I recently replaced my manual transmission fluid with synthetic and I added Lubegard. On a recent trip to Yellowstone I had plenty of opportunity to downshift on slopes and for passing. On the standard transmission fluid the transmission would shudder, and the 4wd button on the shifter would vibrate. Didn't do it this time. This means to me that synthetic clearly improves transmission performance.
i am considering changing from dino oil to syn. one of my cars is new so I was going to wait about 5000 miles for the engine to break in before I do this. my second car has 195k and i was wondering if it would be a good idea to change to synthetic oil, i wanted to use amsoil 0w30.
but if you go to 100% syn you will dissolve old deposits of conventional oil and possibly block oil ports/passages. Also gaskets/seals are likely to leak. I would either not switch or mix a quart of syn for a few changes and then step up the quantity of syn over a gradual period. The newer the car the less problem you'll have. Just my opinion.
I too am a huge proponent of synthetic but at 195K I would not make the switch. No huge difference in performance (unless you live in WI, Canada, Dakotas etc.) and not worth the potential for cleaning the engine and seeping seals etc. On the new car, definitley switch.
Interesting though, on a recent purchase of 97 with 57,000 miles I switched to synthetic. Engine was seeping oil upon purchase using dino and continued to seep oil in the same three locations after switching. Fisrt change after 3000 miles and oil analysis was great and next change will be after 7,500 as I work my way up to 12,000 or so. However, after 9000 miles in total of synthetic use two of the seepage areas appear to have dissappeared for the present time. Will see if this continues. With 6,500 miles on this current change I have had to add only 1/2 quart which is good under any circumstances. This one is Amsoil 10W30.
They have no ATF for 1996 and newer Honda automatic transmissions. They call the Honda ATF a premium product but a closed spec.. Just changed my 1994 Jeep Grand Cherokee to full synthetic Wal-Mart Supertech 10w30.
On my dual overhead cam engines I replace the seals regularly as a maintenence item when I do the timing belt. In that case the change over to syn will not be problem. I did it on car with 125,000 miles on it without any trouble.
Let me say that the synthetic doesn't cause the seals to shrink, but since the molecules are a uniform size, it will leak out quicker from existing holes.
Be as it may, I didn't change over on my 170K mile car either.
Anybody have any experience w/ Royal Purple motor oil? I tried their gear lube in my 97 Subaru. Then I tried Mobil1 gl. The Mobil1 was quieter (the RoyalPurple was actually noisier than the factory fill!) and smoother shifting.
Never tried it. one of the much smaller players in the synthetic field. Plus, after reading their material I am not sure what they are selling, is it true synthetics or blends etc.
I am have my oil change made at my dealer's service Deptment and want to have synthetic put in. They told me they carry only Castrol Syntec and don't offer Mobil One which would be my choice. Poster seem to think Castrol is not "true synthec". My question is if it is good enough to be significantly superior to the dino oil for longer drain intervals, while not as good as Mobil One. Your idea will help me to decide which oil to request, as the price is quite a bit different. Thanks.
6000 miles is good enough for me as I always had oil change less than 5000 miles. The service indicator in the car never indicats the need for oil change until at least over 8000 miles. It is getting quite confusing these days as to the length of time for oil change. Thanks for your response.
It ay be good etc. but they should be honest with the public and not advertise it as a synthetic, advertise it as whatever it really is, a highly refined hydrocracked petroleum based oil that they say performs like a synthetic.
So sleazy advertising, high cost and for these reason I refuse to support any company that intentionally misleads the buying public
I would think that it should be good enough to go the maximum 7500 miles or whatever. But like armtdm, the sleeze factor would be too high to even consider using the product. And the the "impressive tests" that they provide are probably not worth the paper they are on. They appear to have a history of distortion/misrepresentation of facts. Just don't trust 'em.
I'm another that thinks Castrol tried to throw a high 'n hard one by the motoring public with the secret switcharoo of their synthetic formulas. I've even read their lame justification ... especially their response to Patrick Bedard's article in Car & Driver and it smells like 100% Orwellian-lawyer-speak to me. Sure, they won in court against Mobil and you can't PROVE that what they did with their synthetic formula was underhanded ... but it still smells sleazy to me. Don't look for me to buy a drop of this stuff anytime soon. >:^(
I'm sure their Syntec is better than just dino oil but it's seriously overpriced and I heard when pressed hard, tends to form ash deposits. I wish I remembered where I heard that last comment from.
Royal Purple - Long on hype, short on quality. First of all, it's a blend ... NOT a 100% synthetic oil ... and they don't make this obvious to the average buyer. Oh, and they add this 'secret ingredient' called "Synerlec".
*sniff* *sniff*
Does anyone else here smell something ... something like snake oil? >;^)
Want a good laugh? Read the "technical data" on Royal Purple's website:
Hehe, Redline Synthetic Oil these guys ain't!! I'm surprised they don't have a graph showing their product's 'specialness' quotient superior to that of some unnamed competitor. LOL! They have graphs, they have (arbitrary?) numbers, but they don't seem to have any useful information.
Really, try some other brand!
I haven't seen Mobil 1 5W20 yet. I'm sure 5W30 would do in the meantime.
I have driven my Acura Integra for about 100K, but the decrease in mpg change sufficiently. I have my oil change regularly at every 4K and transmission every 12K. Before I would get around 29 mpg city/highway but now I getting around 21 mpg. Hey does anyone know what services I can do to get my car back to get 29mpg?
I haven't replacing oxygen sensor and fuel filter. But I can smell gas fume from my muffle during the morning start-up. How much would change the fuel filter and oxygen sensor would costs?
Fuel filter anywhere from $40-$75 depending on where it is located and part cost. Oxygen wow, anywhere from $15 to several hundred depending on the car. This is to have a mechanic do it, not you.
Could also be the injectors are plugged, spraying poorly need cleaning etc. Could be one of multiple factors.
You actually change tranny fluid every 12,000 miles. Isn't that overkill????
I bought an used car, a 1988 Ford Taurus with 105K miles, when immigrated in 1996. It used a lot of gas, about 8 gallons every week, with only 65-70 miles per week. This was about 8-9 miles per gallon, all in short city trips.
The engine also knocked heavy with regular and even mid-grade gas. With 93 octane it was OK.
My friend told me the modern American cars do not require tuning and cannot be tuned, and it is impossible to do anything. Later he confessed that he simply did want us to waste money on the tune-up.
Both I and my wife had zero driving experience, and it was the first car in our family, including parents and grand-parents. My friend was sure that we will total the car very soon.
A year later we learned that tune-up is possible and advisable. We did it, and and it cut the fuel consumption in half.
Just a standard tune-up at Firestone. It costs about $50 to $100, depending on number of cylinders, how is the engine mounted, transmission and air condition interference, etc. Even less with coupon. Includes new plugs, injectors cleaning, probably air filter, and I do not remember what else.
However, the car must be driven much more gently after the service. I accustomed to push the gas pedal to the floor before the tune-up, and ruined the engine soon after...
For you to get this increase due to the syn change. I am the biggest fan of syn there is but 3% is normally the biggest change you would be expected to get. If you got 5% that would be 1 mpg difference. Probably you expected to get better milage with syn and you consciously or otherwise drove better or more conservatively. I know when I was younger there were different "devices" which would give you better milage and after you put them on-lo and behold- you got better mpg even though they were "snakeoil". At any rate you improved your driving habits and got the increase-congratulations.
synthetic or dino has been Quaker State for quite some time now. Their filters are Champion Labs. If I remember correctly Quaker is PAO and Pennzoil not-- correct?
There are only a few companies which manufacture base stocks (Mobil is a big player). Mobil has compared their product with other brand syns and must came up short. This article was published in SAE. I'm not implying that Mobil is the best, only that the additive package is most important in the grand scheme of things.
mobil1 doesnt seem to be the solid contender it once used to be - especially after the introduction of its tri-synthetic formula.
valvoline synpower, castrol syntec and even havoline synthetic seem to surpass mobil in industry tests. i remember reading that even amsoil commented that mobil's prior products were much better.
i dont know what the reason might be ... could be something related to the fact that they lost the court case with castrol over the definition of the term "synthetic" and decided to downgrade their product (?) so it could still be called a "full synthetic"
btw i've been a loyal mobil1 user for the past 2 yrs.
in which industry tests has mobil 1 now come up short?
According to the mobil-1 website, heir tri-synthetic is the result of adding one component to their old oil. Hard to beleive that that would make their oil that much worse.
If mobil-1 has really dropped down that much. I'll gladly switch to something else. I'm just curious which industry tests these are. I am somewhat wary of AMSOIL publishing tests saying mobil-1 is a poor choice.
If castrol syntec is a solid choice, i can just use that--it's the synthetic my dealer already uses.
I would be interested in reading about documented proof that their new formula is inferior. I suspect that I'll have a long wait. I'm sort of like dhanly- if something better is proven to be available, I'll switch. Meanwhile-steady as she goes.
www.bestsyntheticoil.com which happens to be an amsoil website states that mobil1 was their closest competitor UNTIL they they came out with their tri-synthetic formula.
they also have graphs depicting certain tests (i think its the 4-ball wear test and some other test) where tri-syn 0w-30 is at the bottom of the pack and tri-syn 5w-30 isint too far either.
i'm not an "oil guru" to comment on the validity of these tests, and dont know whether they should be taken with a pinch of salt or not. i'd leave that for the experts to comment on.
i've been using mobil1 diligently for the past 2.5 yrs and have no problems with it whatsoever. all i'm trying to find out is that for the money that i'm paying, is there something better out there for the same price (or maybe even cheaper)
if anyone out there has any info regarding an independent lab comparing the quality of different brands of syn oil, i'd be really happy to have it
to determine engine wear. This test is used mainly for greases to test EP extreme pressure additives. So in theory you could design an automotive oil which may do well on the 4 ball and not provide good cam wear. I'm not saying Amsoil is doing this-just that its not valid. API Sequence VE and IIIE tests are used by Mobil as a measure of real world performance. These are run at double, tripple and quadruple the required lengths. These results are documented in SAE Pubs 951026 and 98144 and are available at sae.org for 10 bucks online. The second publication was used in developing the latest generation of syn at mobil which among other things added a new synthetic wear inhibitor. Ironically the same laws which allowed Castrol to call Syntec "fully Synthetic" prevents Mobil from advertising that their oil meets say a double Sequence VE test.
That's the problem with afvertising claims. Amsoil has an interest in knocking Mobil-1 down; they're #1. Mobil of course wants good advertisment.
Mobil-1 says they ran a bmw 2.5L i-6 engine for 1 million miles, doing 7,500 mile changes, and found it to be inside new engine factory specs for cam wear, etc.
Of course, if that engine was under no load, that's not as impressive. If it simulated regular diving conditions, i'm quite impressed.
Serendipitiously, i have almost the same engine in my car ( i have the 2.8L ) , and i change the oil when the computer says--about every 10-12K miles or so. Realistically, 250K miles inside new engine specs would be great.
I just bought a case of 10w30 Formula Shell Motor Oil. I paid 34 cents for the stamp to mail in the rebate request. When it is all over and done, the oil will have cost me 42 cents a quart. It has all the needed endorsements for use in gasoline engines, and will not void my warranty on any car I own. I'll change the Purolator standard filter and the oil at 3000 miles, and all will be well. I used to use synthetic oil, but saw the light. Come on down to the dino mission tonight, people, and be saved!
Deer see the light when they stare into oncoming headlights....just kiddin'. As long as you are willing to do those frequent changes there should be little difference in the longlivity of the engine. I still say that when bad things happen-like loss of coolant you'd probably be better with the syn. I'm a habitual worrier though.
... in fact friends of mine use the stuff and I have no interest in switching them to something else.
The one thing that would make me rest a little better if I were using this stuff is if they cranked up the amount of ZDDP in their formula ... just a touch.
They brag about their formula being really, really low in this phosphorus but it's an extremely useful last ditch, high-pressure anti-wear additve. Right now, Mobil one is 0.76% ZDDP by weight. The automobile manufacturers want to offer a 100,000 mile warranty on the catalytic converters and this stuff is bad for them so they pressured the oil companies to begin reducing the amount they put in oil.
Valvoline Synpower, on the other hand is 0.70-1.4% ZDDP by weight. That's almost double and a figure like that would mean a lot to me if I were using the stuff for extended drain intervals.
Dino oil may be fine for normal climates, but where I live (South Dakota)I can go from driving 200 miles with cruise at 84 mph (don't like to go 10 over the limit) with a loaded car in 105-110 degree heat into a 20 - 30 mph head wind, running the front and rear a/c full blast (pretty darn stressfull).
Then 2-3 months later in November/December I am still on the same oil and it is 20-30 below zero. You don't want to hear what a car sounds like when it is 20-30 below zero and you start it (not quite as bad with syn). At that temperature I start the car 20 minutes before I leave the house, and the temp gauge is still pegged on cold when I get in to drive off. Sometimes I go a week without the temp gauge moving, but I do try to let the car warm up every now and then. I usually let it run after I get to work once a week, but tend to forget, and when I go to the car to go to lunch it is still running! At least the car is toasty - finally.
I doubt there is a grade of dino oil that can handle those extremes (on the same change) as well as Mobil 1 5w-30.
Glad I got a rise from you! I've gotta agree that a mandatory run to civilization on an empty crankcase, or ruptered coolant hose, that syn could sure come in handy-- especially if it were RED LINE. I used to drive 35 miles to work in South Dakota, year round. You've got the facts right on the weather. I used dino, but I can assure you I got warmed up every day! Had one of those monster meadowlarks go through the grill of my Ramcharger... but that's another story. I must confess that I use synthetic GL5 in the hub of my shaft drive Valkyrie. Does that count? (;^~
My cars are outside. Garage used as a storage shed ifyaknowhatImean. Granted I'm in a milder climate but with the block heater I can usually start up, scrap off the windows and I have heat coming through the vents. The start is quicker and the engine runs muuuch smoother. In cold weather I really think these block heaters are engine savers.
I don't have a block heater, but probably should. Most people around here do have them. My cars are originally from warmer climates, and I never did install one. If you buy a new car here it will have a block heater. I live in town and park in the street, and it is kind of a pain to dangle a cord accross the sidewalk, but many people do that.
Side note - shortly after we moved out here it got down to -35 one night, and I wasn't sure my car would be able to start so I placed an old comforter over the hood to help keep some heat in. The trick worked fine the car started right up when many other people were having trouble. The only problem was that the heat from the engine condensed in the comforter then froze it to the hood. When I pulled it off I had material stuck all over the car. Lesson learned.
Part of the reason i like synthetic is range too. 12K miles per oil change is normal for me, and that might take me from 0F at the ski slopes to 115F driving at 90+mph in the desert with the AC blasting. I have 15w40 in my car now, and will put in 20w50 saturday, yet the 20w50 pours down to -40F so i'm covered. This is even more so for our turbocharged car in stop & go traffic.
Comments
I recently replaced my manual transmission fluid with synthetic and I added Lubegard. On a recent trip to Yellowstone I had plenty of opportunity to downshift on slopes and for passing. On the standard transmission fluid the transmission would shudder, and the 4wd button on the shifter would vibrate. Didn't do it this time. This means to me that synthetic clearly improves transmission performance.
about 5000 miles for the engine to break in before I do this. my second car has 195k and i
was wondering if it would be a good idea to change to synthetic oil, i wanted to use amsoil
0w30.
Interesting though, on a recent purchase of 97 with 57,000 miles I switched to synthetic. Engine was seeping oil upon purchase using dino and continued to seep oil in the same three locations after switching. Fisrt change after 3000 miles and oil analysis was great and next change will be after 7,500 as I work my way up to 12,000 or so. However, after 9000 miles in total of synthetic use two of the seepage areas appear to have dissappeared for the present time. Will see if this continues. With 6,500 miles on this current change I have had to add only 1/2 quart which is good under any circumstances. This one is Amsoil 10W30.
Let me say that the synthetic doesn't cause the seals to shrink, but since the molecules are a uniform size, it will leak out quicker from existing holes.
Be as it may, I didn't change over on my 170K mile car either.
Pricey as well.
I am trying out AMSOIL now.....
check back in 3 months for report on AMSOIL
go to castrolusa.com and contact their technical support. They can fax you some tests that are impressive.
It is definitely better than conventional oil. Don't know if it's as good as other synthetics.
So sleazy advertising, high cost and for these reason I refuse to support any company that intentionally misleads the buying public
I'm sure their Syntec is better than just dino oil but it's seriously overpriced and I heard when pressed hard, tends to form ash deposits. I wish I remembered where I heard that last comment from.
Royal Purple - Long on hype, short on quality. First of all, it's a blend ... NOT a 100% synthetic oil ... and they don't make this obvious to the average buyer. Oh, and they add this 'secret ingredient' called "Synerlec".
*sniff* *sniff*
Does anyone else here smell something ... something like snake oil? >;^)
Want a good laugh? Read the "technical data" on Royal Purple's website:
http://www.synerlec.com/technical.html
Hehe, Redline Synthetic Oil these guys ain't!! I'm surprised they don't have a graph showing their product's 'specialness' quotient superior to that of some unnamed competitor. LOL! They have graphs, they have (arbitrary?) numbers, but they don't seem to have any useful information.
Really, try some other brand!
I haven't seen Mobil 1 5W20 yet. I'm sure 5W30 would do in the meantime.
--- Bror Jace
Could also be the injectors are plugged, spraying poorly need cleaning etc. Could be one of multiple factors.
You actually change tranny fluid every 12,000 miles. Isn't that overkill????
The engine also knocked heavy with regular and even mid-grade gas. With 93 octane it was OK.
My friend told me the modern American cars do not require tuning and cannot be tuned, and it is impossible to do anything. Later he confessed that he simply did want us to waste money on the tune-up.
Both I and my wife had zero driving experience, and it was the first car in our family, including parents and grand-parents. My friend was sure that we will total the car very soon.
A year later we learned that tune-up is possible and advisable. We did it, and and it cut the fuel consumption in half.
Just a standard tune-up at Firestone. It costs about $50 to $100, depending on number of cylinders, how is the engine mounted, transmission and air condition interference, etc. Even less with coupon. Includes new plugs, injectors cleaning, probably air filter, and I do not remember what else.
However, the car must be driven much more gently after the service. I accustomed to push the gas pedal to the floor before the tune-up, and ruined the engine soon after...
Thanks
Is it any good?
http://www.pennzoil.com/prdsmktg/products/high_tech/default.htm
Thanks again
valvoline synpower, castrol syntec and even havoline synthetic seem to surpass mobil in industry tests.
i remember reading that even amsoil commented that mobil's prior products were much better.
i dont know what the reason might be ... could be something related to the fact that they lost the court case with castrol over the definition of the term "synthetic" and decided to downgrade their product (?) so it could still be called a "full synthetic"
btw i've been a loyal mobil1 user for the past 2 yrs.
According to the mobil-1 website, heir tri-synthetic is the result of adding one component to their old oil. Hard to beleive that that would make their oil that much worse.
If mobil-1 has really dropped down that much. I'll gladly switch to something else. I'm just curious which industry tests these are. I am somewhat wary of AMSOIL publishing tests saying mobil-1 is a poor choice.
If castrol syntec is a solid choice, i can just use that--it's the synthetic my dealer already uses.
dave
Something to think about ...
--- Bror Jace
they also have graphs depicting certain tests (i think its the 4-ball wear test and some other test) where tri-syn 0w-30 is at the bottom of the pack and tri-syn 5w-30 isint too far either.
i'm not an "oil guru" to comment on the validity of these tests, and dont know whether they should be taken with a pinch of salt or not. i'd leave that for the experts to comment on.
i've been using mobil1 diligently for the past 2.5 yrs and have no problems with it whatsoever. all i'm trying to find out is that for the money that i'm paying, is there something better out there for the same price (or maybe even cheaper)
if anyone out there has any info regarding an independent lab comparing the quality of different brands of syn oil, i'd be really happy to have it
API Sequence VE and IIIE tests are used by Mobil as a measure of real world performance. These are run at double, tripple and quadruple the required lengths. These results are documented in SAE Pubs 951026 and 98144 and are available at sae.org for 10 bucks online. The second publication was used in developing the latest generation of syn at mobil which among other things added a new synthetic wear inhibitor. Ironically the same laws which allowed Castrol to call Syntec "fully Synthetic" prevents Mobil from advertising that their oil meets say a double Sequence VE test.
Mobil-1 says they ran a bmw 2.5L i-6 engine for 1 million miles, doing 7,500 mile changes, and found it to be inside new engine factory specs for cam wear, etc.
Of course, if that engine was under no load, that's not as impressive. If it simulated regular diving conditions, i'm quite impressed.
Serendipitiously, i have almost the same engine in my car ( i have the 2.8L ) , and i change the oil when the computer says--about every 10-12K miles or so. Realistically, 250K miles inside new engine specs would be great.
dave
I paid 34 cents for the stamp to mail in the rebate request. When it is all over and done, the oil will have cost me 42 cents a quart. It has all the needed endorsements for use in gasoline engines, and will not void my warranty on any car I own. I'll change the Purolator standard filter and the oil at 3000 miles, and all will be well. I used to use synthetic oil, but saw the light. Come on down to the dino mission tonight, people, and be saved!
Later,
Brotha' Al
The one thing that would make me rest a little better if I were using this stuff is if they cranked up the amount of ZDDP in their formula ... just a touch.
They brag about their formula being really, really low in this phosphorus but it's an extremely useful last ditch, high-pressure anti-wear additve. Right now, Mobil one is 0.76% ZDDP by weight. The automobile manufacturers want to offer a 100,000 mile warranty on the catalytic converters and this stuff is bad for them so they pressured the oil companies to begin reducing the amount they put in oil.
Valvoline Synpower, on the other hand is 0.70-1.4% ZDDP by weight. That's almost double and a figure like that would mean a lot to me if I were using the stuff for extended drain intervals.
--- Bror Jace
Then 2-3 months later in November/December I am still on the same oil and it is 20-30 below zero. You don't want to hear what a car sounds like when it is 20-30 below zero and you start it (not quite as bad with syn). At that temperature I start the car 20 minutes before I leave the house, and the temp gauge is still pegged on cold when I get in to drive off. Sometimes I go a week without the temp gauge moving, but I do try to let the car warm up every now and then. I usually let it run after I get to work once a week, but tend to forget, and when I go to the car to go to lunch it is still running! At least the car is toasty - finally.
I doubt there is a grade of dino oil that can handle those extremes (on the same change) as well as Mobil 1 5w-30.
I must confess that I use synthetic GL5 in the hub of my shaft drive Valkyrie. Does that count? (;^~
Side note - shortly after we moved out here it got down to -35 one night, and I wasn't sure my car would be able to start so I placed an old comforter over the hood to help keep some heat in. The trick worked fine the car started right up when many other people were having trouble. The only problem was that the heat from the engine condensed in the comforter then froze it to the hood. When I pulled it off I had material stuck all over the car. Lesson learned.
dave