2016 Toyota Mirai Long-Term Road Test - Introduction

Edmunds.comEdmunds.com Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 10,316
edited April 2016 in Toyota

image2016 Toyota Mirai Long-Term Road Test - Introduction

The 2016 Toyota Mirai joins our long-term fleet, where we'll test its performance, comfort, efficiency and the practicality of the hydrogen refueling network.

Read the full story here


Comments

  • brauchbrauch Member Posts: 19
    ugh, that styling!
  • iamthestigiamthestig Member Posts: 85
    This will make a nice addition to the fleet. I'm looking to see how it does compared to your long-term Prius and long-term Model X.
  • kirkhilles1kirkhilles1 Member Posts: 863
    Neat. Of course the whole "fuel is free" thing means that you aren't seeing the real cost of the Hydrogen Fuel. Its funny, I spent probably an hour awhile ago trying to just find out HOW MUCH fuel would cost. I read article after article hyping it but no details on what would be potential owners first questions. The reason? I read at least at one place that it'd be the equivalent of somewhere around $3.75 per gallon. Its very energy intensive to create the cells and inefficient. I don't see how it could be a viable long term solution.
  • throwbackthrowback Member Posts: 445
    Will be interesting to compare it's costs and driving vs the prius. How many H2 stations are there in Cali? Any near Edmunds HQ?
  • bankerdannybankerdanny Member Posts: 1,021
    kirkhilles1 said:

    Neat. Of course the whole "fuel is free" thing means that you aren't seeing the real cost of the Hydrogen Fuel. Its funny, I spent probably an hour awhile ago trying to just find out HOW MUCH fuel would cost. I read article after article hyping it but no details on what would be potential owners first questions. The reason? I read at least at one place that it'd be the equivalent of somewhere around $3.75 per gallon. Its very energy intensive to create the cells and inefficient. I don't see how it could be a viable long term solution.

    Hopefully time, experience, and sales volume combine to result in more fill up stations, lower cost, and increased efficiency. Remember when electric cars were homemade converted IC cars with engines replaced with electric motors loaded up with a few hundred pounds of conventional lead acid batteries, no climate controls except opening and closing the windows, and ranges of 50-60 miles?

    Now we have full size sedans capable of travelling 250 miles and recharging to 80% of capacity in 45 minutes, not overnight.

    You have to start somewhere and for fuel cell cars, this is it.
  • Eddie1971Eddie1971 Member Posts: 4
    what.....a.....queer...car...
  • sdiegosdiego Member Posts: 19
    Looked like a Lexus, but with the spindle grille moved to the sides
  • tlangnesstlangness Member Posts: 123
    throwback said:

    Will be interesting to compare it's costs and driving vs the prius. How many H2 stations are there in Cali? Any near Edmunds HQ?

    There are four stations within a five-mile radius, another eight stations within a 10-mile radius. Plenty of stuff close to where the staff works and lives (especially considering the range of the Mirai is much further than that).
  • throwbackthrowback Member Posts: 445
    Thanks Travis, looking forward to the brave sole who tries a road trip in this science experiment.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    So you get $20K off MSRP + approx. $4500 in free fuel over three years? That's a pretty good deal. Undersells Tesla's Model 3 by a fair margin. Somewhat less convenient, but so was the Tesla a few years ago.
  • mmkarbmmkarb Member Posts: 1
    Between this and the new Prius, Toyota really outdid the Pontiac Aztek as the ugliest car available. Props to them for the technological accomplishment but they really should have styled it down
  • kirkhilles1kirkhilles1 Member Posts: 863
    I'm curious. If they DID have to pay for fuel, what is the current cost per tank currently? I've been reading somewhere around $50 per 300 miles. Is that still true?
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Meh, an Aztek is just a Buick Rendezvous with cladding. The solid color Azteks aren't all that bad.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    edited April 2016
    Color, Schmulor. As my late father used to say: "you cannot polish a turd".

    So to go 300 miles and drop $50, that's the equivalent in California of driving a car using premium fuel that gets 18 mpg. So if you could push a large SUV around for that kind of money, on hydrogen, that's not too bad an equivalent.
  • daryleasondaryleason Member Posts: 501
    First, as has been pointed out, support is going to be low, initially. Second, I'm curious about the dangers of the vehicle in the event of an accident. We all know the risks with an ICE vehicle. We know about the risks with an Electric vehicle. But a Hydrogen Cell car? Yeah, that's downright explosive.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Well yes and no. Hydrogen has proven to be very safe in current industrial use. The pressure tanks are extremely (as in EXTREMELY) difficult to rupture, and hydrogen diffuses so quickly it's unlikely to explode with any great force. It's more likely to burn. If ignited, it doesn't burn as hot as hydrocarbon fires, or radiate as much heat, so chances of collateral damage are less. You wouldn't be as likely to get burned if you were close to the fire. Even in the Hindenburg fire, lots of people survived.

    One reason firefighters don't like hydrogen is that the flame is invisible! You need a viewing device to see where it is.

    Like with any fuel, you need a safe infrastructure and fueling system, and you won't be rewarded for doing something stupid.
  • darthbimmerdarthbimmer Member Posts: 606
    Thanks for putting this car in your LT fleet, Edmunds. As always with new technology it's critical to get the perspectives of everyday ownership in addition to the "Edmunds attended a manufacturer-sponsored event" type impressions.

    Now, about the styling. It looks like a 1960s era vision-of-the-future car that's been in an accident.
  • lmbvettelmbvette Member Posts: 93
    Driving a Fuel Cell vehicle is inherently cool. Why did Toyota have to ruin it with that styling? Sigh.
    Don't worry about what other people think. Drive what makes you happy.
  • wheelmccoywheelmccoy Member Posts: 97
    Hydrogen fuel cells are, have been, and will always be... the future. :)
  • zoomzoomnzoomzoomn Member Posts: 143
    edited April 2016
    kirkhilles1 said:

    Neat. Of course the whole "fuel is free" thing means that you aren't seeing the real cost of the Hydrogen Fuel.

    They do the same thing with electric cars. NOTHING is free, peeps! Somebody somewhere is paying for it and it's most definitely you and me, Mr. and Mrs. Joe Taxpayer. Also, they tout saving us from gaseous emissions. Lest we forget thet both electric and hydrogen don't make themselves and therefore result in emissions. Try to find an article on that, too. Smh. :/
  • 5vzfe5vzfe Member Posts: 161
    stever said:

    Meh, an Aztek is just a Buick Rendezvous with cladding. The solid color Azteks aren't all that bad.

    Yeah I thought the Rendezvous was one of the most unfortunate looking vehicles to ever plod down the road too, so I don't consider that a good justification for the Aztec. Mirai is still ugly, but those cars were ugly too.
  • craigo7craigo7 Member Posts: 51
    Just when I thought the Prius was the ugliest Toyota... I don't ever think I've seen a car that had jowls.
  • csubowtiecsubowtie Member Posts: 143
    This thing is absolutely disgusting looking.
  • adantiumadantium Member Posts: 42
    Hydrogen is great except don't you need to make it first and isn't that energy intensive then you're using it again to make water so great now you've gone through the chemical conversion twice and wasted even more energy probably some of it using fossil fuels. Seems like a step backwards for the environment. ALL research should be going into designing eco friendly high capacity fast charging batteries. Then we install solar panels on everyone's roof and anywhere else we can think of. Boom problem solved.
  • gslippygslippy Member Posts: 514
    This is the dumbest, most myopic choice ever for the LT fleet. Of course Toyota loaned you the car - they have plenty available since nobody will buy them.

    Why won't they buy them? It's costly, it's ugly, and it's on a short leash due to the fuel.

    You do realize you purchased a Southern California-only car?

    There are now 23 H2 stations in the entire US: http://www.afdc.energy.gov/locator/stations/results?utf8=✓&location=&fuel=HY&private=false&planned=false&owner=all&payment=all&radius=false&radius_miles=5

    Elon Musk is right about the 'fool cells', and you don't need a whole year to find this out.
  • actualsizeactualsize Member Posts: 451
    kirkhilles1 said:

    Neat. Of course the whole "fuel is free" thing means that you aren't seeing the real cost of the Hydrogen Fuel.

    The hydrogen stations list the per-kilogram cost and total price of a fillup, just like any gasoline pump. We're going to be recording that every single time, so we will be able to report on the cost to fuel the Mirai absent any "three years free" fuel incentives. Incidentally, the three years free fuel program is capped at $15,000, so we'll be able to use our data to estimate how many miles that amounts to.

    Twitter: @Edmunds_Test

  • actualsizeactualsize Member Posts: 451
    gslippy said:

    You do realize you purchased a Southern California-only car?

    There are now 23 H2 stations in the entire US: http://www.afdc.energy.gov/locator/stations/results?utf8=✓&location=&fuel=HY&private=false&planned=false&owner=all&payment=all&radius=false&radius_miles=5

    Elon Musk is right about the 'fool cells', and you don't need a whole year to find this out.

    We know this is a SoCal special (and NorCal, near the bay area). The idea here is to see what this sort of car would be like IF a hydrogen infrastructure was fully built out. Politicians are talking about it, but few outside their circles know what the end-user experience is like minus the politically-slanted proclamations.

    Twitter: @Edmunds_Test

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    EVs are on a short leash, too. A Tesla Model S is equivalent to a Lexus with a 9 gallon gas tank with a filler neck so narrow it takes 30 minutes to put another 9 gallons in it. Who would buy such a Lexus? A lot of people, looks like. So the argument kinda falls apart if you look at it that way.

  • longtimelurkerlongtimelurker Member Posts: 455
    If you want a Toyota and you want anything other than a conventional ICE sedan, you are getting something ugly. Subcompact hatch, pickup, SUV, CUV, hybrid, fuel cell vehicle...you're getting something ugly. Corolla, Camry, Avalon...not too bad at all. Anything else...forget it.
  • jakek66jakek66 Member Posts: 60
    There's something weird about me because I love the way this looks! Reminds me of a concept car circa 1990 or something.
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