Synthetic motor oil

1…3839414344…175

Comments

  • adc100adc100 Member Posts: 1,521
    I personally would not use 5W-50. The 50 wt. is too heavy for good economy. Better choice would be either 5W-30 or 10W-30 assuming you are using syn. Personally I wouldn't be using the Syntec either as it is not a true synthetic.
  • mp5freakmp5freak Member Posts: 51
    My gf just bought a 2001 Ford Ranger, and the 3.0L engine calls for 5W20... We plan to use synthetic oil during the hot summer months and cold winter months here in Toronto, but I've never seen 5W20 synthetic oil. First of all, why would the Ranger need 5W20, and second, can we safely use 5W30 and not risk damaging the engine (and thus voiding the damn warranty)?

    Thanks for your help!!
  • sinjin_dogsinjin_dog Member Posts: 84
    Have 2000 Camry, been using Mobile1 form 400 miles. Also using Mobile 1 in 96 Previa.
    Now I want to use Mobile1 for Camry's transmission, dealer wants $80 to flush them and I bring my own Mobile1. Not that I do not trust the dealer, I am thinking changing the trans oil by myself execpt I can't flush them out(I think about 50 % in the tranny) so there will be mixture of regular oil and syn oil. Is mixing them could cause any problems now or later?

    Thanks
  • armtdmarmtdm Member Posts: 2,057
    I have a 92 Camry with a drain plug on the tranny pan. At 25,000 I converted to Amsoil synthetic ATF and have changed it every 30,000 since. You get about 50% of the fluid with a drain which is fine, at least that has worked for me. On my Camry the differential is a separate housing and the ATF has to be changed as well, not sure if the 2000 models have the same drain as the tranny or two separate ones.

    So, granted you only get 50% of the fluid with a drain and fill but it is much cheaper to do this and say change it again earlier then to get it flushed.
  • csandstecsandste Member Posts: 1,866
    I believe that this is the new standard which is just emerging (ILSAC3?). Ford and Honda have apparently jumped the gun on their '01 cars. I think Motorcraft oil of that weight is available in Wal-Mart, but I don't think I've seen it in a synthetic. As the new standard is accepted, I think this will become more and more common, much as 5W30 replaced 10W40 about twenty years ago. Does Ford recommend it or require it?
  • renonevadarenonevada Member Posts: 69
    I just changed my wife's oil to Mobil-1 in her 2001 Ford Explorer Sport Trac. Not only does it perform better, but the first gasoline check produced an increase of 2.9 mpg over what it was getting. Even though this represents only the first tankful, I feel confident that it has definitely increased her mileage. Plus extended oil change frequency from 3000 to 6000 miles. I was pretty skeptical at first, but "the PROOF is in the Pudding" so to speak. I'm convinced.
  • adc100adc100 Member Posts: 1,521
    This topic has been discussed ad..nausium on this board and on the engine oil board. Just scroll back through. Bottom line..Ford is going to the lighter oil to improve their CAFE (fleet milage). You are right to look at 20W syn for the extra protection. Personally I wouldn't touch the 20wt engine ... but what is done is done.
    sinjin_dog..I would also go for the fill and drain yourself. For 3 changes you get in the 90% range. Keep good track of what you drain each time..to make it easier.
  • mrdetailermrdetailer Member Posts: 1,118
    however, it is their XL line, and is not designed for extended drains, of over 7500 miles. However, if you do have engine failure caused by the recommended interval, AmsOil will cover it.
  • mrdetailermrdetailer Member Posts: 1,118
    Since your manufacturer doesn't recommend heavier weights then I would stick with the 5W-30. I have 3 vehicles over 100,000 miles. I still use the recommended 10W-30 in my Dodge, and 5W-30 in my Mazda. They are still working fine. Synthetic is a better protector all by itself without having to increase the weight of the oil.
  • wtd44wtd44 Member Posts: 1,208
    Standardization is the act of setting standards. Standards are the limits that the entity in question must observe and meet.
  • adc100adc100 Member Posts: 1,521
    What issues would Joe Sixpack have with "standards and standardization"? Do you really believe there is any issue other than price here???
  • wtd44wtd44 Member Posts: 1,208
    Supply and demand-- Supply appears to not be a problem. Demand must be generated by those interested in selling the product. Setting some standards that attract the buyer would aid the industry, just as the electronics/computer industry demonstrates. I have long suspected that the price factor is capricious at the present.
  • rcarbonircarboni Member Posts: 290
    Current standards are:

    - Flashpoint
    - Pourpoint
    - TBN
    - Viscosity Index
    - Boundary Lubrication Shear Tolerance

    Joe Sixpack doesn't seemingly want to understand these numbers, which are revealed by every synthetic maker. To compound the problem, most dino oil makers WILL NOT reveal these numbers.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    #2013

    Even if they did, they are very much lower than synthetic oil!!! This is almost a no brainer in that sense.
  • adc100adc100 Member Posts: 1,521
    But wtd44, you have a point. Mobil1, for instance does not really promote their product that hard. They promote it enough to insure it remains #1 among syns (IMO). So I believe that if you see some advertising for Mobil1 it means there is a threat to their empire. Really there us no incentive to promote it because it would take business away from their conventional oil line. I believe that the market for the product (syn) is not that deep, so the returns are not there. They obviously do statistical market research and when 90% of people say that they would not switch to syn no matter how much better than conventional it is its a done deal.
  • frank4632frank4632 Member Posts: 2
    of the major oil companies, only penzoil to the best of my knowledge,
    posts the specs for it's dino oil.
  • silvercoupesilvercoupe Member Posts: 326
    Just came back from my local Wal Mart and they had Mobil 1 in 5 qt. containers for $17.88. Maybe just a local promotion??? Anyway, that is a great price!!! Check at your local store.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    #2017

    No not a local promotion! Out here in silicon valley wallymart, I believe I paid 16.88.
  • wtd44wtd44 Member Posts: 1,208
    I cannot help but assume that prices for most synthetics are far, far higher than a fair return for cost of producing the product. The term windfall profiteering comes to mind. An example is $9.70 for one quart of gear lube. This is a bad joke. If Mobil 1 is #1 in the marketplace, it is likely due to each quart of motor oil costing under $4.00-- But then, the ingredients being so low in esters, no wonder.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    I have read that the cost of manufacture is about the same for synthetic as for conventional. So yes, obviously if the price is 3.5 per qt vs 1. per quart...
  • phil93phil93 Member Posts: 4
    Went to my local auto parts store (Auto Zone) for synthetic oil and asked him about the difference between synthetic oils. He main advice was to stick with whatever synthetic brand I chose for the life of the car. He specifically mentioned Mobil 1 and it's Tri-synthetic formula as being detrimental to a car if you switch from Mobil to another syntetic oil. He said it had something to do with the way the oil bonds to the surface of the metal. Has anyone ever heard of this? I was mildly concerned because my first oil change was Mobil 1 but since I've switched to Exxon Superflow.
  • mdecampsmdecamps Member Posts: 115
    Sounds like a bunch of hogwash to me. I've never heard of that. Remember, they only make $7.00 per hour there...
  • adc100adc100 Member Posts: 1,521
    agree with medecamps. Ask where he aquuired this information. Probably doing his doctorate at M.I.T.
  • brorjacebrorjace Member Posts: 588
    The problem with the clerks is that there isn't much in the way of qualifications to work in those places. I've seen girls handling the cash register who wouldn't know a quart of motor oil from a can of carb cleaner. The guys aren't always more knowledgeable, they just think they are ... and that's just plain scary! >:^O

    What you usually get is the more-or-less conventional 'wisdom' which is more old wives tales than it is science.

    I was in one store two months or so ago looking for 5W20 oil and 3 out of 3 clerks had never heard of it. >:^O

    For those of you who think that if 5W20 is good then 5W30 is better and 5W50 is the cat's meow, just remember they use a polmer goo like STP oil treatment to pump up the thinner oil and get it to act like a thicker oil when it gets heated up. The problem is that this polymer stuff is the oil's weak link. The heat and high-RPMs break this stuff down rather quickly and it forms sludge and varnish in your motor. Avoid extreme spread oils like 0W30, 0W40, 5W40, 5W50 and 10W40 in your motor.

    Use a synthetic 10W30 for most conditions as they have none of this viscosity improver junk ... they don't need it.

    If you car is newer and/or you drive in severe cold (temps often below 0F) use 5W30.

    It's nice to see people here have adopted their own versions of my original emoticon ==> >:^)

    --- Bror Jace
  • csandstecsandste Member Posts: 1,866
    Radio mechanic Mark Salem


    http://www.salemboysauto.com


    who's heard in the Phoenix and St. Louis markets sums up viscosity this way (excerpted from one of his faq's):


    "I know that putting a thinner oil in your car goes against everything you have been taught. Most of us cringe at the thought of putting a 5W-30 in our engine. First, you must understand what motor oil is supposed to do.


    1. Oil is used to provide lubrication between two moving parts to reduce wear. Most internal engine tolerances are measured in thousands of an inch and many tolerances are no thicker than a human hair. So, if you wanted to fill an opening with oil that was no thicker than a human hair, which would do a better job, peanut butter or sewing machine oil?


    2. Oil is used to gather or absorb heat from the internal engine parts and carry it away. Let's say two pieces of metal are rubbing against one another at say...50 times a second or 60 MPH. If we want to flush this joint with oil and keep a continuous stream of oil running through and over it to gather the heat generated and carry it away, would you use peanut butter or sewing machine oil?


    3. Oil is also used to flush the metal particles from the bearings of your engine. This one should be easy...peanut butter or sewing machine oil?


    4. 90-95% of all mechanical engine wear occurs in the first 10 seconds of a cold engine start up. That initial cold start wear can equal hundreds of miles of warm engine wear.


    So.... you it's your choice, peanut butter or sewing machine oil?"

  • silvercoupesilvercoupe Member Posts: 326
    I have a 91 Accord with 152K miles and a steady diet of Castrol GTX 10W30 since new. It uses no oil, but seeps a little around the pan gasket.

    Should I consider switching to synthetic? If so, should I begin with a blend (maybe 1 qt. Mobil 1 with the next oil change)?

    I am a little concerned about leaks, because I converted a motorcycle this way and developed a leak at the valve cover gasket. Replaced the gasket (expensive) and still use a blended oil (Golden Spectro). Transmission shifting became smoother and the engine runs quieter.
  • wtd44wtd44 Member Posts: 1,208
    does Mark Salem recommend Skippy or Peter Pan?
    I like Singer machine oil. Is it gooder for yer injun?
    :^]
  • adc100adc100 Member Posts: 1,521
    I would convert slow. Like a quart of Mobil 1 and monitor the cleanliness of the oil. Change the next time at the recommended time and gradually work up to full strength. I have never noticed increased "seepage" on older vehicles and I've done a bunch. I know armtdm has had some issues in that area. It is certainly possible. Just go around pan and valve cover bolts and give them a little nudge-you'll likely find them loose.
  • armtdmarmtdm Member Posts: 2,057
    I am a firm believer in synthetics but at your mileage don't bother. It is running fine and at 150,000 not worth the effort or cost.
  • adc100adc100 Member Posts: 1,521
    calls for GM syncromesh transmission fluid. I stuck in Mobil 1 75W-90. I seem to remember somewhere that GL-5 which is what the Mobil is may not protect the syncronizers. Anyone know??

    Thanks
  • brorjacebrorjace Member Posts: 588
    What I'd be worried about with the GL-5 is corrosion. Doesn't that stuff have corrosive sulphur compounds that will accelerate wear on components like synchros and brass/bronze bushings??

    I'd recommend whatever Redline sells in that weight ... but you knew that already. >;^}

    --- Bror Jace
  • wtd44wtd44 Member Posts: 1,208
    Red Line is super fine.

    As I understand it, the sulphur part of GL5 specs is molybdenum disulfide, which is a high pressure additive. It keeps the metal surfaces off one another by providing heavy duty film strength to fill the gaps. As I mentioned previously, I used Klotz Flex Drive 90 wt. in the differential of a Mitsubishi/Plymouth Sapporo. It is a GL5 spec synthetic product that sells for $9.70 per quart. I currently run it in the drive hub of my 1999 Honda Valkyrie.
  • armtdmarmtdm Member Posts: 2,057
    My 6 spd uses a GL-4 for the tranny and front differential but a GL-5 for the rear. There is a difference and it has something to do with copper but not sure but I stay with the manufacturer's recommendation on this one. Some idiots at auto stores believe gear oil is like motor oil, the higher the number or letter the better it is, thus because an SJ rated oil is better then a SH they assume a GL-5 is better then a GL-4 and suggest going to it. Don't listen to them!
  • one2oneone2one Member Posts: 626
    but viscosity has always been a subject that I have had difficulty when it comes to remembering the details. But this post is to get some info as to why GM did what they did. Let me explain.

    I used to own a '98 Olds Intrigue with the 3800 pushrod engine. Ran for 80,000 miles purring like a kitten (until it got totalled) using regular oil. 10w30.

    I now have an '01 Intrigue with the 3.5L Twin-cam engine. GM says that 5W30 is recommended (although they don't frown on normal 10w30).

    SO my question is: Why would they recommend a different oil for the 3.5? I know it's a different engine but my theory is because it's a higher revving engine. How that relates to the thickness of oil is what I guess I'm asking.

    Also, because of the heat generated in twin-cams, do you highly recommend synthetic oil for this reason or simply because it's "better" than regular oil?
  • adc100adc100 Member Posts: 1,521
    My '92 Corsica calls for it. 5W-30 will get to the engine parts sooner-so thats the advantage. Now with syn 10W-30 will pump at probably about what a 0W conventional oil will-as I recall. I feeel in syn the 10W is a better choice because it allows fewer multi vis additives.

    "Also, because of the heat generated in twin-cams, do you highly recommend synthetic oil for this reason or simply because it's "better" than regular oil? "

    yes to both of those questions.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    #2034

    The real answer to your question is that 5w-30 was chosen for its energy saving ability. When you use synthetic in that weight or 10w-30 you are getting superior lubrication. While unscientific, I get between .25-.5 mpg less with 10w-30 than with 5w-30.
  • rcarbonircarboni Member Posts: 290
    Another reason for this recommendation may have been that GM needs to recognize all different climate situations. A 5w-30 is a better cold-weather oil, but if you live in the south, then obviously running a 10w-30 isn't going to make much difference.
  • armtdmarmtdm Member Posts: 2,057
    At a loss on this, why would twin cams cause more heat????? m Turbo or supercharger yes, but twin cams as opposed to a single cam?

    Help?
  • mdecampsmdecamps Member Posts: 115
    In regards to the GM synromesh transmission fluid, my '98 S-10 recommends the same thing. I still have the factory fluid in mine, but I've been wanting to switch to a synthetic. I think that fluid is closer to an automatic transmission fluid rather than a gear lube. I had an '89 S-10 previously and it required automatic transmission fluid. I might buy a quart of the GM stuff just to take a look at it.
  • one2oneone2one Member Posts: 626
    From my non-technical memory I recall that twin-cams naturally rev higher than single cams (why? I dunno). This is certainly true in the case of the 3800 vs the 3.5L. Of couse, during highway cruising RPM stay about the same... maybe a couple of hundred revs higher. But never over 2000. But stop and go it revs higher. Also, during highway passing the 3800 never got close to the redline; the 3.5 bounces the tach consistantly every time I merge with traffic from a speed ramp.
  • adc100adc100 Member Posts: 1,521
    I'm biting the bullet on this one. I called Mobil1 and they indicated that Mobil1 75W-90 is not recommended for this transmission. They said it could chew up the synchronizers. They thought that this trans required a GL-4 and Mobil 1 is recommended for GL-5. I think AGMA grades are the same as GL grades. 75W-90 covers AGMA 1 to 5. Personally I think its all bunk. NAPA was clueless as was the GM parts man. The GM stuff has some syn in it (ester). Its $10 a bottle, so I don't think you want to buy it just to look at. So I now have $40 invested in 2 qts of trans I been to the GM mountain-I see the light-long live the GM god, long live the fragile GM synchronizer. (Can you tell I've had it??)
  • gslevegsleve Member Posts: 183
    Forgive me of my ignorance just need insight I thought that 5w-30 designation according to api was for flowability during winter times so engine oil reaches critical parts quicker reduce wear. However are we not speaking of synthetics and their inherent benefits one of which is flowability.

    Would it not be safe to conclude that synthetics do not abide by the same exact rule of thumb regarding the api designation for flowablity largely due to the fact syns properties exceed the api designation.

    For example take 5w-30 petro will flow at (not exactly sure) say -20 and 10w-30 flow at -10 degrees. Enter synthetics quite common that a 5w-30 syn flows at -60 and a 10w-30 syn -55 degrees, I fail to see similarities and undue concern over the weight class given syns surpass api designation by a very large margin.

    The variance between 5w and 10w syns are neglegible you're still ahead of the game relevant to wear compared to api designations for petroleum.

    Interestingly to note was checking Amsoil website to get specs on the oils flowablility characteristics, both 5w and the 10w (25,000 miles oil) will flow at -60 below zero, both will flow at this temperature.

    Am I wrong in these conclusions then Please help
  • cp4hcp4h Member Posts: 18
    Does anybody use it ? Comments ?
  • armtdmarmtdm Member Posts: 2,057
    Yes I use it, but only in my lawn mower and leaf shredder. Why, because it is substantially chaaper then everything on the shelf at the time and for my mowers I go with the cheapest cost synthetic. Probably a good oil, I honestly do not know, works well in my mower. I use Amsoil in all my cars.
  • brorjacebrorjace Member Posts: 588
    Twin cams are needed with some engines that were intended to rev higher. I don't think you can 'fit' really aggressive lobes on a SOHC arrangement ... especially with 4-valves-per-cylinder ... but I might be wrong.

    Anyway, twin cams also mean more reciprocating parts ... which means more moving parts in contact with each other which DOES generate more heat.

    Yes, I believe the switch from the heavier weights to 5W30 was PRIMARILY for fuel economy reasons ... but there are also some extreme cold weather starting advantages as well.

    It would be interesting to know if Exxon Superflow is a genuine PAO or a hydrocracked pretender. Anyone with a bottle and their 800 number wanna play 20 questions with their answer people?

    >;^}

    --- Bror Jace
  • csandstecsandste Member Posts: 1,866
    I know a lot less about synthetics than anyone else here. When Exxon and Mobil combined, one of the stated advantages was that they were going to get (further) economies of scale by combining refineries and production. I clipped this from the Exxon web page on their synthetic lubricant. It probably won't stay in any kind of readable format. My question--could this be Mobil 1 in another bottle?


    http://www.exxon.com/exxon_lubes/superflo/frproducts.htm


    Typical Inspections

    The values shown here are representative of current production. Some are controlled by manufacturing specifications, while others are not. All may vary within modest ranges.

     


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

     

    Superflo Synthetic

    SAE Grade 5W-50 5W-30 10W-30


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

     

    API Quality levels

     SJ

     SJ/EC SJ/EC


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

     

    Viscosity:

       

     

       cSt @ 100 °C 18.0 10.0 10.0

       

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

     

       cSt @ 40 °C 123.5 57.5 63.3

       

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

     

       cP @ -20 °C — — 2300

       

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

     

       cP @ -25 °C 2510 2200 —

       

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

     

       MRV @ -35 °C, cP 13,260 7,900 —

       

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

     

      

     @-30 C, cP —

     — 7400


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

     

    Viscosity Index

     162

     159 148


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

     

    Flash Point, °C (°F)

     —

     244 (471) 250 (482)


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

     

    Pour Point, °C (°F)

     -48 (-54)

     -54 (-62) -48 (-54)


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

     

    Gravity, °API

     —

     34.2 33.8


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

     

    HTMS Viscosity, cP

     4.7

     3.1 3.1


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

     

    Energy Conserving

     No

     Yes Yes


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

     

    ILSAC GF-2 Certified

     No

     Yes Yes


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  • csandstecsandste Member Posts: 1,866
    I was trying to re-edit this post to take out some of the spaces and it wouldn't let me re-edit. Apparently I exceeded the length of a single word allowed by the editor.
  • brorjacebrorjace Member Posts: 588
    ... are now one company, don't assume that Exxon's oil will be the same as Mobil's ... even in the future.

    Pennzoil and Quakere State are the same company now and their synthetics are completely different formulas ... one PAO and the other a juiced, hydrocracked mineral oil.

    --- Bror Jace
  • bluedevilsbluedevils Member Posts: 2,554
    I mentioned this a while back and nobody believed me, but my local Target store is selling all weights of Mobil1 for $3.04 a quart. Was $3.89 for the longest time, then all of a sudden price was cut to $2.94. They "jacked it up" to $3.04 and it's been that price for a couple months.

    I can hardly resist buying another 6 quarts every time I go to Target. I've got about 35 qts in the garage, and that will last our 2 vehicles quite a while, so lately I've been able to resist the temptation...

    Also, re: low prices on synthetic oils-- the Wal-Mart SuperTech brand is $2.97 at my local stores.
  • csandstecsandste Member Posts: 1,866
    I assume the Wal-Mart is really Quaker State like their dino and ATF. If that's the case is that PAO or the juiced, hydrocracked, mineral oil?
Sign In or Register to comment.

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles

Your Privacy

By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our Visitor Agreement.