Looking at new 2016 Outback, need some advice if possible.

carrook · February 2016

Hello all,

I test drove a 2.5 limited 2016 outback yesterday. Nice car overall. I'm leaving a Buick Regal and looking for something to allow more gear for kayaking, fishing, biking, camping, etc with the kids. I don't intend to tow much, if anything, but possibly down the road we would have a kayak trailer to tow. Doubtful but always a chance for a 18 foot fishing boat, but we have an Enclave I could equip if needed.

I'm thinking a new 2016, but I have many questions. I'm in Metro Detroit, Michigan.

1. Looking online it seems most dealers quote for a bit below MSRP, so I'm guessing getting the invoice price is pretty typical and basically as low as you could possibly go?

2. Is it true that Subaru doesn't offer rebates and such? That is per the deal I was at yesterday. Is it just the add ons and extras that you can negotiate on pricing?

3. I might lease to start, with the intent to buy if I like the car as much as I expect. This worked out well in our Enclave overall. I was told by the dealer that the residual on a 24 mth and a 36 mth lease are similar so you are better off getting a 36 mth lease. Is this true?

4. Is there much difference between the 2016 or 2015? Sometimes dealers will discount old model years so I might look for that option. Or even a possible used 2014, maybe.

5. V6 or no? It seems the 2.5 is adequate, though I'm used to a V6 or my recent 2.0 turbo Regal. Also, it seems the V6 doesn't give much more for towing capacity. So, is it worth it? There is only one dealer around with a V6 in stock that I hope to drive this weekend. Is there a long term quality difference between the V6 and the V4?

6. How do you figure out lease residuals and money factors to determine if they are quoting a proper lease rate?

7. I was just planning the basic model (probably the Limited for the leather, but not certain yet) but no sunroof, Nav, Eye thing. I might get the tow hitch, all weather mats, all weather mat in the hatch area and on the back of the back seats, and the homelink mirror (surprised that isn't standard). Any other options you feel are very convenient to have?

Thank you for your help. This would be my first Subaru. Looking forward to getting it dirty.

Michaell · February 2016

carrook said:
Hello all,

I test drove a 2.5 limited 2016 outback yesterday. Nice car overall. I'm leaving a Buick Regal and looking for something to allow more gear for kayaking, fishing, biking, camping, etc with the kids. I don't intend to tow much, if anything, but possibly down the road we would have a kayak trailer to tow. Doubtful but always a chance for a 18 foot fishing boat, but we have an Enclave I could equip if needed.

I'm thinking a new 2016, but I have many questions. I'm in Metro Detroit, Michigan.

1. Looking online it seems most dealers quote for a bit below MSRP, so I'm guessing getting the invoice price is pretty typical and basically as low as you could possibly go?

2. Is it true that Subaru doesn't offer rebates and such? That is per the deal I was at yesterday. Is it just the add ons and extras that you can negotiate on pricing?

3. I might lease to start, with the intent to buy if I like the car as much as I expect. This worked out well in our Enclave overall. I was told by the dealer that the residual on a 24 mth and a 36 mth lease are similar so you are better off getting a 36 mth lease. Is this true?

4. Is there much difference between the 2016 or 2015? Sometimes dealers will discount old model years so I might look for that option. Or even a possible used 2014, maybe.

5. V6 or no? It seems the 2.5 is adequate, though I'm used to a V6 or my recent 2.0 turbo Regal. Also, it seems the V6 doesn't give much more for towing capacity. So, is it worth it? There is only one dealer around with a V6 in stock that I hope to drive this weekend. Is there a long term quality difference between the V6 and the V4?

6. How do you figure out lease residuals and money factors to determine if they are quoting a proper lease rate?

7. I was just planning the basic model (probably the Limited for the leather, but not certain yet) but no sunroof, Nav, Eye thing. I might get the tow hitch, all weather mats, all weather mat in the hatch area and on the back of the back seats, and the homelink mirror (surprised that isn't standard). Any other options you feel are very convenient to have?

Thank you for your help. This would be my first Subaru. Looking forward to getting it dirty.

Let me try to answer your questions - both as a moderator and as an owner of a 2015 Outback 3.6R

1. Use the price tools - "make / model / year" pull downs at the top of the page - to get a price target. Subaru pricing is highly regional. More expensive here in Colorado; it's possible that with all the domestic dealers in Detroit, bigger discounts may be available for you.
2. Subaru is on a major roll, sales wise, so they don't need a lot in the way of incentives.
3. For Subaru, 36 months is a better lease term than 24 months.
4. 2015 saw a major redesign, inside and out. So, not much difference between the '15 and the '16. Subarus hold their value very well, so you may not see as much of a delta in pricing as you might think.
5. Our Outback is my wife's daily driver - the 2.5i was not powerful enough for her (of course, we live at 6000 feet, so naturally aspirated engines are down on power to begin with). We love the flat 6 and it gets decent mileage for a car it's size. We saw almost 28 MPG on a 2000 mile road trip last year, fully loaded.
6. I have those numbers - what trim, lease term and miles per year are you looking for?
7. Our 3.6R is fully loaded with all the tech goodies. Not sure we could ever go back if we decide to get something new. But, I do understand the appeal of a car with less tech - and, less things to go wrong.

Good luck and keep us posted!

carrook · February 2016

Thanks for the reply.

I just test drove a Limited. It's snowing crazy right now and my old Sonata was having a hard time. Great time and great impression to drive an Outback and it handled well, even fun.

Numbers. They quoted me the following on a 2016 Limited, base trim with: all weather floor mats, homelink mirror, rear cargo net, remote engine start.

MSRP: 32,420.00 (incl $850 dest charge)

Sale price: 30,729.00
Trade value: $2,500 (too low for me, but info)

Advanced pmt $310.45 (first mth lease payment)
Upfront Charges $248.00 (doc fee)

Residual Value $20,100.46

Lease payments on 36 month 12,000 miles: $310.45.

Said that included taxes, and the Edmunds Auto Lease Calculator using those numbers and a MF of 0.00105 I get the same number. I'm not sure where to I could work to get that lower, other than get a better trade value or sell the trade myself.

Purchase price at 60 mths at 2.19% was 502.12 based on the same numbers.

Is the residual value based upon MSRP, or agreed purchase price?

carrook · February 2016

I'm contemplating the packages. I'd like to get the push button and passive entry system, but I don't care at all about the Navigation (that's was iPhones are for), and the moonroof is okay, but I'm not sure it's worth $2,000 for that package. I don't know what to think on the Eyesight feature, I've only heard people complain about it and have not driven a car with it myself.

I am thinking on adding the plastic floor and back seat covers for the luggage area, maybe the rear bumper skid plate and the wheel well covers/plates (just because it looks rugged), I live near Detroit so I need the locked lugnuts, maybe the hitch. Although, he said that I could add any of those to any Outback at any time, even years later as they are all added at the dealer.

Michaell · February 2016

carrook said:
Thanks for the reply.

I just test drove a Limited. It's snowing crazy right now and my old Sonata was having a hard time. Great time and great impression to drive an Outback and it handled well, even fun.

Numbers. They quoted me the following on a 2016 Limited, base trim with: all weather floor mats, homelink mirror, rear cargo net, remote engine start.

MSRP: 32,420.00 (incl $850 dest charge)

Sale price: 30,729.00
Trade value: $2,500 (too low for me, but info)

Advanced pmt $310.45 (first mth lease payment)
Upfront Charges $248.00 (doc fee)

Residual Value $20,100.46

Lease payments on 36 month 12,000 miles: $310.45.

Said that included taxes, and the Edmunds Auto Lease Calculator using those numbers and a MF of 0.00105 I get the same number. I'm not sure where to I could work to get that lower, other than get a better trade value or sell the trade myself.

Purchase price at 60 mths at 2.19% was 502.12 based on the same numbers.

Is the residual value based upon MSRP, or agreed purchase price?

36/12 lease numbers on the 2.5i Limited are 62% and .00105. Using your MSRP and sale price, I get $349/mo plus tax. My guess is they are using the trade equity as down payment to lower your payment. We don't recommend that; have the dealer cut you a check for the equity.

Head over to the 'real world trade in values' discussion to get more opinions on the trade value.

Residual is based on MSRP.

Michaell · February 2016

carrook said:
I'm contemplating the packages. I'd like to get the push button and passive entry system, but I don't care at all about the Navigation (that's was iPhones are for), and the moonroof is okay, but I'm not sure it's worth $2,000 for that package. I don't know what to think on the Eyesight feature, I've only heard people complain about it and have not driven a car with it myself.

I am thinking on adding the plastic floor and back seat covers for the luggage area, maybe the rear bumper skid plate and the wheel well covers/plates (just because it looks rugged), I live near Detroit so I need the locked lugnuts, maybe the hitch. Although, he said that I could add any of those to any Outback at any time, even years later as they are all added at the dealer.

I love the push button start; I'm hoping to get it on my next car.

I also have found the Eyesight functionality to be quite useful, especially the adaptive cruise control on road trips.

We also have the back of the rear seat covers and the mat for the luggage area; we moved to a new house last year and the Outback effectively doubled as a pickup truck with what we asked of it.

carrook · February 2016

They are applying the trade as a down payment. Why do you recommend against that?

Michaell · February 2016

carrook said:
They are applying the trade as a down payment. Why do you recommend against that?

If the car is stolen or totaled, you lose that money.

carrook · February 2016

Ah, I didn't consider that situation. What happens to the lease? Insurance usually has Gap coverage, so insurance just pays off the lease company to the extent owed, and my lease is canceled? Thus, if I prepay $2,500 toward lease payments and total it the next day, my $2,500 is gone?

Michaell · February 2016

carrook said:
Ah, I didn't consider that situation. What happens to the lease? Insurance usually has Gap coverage, so insurance just pays off the lease company to the extent owed, and my lease is canceled? Thus, if I prepay $2,500 toward lease payments and total it the next day, my $2,500 is gone?

That is correct ... GAP covers the remaining obligation of the lease, but excludes the down payment.

carrook · February 2016

Thanks for the help so far. I visited another dealer and got new info.

They quoted me a Limited 2.4 standard and 3.6 standard, both would need to be order. Price was $30,000 and $33,000 respectively. Then, they quoted a Limited 2.4 with the top option package (nav, moon, eyesight, keyless), plus all weather floor mats, rear cargo net, dimming mirrors, remote start, wheel locks. MSRP 35,271; invoice $32,548. Quote was $32,000 even. Need to purchase by the end of the month.

That seems a good deal on the instock car, even though I was not planning on the moon roof, eyesight or nav (I'd like the keyless entry though). Deal on the ordered vehicles is okay, not great. I drove a V6 Legacy since none of the dealers around here stock a V6 Outback, and I definitely like the V6. I'm not sure it's worth an extra $3,000, but it liked it. In fact I really liked the Legacy, which is basically the sedan version of the Outback, but I'd lose the main reason I'm looking at a Subaru, the cargo space versatility.

Questions:

1. Running the lease estimates the second dealer used a MF of .00155. NOT .00115. Is that a mistake, or do they get a choice?

2. Does the MF or the residual value change month to month, if so what is the trend? Should I expect better or worse lease rates once it rolls to March? I'm slow to make big decisions, but I hate to lose out on good deals.

3. The second dealer gave me a detailed print out, and it included an Acquisition fee of $595, Doc fee of $180. Any chance to get out of those fees? The first dealer showed a doc fee, but not an Acquisition fee (but his print out had little detail). The quoted lease fee on the in stock 2.5 with the option package (36/12) was $411. If I dropped the Acq fee and flip to .00115, it goes to $370. I would have been tempted to buy it on the spot at that lease price.

Still very undecided on the 2.5 vs 3.6. I really liked the 3.6 and I was disappointed when I got a Regal Turbo and didn't get the higher preforming engine, just for the fun factor. But the practical me says the 2.5 is more than adequate and there are few times you really can take advantage of the bigger engine.

Thanks again. Great site, great forum.

Michaell · February 2016

carrook said:
Thanks for the help so far. I visited another dealer and got new info.

They quoted me a Limited 2.4 standard and 3.6 standard, both would need to be order. Price was $30,000 and $33,000 respectively. Then, they quoted a Limited 2.4 with the top option package (nav, moon, eyesight, keyless), plus all weather floor mats, rear cargo net, dimming mirrors, remote start, wheel locks. MSRP 35,271; invoice $32,548. Quote was $32,000 even. Need to purchase by the end of the month.

That seems a good deal on the instock car, even though I was not planning on the moon roof, eyesight or nav (I'd like the keyless entry though). Deal on the ordered vehicles is okay, not great. I drove a V6 Legacy since none of the dealers around here stock a V6 Outback, and I definitely like the V6. I'm not sure it's worth an extra $3,000, but it liked it. In fact I really liked the Legacy, which is basically the sedan version of the Outback, but I'd lose the main reason I'm looking at a Subaru, the cargo space versatility.

Questions:

1. Running the lease estimates the second dealer used a MF of .00155. NOT .00115. Is that a mistake, or do they get a choice?

2. Does the MF or the residual value change month to month, if so what is the trend? Should I expect better or worse lease rates once it rolls to March? I'm slow to make big decisions, but I hate to lose out on good deals.

3. The second dealer gave me a detailed print out, and it included an Acquisition fee of $595, Doc fee of $180. Any chance to get out of those fees? The first dealer showed a doc fee, but not an Acquisition fee (but his print out had little detail). The quoted lease fee on the in stock 2.5 with the option package (36/12) was $411. If I dropped the Acq fee and flip to .00115, it goes to $370. I would have been tempted to buy it on the spot at that lease price.

Still very undecided on the 2.5 vs 3.6. I really liked the 3.6 and I was disappointed when I got a Regal Turbo and didn't get the higher preforming engine, just for the fun factor. But the practical me says the 2.5 is more than adequate and there are few times you really can take advantage of the bigger engine.

Thanks again. Great site, great forum.

1. Dealer is allowed to mark up the MF for more profit. You want the base MF, of course.
2. Yes the lease numbers can change each month. No clue if they will get better or worse.
3. Acquisition fee is standard with a lease and not negotiable. Doc fee can be negotiated out with a lower sales price.

carrook · February 2016

When do the March numbers come out? I'm working with a dealer and they quoted me a good price, but it's a special order (just no 3.6s around). And, since it would be ready until March, they tell me they cannot lock in the residual percent or the money factor based on current rates of the 62% and .00105. But, he said the residual and MF usually both go down so lease rate should be roughly the same.

Michaell · February 2016

carrook said:
When do the March numbers come out? I'm working with a dealer and they quoted me a good price, but it's a special order (just no 3.6s around). And, since it would be ready until March, they tell me they cannot lock in the residual percent or the money factor based on current rates of the 62% and .00105. But, he said the residual and MF usually both go down so lease rate should be roughly the same.

Should have new numbers later this week; I will agree with the salesperson in that the MF and residual usually move in tandem in the same direction.

carrook · March 2016

I am likely going to order a new build, a 3.6 limited maybe with the option package, maybe without. They are telling me the ETA for delivery is saying May, but...they sometimes arrive early. So I'm looking at either April or May for pickup. I'm told that the Residual and Lease MF have to be based no the month in which I pick up the vehicle, not month of order. Does that sound right? Also, If I estimate the lease payment today (dealer is giving me the 62% residual and .00105 MF) how much do you think the monthly would lease payment would change for April or May? They are saying very little, like a couple dollars up or down.

Michaell · March 2016

carrook said:
I am likely going to order a new build, a 3.6 limited maybe with the option package, maybe without. They are telling me the ETA for delivery is saying May, but...they sometimes arrive early. So I'm looking at either April or May for pickup. I'm told that the Residual and Lease MF have to be based no the month in which I pick up the vehicle, not month of order. Does that sound right? Also, If I estimate the lease payment today (dealer is giving me the 62% residual and .00105 MF) how much do you think the monthly would lease payment would change for April or May? They are saying very little, like a couple dollars up or down.

Not sure if Subaru gives customers the choice to 'lock in' the lease parameters. BMW does - can either be the month of order or the month of delivery.

My guess - and it's only a guess - is that the lease parameters will change slightly, but not so much to dramatically affect the size of your lease payment.

That said, I can't predict the future 2 or 3 months out.

carrook · March 2016

Thanks.

linymom · March 2016

carrook said:
I am likely going to order a new build, a 3.6 limited maybe with the option package, maybe without. They are telling me the ETA for delivery is saying May, but...they sometimes arrive early. So I'm looking at either April or May for pickup. I'm told that the Residual and Lease MF have to be based no the month in which I pick up the vehicle, not month of order. Does that sound right? Also, If I estimate the lease payment today (dealer is giving me the 62% residual and .00105 MF) how much do you think the monthly would lease payment would change for April or May? They are saying very little, like a couple dollars up or down.

Can I ask where you are? I ordered a new Limited on 2/28 and they told me 12-14 weeks, late May/early June. Wondering if that is accurate or if they hopefully overestimate so when the car comes in early, I'll be happy

I'm on Long Island, NY.

linymom · May 2016

just an update - my 2016 Outback Limited came in 7 weeks, not 12-14! I was very excited to hear it arrived, however, I was away on vacation! Now I'm back and scrambling to get my paperwork and money together so I can pick up my new car. Also, kind of forcing me to trade-in my old car, I thought that I would have the month of May to sell it. Would have been nice to have a more realistic date when I ordered the car...

Looking at new 2016 Outback, need some advice if possible.

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