Check Engine light

skreck12 · June 2001

My 97 jimmy has an intermittent light. It is random and seems to be on more than off. I had it at the dealer last week and they found a p0172(fuel trim system rich bank 1) and p0175(fuel trim system rich bank 2) codes, which lead them to change the mass air flow sensor. The light came back on soon after I left the shop, only to go out for 2 days and now is back on. The truck's performance is the same as the day I bought it, no rough idle or loss in gas mileage.
Any thoughts to the problem would be greatly appreciated.

alcan · June 2001

Anthony, try posting your problem here:

http://www.batauto.com/cgi-bin/Forum/db_TalkToMeV2.cgi?forum_name=domestics

nadavi · June 2001

Hi alcan,

code 65 is showing (Oldsmobile 1988, 3.8 I, 160K).

the vin is 1G3Cx51C2J1314517

heng · June 2001

'98 Grand Prix with 3.8 and 36,000 miles. The last few times the the gas was run low enough to cause the low fuel light to come on, the check engine light would come on soon thereafter.

Filling the gas tank did nothing but the next day the engine light would go off. This has happened for the last few tanks of gas.

Any connection between the 2?

jgmilberg · June 2001

If the fuel light comes on and then the check engine light it is a good bet that the pump is picking up air bubbles because it is not fully submerged in gas, causing a lean condition and that will set a code and turn on the CEL. Have the codes pulled, and see what's up. You are not too far out of warranty so the dealer should do it for nothing, but ask first.

heng · June 2001

Thanks. But the low fuel light comes on and I still have 5 gallons in the tank.

Since it hasn't done this before and there is 5 gallons in the tank, then the assumption would have to be that the fuel pickup has moved.

I would take it to the dealer except my son has taken the other car for the summer.

vicslim · July 2001

I have a 1989 Olds Cutlass with what I believe are fuel filter problems... Sometimes I'm stopped at a light, with the brake pressed, and my rpm's will shoot up to around 10,000. Then when I depress the brake and give gas, the car will lose power and stall out. Then I have to press the accelerator all the way down and start it back up.. Can anyway help with a diagnosis? Can this cause the "Service Engine Soon" light to come on? Because now, after driving for about 3 minutes, the light comes on and stays on, whereas before, it used to come on and shut off after a few minutes.. If anyone has any clue, please advise..

0patience · July 2001

GM Code Retrieval info
After you check the trouble codes, come back and let us know what you found.

jgmilberg · July 2001

It did the same thing, pulled the code, and it ended up being a bad O2 sensor. Pull the codes b 4 throwing parts at it!!

zueslewis · July 2001

I can't tell you the number of customers I've had come in (dealership service department) with a check engine light on because they didn't tighten the gas cap properly. This usually only applies to '96 and later vehicles with the OBD-II diagnostic system. People get in a hurry and throw the cap on and don't let it click 3 or 4 times. Should I charge them for the tech's diag time because they can't read their owners manual?

textruckr · July 2001

Since you have quite a bit of experience with GM vehicles, I thought I would bounce this question off of you - it has been a subject of lively debate between me and a friend.
I have a 1986 GMC Suburban (project vehicle). My friend (who was a GM Service Writer once upon a time ) insists that it should have an Assembly Line Data Link. I could never find one on it though, and I don't think that it ever had one. My reasoning for this is based on the fact that it is carbureted (QuadraJet 4barrel, MC series without the adjustable jetting) and it doesn't have a "check engine" or service engine soon light. It is 5.7L, federal/standard emissions.
I also feel it shouldn't have an ALDL since it (apparently) isn't equipped with an ECM. I looked behind the glove box and everywhere else. Besides, it doesn't have an O2 sensor, TPS, IAC or anything else normally considered a part of the TBI or Cal. Emissions system. In fact, it still has the old speedo cable instead of VSS.
What is your take on this?
Thanks in advance.
TxTruckr
I also have questions for you later about troubleshooting high idle problems in a '94 Chevy 3500 CC/Dually 5spd (will post later).
FWIW - I once cleared a "SES" light on my OBDII equipped '96 C1500 (result of loose plug wire after tune-up) by leaving the battery cable off for about an hour, any less and it would still have the code set.

0patience · July 2001

Most 86 trucks did not have the ADLD.
Most trucks were not equipped with fuel injection nor an ECM in 86. Only if the carb is a feedback carb might there be a connector.
The 85 and 86 models are maybe do, maybe don't.
Very few of the 85 models had fuel injection.
No "check engine" light, no ECM, no ADLD connector.
87 was the first year that almost all trucks with the 350 had the ECM.

bburton1 · July 2001

Already posted this under Honda-did not know this group existed but here is the problem. About every 5 to 10 times I drive the vehicle (97 Accord LX, W/O AGS, I4 with 113K), the check engine light comes on at around 50 MPH. I check the code-it is 90 every time-reset the light by pulling the appropriate fuse and it will appear again after 5-10 trips.

Have the shop manual and for the LX W/O ABS and following their diagnostic trail, I come up with Intermittent failure, check for poor connections or loose wires at EVAP flow switch and ECM/PCM.

Anyone ever run into this one before-plan to clean the contacts with some electrical connection cleaner, lightly coat them with some di-electric compound and see if that keeps the light off.

Any other suggestions.

textruckr · July 2001

I thought I was right - why would you put an ALDL on a truck without an ECM?
Next question - Although it hasn't set a code, I was wondering if I had a problem on a '94 C3500, 7.4L NV4500 5spd. When I approach a stop and push in the clutch the RPMs only drop to around 1200, and then down to 1000 after about 5 seconds. It will not drop down to its normal idle speed (850-900) until after almost 45 seconds. I was wondering if I might have a sluggish (or sticking) IAC servo motor, a failing TPS - or maybe this is normal?
Although most folks seem to dislike the OBD and OBDII systems, I think they are great. All of the previous vehicles I have owned would NEVER tell you what was wrong with them, you had to go through a lot of diagnostics yourself and then sometimes result to easter-egging! I wonder how many Dodge owners have been taken in by the open ballast resistor?
Thanks
Texas Truck - r

0patience · July 2001

I'd check for a vacuum leak.
It's possible that the IAC is sluggish, but a vacuum leak is more probable, I think.

textruckr · July 2001

as soon as it cools off out there!
Wow, 100 degrees. I may pull 'er into the barn for some shade later this afternoon.
What do you use to snoop for vacuum leaks? I am out of carb cleaner (used it all up cleaning trailer wheel bearings). I have heard of using WD-40, but never tried it. You?
I suspected a vacuum leak, but I cannot remember why I dismissed it. Hmm, could be slipping in my old age.

Texas Truck-r

0patience · July 2001

I use carb cleaner, spray it around suspect areas, like connections and throttle plate/throttle body in short bursts, then when you hit an vacuum leak, the idle will change, either will level out or roughen up, depending on the leak.
WD-40 could work, but would take a little more to detect the leak.

Know about memory thing, got tons of little notes everywhere, but can never remember where the one I need is. ha ha

square3 · July 2001

Any advice about how to improve the performance of the old OHV motor in my 1994 Explorer and where can I get the necessary parts over the internet? All info gratefully accepted.

textruckr · July 2001

There are many aftermarket suppliers for performance equipment.
Use a search engine and look for names like "Summit Racing" and "JEGS". Thet tend to have a whole range of goodies to perk up nay engine.

Texas Truck - r

perry40 · July 2001

My car's C.E. light came on (& stayed on) at 4900km (3300 miles) ... know all about the gas cap thing; checked it & it was fine. Have driven about 100km (62 miles) since, with about a dozen start-ups/shut-downs ... the light is still on. Any ideas? Appreciate it very much!

heng · July 2001

to have them read any codes. Without an interfacing computer to hopefully tell you the problem, you are in the dark.

0patience · July 2001

I agree with "heng",
It will need to be accessed thru a scanner.
Should be under warranyt, so what is the problem with having the dealer find the problem?
As for what could it be? Anything.
The list of codes is in the hundreds.

perry40 · August 2001

I've scheduled a service appointment with my servce dept. for tomorrow (Aug. 2nd) and will post all findings so others can possibly benefit from the information. Thanks all!
perry40; 2001 Hyundai Accent GS

mrdetailer · August 2001

On my Subaru, the light would come on intermittently. After a week they were finally able to determine that it was a solenoid. (I really hate intermittent errors.)

Last time a solenoid broke on another car it was in the middle of winter. The check engine light identified it before it became too serious.

perry40 · August 2001

Just got my car back from the Service Dept.; a loose wiring connection was the cause of the illuminated Check Engine light. Fixed under warranty!

totiski · August 2001

got a 95 geo tracker and "check engine light" turned on at 50,000 miles. brought the car to the "american car care" auto repair shop that specialized on emission(that's what they advertised). checked the emission and cost $70.00/machine and $60.00/labor. couldn't find the problem, changed the plugs and wires. still the light on and paid $120.00. the boss told me that they have to take out the dashboard to look for the shorted wire. asked me to pay $60.00/hour. i said no with frustration! after 6 months, i met a backyard mechanic and told my problem. he went down under the dashboard and flickered a switch in just 5 seconds and the problem was solved!!! i gave him $20.00 but refuses and asked me to buy him a pack of cigarette.
my comment: i believe that the "american car care" shop is nothing but a piece of junk auto repair shop. with their big apparatus and claimed competent mechanics didn't know what they're doing.

scully9731 · August 2001

I just put my third engine control module in my truck for the third year in a row. My problem began when the "Check Engine" light came on. My battery would not stay charged. I took the truck to the shop in August 2000 and they said the alternator needed to be replaced. I put four alternators on the truck and the battery still would not stay charged. The battery finally was overcharged and had to be replaced in January along with the starter, transmission, and catalytic converter. The truck worked fine until March when the "Oil Light" would flash on as I turned a corner. I took it to the dealer who said the sensor needed to be replaced. I check my oil on a weekly basis and declined the $75 repair. In the meantime, my power doorlocks completely stop working and then the driver's side door lock began working again on its own. The passenger's side door will unlock, but not lock. By July, the battery would not stay charged again, so I returned it to the dealer. It needed a new alternator (do we see a pattern here?). After replacing the alternator and discovering that this was not the problem (I told them so!!) they decided that the engine control module needed to be replaced, again. The computer was tested outside the truck and tested "bad". I also made them check the wiring harness for any shorts, especially between the alternator and the engine control module. I got my truck back July 18. Now my oil pressure gauge hits the bottom while I'm at an idle. As soon as I hit the gas, it goes back up. Has anyone else had any problems. I feel like the computer is still screwed up. PS - My AC fan no longer works now either. I haven't had a chance to check the fuse yet, but could this be related to the almight ECM too?

shemz · August 2001

I appreciate u guyses help in giving us suggestions on how to fix this common frustrating problem. Thanks..i have a 1995 Nissan Altima GXE and the light when i first bought it went on i decided to put higher gas..didnt work @ first but then took out the - wire of battery for about 2 hrs. it worked!!!. Thanx iam glad i came here.
(does anyone know a website that is free for me to check my cars history plz e-mail me): shemz@onebox.com
i appreciate u allzez help

dengle2 · August 2001

Called the dealer about my engine light being on. He says if its running normal its probably on at the service interval, but the dealer wants $75.00 to check it out. Is there anyway to have the light reset so that I can get my car smogged? Its been on for several hundred miles and no change in the way the car has been running.

Thanks!

zueslewis · August 2001

2 lights we're talking about - if your car is equipped with "maintenance due" light, you can probably reset the light through instructions in your owner's manual. The maintenance light should have no effect on an emissions inspection. If the light is a "check engine" or "service engine soon" or "SES" light, that's another story. The "service engine soon" light is actually not a maintenance light and relates to the emissions sensor just like the "check engine" light.

In the case of the latter, you will need to have the car diagnosed - your dealer is not the only place, though. A reputable repair shop (make sure they have Mazda diagnostic adapters for their scanner) can check out your car, probably cheaper than the dealer and if repairs are necessary, those will be cheaper, too. Good luck.

shemz · August 2001

this is a common problem and it may be sooooooooo cheap to fix..i have talked and reaserched alot..it could be the OS sensor or anything major but FIRST BEFOR TRYING ANYTING and wast ure money on junk TRY THIS PLZ IT WILL HELP BECAUSE IT HELPED ME AND IT should work because it WORKED for me:
1) Use higher gas octane (93) see what happens..
2)CHECK Your GAS CAP if it is not secure in and iz not clicked at least 3 times the eng. light will come on!!!!(sensores)
3) Take out the negative wire in ure battery for about 2 hours or so...(this is what helped!!!)...This strategy should reset ure engine light and all the electronics in the car.
4)Do tune up change oil and spark plugs and all
5) be patient and calm.....you will feel releived after the light is OFF!
GOOD LUCK!!!!

shemz · August 2001

Did anybody try my way of turning off the engine light?????? i dont see no response so iam just curiouse...

0patience · August 2001

By removing the battery for two hours, you are probably resetting the problem, but the trouble code is still stored in the ECM.
Now, if the light turns off, who cares if the trouble code is still stored, right?
You will when a real problem arises and your mechanic spends that extra time, which you will pay for, looking for that phantom trouble code.

Do it right, repair the problem. If it is the fuel cap, that is fine. There are many scanner programs available for laptops and hand held scanners that are available on the market for resonable costs, around what it would cost you to go to a shop a couple times.

soobriety · August 2001

I have a 98 Pontiac Transport that I bought from a local dealer. I have had to replace the transmission, a wheel bearing, fuel pump and power window mechanism. The horn fuse has blown (no pun) 3 times. In March the check engine light came on and I brought it to the dealer- the loose gas cap was the culprit. A few days later again the light- again a cap and this time they cleared it for free. That same day, it returned. I brought it back again and that was when the new fuel pump was put in. I drove off and it took 2 days this time but there it was. So back I went- and this time they told me my fuel injectors were filthy and they would clean them for the low low price of $420. I said no thanks. The guy said I could use fuel additives and that might help buy wouldn't solve my problem. So I did that and it did help, but the light remained. A friend of mine who works on the county vehicles here used stuff from work that they use to run through the tanks to clear the injectors. It helped but the light remained.

Five days ago, my muffler went. I had to attend 2 funerals over the weekend, so I brought it to a Cole as soon as I could. They had to order the part of course, but said they'd wrap it so it would be less noisy until it arrived. The technician noticed that there was a hole in the heat sheild- and behind that was my gas tank, which had a golf ball sized hole in it. They would not even start it to get it out of the garage. He said he was amazed it had not ignited. What should I do? I'm getting it fixed, but a muffler blowing through the heat sheild? doesn't that defeat the purpose of the thing?
I'm afraid to get into the van with my son even after it is fixed! Any ideas?

tason67 · August 2001

Some of life's hardest lessons are the most expensive ones too. You have just learned that buying a used car can be very treacherous. Did your van come with some kind of warranty? Did you have it inspected by a mechanic before you bought it? Take all your service records to the dealer's sales manager and see if they will buy the car back (This has a snowball's chance in Arizona of working, but try) Check with your local attorney general about lemon laws and see if there are any legal avenues available to you. In any case, you should sell the van, with full disclosure. You'll probably lose money on the deal but this Transport is a money pit that will suck you dry. Good luck and Thank God that your tank didn't ignite.

lbthedog · August 2001

You've got an OBD2 vehicle. In other words, onboard diagnostics. You cannot clear the codes by disconnecting the battery. The light will go out after a set number of ignition cycles but only if the reason for the code has been repaired or the parameters for setting the code have changed. Such as the gas cap being loose, if you would have kept on going, it would have entually gone out but it would have taken a long time. The hole in the heat shield is a bit confusing. I doubt that the exhaust burned a hole in it. I also doubt the the gas tank was anywhere close to exploding. It is a plastic tank but the plastic used is quite thick and is also layered. Your muffler shop should have easily been able to fabricate some sort of reasonable repair but it looks like they are trying to mine a bit of gold. I also cannot understand the outrageous quote for an injector cleaning. The proper procedure for cleaning involves disconnecting the fuel pump ( removing a fuse or relay) and connecting a pressurized supply of solvent to the fuel rail thru the service port. Roughly five to ten bucks of cleaner and about an hour labor. Guess the real crooks aren't robbing banks any more, they're working on cars.

bburton1 · August 2001

Have a 97 Accord I4. After removing the fuse which provides power to the ECM to remove a check engine light notification, will the ECM continue to store that code in the ECM. Reason I want to know is because if that is the case, when I go to the state vehicle inspection station, do not want to "fail" their little testing routine. In WI they connect to the car's digital info port.

Anybody know if the codes stay in the ECM after it has been manually cleared.

thanks

soobriety · August 2001

I assure you that the hole was indeed through my tank's plastic exterior. I could see into the tank with the use of a light. There was a leak mark on the underside of the tank. I have asked that all the parts be returned to me- tank, shield, etc. I am persuing it with Pontiac and have called NHTSA to file a report. I wanted to see if anyone had ever heard of this happening before. I am also planning on ridding myself of this van one way or the other. I'll keep you posted to see what comes of it. I thank you for your input.

jgmilberg · August 2001

The hole in your tank is probably the cause of the light. When they pulled the code it told them it was an emissions problem, and if the gas cap is good, and on tight, it is time to look for other things. I don't know why they did not inspect the lines, filter, or tank, although this is the first time I have heard of a hole in a plastic tank. My guess is a piece of the exhaust system fell off and got kicked back up from the road, punching the hole in the heat shield and the tank. It may be worth turning it in to your auto insurance company to pay for the repair. No matter what they tell you thew tank CANNOT be repaired. You can get a used one from a bone yard, probably much less that the dealer would want. Have the exhaust shop do the exhaust, and the dealer or radiator shop handle the tank. Sorry about your misfortune with the van, let us know how it turns out.

steveb70 · August 2001

I have a 1994 Chevy Corsica (3.1L V6) with 62,400 miles on it. The Service Engine Soon light has been on for several weeks now. I had an independent mechanic check the codes and I could have sworn he said it turned up Code "60" - or an EGR valve problem. Yet, in the Chilton's book, I can't find a code 60.

Anyway, I replaced the EGR valve with a used one from an engine with 33,000 miles on it. The SES light came back on, however. I am beginning to suspect an O2 sensor. It looks like there is only one, and it is on the lower rear of the engine (on the exhaust manifold, to the left of the EGR connection).

For the mechanics out there and for those of you who may be familiar with this car, how difficult is it to replace the O2 sensor? It seems hard to get to and I can't see where the wires go from the sensor. Do the replacement sensors come with the complete wiring harness, or do you have to splice and crimp the new part to the old wires?

Thanks for any help,
Steve

sanders7 · August 2001

I have a 98 5.0 v8 Mercury Mountaineer,39k miles, that will not idle on startup. This will happen maybe once a week and may happen 2 or 3 times in row, then it will start fine for several days. This has been going on for weeks now, yesterday it failed to idle and after a few miles the check engine light came on. Soon after it started running fine and runs fine today. Sometimes when it does this I can pat the gas padel once or twice then it will run fine. Any idea what the problem could be? Thanks

steveb70 · August 2001

Just a note, that I was wrong about the code my mechanic pulled off the computer. It was actually code 77, which points to the 3rd solenoid on the EGR valve. This was prior to my replacing the valve.

Today, I took a tip both from this forum and a parts shop, and disconnected the negative cable on the battery for several hours. On the way home from work, the light did not come on. So, we'll see.

Steve

alcan · August 2001

Under closed throttle decel, the ECM cycles each of the 3 EGR solenoids and looks for the drop in manifold vacuum which each should cause. If no vacuum drop for 3 consecutive cycles it sets code 77. Possible causes include defective solenoid, stuck solenoid pintle, wiring concerns, or (and this is a common one) one of the 3 EGR recirculation passages in the intake manifold blocked with carbon buildup. The passages are different sizes, with the smallest naturally being most succeptible to blockage. The valve itself may indeed be defective but the ECM doesn't know that, only that there wasn't a manifold vacuum drop when one should have occured. Hence the code 77.

steveb70 · August 2001

Thanks alcan. Great information. I do have a question regarding the below statement:

"Possible causes include defective solenoid, stuck solenoid pintle, wiring concerns, or (and this is a common one) one of the 3 EGR recirculation passages in the intake manifold blocked with carbon buildup."

So, if it's a stuck solenoid pintle, is there a way to correct this? Second, is there any way for me or a mechanic to somehow clear the recirculation passages without removing the intake manifold from the engine? Is there some type of an fuel additive that may do this?

Thanks again,
Steve

soobriety · August 2001

Just so you all know, I took my van back to the garage that replaced my gas tank to have it inspected etc before I went back to the dealer to fight it out with them. Guess what? The van had the wrong spark plugs in it... can you stand it? So I can add that to my long list of stuff to chat with the dealer about. Any ideas? would this have caused the exhaust to run hot?

sbchoi · August 2001

I got the check engine light on and found that
the code is 8. Can I know what that code means?

alcan · August 2001

The solenoids/pintles operation can be verified by removing the EGR valve and cycling them with 2 jumper wires. There are 4 wiring connectors, 1 common 12V feed and 3 individual solenoid grounds (that's how the ECM controls them, by toggling the grounds on and off). Use a 10 amp fused jumper to supply the common feed and a ground wire to each of the other 3 connectors individually. Make and break the circuits at the valve's wiring connector, not the battery (eliminates sparks at the battery). A sticking pintle can usually be corrected with throttle body cleaner or equivalent as you cycle the solenoid on and off. Cleaning of the recirculation passages does not require manifold removal, it's done at the point where the valve attaches to the manifold.

allchecks · September 2001

I've read the prior posts; I have a clue. Check engine light, code 32. Chilton says check vacuum hoses and electrical connections first, if all OK, look at ERG valve. Vehicle has 119K. Anyone with experience with this type vehicle? Could be common, lots of them on road. If air hose from top of engine to air intake does not fit well, allowing lots of air to leak in, could this be a factor. I hate taking the engine cover off and would like to know as much as I can before I do. Thanks.

richez2000 · September 2001

I had my fuel line and fuel injector cleaned the other day. After purging a cloud of blue smoke, my SES light came on. The service tech told me that it would stay on for a few days and that it was due to the cleaning agent they used. He told me to come back in a few days and they would reset it if it was still on. Does this make sense to anyone or is it a bunch of bull? Is anything really wrong? I really don't feel like I should pay for this if additional repairs are due. Thanks.

acuraowner · September 2001

Sounds normal, I had the "Induction service" done on my Integra and it set my Check Engine light. It went out about 20 minutes later.

It was probably a combination of everything that was happening. Like the 400rpm idle, the cloud of white smoke that probably confused the hell out of the O2 sensor and misfiring.

Check Engine light

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