I wouldn't assume as much. Walmart will add and drop suppliers at the drop of a hat so you never know for sure. Even if you ARE right THIS month ... the same might not be true during the next.
I had heard that K-Mart uses Pennzoil and WalMart uses Quaker State for ALL their oils ... but that wasn't a sure source of information and it's at least a year old.
I prefer to pay a little extra (and that's all it is anyway, a little) for the name brand and you have a better idea as to what you're getting.
Mobil 1 and Amsoil are both PAO synthetics. The only advantage that Amsoil has over Mobil 1 that I see is that they guarantee some of their brands up to given mileage for extended drains. Mobil 1 doesn't want to back their product for longevity.
Saw this today at 2 different Wal-Marts. Red bottle. Of course, no statements about how much synthetic is in the "blend" but that's standard operating procedure for blends.
I'm not taking issue with what you are saying. I feel it would be a poor business move by Mobil to recommend and back up extended oil drain intervals. The burdon on engine failures would shift from the manufacturer to Mobil 1 rightly or wrongly. And I understand that the "manufacturer must 'prove' engine damage was caused by failure of the lubricant to perform its intended function". Well, when the owner chooses to extend the oil change interval specified in the owners manual he will need to go to arbitration in the real world should his engine fail. The arbitrator is quite likely to look at the requirements which he/she failed to comply with and send him down the road talking to his lunchbox.
Were Mobil to back this extended change they would be drug into the mess. Dont forget the sludge board- likely most of the "sludged engines" are caused by owner failing to maintain the oil level or change the oil. With syn the owner could likely "forget" to check his/her oil for 10,000 miles. I think Amsoil can back their extended oil claim because #1- They need to have a marketing edge. and #2 their customers have gone out of the way to select a product not easily available off the shelf. That shows a higher level of car sense and is cultivated by the dealer. My guess is that Amsoil people chech their oil (know where their dipstick is) 10 times more than the "sludgists".
Good points. Now those users of Mobil 1 that do theri own changes are the same as Amsoil users. real problem comes in when owners start getting Mobil 1 at quick lubes and dealers and may not know where the dipstick is. Plus, the quick lube passes it off as saying good for 7500 miles with no need to check levels.
To me though I partly blame car salesmen and dealers that should educate people on how often to check fluids and how to do it. Young females especially could care less about maintenance but need to be shown the basics. Some young men too. Of course, many salesmen don't know where the dipstick is on the cars they sell either.
Perhaps the real practical answer is that "someone" for certain checks the oil levels during a fast lube oil change @ say intervals of 3k. (usually in lieu of the owner) I have three TLC's that consume 1/4 to 1/2 qt of synthetic oil at the 14,000 mile mark. In truth, it is not even worth topping up till my standard 15,000 mile interval. I also have a Corvette Z06 that would use 3 qts during the same interval period (15k) and it might be disasterous if the oil were not checked at some periodic level.
I feel that manufacturers continue to push short intervals, they want someone to look under the hood . Again, this is training.
Suppsoe the dealer made each new owner sign a statement that they were advised to check the oil every 2nd or 3rd tankful. At least they would have evidence that the owner was informed even if the levels were never checked in the future Most new car owners do not even read the manual in the glove compartment
Now, owners are not even informed of maintenace when buying the car.
As things become more "bullet" proof, in some ways we become more ignorant. Even with the great advances in conventional oil, how many people truly know that the new standards for conventional oil is 12,000 miles, let alone understand why?
The marketing and economic benefits are too OVERWHELMING to change from the (mantra like) 3,000 mile oil and filter change interval.
Actually for me it gives me serious ammunition to consider extending past the 15,000 mile interval, say to 20-25k?
I just had an oil analysis done on my 98 chevy truck with the 5.7L using 5W-30 Mobil 1 with 5,069 miles on the oil change. Truck only has 32,738 total miles on it. It came back with very high lead readings which according to blackstone labs is caused by excessive bearing wear. Mine were 55 parts per million compared to 20 ppm which is the their universal average for a vehicle of the same make and model They recommend dropping back to 4,000 mile changes and retest. This truck has used Mobil products since new. Conventional Mobil untill 15,236 miles, then full synthetic from there to the present. Up untill this last oil change, the oil has always been changed at 3,000 miles or less. I had an oil analysis done to see if 5,000 mile oil changes would be okay. I guess not. Most of the anti-wear additives were below normal also. My faith in Mobil 1 has been shaken and if the next test comes back with high lead levels, I will be looking at another oil to use. This truck has been very well taken care of and never abused, so I have no idea why the lead levels would be so high. You can see the complete analysis results under the topic "my oil analysis results" in this maintenence section.
Remember that this is trend analysis so at least two or three is needed to see what normal is for your engine. Plus, you did not have analysis while using dino so cannot compare the two, that lead level may be normal for your engine. Plus, the lab's values, are they based on mileage, that is is their 20 ppm based on 3000 miles? Wear metals should be based on mileage so that if 3000 miles has 20 ppm 9000 miles should have 60 ppm as this would be normal wear. Do not get too excitied over one analysis. I have seen my lead spike in one and then come back down for no apparent reason. Plus, if the iron count is normal do not worry too much as if the additives were gone and dirt were present you would see real wear in the iron count!
I'm sure armtdm can give further insight. The reference I have in front of me (SAE) article says 5-40 ppm for lead. So that does apear high. I'm a little curious how they determined the amount of anti wear addditives. I am very doubtful on that area. There is a new additive in Mobil 1: "An alkylated aromatic is a synthetic hydrocarbon designed by Mobil with a different chemical structure than polyalphaolefins (PAOs). It is fully compatible with both the other synthetic components of Mobil 1 and with conventional motor oils. We have begun using this fluid in conjunction with PAO and synthetic esters based on their combined excellent performance in protecting your engine against wear, sludge formation and piston deposits. This makes Mobil 1 Tri-Synthetic Formula fully compatible with conventional motor oils"
I am not about to stand on my head defending mobil. If I can find something better, I'll jump. Don't forget that small block chevy has a lot of bearing in relationship to the amount of oil it holds. I'm sure armdtm will advise you not to take the results of one analysis over-seriously. Mobil has a solid track record for engine protection. But certainly you could try another brand.
The above advice is probably the best answer, but don't rule out the possibility that there is something wrong with your engine! That is why analysis is such a useful tool. If you see bearing wear at a high level early in the game, you can do something about it before failure.
You might have a slightly unbalanced crank, or a loose rod bolt. They don't magna-flux, balance, and blueprint these engines at the factory you know! Look for the trends as pointed out, and if there is something wrong, you might save a boat-load of money by catching and fixing it early.
My levels for the other wear metals were good. aluminum 4 vs 8 chromium 2 vs 2 iron 17 vs 46 copper 6 vs 25
tin was slightly higher 6 vs 4 here are the values for the anti-wear additives.
Molybdenum 3 vs 40 phosphorus 582 vs 842 zinc 752 vs 1011
I plan on retesting in 4,000 miles to see how things are. The guy I talked to at Blackstone labs didn't seem real impressed with Mobil 1. I told him I thought Mobil 1 was supposed to be good oil and he said "well, you certainly pay more money for it" He also told me that they have seen cases where using synthetics has caused more wear than using conventional oil. He wasn't specific on what brands this was. This didn't make sense to me because I thought that synthetics had better wear charateristics than conventional oil.
My silicon level was also high 46 vs 35 they said this could be a result of poor air filtration. I use an AC-Delco hi-capacity paper filter and I didn't have any dust or dirt in the intake track. I think the reason the level was high was because I had the intake manifold gaskets replaced 3,000 miles before this oil sample was started, and there was probably residue left over from the gasket sealer.
Check out my complete results if you havn't already, in this section.
Amsoil is the ONLY 100% full synthetic oil that is made for extended drains. You can go 1 year or 25,000 miles which ever comes first. Mobile 1 is not an extended drain oil.
on their website, mobil does mention that mobil1 tri-synthetic provides "enhanced long-drain capabilities", but i guess they dont want to translate that into numbers the way amsoil does.
... extended drains, Redline also boasts that their base stocks and additive package allow the same. Of course, for me, an extended drain interval is 7,500 miles. >;^)
WTD, As for your test results, I'd first blame the lax manufacturing standards used by GM these days ... especially on an ancient design like the OHV small-block Chevy V-8. They know that this basic design is very robust and most of the rest of the cars body parts and electronic systems will fail or corrode away long before that beast will wear out.
So, as pointed out above, I wouldn't assume it's the oil that's to blame for those high readings. But, if you change brands of oils ... let us know.
Also, keep in mind the SJ and the newer oil classifications have fewer anti-wear additives in them from the start because those are harmful to catalytic converters. Is it possible that these guys are comparing your oil levels to ones meant for the diesel oils like 15W40 Delo, Delvac or Rotella? Those have higher amounts of detergent and anti-wear additives in them.
You'd think these guys would know the difference but you never know ... especially with that crack about synthetic oil "causing more wear".
ALTHOUGH, Castrol Syntec supposedly had some initial wear problems with the additives in its first formulation ... but that was nearly a decade ago.
I agree with above that Mobil 1 is also an extended drain product but they have something that neither Amsoil or Redline have, another division that sells dino oil. So, my feeling is that to protect sales of that part of the company they went with car manufacturers and said, follow their recommendations. Initially they did say 25,000 but I think presssure from manufacturers and their own dino side made them cave in! Too bad
Extended oil drain is just bad business for mobil. They already have a vast customer base and to advertise extended drains would be asking everyone to buy less of their product.
Who makes the best syn trans fluid for chrysler Trans . I only found the redline C+ ATF and the amsoil to be compatible. Cannot run a Dexron type fluid. Thanks in advance.
for some reason you are expecting to hear a smoother engine and that's what you are hearing. Perhaps you did not want to hear a smoother engine with Amsoil. This is no slam. For instance when you put those snake oil products in yuour oil you expect better gas milage. You then drive more conservatively and lo and behold you get better milage. I see no reason for an engine to run smoother after a change unless the oil is worn out. I personally have never heard any difference. Perhaps others have.
Yes smily1, oil companies stick together. One of them pushing extended changes would be like handing out poison pills to all of 'em. Apparantly they don't feel Amsoil is cutting into their business enough yet.
Depending on the vehicle that new change of oil CAN make a BIG difference...I always change oil at 3000 miles, I have a Nissan p/u 4cyl and 2 s10 trucks with the 4.3 v6 .... I can really tell the difference in the Nissan (100 HP and anything helps, even wash and wax),, the Chevs (200HP) pretty much feel/sound the same...point is..the stronger the motor the less of a factor that new oil makes, maybe if I changed it at 6000 I could tell the difference then, but not at 3000. Take 2 mayonaise jars and halfway fill one with new 10w30 oil and the other with used (3000 miles)10w30 oil , you can see the difference easy just looking at how it coats the sides when you tip the jar, especially after its been in the fridge for a while....the stronger engine just takes that difference in stride better than the weaker one does..... and the longer that dirty oil/filter stays in the motor, the more the filter bypasses and the more carbon/dirt settles out in the engine and eventually that clean oil starts getting dirtier faster too.. I almost want to change filter/add 1qt every 2k, and then change all of it every 4k... any ideas on that? probably a little overkill there but any suggestions? see y'all Rando
>>>Perhaps you did not want to hear a smoother engine with Amsoil<<<
ADC100, Actually I was expecting the engine to run like SILK after putting in AMSOIL, especially after reading it's claims of having the lowest friction amongst all synthetic oils.
Point is that I found no significant difference between Castrol Syntec(after 6000 miles) and fresh AMSOIL 5W30.
When I first switched from dino Pennzoil 10w30 to Castrol Syntec 10w30, the change was immediately noticeable. Not so when i changed from castrol syntec to AMSOIL.
When you put in the Castrol, you got the "synthetic" effect-- and I consider it real. Going then to Amsoil, you should not expect to get it again. You have already gotten it. The Amsoil would have given it to you on the initial change from dino, had you gone with Amsoil at that time.
I have been using synthetics for almost 10 years, a few cars from 1000 miles on others converted at 30,000 - 57,000. I have never had an enigne purr ever, whether it be after an oil change of upon switching to synthetic. O jsut cannot imagine why the engine would run smoother or sound better after any oil change, if it did something else was wrong!
test. It has nothing to do with friction. It gives a measure of film strength. They have been pushing this (4 ball thing) for so long that I half suspect they utilize more EP additives (extreme presure) to accomplish these results. BTW 4 ball is used more for greases anyway. Much better tests are double and tripple length API Sequence IIIE and VE tests. Apparently manufactures can not claim successful completion of multiple durations for these tests.
chikoo: I do understand your viewpoint and I respect it. I just have never noticed it-could certainly be my ears. Also I would not use Syntec due to the flim-flam nature of Castrol corp.
Bidandsell, you could e-mail Redline and ask them which of their ATFs they recommend for Hondas ...
www.redlineoil.com
... but I know Honda cars to be very fluid-picky and although I like some of Redline's products, I'd be reluctant to try anything other than Honda OEM ATF in their cars even though I know some people who've switched to Mobil 1 or Redline ATF with no ill effects.
Of course, I run MTL in my Honda Civic's 5-speed and rave about the stuff.
I also have 2 GM 4.3 V-6 engines and I know I will not wear them out, even with reg oil. Past experience with these engines is they can take a lot of abuse. I know people that have changed the oil in the 4.3 about every 25k, even with normal oil and no problems way past 100k. So what is the point?
I change it every 10k (Mobil 1) and use AC Delco Gold filters. The oil is in good condition when I drain it. I do notice that the oil pressure is about 5 pounds less when hot at the end of the 10k during idle. The reading is about 25 lbs, still very good.
This 4.3 spends most of the between 1k and 2k rpms. I was reading the manual on how GM engines/computers determine oil change times. It is based on revolutions and an offset is added for cold starts and high heat. The point is that in low rpm engines (these 2 V-6s engines turn about 1600 rpms at 60 mph) I think you would have to do something very dumb to damage them.
I think many engines are like the 4.3. Normal oil changes following the manufactures guidelines (for most people about every 7500 miles) will bring long engine life. Never changing it at all is when you will get into trouble.
how can it be good for the engine? the % of impurities / contaminants keep on increasing...and I cannot believe that just because the oil has not broken down yet, it's safe to have more impurities circulating in my engine.
BTW, how come Castrol Syntec gave me better engine smoothness compared to dino oil and no better when I switched to 100% synthetic AMSOIL?
build up over time. The question is..when do they affect the longivity of the engine. The answer for synthetics is something well over 15K and maybe not even then. Filters keep removing suspended particles and as long as viscosity is holding up and TBN's OK- no problem. I personally don't like dirty oil either-so when it starts looking to dark I change it. That's not very scientific and probably wasteful. I'm just a clean freak.
I'm planning on replacing my ATF with Mobil 1 pretty soon. Since you have the shop manual, would you give me some hints on how to do the ATF exchange myself? I'm doing this to increase the life of the transmission and maybe increase mileage by a tiny margin.
I assume is how does it compare against Amsoil? Realy no meaningful independent tests have been done to my knowledge and if they have no-one is saying. The GM endorsement of lubeguard is on the lube guard site, right??
With you being a "clean freak" and not being able to stand dirty looking oil, you could never own a diesel. My VW diesel (brand new car) oil is black within a couple of hundred miles of a change. It bothers me slightly too to see that black oil for 10K miles. That's the way all diesels are!
I have followed this procedure for a number of tranny fluid changes and it has worked well, if you're tranny does not have drain bolt than you'll have to unbolt the pan and drain the fluid usually start at a corner and allow the fluid to drain before doing all the bolts, you may have to pull the corner slightly down just enough where the fluid will start to run out, once a 1/4 of the fluids has drained, you can back off rest fo the bolts progessively more fluid will drain and then fully undo bolts and drop the pan.
Clean pan with brake cleaner and the magnets make sure you note where the magnets were oringinally, clean adhesive and gasket off the edge if the brake cleaner didn't soften gasket for easy removal than use acetone works well, clean gasket area thoroughly with brake cleaner.
Additionally I usually spray with brake cleaner the exposed underside of the tranny and unbolt the filter, replace with new filter
Some may not agree with this may be off a tad bit I usually only to hold the gasket in place, lightly and I mean ever so lightly apply a little I mean a little RTV, just light smear on the four sides of the pan just a dab only a dab, this is just to hold the gasket so as not to twist and deform when you bolt the pan to the tranny and please please torque the bolts down some specs require inch pounds, others require foot pounds
Take the old tranny fluid and pour into a gallon jug, reason give you a clear measurement of how much to replace back. Pour in the amount you drained, check were it is on the tranny dispstick should be at the appropriate level. You could stop here yet, if wanted to evacuate the Torque Converter I use the following method, which can require a two man process to do. Yet I do myself.
Under tranny find the return line that emanates from the radiator, there are two lines comming from the radiator, only way to find which is the return line is undo one line, go under the car disconnect on of the radiater lines at the tranny, go into the car place key in ignition and bump the key to the accessory positon ie: just before the starter is engaged turn key off. Look under the car and see where the fluid is dripping from if it's comming form the tranny than screw that line back into the tranny and undo the other one.
If its comming from the line this is the return line, place a clear tube of correct diameter over the line and feed into a gallon jug. Run engine and watch the fluid fill to half way mark on the gallon jug, stop engine pour in 2 quarts of tranny fluid. Run engine again watch till reaches top of the jug be judicious and timely about this, at this time you're looking for change in color of the tranny fluid to clean or really red. If the fluid is really red at this time, shut engine. Screw line back in and replenish the lost fluid may be about 1 1/2 quarts or 2 quarts, you'll be able to tell with the gallon jug.
Remeber you just added two quarts previous, there is now a total of 3 1/2 - 4 quarts. Run engine switching from park to 1st gear then back to park hesitating between shifts then put vehicle tranny in neutral, apply parking brake check fluid level add as needed and only to the cold marking on the dipstick.
If tranny fluid was not red red then, switch to a new gallon jug feed tube into jug, goto tranny and pour in 2 more quarts. If by this time you run the engine watch carefully for the change in color of the fluid, when red shut engine reconnect line and pour in the amount needed to replace what was lost, just look at how much is in the second jug.
Run engine switching from park to 1st gear and back to park, hesitating between shifts then put vehicle tranny in neutral, apply parking brake check fluid level
This should about do it and would've evacuated the Torque Converter, you may want to go for a drive about 15-20 minutes, check fluid again.
Additionally the rule of thumb for measurement to the Torque Converter is double the tranny fluid that came out the pan ie: 4qts drained out of pan then there is 4qts in the Torque Converter.
Many thanks for the instructions. I believe you are right on the money. I will however wait until I can read the shop manual and follow the instructions exactly. As you know, the Echo uses a very small amount of transmission fluid compared to the typical American car. For that reason alone I believe a fluid change a little more often than usual is cheap insurance. I am planning an driving this car for at least 300K and will do anything possible and reasonable to extend the life of both the transmission and the engine. That's why I want tou use synthetic oil in the tranny as well. The engine is on a diet of synthetic oil since day one.
I am using Mobile 1 in my Camry4cy(12k Miles) and just switched to Mobile 1 ATF last week. Drained ATF and 2.5 Quarts came out. Filled it back with 2.5 quarts drove it to work (60 miles round trip) and redrained it and refilled it again. Well, the transmission is smoother if you can believe it. A good insurance. The dealer wanted $80 to flush tranny with bring in my own ATF.
They way you drained and filled the tranny gets a pretty good % of synthetic fluid in there without doing the flush. I have done this method for years, well, actually not drained it so quickly as you but basically the same.
Comments
I had heard that K-Mart uses Pennzoil and WalMart uses Quaker State for ALL their oils ... but that wasn't a sure source of information and it's at least a year old.
I prefer to pay a little extra (and that's all it is anyway, a little) for the name brand and you have a better idea as to what you're getting.
--- Bror Jace
http://www.bestsyntheticoil.com/amsoil/basestocks.shtml
Mobil 1 and Amsoil are both PAO synthetics. The only advantage that Amsoil has over Mobil 1 that I see is that they guarantee some of their brands up to given mileage for extended drains. Mobil 1 doesn't want to back their product for longevity.
Meets ILSAC GF3? requirement.
Price $1.77/qt.
Were Mobil to back this extended change they would be drug into the mess. Dont forget the sludge board- likely most of the "sludged engines" are caused by owner failing to maintain the oil level or change the oil. With syn the owner could likely "forget" to check his/her oil for 10,000 miles.
I think Amsoil can back their extended oil claim because #1- They need to have a marketing edge. and #2 their customers have gone out of the way to select a product not easily available off the shelf. That shows a higher level of car sense and is cultivated by the dealer. My guess is that Amsoil people chech their oil (know where their dipstick is) 10 times more than the "sludgists".
To me though I partly blame car salesmen and dealers that should educate people on how often to check fluids and how to do it. Young females especially could care less about maintenance but need to be shown the basics. Some young men too. Of course, many salesmen don't know where the dipstick is on the cars they sell either.
Perhaps the real practical answer is that "someone" for certain checks the oil levels during a fast lube oil change @ say intervals of 3k. (usually in lieu of the owner) I have three TLC's that consume 1/4 to 1/2 qt of synthetic oil at the 14,000 mile mark. In truth, it is not even worth topping up till my standard 15,000 mile interval. I also have a Corvette Z06 that would use 3 qts during the same interval period (15k) and it might be disasterous if the oil were not checked at some periodic level.
Suppsoe the dealer made each new owner sign a statement that they were advised to check the oil every 2nd or 3rd tankful. At least they would have evidence that the owner was informed even if the levels were never checked in the future Most new car owners do not even read the manual in the glove compartment
Now, owners are not even informed of maintenace when buying the car.
As things become more "bullet" proof, in some ways we become more ignorant. Even with the great advances in conventional oil, how many people truly know that the new standards for conventional oil is 12,000 miles, let alone understand why?
The marketing and economic benefits are too OVERWHELMING to change from the (mantra like) 3,000 mile oil and filter change interval.
Actually for me it gives me serious ammunition to consider extending past the 15,000 mile interval, say to 20-25k?
This truck has been very well taken care of and never abused, so I have no idea why the lead levels would be so high.
You can see the complete analysis results under the topic "my oil analysis results" in this maintenence section.
I'm sure armtdm can give further insight. The reference I have in front of me (SAE) article says 5-40 ppm for lead. So that does apear high. I'm a little curious how they determined the amount of anti wear addditives. I am very doubtful on that area. There is a new additive in Mobil 1: "An alkylated aromatic is a synthetic hydrocarbon designed by Mobil with a different chemical structure than polyalphaolefins (PAOs). It is fully compatible with both the other synthetic components of Mobil 1 and with conventional motor oils. We have begun using this fluid in conjunction with PAO and synthetic esters based on their combined excellent performance in protecting your engine against wear, sludge formation and piston deposits. This makes Mobil 1 Tri-Synthetic Formula fully compatible with conventional motor oils"
I am not about to stand on my head defending mobil. If I can find something better, I'll jump. Don't forget that small block chevy has a lot of bearing in relationship to the amount of oil it holds. I'm sure armdtm will advise you not to take the results of one analysis over-seriously. Mobil has a solid track record for engine protection. But certainly you could try another brand.
You might have a slightly unbalanced crank, or a loose rod bolt. They don't magna-flux, balance, and blueprint these engines at the factory you know! Look for the trends as pointed out, and if there is something wrong, you might save a boat-load of money by catching and fixing it early.
aluminum 4 vs 8
chromium 2 vs 2
iron 17 vs 46
copper 6 vs 25
tin was slightly higher 6 vs 4
here are the values for the anti-wear additives.
Molybdenum 3 vs 40
phosphorus 582 vs 842
zinc 752 vs 1011
I plan on retesting in 4,000 miles to see how things are. The guy I talked to at Blackstone labs didn't seem real impressed with Mobil 1. I told him I thought Mobil 1 was supposed to be good oil and he said "well, you certainly pay more money for it" He also told me that they have seen cases where using synthetics has caused more wear than using conventional oil. He wasn't specific on what brands this was. This didn't make sense to me because I thought that synthetics had better wear charateristics than conventional oil.
My silicon level was also high 46 vs 35
they said this could be a result of poor air filtration. I use an AC-Delco hi-capacity paper filter and I didn't have any dust or dirt in the intake track. I think the reason the level was high was because I had the intake manifold gaskets replaced 3,000 miles before this oil sample was started, and there was probably residue left over from the gasket sealer.
Check out my complete results if you havn't already, in this section.
How could you ever prove it was the oil "causing" more wear? That was a VERY silly statement made by that guy.
WTD, As for your test results, I'd first blame the lax manufacturing standards used by GM these days ... especially on an ancient design like the OHV small-block Chevy V-8. They know that this basic design is very robust and most of the rest of the cars body parts and electronic systems will fail or corrode away long before that beast will wear out.
So, as pointed out above, I wouldn't assume it's the oil that's to blame for those high readings. But, if you change brands of oils ... let us know.
Also, keep in mind the SJ and the newer oil classifications have fewer anti-wear additives in them from the start because those are harmful to catalytic converters. Is it possible that these guys are comparing your oil levels to ones meant for the diesel oils like 15W40 Delo, Delvac or Rotella? Those have higher amounts of detergent and anti-wear additives in them.
You'd think these guys would know the difference but you never know ... especially with that crack about synthetic oil "causing more wear".
ALTHOUGH, Castrol Syntec supposedly had some initial wear problems with the additives in its first formulation ... but that was nearly a decade ago.
--- Bror Jace
Usually after an oil change, i find engine runs smoother.....but not this time. The engine smoothness remained the same.
make your own conclusions.
Yes smily1, oil companies stick together. One of them pushing extended changes would be like handing out poison pills to all of 'em. Apparantly they don't feel Amsoil is cutting into their business enough yet.
Take 2 mayonaise jars and halfway fill one with new 10w30 oil and the other with used (3000 miles)10w30 oil , you can see the difference easy just looking at how it coats the sides when you tip the jar, especially after its been in the fridge for a while....the stronger engine just takes that difference in stride better than the weaker one does.....
and the longer that dirty oil/filter stays in the motor, the more the filter bypasses and the more carbon/dirt settles out in the engine and eventually that clean oil starts getting dirtier faster too..
I almost want to change filter/add 1qt every 2k, and then change all of it every 4k... any ideas on that? probably a little overkill there but any suggestions?
see y'all
Rando
ADC100, Actually I was expecting the engine to run like SILK after putting in AMSOIL, especially after reading it's claims of having the lowest friction amongst all synthetic oils.
Point is that I found no significant difference between Castrol Syntec(after 6000 miles) and fresh AMSOIL 5W30.
When I first switched from dino Pennzoil 10w30 to Castrol Syntec 10w30, the change was immediately noticeable.
Not so when i changed from castrol syntec to AMSOIL.
hope you understand my viewpoint.
castrol : 0.7mmscar
AMSoil: 0.4mm scar
Mobil1: 0.9mm scar
That means it's almost twice as slippery as castrol or mobil1.
chikoo: I do understand your viewpoint and I
respect it. I just have never noticed it-could certainly be my ears. Also I would not use Syntec due to the flim-flam nature of Castrol corp.
Later
www.redlineoil.com
... but I know Honda cars to be very fluid-picky and although I like some of Redline's products, I'd be reluctant to try anything other than Honda OEM ATF in their cars even though I know some people who've switched to Mobil 1 or Redline ATF with no ill effects.
Of course, I run MTL in my Honda Civic's 5-speed and rave about the stuff.
>;^)
--- Bror Jace
I change it every 10k (Mobil 1) and use AC Delco Gold filters. The oil is in good condition when I drain it. I do notice that the oil pressure is about 5 pounds less when hot at the end of the 10k during idle. The reading is about 25 lbs, still very good.
This 4.3 spends most of the between 1k and 2k rpms. I was reading the manual on how GM engines/computers determine oil change times. It is based on revolutions and an offset is added for cold starts and high heat. The point is that in low rpm engines (these 2 V-6s engines turn about 1600 rpms at 60 mph) I think you would have to do something very dumb to damage them.
I think many engines are like the 4.3. Normal oil changes following the manufactures guidelines (for most people about every 7500 miles) will bring long engine life. Never changing it at all is when you will get into trouble.
the % of impurities / contaminants keep on increasing...and I cannot believe that just because the oil has not broken down yet, it's safe to have more impurities circulating in my engine.
BTW, how come Castrol Syntec gave me better engine smoothness compared to dino oil and no better when I switched to 100% synthetic AMSOIL?
Thanks
and what is AMSOIL 5W30 made of? PAO or ??
www.lubegard.com
So it certainly is not snake oil.
Now AMSOIL bieng PAO.
What is Mobil1 and how does it rate against PAO?
Clean pan with brake cleaner and the magnets make sure you note where the magnets were oringinally, clean adhesive and gasket off the edge if the brake cleaner didn't soften gasket for easy removal than use acetone works well, clean gasket area thoroughly with brake cleaner.
Additionally I usually spray with brake cleaner the exposed underside of the tranny and unbolt the filter, replace with new filter
Some may not agree with this may be off a tad bit I usually only to hold the gasket in place, lightly and I mean ever so lightly apply a little I mean a little RTV, just light smear on the four sides of the pan just a dab only a dab, this is just to hold the gasket so as not to twist and deform when you bolt the pan to the tranny and please please torque the bolts down some specs require inch pounds, others require foot pounds
Take the old tranny fluid and pour into a gallon jug, reason give you a clear measurement of how much to replace back. Pour in the amount you drained, check were it is on the tranny dispstick should be at the appropriate level. You could stop here yet, if wanted to evacuate the Torque Converter I use the following method, which can require a two man process to do. Yet I do myself.
Under tranny find the return line that emanates from the radiator, there are two lines comming from the radiator, only way to find which is the return line is undo one line, go under the car disconnect on of the radiater lines at the tranny, go into the car place key in ignition and bump the key to the accessory positon ie: just before the starter is engaged turn key off. Look under the car and see where the fluid is dripping from if it's comming form the tranny than screw that line back into the tranny and undo the other one.
If its comming from the line this is the return line, place a clear tube of correct diameter over the line and feed into a gallon jug. Run engine and watch the fluid fill to half way mark on the gallon jug, stop engine pour in 2 quarts of tranny fluid. Run engine again watch till reaches top of the jug be judicious and timely about this, at this time you're looking for change in color of the tranny fluid to clean or really red. If the fluid is really red at this time, shut engine. Screw line back in and replenish the lost fluid may be about 1 1/2 quarts or 2 quarts, you'll be able to tell with the gallon jug.
Remeber you just added two quarts previous, there is now a total of 3 1/2 - 4 quarts. Run engine switching from park to 1st gear then back to park hesitating between shifts then put vehicle tranny in neutral, apply parking brake check fluid level add as needed and only to the cold marking on the dipstick.
If tranny fluid was not red red then, switch to a new gallon jug feed tube into jug, goto tranny and pour in 2 more quarts. If by this time you run the engine watch carefully for the change in color of the fluid, when red shut engine reconnect line and pour in the amount needed to replace what was lost, just look at how much is in the second jug.
Run engine switching from park to 1st gear and back to park, hesitating between shifts then put vehicle tranny in neutral, apply parking brake check fluid level
This should about do it and would've evacuated the Torque Converter, you may want to go for a drive about 15-20 minutes, check fluid again.
Additionally the rule of thumb for measurement to the Torque Converter is double the tranny fluid that came out the pan ie: 4qts drained out of pan then there is 4qts in the Torque Converter.
This only for a Automatic Transmission
Here is Lubegard's comparison:
http://www.lubegard.com/automotive/engine.html
But I don't see any statement there that it is MobilOne synthetic.
If you have one of these newer engines that run hot to meet EPA requirements the heat reduction capabilities more than offset the cost.