments while you are in law school, plus most banks provide lessees with a break on the interest rate that they charge for consumers who pre-pay their leases. You won't be able to avoid paying interest completely, but you will be able to get a lower rate than if you were to lease the vehicle that you are interested in normally. To figure out how much money you would need to pay to get the vehicle that you are interested in, you would calculate a pre-paid 24 month lease just like you would a normal 2 year lease. Once you have figured out the monthly payment, multiply it by 24 and you have the total amount due at signing, you will then need to add any sort of security deposit, taxes, acquisition fees, etc... Of course, if available, you would be able to take any pre-pay interest rate reduction into account in your calculations.

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bblaha · May 2001

I have a question regarding your post to liger1.

Suppose liger1 want to buy a $20k (msrp) car, and the 24 month residual is 75%. His good "prepay" rate is 0.0025 (6%).

If he calculates a normal lease payment, he would get a monthly pretax payment of $295.83 (208.33 princ + 87.5 inter). Multiplying this by 24 yields $7100 due at the signing (plus tax and fees).

However, wouldn't he be slightly better off making a payment to reduce the cap cost?

Suppose he pays $5000 to reduce the cap cost. His monthly lease payment would then be $75 (0 princ + 75 interest). Multipling by 24 and adding to the ccr results in $6800 plus fees due at signing, saving $300.

Not a whole lot of money, but considering its just how you do the math, why wouldn't you?

ctorrey · May 2001

Carman,

One last time; I just received word that my 01 A6 4.2 is due to arrive in the next 10-14 days. I'm preparing the final set of numbers to wrap up negotiations with the dealer. The 36 mth/12k lease was originally calculated 2/15/01 on invoice plus $2,600, which, including options and delivery, totals $50,300. The corresponding MSRP is $53,495.

With a $3,500 cap cost reduction, lux tax of $485, acq fee of $495, .0032 MF, 56% Residual, and 5% MA sales tax, the payment is about $755. On previous occasions you have indicated that both the quoted residual and MF were unfavorable and that the dealer may be padding the MF. I'd like to see if you have access to the current captive MF & residual figures for both 12k/36mth & 12k/39 mth leases. Won't bother you again - I promise!

Thanks again!
PS: I agree, the 2.7T is a better deal, but I just had to have the V8.

topgun7 · May 2001

hello Car_man, do you have the latest money factor and residual for SC430 and LS430 from LFS for 48 months, 15Kmi / yr? I am still waiting for the SC but may get impatient and get an LS instead (assuming that the money factor is better than SC). One dealer offer us about $5000 below MSRP for LS but would gladly charge us full MSRP for SC. Thanks.

CarMan@Edmunds · May 2001

Bblaha, your calculations are on the money. There are two major things that you didn't take into account in your post though. One is the opportunity cost of tying up the $5,000 down payment for two years. If you were to invest that $5,000 at 6%, compounded annually, you would have accrued $618 in interest over two years. I would rather have this $618 in interest than to save $300 on the lease. Also, if one makes a substantial down payment on a lease and their vehicle is stolen and not recovered or totaled, their insurance company pays off the bank that they are leasing through and that down payment essentially disappears. That is why I am a big advocate of leasing with as little down as possible.

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CarMan@Edmunds · May 2001

Ctorrey, it's no bother at all. If you were to lease a 2001 Audi A6 4.2 through Audi Financial Services this month for 36 or 39 months the lease money factor would be .00220 for both terms. The corresponding 12,000 miles per year residual values would be 53% and 52% respectively.

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CarMan@Edmunds · May 2001

Topgun7, the new Lexus SC430 is awesome! I haven't had the pleasure of driving one yet, but have had a chance to check it out in person very thoroughly. The car is gorgeous. It certainly is quite an improvement over the SC 400, which was at one point one of my favorite cars, like ten years ago. They took a long time to come out with the new model, but certainly seem to have done it right. As I am sure you are well aware those things are selling like hotcakes. Lexus is not providing any sort of lease support on either the 2001 SC 430 or the 2001 LS 430 right now. So if you choose to lease either one through Lexus Financial prior to the end of the month, you would have to use their standard lease money factor of .00300 for the 48 month term that you are interested in. The corresponding 4 year 15,000 miles per residual values for these cars are a solid 57% for the SC 430 and 49% for the LS 430.

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mwalkman44 · May 2001

Hi Car_Man- I have been following your town hall discussion for a long time and your insight is invaluable. Thank you. I am looking a leasing a 2001 GS 300 and I am would like to clarify how the Lease Security deposit works....If I was going to put $4000 down on a lease (not the best idea, I know), can I instead put this $4000 as a security deposit with the dealer that would basically take the place of the down payment? Then would this reduce the money factor and essentially my monthy payment, correct?

Thanks in advance.

mwalkman44 · May 2001

Hi Carman- it's me again. I am looking to lease a 2001 Lexus GS 300 with he premium package (NOT Levinson package) and heated seats. Here's what the numbers from the dealer look like:

$ 43,460 MSRP
$ 39,800 out the door (incl. license, tax, and all fees)
$ 4,000 Cap cost reduction (total drive off, incl first month pymt)
$ 24,314 Residual (approx 56%)
.0032 money factor
39 months

$475 per month + tax for 39 months. I have done the calculations myself, and this seems like a really good starting point....the dealer stands to make about $800 due the holdback cost (the car is not even on the lot yet). Can it be that they are this straight forward and that I only need to negotiate the price of the car down a few hundred dollars or so? Or is my math totally screwed up?

What do you think?

ps. hopefully the $4000 Cap cost reduction can be put in a security deposit account?

bblaha · May 2001

Oh, I don't disagree with you regarding making a large downpayment. But, unless I misunderstood liger1's post, that's what he wants to do - write one large check up front and then drive for 2 years.

I only posted because I wasn't sure what you were suggesting he do. Calculate a lease payment with no downpayment, then write a check for 24 times that amount, or make a large downpayment, calculate the lease payment (ends up interest only) and write a check for the total of the downpayment plus interest payments.

Anyway, I'm just going to go back to reading and learning. Thanks car_man for the service you provide to everyone.

CarMan@Edmunds · May 2001

Mwalkman44, as I mentioned in my previous post about BMW Financial Services, many banks allow lessees to put down multiple security deposits on the vehicle that they want to lease, in exchange for which they will lower the interest rate that they are charging them. Like BMW FS, LFS does have a multiple security deposit program. They will allow consumers to make up to nine additional security deposits on the vehicle that they are getting (ten total). The amount of each security deposit is usually equivalent to the car or truck's monthly payment rounded off to the nearest $50 increment. For instance, if your vehicle has a monthly payment of $599, you would be required to make one security deposit of $600 and would have the option to put down nine more for a total of $6,000. Each additional deposit would lower the interest rate that you are being charged by a certain increment, thus lowering your monthly lease payment, and in the end, assuming that your vehicle is in good shape and you are not over mileage, you would get all of your deposits back.

I just took a look at the deal that you are considering and you calculated the monthly payment correctly. In my calculations, I came up with $474.32 per month. You certainly can try to get them to lower the price of the car somewhat, but overall I think that this is a fair deal. The $4,000 down payment that you are thinking about making will not have the same effect upon your monthly payment as additional security deposits totaling the same amount of money will, but the exact amount that they will lower your payments by will depend upon how much is deduced from the money factor for each one.

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mwalkman44 · May 2001

Car_Man. I think I understand !!! Thanks again for your insight.

CarMan@Edmunds · May 2001

You're welcome, mwalkman44. I am glad that I was able to help out. Good luck in shopping for your new car and make sure to come back and tell us how you like it when the deal is done.

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blaketag · May 2001

I just ordered a 330i that should arrive at my dealership in late-July/early-August. I'm interested in leasing (3 yr/15K) and am approved through BMWFS for the current 330i promotion of .0021 money factor/60% residual. This seems like a great deal. However, it's only good through 6/30 and my car likely won't be in until late-July. Is there anything I can do to lock in this lease rate now? The dealership says "No" and BMWFS isn't much help either. I'm a little nervous "floating" on my lease rate until late-July and hoping the .0021 deal will still be there. Any advice?

Thanks!

Tom

CarMan@Edmunds · May 2001

Unfortunately, Tom, you will only be eligible for the BMW FS lease program that is actually in effect on the date that you physically take delivery of your new car. So as you were told, if your car does not arrive prior to July 2nd (the scheduled end date for BMW's current lease program) you will have to use their subsequent lease program. I can certainly understand why you would be worried about missing out on the attractive lease money factor that they currently have on this car, but you will not really have any choice but to wait until when your car arrives to lock in a rate. On the bright side, interest rates have been consistently falling over the past several months and the automotive market has lost a little steam so it is possible that their money factor would actually drop on this car in July.

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blaketag · May 2001

Car Man,

Thanks very much for the reply. One of the knowledgeable guys on the BMW 3-series board here at Edmunds indicates that BMW FS will extend lease promotions for 60 days beyond the expiration date as long as you are approved within the promotion period (I am). If this is the case, I'd be covered as the promotion would be good for me until 9/2. My car should be in long before that (hopefully). I called the finance dept. at my dealership and they seemed to confirm this. Does that sound right to you? You're right also that the MF could be less in July. I can only hope!

Tom

max63 · May 2001

I got my 330i last month, and was in the same situation. My dealer told me not to worry as long as I got approved, the same rate would apply to me for 60 days after approval. If your dealer wont guarantee the rate, call around!

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