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Vehicle Break-In Period

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Comments

  • skoleskole Member Posts: 4
    Can Someone tell me more about a break-in period? Things to do and not to. The owner's manual is not clear and in my opinon not adequate care for my 2001 Honda Accord. Thanks.
  • adc100adc100 Member Posts: 1,521
    No heavy acceleration for a new engine, limiting rpm's, frequent changes of speeds, if you must drive on a major highway, for longer periods of time you should get off the gas for a couple of seconds. In addition to this varying the speed, getting off the gas will suck slightly more oil into rings and probably guides. The worst thing you could do is run a new engine at a higher constant rpm. Someone like Alcan will probably be able to give you better advice. In short build up to the full potential of the engine over 1000 miles or so. Break in on newer generation engines is not as critical as it used to be.
  • alcanalcan Member Posts: 2,550
    Nothing I can add to your post, you pretty much covered it. I still remember something I read years ago: drive a new car as though there were raw eggs taped to each pedal, and don't break 'em. Pretty good advice to maximize fuel economy and vehicle life, too.
  • greg116greg116 Member Posts: 116
    If you really want your car to last, heres what you do:

    NO HIGHWAY DRIVING for the first 500-700 miles. Constant speed on a new engine is no good. City driving is actually good for a car during this time.

    Change the oil at the first 1000 miles. However i'm Canadian so Im not really familliar with miles/kilometers ratios. Do it soon! I'd say after the first 3-4 weeks. Factory oil is not to be trusted! It collects all the little residue that is normal in a break-in period and damages the engine over time.

    During city driving, drive it normally with periodic reaches into the upper RPM range. Rev it once in a while. Don't ask me why, but thats what you should do.

    Thats all i know for sure.
  • lwittorflwittorf Member Posts: 96
    I just got a 2001 chev silverado and according to the manual just don't drive at a set speed for the first 500 miles I got mine and drove it some 250 miles the first day with out shuting it off just varied it between 50& 65 and the dlr told me to get the first oil change between 1000&1500 miles. It hasn't used any oil [maybe a cup] and the power is doing real good I now have close to 3000 miles on it and every thing is all ok.
    The last one I had I did the same thing with only on that one I drove 450+ miles the first day and didn't change oil till 2500 miles but GM bought it back with only 28000 on it so don't know what it would have done in the long run.I say after 500 miles drive it like you are going to the rest of the time you are going to have it and you will be all right with proper maintance.
  • dnguyen65dnguyen65 Member Posts: 26
    BTW, u should wait a bit longer for the 1st oil change (usually ~3750 miles or 6 months) since
    new car has a specially formulated engine oil. After that, once every 3 months.
  • lspanglerlspangler Member Posts: 102
    I work in the auto industry and have never heard of "special oil in new engines"

    When buying my motorcycle I was more concerned with break in than I am with a car. A few people I know have asked various engine builders what their opinion was and they all basically said the same thing.

    Drive vehicle gently with occasional high rpm bursts, no high speeds, no prolonged highway driving. The most important part is getting heat cycles through the engine. get the engine up to operating temp for 20 minutes or so, then let cool and repeat, this gets all the parts to seat into each other.

    Other than that, just drive!!
  • skoleskole Member Posts: 4
    Thanks for your info.

    So, there is no special oil for break in? Then, should I really wait till 3725 mile to get the first oil change as specified in the owner's manual?

    You also mention no high speeds. Can you be more specific as far as how high is high, and for how long I shouldn't drive my car at high speeds?

    I fee resistance once in a while when I hit the gas pedal. Is it common for a new car?
    Thanks!
  • skoleskole Member Posts: 4
    You guys are the best!!!
  • bgabel1260bgabel1260 Member Posts: 135
    I think this topic is filled with paranoia. If the manufacturer says they use "break-in oil", they use break-in oil. So what if you can't find it at retail? People constantly mention God, but I've never seen Him. Does that mean He's for real or not? Honda says they put friction modifiers in their fill oil. Makes perfect sense. For less than $1 in raw material, these modifiers will allow the engine to gain a few % in smoothness, power, fuel economy and longevity.

    The first oil change on my 2001 Accord will be at 3750 miles. This is per Honda's and the dealer's recommendations for a city/surburban driving cycle. I won't drain it at 1000 miles nor use synthetic. Mobil 1 may prolong the life of the engine, but I certainly won't keep any car long enough to notice...snyths only increase operating costs for most car owners.

    I wonder how long some of the paranoid types keep cars...I've never owned a car for more than 38K. If you're expected to take a 50% depreciation hit after 3 years of typical ownership, do you really think I care about how the car is going to work out for the 4th owner with 175K on the odo? If they want cheap, they'll get cheap! I won't intentionally abuse my car but I don't treat it like a thin-shelled egg. Redline is there for a reason...especially with a Honda engine (or any small OHC engine for that matter).

    Honda simply says "avoid full-throttle starts". Fine. I won't test out 0-60s before 600 miles, but I'll give the engine gas if I have a tanker on my butt. The whole point is to be conscious of an engine's newness, and ordinary, prudent driving is perfectly sufficient for any modern car during break-in...Babying not necessary.
  • lspanglerlspangler Member Posts: 102
    High speed means high engine speed or high load.

    Basically just drive the car normally and change the oilat 1,000 miles. If you feel something in the accel cable, have it checked out. I work for a company that makes many accel cables!!
  • turbotcturbotc Member Posts: 163
    I too have never heard of a "specially formulated" oil that manufacturers put in their cars to break in the engine. From what I know, engines today are not like the ones of last generation. If you read the manual of your car, it might say that there is no break in required. Athough they recommend you drive gently on the first 500 or 1000 miles. Don't punch the accelerator when the light turn green. Accelerate gently. Don't go too fast on the highways and don't maintain a constant speed either. Other than that I would wait until 1000 miles or so and change the oil to remove metal remnants from the engine. If you are concern about the oil and wants to maintain your engine well, you can use synthetic oil with a premium filter such as Mobil 1 or PureOne. The oil the manufacturer puts in is no different that the dino oil you can buy in stores. Corvettes and Porsche and AMG Mercedes come from the factory with Mobil 1 synthetic already.
  • bgabel1260bgabel1260 Member Posts: 135
    If there is one topic where I think an online forum like this is useless, it's certainly about vehicle break-in. I think the hype some people portray is irresponsible and only pertains to those who want to set world-records in engine longevity. "No matter that the rest of the car is rusting apart and the tranny's shot...I've got a 300K engine!" Pfft!

    How long are you planning to keep your Accord, skole? 100K? Maybe less? If so, then don't worry about obsessive break-in procedures. Listen to your Accord manual: for the first 600 miles, avoid full-throttle starts and excessive engine stress. You don't have to drive it like a little granny or keep it under some hypothetical RPM boundary. Drive in a normal fashion, though try as much as possible to avoid hard workloads (climbing mountains, continuous high-speed highway activity, redline starts, etc). If you need to use the highway, use the highway. Don't be afraid to drive over 50 mph or whatever the magic number is today. If you weren't supposed to drive on the highway during break-in, wouldn't the manual say so? Of course it would. Varying your speed is generally good advice, but if you drive in an urban area, that shouldn't be a problem anyhow.

    Changing the oil at 1000 miles would be a mistake and too many people around here falsely tell everybody to do this. Their reasoning is to remove all of the little burrs that float in the oil of a virgin engine as it breaks in. Of course, nobody has been able to quantify if these burrs actually cause any premature wear, nor if depriving the engine of its break-in oil doesn't cause harm. The naysayers say break-in oil doesn't exist, but they just don't want to face up to the facts that some manufacturers (including Honda) put friction modifiers in the initial engine fill to control the break-in process. Drain that oil too soon and who knows what could happen. The engineers designed the engine expecting the friction modifiers to be in the engine through the first recommended oil change at 7500 (3750 city) miles. I didn't design my Accord engine, so I'll take Honda's word. Even my dealer said they do not want to see my car for an oil change until 3750 miles, so I have little precedent to give them the finger and change the oil myself at 1000 miles, like some people do. Granted, there MAY be some engines where premature oil changing is advisable, but you won't have to worry about your Accord engine. Follow the manual's service intervals. Note that Honda might, though however unlikely, INVALIDATE your warranty if you change the oil too early because an early change is not their recommendation. Why play with fire?

    I also do not recommend snythetic oils for mainstream cars driven in mainstream applications. While snythetics may prove superior over conventionals in the lab, if you don't keep a car long enough or harsh enough to notice, why increase your operating costs when you don't need to?
  • blackgtpblackgtp Member Posts: 19
    I agree everyone should drive a new car easy the first 1000 miles or so. But, if you knew what happens to the car when it comes off the line and as it is driven to the shipping lot and then loaded on the transporter, you may wonder why you need to baby it. Cars generally come off the line and are put on a dyno to test. The engine is started and then it is "put it to the wood". After it is hammered for 5-10 seconds or so, if all is well, it is driven to the shipping lot. If it breaks, it is repaired and shipped and no one knows the difference.
  • cochesecochese Member Posts: 19
    When I first bought my '97 prelude (high redline compared to most cars at the time of 7500rpm), I brought it in to my honda dealer for my first oil change at 5000 miles (I never have bought in to the 3750 deal). And my usually overzealous dealer refused to change my oil until 7500 miles were on the odometer, and quoted "honda does not want us to change the original oil until 7500 miles". I am happy to say my car has 90000 miles on it now and upon my last valve adjustment the amount of varnish on the cylinder head was remarkably low and there was no apparent wear on the camshafts or followers at all!

    Never burns oil.
    Never smokes....!

    Forgot one thing, the manual says that the interval for filter changes is 15,000 miles! You only have to change the oil every 7,500!

    I change the filter anyway... Take it to honda, $19.95, they get rid of the oil and do the dirty work. But honda doesn't even know about the 15,000 for the filter unless you remind them!

    Sorry so long....
  • lspanglerlspangler Member Posts: 102
    I like synthetic oil more for the fact that I don't hav eto change it so often than the fact that the engine should last longer. I could change my oil every 3k and be fine, but I could also use synthetic and change it every 10k instead. I'm only interested in the extended drain interval that synthetic provides. My Nissan dealer told me to change the oil at 1k miles
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Folks, the last 11 posts have been moved here from a duplicate topic - you may have noticed that the dates of the posts looked a little out of order.

    You folks who were posting in the other discussion might like to read back through the earlier posts here - there's lots of good information!

    Pat
    Host
    Sedans and Women's Auto Center Message Boards
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    There's really no hard evidence I have ever found to suggest that an engine would "last longer" with synthetic oil. Synthetic oil is best for extreme conditions...if you aren't racing, towing boats up desert passes, delivering newspapers in Alaska or competing in the Baja races, you really don't need it.

    BREAK-In is all about "common sense" really. Stay out of the redline for a few weeks and don't use your cruise control, and I can't imagine anything bad could happen to your engine's internals.
  • adc100adc100 Member Posts: 1,521
    Now that we have moved beyond injector cleaners. It is hard to prove that syn is better because of varying conditions. I can tell you that when I worked for a living (now retired engineer)I did some research on syn oils in industries. There was hard evidence in that applications where normal oils failed-syn oils suceeded. I realize you haven't seen this info but I have. I also realize that these were not car engine applications. They were pump and coal mill bearings. They were also extreme applications, above and beyond the ability of conventional oils to survive. I look at these applications and say to myself: "Syn is clearly the superior product and I want it in my expensive vehicle which I and especially my wife depend on" The facts also are that syn lubricates better because all the lubricating molecules are the same correct size for the best possible job. Not like conventional oils which have large molecules which breakdown and oxidize and small ones which boil off. Syn also clings to parts better and of course functions better in hotter and colder conditions. Army tanks used it in desert storm rather successfully if you recall. I go back to the test run with Mobil 1 where two BMWs and two Olds vehicles ran 200,000 miles each with oil changes at 7500 for 2 cars and 15000 miles for 2 cars.All wear parts came up to specs for new parts at the end of test. Could conventional do that? Not in this lifetime. Having said all that. Is syn overkill? -maybe, but that's for me.

    Later
    Al
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    HI Al, --thanks for the interesting information!

    I recall a rather famous New York taxicab test where engines were torn down after 150,000 miles...one set of cars had only conventional oil and changes, the other synthetic....the reason for the test was to determine if synthetic oil was economically viable for taxi cab companies.

    The results? The torn down engines all looked and wore the same....no difference whatsoever in engine wear.

    So this tells me that except for extreme where, as you say "regular oil cannot survive", I'd say synthetic is more or less a waste of money for the average driver.

    I actually do use it when driving my cars high speed across the desert, and I used it all the time in my Porsche because winter starts were so much better with it....but also, my Porsche engine ate a valve at 80 mph, so that was a bummer.

    By the way, synthetic oil is specifically NOT recommented for rotary engines, interestingly enough.

    You know, synthetic oil is like the fuel additives we were jus talking about...the best answer is ----"it really depends".
  • adc100adc100 Member Posts: 1,521
    I have read also that the Wankle can't digest syn oil. Don't know why. That taxicab test isn't the one Consumer Report ran is it? Probably not. I believe their test ran for 50,000 miles. I did read that test. As I recall it compared various conventional oils. Strangely, the one engine which had the syn oil threw a rod (gulp)and couldn't be compared with the other oils. Anyway, you reminded me of something: After Mobil 1 ran that test they were going to run the test with conventional oil. I called Mobil to inquire about the results after the test ended and they said that there was more significant wear with conventional oil. However, later I kept pressing them for details and never received them. I'm going to try again, but probably will not be successful because then I was talking to them as a business client working for a major corp. I'll let you know. Bummer about the Porsche. Have a good evening Mr. Shiftright.

    Al
  • bgabel1260bgabel1260 Member Posts: 135
    I think people like synthetics because it's "cool". Yea, man, I'm a real car guy 'cus I use synthetic. They use this stuff in racecars. It's the initial fill for Porsches. You drive around thinking you are babying your engine with some lab oil and you are so good to your car and it's going to last forever, yadda, yadda.

    It's a crutch, really. Residents in brutal International Falls, MN should use synthetic because it flows much better in cold. But Joe Average in Richmond, VA who changes his oil every 3 months will do perfectly OK with conventional 89 cent a quart oil.
  • adc100adc100 Member Posts: 1,521
    Thats why Joe Average is Joe Average. He likes to change his oil every 3 months instead of once a year (like me). To each his own.

    Later
  • armtdmarmtdm Member Posts: 2,057
    I live in Richmond Va and use synthetics. Of course, I change anywhere from 5,000 (twin turbo) to 12,000 depending on the car. Other then the turbo the minimum is 7,500 between changes. 130,000 miles on that one. I have noticed one major diff between those engines being fed dino vs synthetics, at least the ones I have seen. The dino enignes have a dark slime inside the valve covers, not really sludge but defintiely a greasy slime. Synthetics are clean bare metal, no deposits or grime!
    But, I have alwasy said, you can use the cheapest oil and filter you can find and if you change it every 3,000 miles you will get a minimum of 100,000 out of that engine. I just no longer like the hassle of bring the car in every 3,000 miles to some idiot ( including dealers) that may leave the plug off or the filter loose etc! I just finished arguing with a service rep about how to change the tranny fluid on a car and he kept showing me the manual and I kept saying, great, but that's not what is under my car. He finally consulted a mechanic who agreed with me. The picture in the maual was WRONG!
  • mkstringmkstring Member Posts: 53
    I just purchased a used Toyota truck (92) and a 2001 Toyota Highlander. The Highlander had 13 miles on it (currently 131), and the break in for it per the manual is 2k-4k rpm, frequent speed changes, and avoiding excessive acceleration. I called Toyota and asked about "long periods of time" on the same speed and got "if you're driving on the highway, vary speed between 2k and 4k rpm every 20-30 minutes." I'm planning on taking a trip thru east texas this weekend in it, and I have no reservations about the break in now. And, at 4k rpm, I'm going 85. At 2k, I'm at 50-55 mph. So, just about right for those frequent towns on US-59.

    In my truck manual, oil change each 5k miles is recommended since i don't live in the desert, tow (yet), or live in mountains. Basically, i don't put a lot of stress on the engine.

    All in all, ask the who made the car. They would know...
  • adc100adc100 Member Posts: 1,521
    I would take my foot off of the accelerator for say 5 seconds at a time. This sucks extra oil up through the rings for cooling and lubrication. If you are driving 60 just bump up the speed to 65 and then get off accelerator for those 5 seconds.
  • sr_bodysr_body Member Posts: 23
    I used to work at a Budget in high school and I know for a fact that the fleet cars were never broken in. Renters would take brand new cars with less than 50 miles on them and drive them 300 miles to California and back doing 90 on the highway. Renters also seem to like using the emergency brakes in lieu of the regular brakes for some reason. The high RPM drop into Drive from Neutral is also a crowd-pleasing, tire-squealing renter favorite. By the time the car has 12k miles, it usually needs some kind of engine or tranny work done. But instead of getting the cars fixed, they were usually sold to the public at the retail outlets.

    My friends and I used to love tearing up the rental cars while transporting them to other rental locations. The low-mileage ones with the emergency handbrakes were the best. We'd set the tranny to neutral, rev to redline, and slam it into gear. We'd go about 100 mph on the freeway and pull up the handbrake. Doing donuts in rear-wheel drive cars were also fun. Aaahh, youth.... That was 13 years ago. I'm sure this generation of kids are still doing the same thing.

    Moral of the story?

    NEVER BUY A USED RENTAL CAR!!
  • adc100adc100 Member Posts: 1,521
    but.... I have bought two rental Hertz Corsicas. One now has 142,000 miles and the other has 72,000. Neither uses oil and neither has had any tranny work. I understand and agree whith what you are saying, but, with careful inspection and listening to the engine, checking underneath and listening for bad statting sounds, one has a reasonable opportunity of picking a good one. If I got two good ones... chances are there are more out there. Fortunately, there are not as many idiots out there as you used to be.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Please don't call anyone "idiots" on this board....we all have a right to our opinions, but also an obligation to express them courteously. Thank you!

    Mr. shiftright
  • trippinglizardtrippinglizard Member Posts: 56
    I have 2001 Dakota V8 4.7 . . . after the dealer suggested break in period of 500 miles I put Mobile 1 synthetic in and immediately noticed a increase in horsepower, reduced engine noise, and a slight improvement in gas mileage . . . which might just be the engine breaking in . . . However I can't ignore the fact that the engine is much more quite and acceleration was much improved!!
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Hmmm...probably just the oil change itself could account for the noise decrease, and a bit faster warm up from cold could account for the slight fuel increase (synthetic does seem to work better in a cold cranking engine)....as for more horsepower, I myself don't think that is possible, other than by the natural breaking in of the engine.........as engines break in, they will exhibit all the signs you mention, by the way.
  • wtd44wtd44 Member Posts: 1,208
    I have noted increases in RPM at idle when first changing over to synthetics in cars. I suspect that a slight increase in measurable torque/horsepower at the crankshaft has occurred.
  • rcarbonircarboni Member Posts: 290
    It's interesting that the previous post was about a Dakota because one of the Mopar mags had shown that a Dakota (I believe it was a 5.9L) gained 10 horsepower at the wheels after swapping all fluids to synthetic. I have constantly tried to find that article again, but with no luck. Has anyone else seen it? I'd like to scan it for my website.

    This is from the Mobil 1 website:
    "There's not a shred of evidence to suggest that synthetic motor oils delay or prevent piston ring break-in. Maxwell speculates that the rumor got started when synthetics first came to market, and attributes it to the psyche of consumers using the new product for the first time. Remember, back in the mid-'70s conventional oil sold for about 69 cents a can. Synthetics, on the other hand, came in at a hefty 4 bucks a pop. To justify spending so much more, consumers frequently checked the oil level of their new vehicles as if expecting to see some sort of miraculous benefit. What they found instead was a crankcase down a quart of oil, which they attributed to the synthetic. In reality, losing a quart of oil during break-in was standard fare on engines of this era, regardless of the type of oil used. Unfortunately, synthetics got the blame. And they're still trying to live it down."

    Additionally, I think it is funny that so many people worry about the engine being babied at break-in. Many cars as soon as they're assembled are run to red-line on dyno-like machines and then driven maniacally into the parking lot. Heaven only knows what happens at those train depots!
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I'd say a claim that any HP increase using synthetic is impossible....oil cannot "make" HP...either it is in the engine or it isn't. I could see a car with a cold engine registering a bit more RW HP initially, but as soon as the oil warmed up I'd guess it would be the same with synthetic or regular oil.

    I'd be very skeptical of any such claims, and I would really scrutinize the conditions under which such readings were obtained.
  • wtd44wtd44 Member Posts: 1,208
    The syn does not make HP-- It lets more of the available HP appear at the crank by diminishing the little bit of frictional loss due to less lubricating fluids such as dino.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    If it were indeed true that synthetic oil produced substantial (dyno measurable) HP gains, every factory engineer would immediately recommend it in every engine, as an engineer would probably sell his grandmother for the chance to present a 5 HP gain to the CEO at a cost of about $5 per car. Promotion time, don't you think?

    But ANYWAY, that's not what the original poster wanted to know. We are getting off topic...sorry, partly my fault on that!
  • adc100adc100 Member Posts: 1,521
    How would putting syn in a vehicle benefit a particular manufacturer? They can't take credit for it in their Milage/performance ratings.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Doesn't matter...it shows up on their CAFE ratings.

    Okay, let's start another topic on this....we are talking about Break In Period.
  • rcarbonircarboni Member Posts: 290
    One word - Corvette!

    Synthetics produce less drag on components and also allow the engine to run cooler. Both of these properties are horsepower makers, especially when you consider the tranny and differential.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I am currently extremely skeptical that synthetic oil can make an engine run cooler(at least not anything a gauge will register unless it is incremented very minutely). I've never observed this on any of my cars, and I don't see why a Corvette engine should behave differently than any of mine. Nor do I understand the claim that a lower oil temperature increases HP per se. If anything, the hotter the engine the happier it is (to a point of course).

    The way a synthetic saves a bit of fuel is a faster warmup on a cold engine. As for cooling, that's what the coolant does...oil has no way of exchanging heat unless it itself is run through a thermostatically controlled cooler that sits in the airstream.

    If your engine is overheating, it will cook regular oil and then proceed to cook synthetic oil. No oil is going to save your engine if there is an adverse condition causing the overheating in the first place.

    You'd probably get more benefit pumping up your tires a few pounds and having a wheel alignment done than you would from frictional gains, I think.
  • rcarbonircarboni Member Posts: 290
    As ruking1 pointed out in the Synthetic Oil topic, the Corvette went to synthetic based on the fact that it would maintain a cooler temp and they could remove the oil cooler. Maybe that's something to investigate.

    A cooler intake charge makes more hp, that's a given. So, a cooler engine may lend itself to a cooler intake, or may not, depends a lot on the model. "Cooler" though is relevant. You have to be warmed up enough to exit open-loop mode of the computer. I swapped out my 195 degree thermostat in my Dodge 5.9L engine for a 180 degree tstat to maintain a cooler engine. If the oil helps as well, then that's an added bonus. You are right though, in that the measured temp diff is probably minimal at best. I think there is probably more impact in the tranny and diff.

    I really need to find that artice on the Dakota!
  • rcarbonircarboni Member Posts: 290
    Here is Redline's dyno test:


    http://www.redlineoil.com/dyno.htm


    They gained 4.5hp on the Corvette.

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Ah, not quite so simple.

    They got a whopping increase in HP of .85 of ONE PERCENT...so 8/10th of 1 percent, and to do this they had to change engine, trans and differential oils.

    To get a whopping 1.4 percent increase, they had to use LIGHT oils.

    My contention is that .85 of one percent is explainable as a statistical variance, and that using light oils would work the same if you used a very light regular oil.

    Like I said, pumping up the tires and getting a wheel alignment is not only cheaper, but would proably get you the equivalent (in road speed and acceleration) of 8 tenths of a percent.

    CORVETTE---yeah, maybe taking out the oil cooler is why the C5 has one of the worst possible reliability ratings in the Fall 2001 edition of Consumer Reports.

    All this is a LONNGGGG way from convincing me (yet). But keep trying, this is entertaining, and who knows, I might bite on something one of these days.

    PS: Did you also see where Redline claimed that raising engine temperature increased HP?

    So which is it?

    PPS: Uh-uh...you can't compare cold intake charge to cold engine oil...the cold intake charge is denser, and the power increase very explainable by the laws of physics. Cooler oil making more HP is not (to me) explainable (yet).
  • rcarbonircarboni Member Posts: 290
    I completely agree that the percentage is not significant. But since many people pay $200 or more for an intake that gets no more than 5hp at the wheels, and ported throttle bodies at $400 that return the same, it doesn't seem that crazy to use synthetic. I don't pay more for synthetic as I use extended drains. Therefore, if the gain is there or not, it is not costing me any more. Doesn't that convince you? ;)

    Your point is valid that a dyno may be off between two runs by this margin, but Redline supposedly made significant runs, and even switched back to the other oil to confirm. Now, the real kicker to all of this is that they were comparing two synthetics against each other, not a dino vs. a synthetic. I believe our original discussion pitted dino against synthetic.

    Different engines react differently to increased temperatures, but my experience with my supercharged engines is that the cooler they remain the more power they produce. How much the oil contributes to this I don't know. However if the sump temp is 300+ degrees, the pistons and heads must be heating up, so there might be some loss. It may be a fine line, but as I said, many people shell out a lot of money for a little edge.
  • wtd44wtd44 Member Posts: 1,208
    Some people shell out a lot of moolah and get nothing for it. You can't count on getting what you pay for, but you can count on seldom getting MORE. Now, if people THINK they have received value, then...
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Well, there may well be advantages to using synthetic, but saving money isn't one of them. I have used them for cold weather starts and for extreme hot weather use, but I change the oil at regular intervals. No way I am going to do extended oil changes--although I do stretch my diesel changes to 5K miles with synthetic.

    If we're changing the subject to racing, that's a whole other ballgame from passenger cars and what they need to run long and well...and how they behave. Racing is an extremely stressful exercise for an engine and every little bit counts.
  • wtd44wtd44 Member Posts: 1,208
    Are you one of we dino brethren that idolize the 3K cycle? If you started dino, went to syn, and have returned-- then welcome bro! You can don your colors immediately and we shall ride out to pillage...
  • formicokformicok Member Posts: 1
    Speaking of breaking-in your car....here we sit at the end of August, 2001 and I've located a new car on a dealer's lot (87 miles) that was manufactured in Oct, 2000, delivered to the dealer in Nov, 2000 and has sit there ever since. The sticker is 22,711 and with rebates, etc I can get it for 18,629.....but sitting on that lot through an entire winter AND an entire summer doesn't give me a good feeling.....any comments?!?!?
  • rcarbonircarboni Member Posts: 290
    There would be two things I would be worried about if a car sat that long: the tires and the gas. If the car hasn't been driven, then that has to be the same tank of gas that was in there when delivered. It needs to be pumped out or drained and not run through the engine. If the car has sat in the same spot, the tires will develop flat spots. If they have moved it now and again, the tires should be ok. Also, have them change the oil for good measure.

    wtd: Your kinds' days are numbered. Mercedes is seeing to that. ;)
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