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Back in Service - 2014 Ram 1500 EcoDiesel Long-Term Road Test

Edmunds.comEdmunds.com Posts: 10,059
edited March 2015 in Ram
imageBack in Service - 2014 Ram 1500 EcoDiesel Long-Term Road Test

Our 2014 Ram 1500 Ecodiesel is back in service after an extended stay at our local dealership to investigate why it abruptly stalled.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • yellowbalyellowbal Posts: 234
    Fair enough response from Dodge. Thanks for the detailed entry.
  • jasond52jasond52 Posts: 37
    Quoting myself from a 2/28 post: "No ignition system, but the fuel delivery system is much more complicated. Modern ignition systems don't fail, but get some dirt, water or air in a diesels fuel system and you have a major pain to deal with."

    Yep.
  • Good, detailed post. I'm glad that Fiat Chrysler Dodge Ram Trucks is going to get back to you once the parts are analyzed.
  • agentorangeagentorange Posts: 893
    I know you were TOLD that you would get feedback on the engineering analysis, but I'm not holding my breath. Too many possible legal and proprietary information issues, IMHO.
  • kirkhilles1kirkhilles1 Posts: 862
    Wow, I mean Wow. The Ram Engineering Team? Long list of parts all covered by Warranty? Two possibilities. Either this vehicle has enough uniqueness to where they are legitimately are interested, so they can fix the issue going forward OR its because of the exposure of your website. I'm betting on the latter. I seriously doubt the Engineering Team has time to address issues from the nearly 450,000 Dodge Rams sold just in 2014.
  • "Waiting for the parts to arrive from their various warehouses took most of the time"

    It is the craziest thing, there are companies now that will transport shipments overnight!

    I appreciate all the attention the repair got and may you told them you weren't in a hurry but overnighting parts isn't new.
  • fordson1fordson1 Posts: 1,512
    The more items that got removed and then replaced at the dealership...especially ones that are not normally removed - ever - during the life of the vehicle...the more trouble later. If I had a nickel for every time I've seen things done at a dealership service department with not enough time taken, not enough care taken, or both...I could retire.
  • reminderreminder Posts: 383
    Let's not forget that the primary reason for pursuing quick answers is to lessen the likelihood that customers die from such a failure. A lesson GM & Toyota have learned.
  • kirkhilles1kirkhilles1 Posts: 862
    fordson1 said:

    The more items that got removed and then replaced at the dealership...especially ones that are not normally removed - ever - during the life of the vehicle...the more trouble later. If I had a nickel for every time I've seen things done at a dealership service department with not enough time taken, not enough care taken, or both...I could retire.

    Excellent point. I bet this vehicle will wind up being a lemon down the road.
  • grijongrijon Posts: 147
    edited March 2015
    I respectfully disagree with the statement that this is not a journalist-specific response; I simply don't believe that this level of care would have gone into a private owner's vehicle.

    As time goes by maybe I'll be shown wrong regarding the care they show for their everyday (non-journalist) customers, but MY OPINION is that Chrysler has a long, long climb ahead of them out of a deep, deep pit in regards to engineering, quality, and customer service - and this may be evidence of them starting that, or (as I do believe) it's simply them providing damage control on a very public occurrence.
  • banhughbanhugh Posts: 315
    If it was a regular person with the same problem the response would be: Dealer cannot replicate the issue... And you have your truck back, untouched by the end of the day!
  • steverstever Posts: 52,462
    edited March 2015
    banhugh said:

    If it was a regular person with the same problem the response would be: Dealer cannot replicate the issue... And you have your truck back, untouched by the end of the day!


    I guess BMW didn't get the memo about the multiple cylinder misfires in the fleet 328i xDrive Gran Touring.
  • grijongrijon Posts: 147
    banhugh said:

    If it was a regular person with the same problem the response would be: Dealer cannot replicate the issue... And you have your truck back, untouched by the end of the day!

    I think this is exactly right.
  • misterfusionmisterfusion Posts: 471
    edited March 2015
    Well, the dealer replicated the long crank and saw the trouble codes as soon as Dan brought it to them. So they could not pull the "unable to replicate" routine.

    Whether or not it was the red carpet treatment for a journalist, the painstaking dissection of the fuel system is a good thing: Either it will uncover a systemic fault that can be addressed on vehicles that are driven by average Joes -- or, it was a one-off problem with this truck, in which case the average Joes should not have to worry about it.

    I wanted to add that I think the dealer has a LOT to do with how this all went down. I am familiar with two CDJR dealers. Simply put, one would have gone to these lengths for me, and the other would not. (Personal experience in both cases.)
  • tatermctatumstatermctatums Posts: 107
    edited March 2015
    Holy hell, that parts list screams shotgun tactic (we don't know what is wrong but we are going to keep replacing things until it works correctly). Oh and if anyone is curious, total list price on just the PARTS on the repair order is $11,868.70 (does not include tax or labor). Granted Chrysler paid for all of it, but still, that's not cheap.
  • banhughbanhugh Posts: 315
    stever said:

    banhugh said:

    If it was a regular person with the same problem the response would be: Dealer cannot replicate the issue... And you have your truck back, untouched by the end of the day!


    I guess BMW didn't get the memo about the multiple cylinder misfires in the fleet 328i xDrive Gran Touring.
    That's because Dan Edmunds from Edmunds.com didn't tweet anything about the BMW?
  • steverstever Posts: 52,462
    edited March 2015
    Could be - he wasn't behind the wheel for the multiple misfires adventure and not everyone tweets like Dan does. BMW probably saw this one today:


  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Posts: 5,020
    So you still don't think that there is a shortage of qualified technicians? Do you still think the machines tell the techs what to do? With all of the talent around here what would have made for a good report would have been for a couple of them get together and fix this themselves, and then "IF" they succeeded we would compare how much time they invested to what the few remaining qualified techs would actually get paid to do the job. The forums are full of the results from what the dealers and manufacturers have been doing to the trade for the last twenty to thirty years. The worst part is how they get to sit back and watch the blame be directed at everywhere, except for where it really belongs. This is only going to get worse until the real source of the issue is brought front and center and dealt with. Even then it will still get worse for a while because all of the trends have to be reversed and above all that means have the kind of pay, benefits and working conditions that would be attractive to a large percentage of the readers here and then it will be another fifteen to twenty years as they learn the skills to be the techs that you need.
  • steverstever Posts: 52,462
    edited March 2015
    Sounds like the real tech was a regional rep - employed by the manufacturer. And it sounds like even then about all they did was swap a bunch of parts out, and sent the lot to Detroit for "analysis". Hey, that didn't work - let's throw some more parts at it.

    One of these years the manufacturers will figure out that these systems need to be plug and play. The consumer downtime will be minimized and the "bad" parts will be sent to a regional center for evaluation and repair. Right now half the time you have to remove a fender liner just to replace the battery.

    After all, dropping the cradle on some cars to ease a timing chain replacement isn't a big deal and is one of the easiest parts of the job. So have the local "lube techs" drop the cradle and just poke a new loaner engine in and be on your way until the factory techs 500 miles away refurb the original one. It'll be a lot easier with EVs.
  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Posts: 5,020
    stever said:

    Sounds like the real tech was a regional rep - employed by the manufacturer. And it sounds like even then about all they did was swap a bunch of parts out, and sent the lot to Detroit for "analysis". Hey, that didn't work - let's throw some more parts at it.

    One of these years the manufacturers will figure out that these systems need to be plug and play. The consumer downtime will be minimized and the "bad" parts will be sent to a regional center for evaluation and repair. Right now half the time you have to remove a fender liner just to replace the battery.

    After all, dropping the cradle on some cars to ease a timing chain replacement isn't a big deal and is one of the easiest parts of the job. So have the local "lube techs" drop the cradle and just poke a new loaner engine in and be on your way until the factory techs 500 miles away refurb the original one. It'll be a lot easier with EVs.

    "It sounds like" isn't what it is. "It's cheaper to buy back a few cars once in a while than it is to have a fully trained and capable technician workforce". That's a quote. Let's see if we have any sleuths here who can find out who said it.

    "One of these years" well in the meantime that helps make sure that writers have things to write about too. Now who's turn in the barrel is it today?

    "So have the local "lube techs" Oh, so your kids are going to tech school. Great, cause nobody else wants their kids to become techs.
  • steverstever Posts: 52,462
    "My kid is an engineer at the regional GM vehicle resource facility" has a nice ring to it though. :)
  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Posts: 5,020
    edited March 2015
    So maybe we are talking about his/her? kids.....
  • fordson1fordson1 Posts: 1,512

    Holy hell, that parts list screams shotgun tactic (we don't know what is wrong but we are going to keep replacing things until it works correctly). Oh and if anyone is curious, total list price on just the PARTS on the repair order is $11,868.70 (does not include tax or labor). Granted Chrysler paid for all of it, but still, that's not cheap.

    Have to agree...the idea that you are going to remove all these parts from the install in which something is failing, put them on a test bench and the failure, which may be just one item and may be a relationship between items (which you have now destroyed) doesn't always work out. You are basically changing a million variables at once.

    This is parts replacement, not diagnostics.
  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Posts: 5,020
    A qualified tech would get paid .3hrs to diagnose a failure just like this one under warranty. The labor times that they would get paid under warranty to do the repair are unachievable by more than 95% of the population even if they had more than ten years experience doing the work. The most avid DIY'ers would do well to complete the repair in triple the time that a tech will be paid to do it. Do this for a few decades and one should really wonder why there are any techs at all. IMO real car people wouldn't want to see this happening, and once they did would start doing something about it. Some writers should investigate this at the ground level, not from the perspective that one would get handed to them like you see put together by the for profit trade schools.

    "This is parts replacement, not diagnostics."

    The techs don't get paid for diagnostics. What's worse is they can make more money flushing brake fluid, cooling systems, transmissions, and doing fuel injection services then they can fixing trucks like this RAM. That's not going to change until the consumers make the dealers change this. Continue to fail to do that and you can expect even more threads like this one and http://forums.edmunds.com/discussion/15080/chevrolet/malibu/2011-malibu-engine-power-reduced#latest
    and
    http://forums.edmunds.com/discussion/13798/chevrolet/equinox/2011-chevy-equinox-problems#latest
    and........
  • banhugh said:

    If it was a regular person with the same problem the response would be: Dealer cannot replicate the issue... And you have your truck back, untouched by the end of the day!

    You conveniently ignored the hard starting and Check Engine light / Trouble Codes that were still present once the truck got to the dealership. But go ahead and keep hating, hater.
  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Posts: 5,020
    His views represent about 30% of the consumers that repair techs have to try and serve on a regular basis and they have a significant impact on any new talent that would come into the trade. Its tough enough to make it as a technician with all of the politics in the workplace, and how demanding the job is both physically and mentally. Then we have to deal with that kind of pressure too. I have seen a lot of people who had real potential to be great technicians leave the trade because of how they were treated by the customers as well as the management in the shops.
  • rmhpmirmhpmi Posts: 37
    fordson1 said:

    The more items that got removed and then replaced at the dealership...especially ones that are not normally removed - ever - during the life of the vehicle...the more trouble later. .

    An excellent point. If this were My vehicle, I would already be figuring out how to get away from it, certainly before the warranty expired. I hear the comments about this being some sort of anomaly unique to this single vehicle. The vehicle is now LESS than it was from the factory and I doubt it will ever be reliable long-term.

    Edmunds, do us a favor and run a 100,000 mile LONG term test on this specific RAM.
  • This is a wide spread problem. Ram like many other manufactures are using the Bosch cp4 series HPFP. This pump, when it fails (which is common) sends metal throughout the fuel system. This is why they replace everything in it. All you need to do is Google Bosch cp4 problems and you will come up with day's and day's of reading. Lots of victims to the cp4 pumps, some lucky to have their warranty cover the repairs, some not so lucky and have to pay in excess of $11k to get their new vehicles fixed. BUT, just because its fixed now doesn't mean the HPFP is going to be ok. Tic tic tic boom, pump fails and sends metal through the fuel system once again.

    BOSCH... FIX YOUR JUNK!

    Also I have to laugh... Fiat/Ram is well aware of this problem, I guess they didn't want to comment on it.
  • rwatsonrwatson Posts: 144

    banhugh said:

    If it was a regular person with the same problem the response would be: Dealer cannot replicate the issue... And you have your truck back, untouched by the end of the day!

    You conveniently ignored the hard starting and Check Engine light / Trouble Codes that were still present once the truck got to the dealership. But go ahead and keep hating, hater.
    Some folks have had plenty of experiences like this and seen the game played many times. I'm on my 6th AC compressor on a 9 year-old car and have heard nothing but "we've never heard of this before" each time it failed, with a couple times of "Could not duplicate" as well.

    As far as "Keep Hating, Hater," please grow up and leave the fan club.
  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Posts: 5,020
    edited March 2015
    Six AC compressors in a nine year old car? Sounds like someone is simply slamming an AC compressor instead of fixing the root issue. Describe the failure, is the compressor starving for lubrication? Has anyone ever put AC stop leak into the system? How much oil is in the system? Too much is as bad as not enough. Have any other components been replaced such as the receiver drier or accumulator? What about the condenser? Has anyone tested it for restriction?

    Seeing multiple compressor failures isn't unheard of. It happens a lot when price dictates that someone only does part of the job instead of servicing the system correctly when a compressor fails.
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