Maintenance Costs

jerryg5 · October 1999

Does anyone know if there has there ever been a comprehensive study done on the total cost of ownership of US made (Ford, Chev, Dodge, etc.) vs. foreign made(Honda, Toyota, Nissan, etc.)vehicles,considering the original purchase price, repair costs, operating costs, etc? I'm talking 4-door sedans & not the exotic high performance models. It seems that everytime I take my Nissan Sentra in for repair work at an independent shop they have to get parts from the dealer because they are not available as aftermarket parts. Consequently I have to pay dealer retail prices plus the repair shop mark-up for parts (they say they can't get discounts on parts bought through the car manufacturer). This seems like a double wammy. Are there more aftermarket parts available (at lower prices) for US made cars that there are for foreign made cars? This entire issue has always been very perplexing to me.

dickenson1 · November 1999

Where do I find reliable information about the mechanical serviceability of four cylinder Ford, Chevy, and Toyota pickups. Has anyone had any personal experience with any of the new small pickups? I am in the market for a new one.

bcle · November 1999

I am doing a speech for school about why people should buy American cars over Foreign cars. Is there anyone that can help me with the maintance facts and reliability. Cheverolet, Nissan, Toyota, Pontiac, Volkswagon, Cadillac, and Ford.

Thanks alot,
Brandon

clintonjohn · November 1999

brandon, one of the issues you might face in your report is that there hardly is a true "american" or "japanese" or "german" car any more. Toyotas, hondas, bmw and i believe mercedes are all being assembled in the US. in fact, as far as reliability goes, supposedly there is no perceptible difference between the US built toyota camry versus the japanese built. i suppose you could look at j d powers analysis, but i think that is just initial quality, not long term quality. just about any high end car should look good initially, but do you think a jaguar will hold up as well as a lexus after 5 years? consumer reports gives initial new car assessments, but also provides info on good used car bets. just a few avenues to explore.

dhanley · December 1999

Go look at intellichoice ( www.intellichoice.com ) . It will tell you what you can expect to pay for upkeep, and gives this info free on the 'web for older cars. It is an invaluable resource.

giselle · December 1999

I am wondering how to get information about long-term maintenance and repair costs for vehicles.

I find the five year costs at www.intellichoice.com to be invaluable, however, I would like to know how to project these costs out to years 6-10 and 11-15. Do any of you have any suggestions? I am alarmed by the different repair costs for certain model years. For example, the 1997 VW Golf's combined 5-year maintenance & repair costs are $8670, but the
1998 VW Golf's combined 5-year costs are $6372.
That's a pretty big difference.

I have a 1988 Honda Accord that was virtually trouble-free for the first 9 years. The following year I spent over $4K on repairs and replacements. My theory is that Japanese cars
become more expensive with age than domestic cars. I would like to avoid these very high maintenance and repair costsin the future.

Do any of you have any information that might help me to verify my theory? As I am a tightwad and I intend to keep my next vehicle for at least a decade, I would like to get a vehicle that will not become extremely expensive to maintain as it enters its second decade. It seems that a 2wd S10 pickup might be a better deal on the whole than another Japanese economy car or a Vw Golf (which I lust after, but can't bring myself to purchase).

I hope that I am not violating any copyright laws by listing the following 1998 combined 5-year maintenance & repair costs:

S10 2wd: $4519
Saturn : $4629
Nissan pickup 2wd: $4742
Civic: $5218
Ranger 2wd: $5618
Corolla: $5807
Tacoma: $6004
Escort: $6176
Tercel: $6274
Golf: $6372

ccotenj · December 1999

re: 4K of maintenance on your car when you look at it over a 10 year span was pretty darn good. that's only 400 bucks a year.

almost any car is going to get expensive as it gets old whether it's japanese/american/mars-ian. parts wear out. what you really should consider is how solid the car will be in 10 years AFTER you've done all the repairwork (i.e. how durable it is). if you save 2K in maintenance costs, but it rattles all over the place and rides like a tin can did you really save anything vs. having something that is still pretty solid, but cost you somewhat more to maintain?

the repair costs that you posted have a spread of 1800 dollars over 5 years. that's 360 bucks a year. not a whole lot, really in the grand scheme of things.

remember using maintenance costs without figuring in durability when making a purchase is being penny wise and pound foolish.

good luck.
-Chris

giselle · January 2000

Thanks for your input Chris, you are absolutely correct. I was assuming that cars that didn't need much in way of repairs and replacements would be durable, too. I have to admit that my Honda still looks pretty good after all this time while most 11 year old cars do not. I haven't seen any ratings for durability.

So what's durable? Do you have any suggestions? I would think that every vehicle I posted figures for could be considered to be a "rattletrap." They are all pretty much low-budget vehicles.

ccotenj · January 2000

it's hard to quantify durability. certain makes of cars are legendary for lasting forever. others don't. most places (like whereever you got your list from) only think in terms of straight maintenance costs.

you also have to consider what type of driving/how many miles you do. if you only put 5k a year on a car, it's a different story than for someone like me who approaches 50k per year.

a lot of it depends on what you can afford/want to spend. if we look at the maintenance costs listed, there's really not that much difference between them all (about 1 car payment per year over 5 years). also, you listed trucks/cars together. you have to narrow down what type of vehicle you want first. do you want a sports sedan? do you want a truck? what are your needs?
frankly, most cars built today (el cheapos excepted), are relatively durable. will a s10 be as durable as a bimmer? no. you are paying for the extra durability of the bimmer upfront. but the s10 (or the civic, or any of them) may serve your purposes for now. also consider that 10 years from now your life may have changed drastically, and you may want/need a different/new vehicle. that's something that's hard to anticipate and plan for.

i guess my basic opinion is that you should find what you like, buy it, and don't worry too much about the other stuff. if you spend some time and read through various discussion threads here about the cars you are looking at, you can get an idea if any of them are "problem children" cars.

good luck.

-Chris

tone40 · January 2000

When I wash my black car I always get water streak/drying streaks. I use a decent wax. I have tried drying cloths of cotton diapers, baby clothes, fluffy towels and chamois. Yet the streaks continue. Any suggestions?

pat455 · January 2000

Washing and waxing cars has been discussed at great length in several topics here. If you do a search on "wax" using the feature at left, you will find all of them.

That will give you a daunting amount to read, I guarantee! :-)

It is difficult to tell from your post whether the problem is with the drying, the water, or the wax.

Many people only trust high quality white bath towels that are 100% cotton and made in the USA. I have seen tips about washing a section at a time, then immediately drying it. Also others have said to be sure to keep the entire car surface wet while washing to prevent spots and streaking, and then quickly dry everything going from the top down.

Hard water can also be a problem and some folks recommend water softeners.

It also could be that the wax is not completely buffed out which will leave streaks.

Black is a very difficult color to maintain, as I am sure you know.

If you can take the time, looking at the archived topics about wax could be very useful. Meanwhile, you will see that there are a couple of active topics about waxes where you might find some other helpful suggestions.

Good luck!

Pat
Community Leader/Maintenance & Repair Conference

bnormann · February 2000

I just bought a 15 year old car with 122,000 miles on it. It doesn't rattle or squeak at all. I had it up on a lift to do a pre-purchase-inspection and going up or coming down there was an eery silence as the the wheels came off/touched the ground. I have NEVER heard a car go up on a lift and not creak and groan.

It's mostly original, shocks were replaced and one motor mount. Transmission was rebuilt at 120,000.

The bad news: experts tell me it will cost ~~ $1,000 a year in maintenance costs and I better find a good ""Fritz"" to take care of it. Bad ""Fritzes"" abound and will raise the yearly maintenance cost, because they don't know what they are doing.

You may have guessed, but I just bought a 1985 Porsche 911. Here we go, I guess...

your new host, Bruce

am I in the right conference or what..?? {%^)

rs_petty · February 2000

Ship it to Herr Ruf for a complete rebuild. Tell him I sent you. Plan on recovering your maintenance costs over the next 60 years because that is about what it will cost. Congratulations - I miss mine - sometimes.

paul_francis · February 2000

Looking at purchasing a new TL. My dealer in SC gives the service schedule to be .04 a mile for the first 120,000 miles. The first year, based on 15K miles would be $489. This would include 4 oil, filter changes, at 7K, balance and rotate tires of applicable, inspect the following: brakes, driveshaft boots, steering gear box, suspension components,tires, undercarriage and do oil change. At 11,250 repeat oil change. At 15K repeat all service done at 7k but adjust parking brake, clean air filter, inspect:hoses & connections, exhaust system, fuel lines, Lub. locks & hinges, road. This seems high to me for a lot of inspections. I may be getting ready to spend almost 30K on a car. Am I making a lot about nothing? Advice appreciated! Paul

lroux · May 2000

I have a 95' Cirrus, as of January 2000 to the end of April 2000 I have spent close to $1300 in maintenance.
From getting a Tune Up $550,
getting my front brakes replace (again) $200,
replacing the right tire rod $250,
AC (which I have put off for 2 years, $120 and replacing battery $100.
This vehicle has more paperwork then my husband's 86' Ford Truck.

vac23 · May 2000

tune up-what exactly was done? replaced spark plugs, wires, air/fuel filters only=way too much $$
front brakes-how many miles did you get out of the old set? If you got about 25-30k miles out of them , then that's avg.
right tie rod-I just had one replaced & costed me only $130 w/an alignment
AC-what was done? recharge? condenser replaced?
battery-if the old one was OE then it was about time to replace it. $100 sounds ok if it was a quality brand

lroux · June 2000

On the tune up all they did was change to spark plugs, wires and the filter. I know now from others that was way too much!
I have 94,000 miles on the car and to had to replace the front brakes twice, I really think the 95' Chrysler Cirrus has some major problems with it's front end.
I just now again brought it to another garage to find out I need a new alternator $200 - ok price but I hear people say that is too soon for the alternator to go. I don't know but I really think it is time to do a trade in.
95' Chrysler Cirrus is not best for Maintenance.

I will never buy or recommend a Chrysler Vehicle.

divavolv · July 2000

Hope you found 'Good Fritz' and have budgeted for the 911 maintanence. I had a Porsche go in for a tune-up. The dealer called to ask if windshield wiper fluid should be filled up. Of course, how silly! Then I saw the bill - $100 for windshield wiper fluid!! Sticker shock developed a whole new meaning.

ehopkins1 · July 2000

I am seeking information on the maintenance cost of this car with reference to the Miller Cycle engine. I have been told the timing belt and even the spark plug replacement is very costly. Any information pursuant to maintenance costs is appreciated.

sidell · August 2000

I took my Cherokee in to the dealer last week because I received an airbag recall notice and I had a lot of warranty work to be done (oil leaking onto the engine, nosies coming from rear wheel, freon leak, etc). When the service rep asked if I wanted the 30,000 mile service, I asked how much it cost -- he replied that it was about $100 (cant remember the exact amount) and I said ok. I also authorized a brake job.

Three days later the service rep told me that not all the warranty work was done -- they'd been waiting two days for a part that might not come in for another week. Since I was renting a car, I decided to pick the car up. The rep told me the bill for the brake job was $189.00. He didnt mention any other charges and I figured they hadn't done the 30,000 mile service.

Imagine my surprise when I picked it up and the total bill was $621.00!! I was charged $432.00 for the 30,000 miles service. I had just had an oil change 400 miles ago (synthetic oil) and had the transmission serviced less than 5,000 miles ago but I was charged $128.00 for an oil filter/plug and $167.00 for oil, transmission fluid and freon. And, although the service rep told me I needed new tires badly and I told him I was going to get them as soon as I picked the car up., I was charged $73.00 for balance and alignment. My protests about paying unnecessary parts/work did no good.

Has anyone else ever experienced this kind of treatment?

vac23 · August 2000

Did you sign a work authorization order? Some states requires one to be signed by the customer before any work is done. It lists what is to be done & an estimate. If your state requires it & the dealer didn't give one to you to sign then you may have a case.

armtdm · August 2000

You must be specific, never ever give them carte blanche. List exactly what you want done and get an estimate. Never ever say tune up, opens up the flood gates to their pockets.

Cooper · August 2000

Just reading postings over lunch ...

Unfortunately, I think that we (general public) have disliked car repair costs forever. I started doing simple repairs when I was in school, to save money and the cost was too high. Well, it's 25 years later and look what's changed ... I do what I can to save money and costs are too high (not to mention the unnecessary work).

I have two VWs. Yes, they now have the "old-fashioned" cartridge filter that's not readily available at mass market distributors yet (i.e., KMart, Wal-Mart, etc). But, some dealers will sell them at a reduced rate, and they are also available from other places (like Rapid Parts).

I've even started doing more, since a dealer charged my wife $19.73 per spark plug. Yes, you read that right; $120 for plugs for her VR6. We had that charge removed, especially as the plugs in the car had only 10,000 miles on them. That, alone, was motivation enough to buy the grossly overpriced spark plug wire remover tool from the dealer and install Bosch Patinum +4 plugs ($6.95 ea.) on both our cars.

Also, a lifetime K&N air filter will pay for itself several times over.

butch11 · September 2000

You now know this dealer is a crook. Not all dealers are crooks-but some and maybe most are. Most maintenance can be done by virtually anyone-do my own because it is much faster and much cheaper.

They will do the work for a fraction of a dealer charges and if they are honest, will not fix what is not broken.

Chalk this one up to a learning process-hope you told the dealer where to go and what to do when they got there.

butch11 · September 2000

Sorry-I meant to say-find a local garage that does repair work - ask around there are lots of local repair people who are honest and know their business. Find one and stick with them-or get a manual and do your own maintenance.

wheelles · September 2000

I own a 1992 Toyota Celica ST that I purchased new
and drove for a couple of years. It currently has
17000 miles on it as it's been in storage for
nearly six years. All fluids were replaced when it
entered the garage in 1994, as well as fuel
stabilizer the following year. It gets started
about every other month but hasn't been on the
street in over five years. What maintenance
problems can I anticipate next Spring when I plan
on putting it back on the street as my primary
transportation vehicle?

vac23 · September 2000

the first thing you should do is change all the fuilds again. as far as long term damage can't really tell.

crankky · September 2000

Hey y'all,

I recently bought a 98 Millenia base (premium
pkg.) that will need its 30k service soon.

I called the local Mazda dealer and was quoted
$340. A reputable independant shop was about $300.
However, he mentioned a couple of things that I
probably will pass on (air filter, I can do that;
rotate tires, not needed, just put new ones on last
week).

Do those sound like resonable prices? Any reason
why I should go to the dealer for this?

Also, the owners manual indicates that a lot of
the items are to be "inspected". However, both
shops said that they would replace all fluids and
filters as part of this service. So, what is
actually necessary? Am I being scr$%#wed?

Thanks!

vac23 · September 2000

I usually follow the manuel's service intervals. If it's something i can do (change oil, filter plugs etc) i'll do them myself. if it something I can't or don't want to do (chekc valve clerance etc) then I'll just bring it somewhere to get it done.

armtdm · September 2000

If auto trans you may wish to drain and replace the fluid. If a plug you can do this yourself. No need at 30,000 to have it flushed or drop the screen/filter. Air filter, yourself. Perhaps a fuel filter but these days they say 60,000 for those but only cost $15-$50 depending on filter and where it is. Nothing else needed.

redsox5 · September 2000

About three weeks ago, I had (4)new tires put on my Maxima. I was pleased with the service, so when my brakes started acting up, I went back to the same shop. Turns out the brakes were o.k., but they recommended I replace front and rear struts and boots to the tune of $730. While this includes an alignment, it seemed a little expensive. Anybody know if this is a reasonable estimate? Thanks.

johnyoo · October 2000

I don't know how great it is, but maybe it'll give you an idea.

Carpoint www.carpoint.msn.com has a repair estimate tool. Just go to make a personal auto page for your car and you can get a price estimate for common repairs

armtdm · October 2000

If this car has under 100,000 miles it is extremely unlikely that it needs front end parts, especially if you were not noticing any problems. Possible rip off here and get a second opinion.
Not sure on the price but get that second opinion.

armtdm · October 2000

Sorry, follow up. The maxima does not have rear struts. Replace the front boots only if cracked and they are about $75 for two. Rear does not have boots. MAxima is front wheel drive 95 and later, no struts or boots on the rear. Struts should last 100,000

armtdm · October 2000

Okay, basically the same but I always thought the front shocks on front wheel drive cars were struts and the rears were shocks? Shcoks much easier t replace then struts which require the special tools. Still, if he went in for a perceived brake problem it is unlikely that the sturs/shocks/boots are the cause

fariborz · October 2000

Go and test drive a new car similar to yours. If you feel suspension travel, feel, or noise is much more improved than yours, then replace your shocks.

Not all gradual wear are noticeble. I would not buy shocks or struts just because the service advisor says so. Those people want to sell you whatever they can. There is no certain mileage for shock replacement either. If you do a lot of highway driving, you probably never need to replace your shocks/struts.

Go to each corner of you car, and push down hard two-three times and let go. The corner should bounce maybe twice and stop. If continues to bounce you need new shocks/struts. You always change those in pair, front or rear axle.

pat455 · November 2000

That is an excellent question for our Finance, Warranty and Insurance Conference.

You can click on that link to get there.

Pat
Community Leader/Maintenance & Repair Conference

viswas · December 2000

I just bought a 1996 Honda Accord LX (4 cyl) AT. The vehicle has 33000 miles on it and is due for the 30K maintenance (some call it the "30K tuneup").

A Honda dealer has quoted a price of $405 (incl. labor) for the service, and says it will include among other things an inspection of brakes, brake fluid, xmission fluid, distributor cap, drive axle, tire rotation, etc.

Is this a reasonable quote ?

I am new to this area and am yet to find a (reliable) mechanic here. So, what is the best thing to do ?

pat455 · December 2000

Actually, we have a better topic here in this conference for your question. Here is a link:

Honda Accord Problems (Topic #1398)

There are several folks hanging out in that topic (including an experienced Honda tech) who can probably advise you.

Good luck.

Pat
Community Leader/Maintenance & Repair Conference

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