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SNOW TIRES
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If you buy a new base model compact car, it is highly likely that the vehicle will be outfitted with a set of Toyos.
I know nothing about their Snow tires; I didn't realize they made them.
at a Kmart/Penske Auto.
and they do handle very well on dry and wet roads.
They are on my 99 S-10. Also.....any vehicle will handle best with the "same" tires on all 4-wheels.
Just putting snows on the rear....you give up some handling because of the grip/flex/etc...diffs
in the front and rear tires. A front tire, on a rear drive cars has to grip too only in a differant fashion than the drive tire.
The Ultra Grip is rated for Mud/Snow/Rain....they are quiet and I'll leave them on all year.
Your best bet is to use Winter tires in the Winter, and Summer tires in the Summer. This is especially true for trucks and SUV's which don't handle or brake as well as cars in the first place.
You are dead on accurate about using four of the same tires. That is the best way to go.
I have, in the past, used Goodyear Ultra-Grips on my Honda Civic, and left them on year-round. They do fine on dry roads as well, and they didn't wear down as fast as other 'snow' tires might when subjected to the hot pavement in the summer.
I think that the bigger part of the picture [in the belief that snow tires shouldn't be left on in the summer]is the fact that most snow models are made of compounds that will wear down quite quickly in the heat. The handling issue is not as prominent a reason. Heck, who wants to pay for tires earlier than necessary? I was just being lazy with the Honda, and left the Ultra-Grips on there all year. I surprised myself with how well they stood up.
They are what I would buy for winter use!
I could drive up the side of a building with those things on!
I am NOT saying nobody needs snows, but just that IN MY CASE, it is not neccesary.
The biggest factor of winter driving safety is NOT your tires, it is driver attentiveness and driver judgement. Slow EVERY move you make down, keep alert for icy patches and give yourself extra time to get where your going.
During storms in my area, the first vehicles that go into a ditch are SUV's and Audi Quattros. It seems that some people think that their AWD or 4WD gives them the ability to counteract PHYSICS. If you use snow tires as that added measure of security, that is GREAT, but if you think that snows will allow you to go faster in bad weather, then you should just stay home.
Just MY opinion, concerning MY situation. :-)
I do a lot of winter traveling up and down I89 in NH(north of Concord), often the majority of sane traffic is traveling at 50-60mph in bad weather. It never fails that a Explorer or other SUV goes flying by everyone up the passing lane, doing closer to 80, only to wind up in the median a few miles ahead. Overconfidence in AWD or 4WD is the culprit. Another thing to consider, the M+S tires normally found on SUV's are WORSE in light snow and ice then a standard, all season tire due to the smaller number of sipes in the tread desing. They sure do look tough at the mall though!
Silly flatlanders.:-)
I, on the other hand, employ both. I slow way the hell down, AND I use snow tires.
I put the snow tires on, because as you indicated, PHYSICS plays a HUGE part in winter driving. The physical properties of a good snow/ice tire are worth it to me. They are like a warm set of winter gloves for your hands.
Yes, you could simply stuff your bare hands in your coat and do just fine. I like the gloves.
I strongly agree, if you have the means, and you feel conditions warrant it, snow tires are a great extra measure for safety.
My self I use snow tires instead of all seasons just for the fact of the few times that I need the extra traction.
narrower tire = smaller contact patch = better grip. go for a narrower tire. myself, i was able to keep the SAME tire HEIGHT, with a decrease in tire WIDTH. that's worked great, and i would recommend that.
also, i am a big advocate of studs, all 4 snows.
best-
igloo
if you go narrower than recommended you may encounter different problems.
Oh, I think I'm going to buy Michelin Arctic Alpins. I've had good experience with Michelins.
Thanks,
Rich
A narrower winter tire is good for one reason that I know of: It cuts through slush and snow easiest. Wider tires do more lateral sliding under such conditions.
Guitarzan
Community Leader/Vans Conference
rear-wheel drive, sandbags in the bed for weight, and studded snows..... it's the best way to go.
i saw volvos and mitsubishi's crashing this morning on the way to work during the blizzard we are getting here in new england.
i was fine.
studdies are the way to go.
On dry roads, the Alpins seem to handle as well as my stock Conti Contacts. There also appears to be no discernible difference in noise level or ride. The Alpins do seem to weave a little more during straightline acceleration, but strangely feel better in the turns. Now some of this may be due to the fact that the Contis are not the most performance-oriented all-seasons as well as the 20k miles I've already racked up on my set.
During a couple snow storms we had in MA lately, the Alpins provided excellent traction especially on the highway. The only real problem occurred when driving along a snow packed side street. The back end of the car constantly felt like it wanted to swing out. I countered this tendency by steering against it and keeping my speed at a low and constant rate. Even then, I didn't seem to have as much trouble as most of the other motorists.
I can't say how well they compare to other studless snow tires such as Blizzaks. However, the Alpins would possibly last longer given their harder rubber compound while still providing good safe handling regardless of conditions.
Previously had Blizzaks (just on front). The vehicle with Blizzaks when slowing going into a curve always wanted to go backwards. They didn't like slushly snow when passing on a four lane. Was afraid of being sucked off the road.
My 4wd silverado performs almost like dry weather in ice and snow.
Also not much decrease in performance when dry, pulled my 5,000 lb travel trailer 400 miles last weekend at 75 on dry interstate roads.
Headed to Yellowstone for week long snowmobile tour, likely will not have to chain up with my 4 studded snows.
while studded snows may not help the sporty performance, they certainly would help you on those snow-packed side streets.
read markbuck's last post!
thanks
-Chris
check with an authorized dealer; they'll know the law. they're not as bad on the pavement as people think; it's only the losers who feel the need to spin out their back tires and shoot sparks everywhere that dig up the pavement.
As others had suggested, drivers cause accidents, not the vehicles. Driving on snow requires an attitude adjustment and a willingness to "slow down all your actions", as someone else had suggested. Having the right tires for the condition helps a lot, but they can't make the reduced traction problem disappear.
P.S.: I'm in eastern Mass. and although we don't get as much snow as Buffalo, we get a lot of sloppy road conditions requiring that your brain be in gear when your transmission is.
my experience has been that even with myself being much more careful, the success of the equation is exponetially greater when i equip the vehicle with studded snow tires that are designed to grip better than conventional tires in hazardous conditions like snow and ice.
put an idiot behind the wheel with the proper tires, and you have an accident waiting to happen.
put a careful person behind the wheel with the wrong tires, and you still might have an accident.
i speak from experience: i live in Mass as well. a couple of years ago we were getting belted with enormous amounts of snow every other day (seemed like that). i was driving slowly on the highway, and my car decided to spin out and to a 360 into the jersey barrier. my tires couldn't handle the slick icy surface, even at slow and controlled speeds.
if i had studded snows on there, that would not have happened. ever since i outfitted my vehicle with the proper tires, (in conjunction with care) i have been trouble free.
Best!
They're also quite stable and quiet on dry road surfaces. If you want to have predictable and equal (as close as possible) traction at the front and the rear, I would go for 4 identical, snow tires not just 2. Too often I have seen vehicles fish-tail or "plow", and they did indeed have unequal tires front vs. rear.
While not as good as running dry, it is phenominally better on ice....
Well, I bought them and am very happy with them. They do provide excellent traction on snow. They are a little noisy, but hey, aren't they all, if they're any good? I also have not noticed any serious degradation in steering reponse or handling on dry roads compared to the all-season Goodyear Eagles I run in warm weather. And they seem to be wearing very well so far, about 10K miles..
Flame me if I'm being too off-topic, but a number of people do not seem to live in climates that really require snow tires more than 10% of the wintertime, or at all. I live in the SF Bay Area, where we get snow once every ten years (though the hills get a dusting once a year). I drive up to snow country 2 or 3 times per winter.
Does anybody have those octopus-like gizmos that latch onto a connector that is pre-mounted on the wheel hubs, and have 8 or 12 arms that grab onto the tread surface? The arms have pads of studs built into them. Install/removal looks like it would take 30 seconds per wheel.
These seem to be a good alternative for those of us light snow-country travellers. Kinda pricey ($300 or so!), but convenient.
Thoughts?
Dave
who experience seasonal changes or do some 'minor'
off road driving. Off Road is mainly meant for those times you may encounter some dirt/slag roads
not some heavy 'mudding" I guess we'll see. As I said, so far they work very well on the dry roads and the wet roads.
Only thing I think you lose with 4wd is greater unsprung weight of the front end.
Yup, gotta slow down on ice no matter what, but studdies will add performance in extreme conditions in both starting, stopping and turning.
But, I live at 7,000 ft in the mountains out west where driving conditions are extreme. Agree with most that common sense in moderate climates will get you through the occasional snowstorm.
The V-Bar reinforced chains that I also carry when really boondocking are about 20 minutes per side. Can push snow deeper than fron hood when these are on a PU with a bed full of ballast.
i put 4 80-pound sandbags directly over the rear axle, and i use 4 studded snow tires that are narrower than my summer tires. the combination of weight, a narrow contact patch, and studs works VERY, very well.
during a storm, i choose the Ranger over my FWD Honda civic.
you DO have an increased normal force with greater weight, but you DO also have increased inertia. i can't see how stopping a heavy moving object, especially on a slippery surface, is easier than stopping a light moving object...
another point: light trucks/SUVs tend to have very poor brakes when compared to cars (look at published figures for 60-0mph stopping distances...)
It's all in the tires. Put a set of sticky tires on my Silverado, and it will stop with the best of 'em. Of course, my silverado has 4 wheel disc brakes.
can't break the laws of physics, even if you think your tires stick to snow and ice...