Synthetic motor oil

mrdetailer · October 2001

On my last 2 it cost about $100 to install the block heater and replace the coolant.

chikoo · October 2001

I did not realize this but the oil slowly and steadily gummed up my engine...good thing that I switched to AMSOIL and and 3 weeks later, I notice the difference in engine smoothness....it took AMSOIL 3 weeks to remove the gum deposited in my engine by Castrol Syntec 10w30..

STAY AWAY

adc100 · October 2001

But I very much doubt the accuracy of what you are saying. How did you determine the engine was getting "gummed up"? We need facts on this board.

sdayalani · October 2001

what about fuel consumption? has it gone down since you switched to amsoil?

i'm not a castrol fan myself ..prefer to stay with genuine synthetics.
i wouldn't like the feeling that i paid synthetic price for some refined hydrocracked stuff

wtd44 · October 2001

What is all this gumming and sludging stuff I am reading about in these edmunds threads. My recollection is that such phenomena only occur as a result of extreme heat "coagulating" the lubricant.

gsleve · October 2001

is it a gimmick ? Thought it was very intresting

http://www.synlube.com/pr02.htm

chikoo · October 2001

when using Castrol syntec 10w30 I was observing a consistent descrease in my mileage and a need to apply more pressure to my gas pedal to get the engine revving...

after I put in AMSOIL 5w30, the engine has started to rev so easily that it is simply amazing, but mind you this started happening after about 3 weeks or so after I changed fluids to AMSOIL. So presumably, it took it's time to clean up the bearings and the engine moving parts of the coating that Castrol Syntec had deposited.

armtdm · October 2001

I had extensive e-mail debates with synlube and concluded that:

Their syntethic ATF was no better, in fact; useful life span less then Amsoil

Oil, well, very very expensive and you have to add an additive package every once in a while plus send sample to them for review. Further, when I tried to contact their so called testimonial people they never replied to my inquiries.
Plus, most of their data is on old cars, not very scientiifc to me as well.

Thus, I stayed away from trying it, really really expensive.

gsleve · October 2001

I've recently contacted about 10 people mostly those with newer cars the responses were very interesting most individuals said (ones with newer cars) used a quart of this stuff every 12,000 - 15,000 miles.

They all claimed it was very very good.
could all be just hype, still waiting on some others, and what their email says.

Hey wanted to ask ? Amsoil's ATF I thougt was a 3x the manufacturers drain interval no time limit established I called them on this they insisted only 3x the drain interval average car these days is 15,000(toyota corolla) to a ford taurus 30,000 miles, that would make toyotas drain intervals every 45,000 with amsoil and ford 90,000 milses, synlubes claims their ATF is a 10yr 150,000 mile drain. Like there motor oil. Is there a difference between amsoil oil recommendation and synlubes drain interval?

I agree this stuff is very expensive yet if oil changes are almost eliminated and only top off what may be normal consumption and with little wear is the price justified?

Mobil 1 $4.00 a quart average car say 5qts plus a really good filter, round up price about $25.00 per change done every 6months comes out $50.00 a year done over a 5yr period $250.00 barring you have no oil consumption between changes

Synlube $150.00 4qts initial fill 2qts add oil for normal consumption 1 really good filter 2 magnets on filter to catch ferrous metals take out of oil circulation due precursors to oxidation and sludge, just estimating over a 5yr time frame.

No drain and filter changes for that period sounds pretty good. Yet keeping perspective that metal wear is as good as mobil 1 or Amsoils synthetic

Just shooting the breeze again I could be altogther wrong.
Really I appreciate comments because I'm contemplating it's use

Hey armtdm do you have you're oil analyzied every year or so ? what been you're trend analysis like ?

Yet they have some really excellent tech data on lubrication just outstanding, I was perusing the site gave a lot of insight on kinematic viscosity, absolute viscosity, tribology, filter media, quite informative things I had not been apprised of.

adc100 · October 2001

I personally think you are taking a big leap of faith. That's not considering paying that huge premium. There is lots of evidence that both Amsoil and Mobil 1 can go the distance. It would be difficult to believe that synlube has the resources of Mobil 1. I really considered trying the Redline-I'm going to delay that experiment because of the feeling that I just stated. I'm going to confine my experimentation to different types of auto finishes. The only harm here may be that more bugs or bird do-do stick to one finish more than the other. I broke in my Sentra at 30 miles with Mobil 1. After 10K, I couldn't be happier.

brorjace · October 2001

Synlube has all the earmarkings of a company in the snake oil business. Most notably is the massive amount of cash required up front. That alone should set off warning bells.

I'm guessing it's just another synthetic formula (PAO based, if you're LUCKY!) but they are marketing it in a very different way. That's all.

--- Bror Jace

gsleve · October 2001

I will give it more consideration. I've been using Amsoil for the last 10yrs and truly love the 0w-30 with yrly drain.

armtdm · October 2001

My new Buick has a servere service of 50,000, normal 100,000 on the ATF from the factory

gsleve · October 2001

Do you trust the manufacturers drain interval and their fluid for that extended period ?

My brother has a burb the recommend a similar interval I do not trust it, I'll switch it over to Amsoil ATF we've been using it on the 90 honda since 15,000 miles only changed it twice now acculmulated 110,000 miles.

Makes me wander if manufacturers atf is hydrocracked or a true synthetic

armtdm · October 2001

If the Buick Dexron III is synthetic? I had planned on doing a drain and fill around 25,000 using Amsoil but problem with GM products is that they refuse to put a drain plug in so you either drop the pan or syphon. Fortunately, I picked up a pretty good syphon pump for under $20 and it works great so I will probably use that.

My Camry I have Amosil synthetic in since 25,000 (drain and fills every 30,000). I have not replaced filter since 25,000 and now have 138,000. Wonder if filter/screen is getting filthy?

adc100 · October 2001

I used one of those plastic drill pumps. (about $10) for a couple of drain jobs. It worked really well. You just have to make sure you pour a little of ATF in the discharge to make it seal. I'm sure it makes sense for GM not to use a drain plug. (more profits for dealers, less likely for joe sixpack to drain and get dirt in the system) Still it has cost me lots of $$$$$$ and agravation over last 20 years.

aspenwhite · October 2001

I can't find any GL-4 synthetic gear oil to fill a manual tranny. All brands avail.in Auto Parts Stores (Mobil-1, Valvoline, etc) they only make GL-5 synthetics.
What is the difference between GL-4 and GL-5 API service gear oil? Can I use GL-5 when the owner's manual recommends GL-4? Thanks for your advise in advance.-AW

adc100 · October 2001

The GL-5 I believe has more corrosion inhibitors and is will chew the synchronisers up. I had the same problem in my son's Cavalier. I bought the Mobil 1 (GL-5) and eventually drained it after 25 miles. Very expensive flush @ 8.00 qt. Go with the GM "Synchromesh" Fluid (unfortunately $10 qt.-partially synthetic) It must protect very well-it looked like new-no chips smooth shifting after 50K in his vehicle. It was probably a mistake to change. I understand that Redline has the GL-4 syn Many swear by it.:

http://www.manhonda.com/store/sports/index.cfm?Level=13&itemno=AMA-292&CFID=387765&CFTOKEN=48649767

newcar31 · October 2001

That's weird. My owners manual recommends GL5 for the transmission. It has synchros on gears 2-5th.

adc100 · October 2001

I can't technically prove it, but Mobil indicated that the GL-5 was not recommended for the Cavalier Transmission. I have had some knowledgeable people give me the information which I posted. I can't swear its 100% accurate. I have had other vehicles where GL-5 was recommended for transmissions with synchros.

gsleve · October 2001

on their website informs of the differences between gl4 and gl5 the sell a gl4 mt90 which is pretty good I purchased mine off a site named synlubes.com pretty reasonable or purchase as Amsoil site

armtdm · October 2001

Both Amsoil and RedLine make a GL-4 gear oil, the Redline MT-90 and MTL are GL-4 Amsoil did not have the GL-4 weight I needed but does make a GL-4. I am a loyal Amsoil user but have to admit, the RedLine MT-90 worked miracles for my 6 spd. Rear ends are usually a GL-5 whereas the trannies are GL-4. Believe the GL-5 can injure a tranny calling for a GL-4. My AWD uses GL-5 in rear and GL-4 in tranny and front differential. .

aspenwhite · October 2001

Thank you ALL for the quick replays! this is an amazing forum. I'm ordering the Redline MTL GL-4 through Synlubes.com to replace the conventional Coastal brand rated GL-5, GL-4, GL-3 I had to use because I couldn't find any GL-4 Syn (I'm glad I didn't use GL5 Mobil-1). Thanks again.-AW

wtd44 · October 2001

Here is another site to check:

http://www.klotzlube.com

brorjace · October 2001

I think the problem with most GL-5 gear oils is that they are corrosive to brass/bronze used in parts like synchros and some bushings. So, for these applications, Redline (non-corrosive) may be the best option, pricey as it may be.

I know some guys restoring old Land Rovers who are using it for that reason alone. They certainly aren't using it looking for that last tenth percentile worth of performance! >;^)

As stated, they have lots of great info on their site and I've ordered through this guy with good results:

http://www.auto-motor-oil.com/

--- Bror Jace

gsleve · October 2001

Book Bits

Benefits of synthetic lubricants are one of the hottest topics on our Message Boards. We think that the book "Synthetic Lubricants and High Performance Functional Fluids" does a great job of describing just what can be expected from synthetics - and a whole lot more.

The performance benefits demonstrated by the various tests that have been described are meaningful to the automotive engineer or tribologist, but the average consumer is most interested in how much savings the use of a PAO-based product is going to generate.

This case describes the results of one study that considered both the increased fuel economy and the extended oil drain interval made possible with part- and full-synthetic PAO crankcase oils. The original calculations have been updated to reflect current prices for gasoline and oil in North America. The calculations are based on 15,000 miles of driving and a “do-it-yourself” oil change regimen. A pump price of $1.20/gal for gasoline has been chosen, and the oil has been priced at $1, $2, and $4/qt for the mineral oil, the part-synthetic, and the full-synthetic, respectively. If the oil is changed every 5,000 miles, there is almost no cost differential for the three oils because of the improved fuel economy gained with the synthetics. For the 15,000 mile distance, the savings over the mineral oil formulation is $3 with the part-synthetic oil, and a deficit of $3 is experienced with the full synthetic. If, however, there is only one drain for the full synthetic, the savings goes up to $11. In Europe, where gasoline is much more expensive and the differential in oil prices is less, the savings accrued by the use of synthetic crankcase oils will be much greater.

The use of lighter grades of crankcase oil is one answer to the need for increased fuel economy. The possible downside to this strategy would be a concurrent increase in oil consumption and the loss of sufficient high temperature viscosity for adequate engine protection. Studies show, however, that properly formulated PAO-based synthetic crankcase oils, with wide multigrade SAE performance classifications, can outperform mineral oil based formulations in both fuel and oil consumption, while maintaining superior engine protection.

Click here for more information about the book Synthetic Lubricants and High-Performance Functional Fluids.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

barnone · October 2001

click where?

johnnnyc · October 2001

I recently purchased a MB that recommended the use of Mobil 1 0W-40. Turns out, that's a tough viscosity to get in the States, Mobil stating that it's normally reserved for foreign manufacturers.

In absence of 0W-40, they recommended I go to a 5W-40, which could be found more readily in the US.

Does anyone know the difference between 0W and 5W, in terms of temperature range and viscosity? Does that 0W only come into play in seriously cold environments (the coldest it ever gets here in NYC would be about 0 deg F)?

Also - question about the tri-Synth from Mobil - I've seen a couple of people knock it for lack of Zinc (?). Is this a durability issue (where the oil would have to be drained at shorter intervals) or is it a lubrication/use issue?

Thanks,
-John

dhanley · October 2001

Ok, here's my math:

I use synthetic, and a self change is
oil : 24.05
filter : 8.50
total : $32.55

i do that about every 12K miles. If i used dino, i'd do it twice as often, say, every 6K miles:

oil 6.50
filter 8.50
total : 15.00 * 2 = 30.00

So, if i self-change i can save $2.55 by using dino oil. That's really not worth the extra work of doing an extra oil change.

Also, if i have someone else do it, the dino is more expensive due to paying labor coss twice. The labor on one change is more than 2.55.

If you figure i get an extra .1 mpg from that saves me $3-4 a year ( i was surprised, but i average 26.1 anyhow ) which covers the synthetic materials right there.

dave

armtdm · October 2001

Actually, Amsoil makes a 0W40 and markets it as a 4 stroke oil. (which auto engines are) You may wish to call them to determine if suitable for your use. They seem to have developed it for the off road ATV type of vehicle but worth a check out.

adc100 · October 2001

Here is Mobil 1's info on viscosty

https://dallnd6.dal.mobil.com/GIS/ MobilPDS.nsf/26b7c4b33367a4a086256665004e4266/9337c5cedcf5e32e852567b60056db77?OpenDocument

The defnition of SAE vscosity grades is:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/oildefinitions.html

The information concerning the Zinc is bogus (in my opinion) They have a new additive which supposedly enhances wear (alkylated aromatic):

http://mobil1.com/index.jsp

adc100 · October 2001

Here is Mobil 1's info on viscosty

https://dallnd6.dal.mobil.com/GIS/ MobilPDS.nsf/26b7c4b33367a4a086256665004e4266/9337c5cedcf5e32e852567b60056db77?OpenDocument

The defnition of SAE vscosity grades is:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/oildefinitions.html

The information concerning the Zinc is bogus (in my opinion) They have a new additive which supposedly enhances wear (alkylated aromatic):

http://mobil1.com/index.jsp

adc100 · October 2001

Here is Mobil 1's info on viscosty

https://dallnd6.dal.mobil.com/GIS/ MobilPDS.nsf/26b7c4b33367a4a086256665004e4266/9337c5cedcf5e32e852567b60056db77?OpenDocument

The defnition of SAE vscosity grades is:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/oildefinitions.html

The information concerning the Zinc is bogus (in my opinion) They have a new additive which supposedly enhances wear (alkylated aromatic):

http://mobil1.com/index.jsp

adc100 · October 2001

Here is Mobil 1's info on viscosty

https://dallnd6.dal.mobil.com/GIS/ MobilPDS.nsf/26b7c4b33367a4a086256665004e4266/9337c5cedcf5e32e852567b60056db77?OpenDocument

The defnition of SAE vscosity grades is:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/oildefinitions.html

The information concerning the Zinc is bogus (in my opinion) They have a new additive which supposedly enhances wear (alkylated aromatic):

http://mobil1.com/index.jsp

adc100 · October 2001

Here is Mobil 1's info on viscosty

https://dallnd6.dal.mobil.com/GIS/ MobilPDS.nsf/26b7c4b33367a4a086256665004e4266/9337c5cedcf5e32e852567b60056db77?OpenDocument

The defnition of SAE vscosity grades is:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/oildefinitions.html

The information concerning the Zinc is bogus (in my opinion) They have a new additive which supposedly enhances wear (alkylated aromatic):

http://mobil1.com/index.jsp

adc100 · October 2001

Here is Mobil 1's info on viscosty

https://dallnd6.dal.mobil.com/GIS/ MobilPDS.nsf/26b7c4b33367a4a086256665004e4266/9337c5cedcf5e32e852567b60056db77?OpenDocument

The defnition of SAE vscosity grades is:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/oildefinitions.html

The information concerning the Zinc is bogus (in my opinion) They have a new additive which supposedly enhances wear (alkylated aromatic):

http://mobil1.com/index.jsp

adc100 · October 2001

Here is Mobil 1's info on viscosty

https://dallnd6.dal.mobil.com/GIS/MobilPDS.nsf /26b7c4b33367a4a086256665004e4266/9337c5cedcf5e32e852567b60056db77?OpenDocument

Get rid of the space after.nsf- wouldn't let me paste that long address

The defnition of SAE vscosity grades is:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/oildefinitions.html

The information concerning the Zinc is bogus (in my opinion) They have a new additive which supposedly enhances wear (alkylated aromatic):

http://mobil1.com/index.jsp

aspenwhite · October 2001

Txs for the info and referral to www.auto-motor-oil.com, they are now offering free shipping if your order is over $30 so I saved $6.50 -Thanks again-AW

johnnnyc · October 2001

Thanks! Thanks! Thanks! Thanks! Thanks! Thanks! Thanks! Thanks!

hehe - that refresh can be a b1tch sometimes, eh?

The information was useful though.

yooper53 · October 2001

Recently changed oil using Quaker State Full Syn, Ultra Premium in my '01 Protege. The reason being $3.97 vs. $4.47 per qt. at wallyworld. Can there possibly be that much difference in quality between M1 and my choice? Was I being penny-wise and pound foolish? I don't think so but would like other opinions. Thanks.

csandste · October 2001

you can save an extra buck if you use 10W30.

adc100 · October 2001

Depends. If they are both equal then you are saving. They are both PAO's but Mobil 1 is the leader in the field. High Performance vehicles come with factory fill of Mobil. There are SAE reports documenting Mobil 1 results. Mobil has been the most up front in most of its info. Note: I'm not saying its the best, but there is every reason to predict it's better than QS. I would pay the extra few cents for the Mobil 1.

csandste · October 2001

I said that SuperTech was QS.

sdayalani · October 2001

is better than the best dino oil, irrespective of whether its PAO or anything else

wtd44 · October 2001

It is my understanding that there have been some fiascos on the market for synthetics. One needs to proceed with due caution. Not all is gold that glitters...

bottgers · October 2001

I can't believe someone actually posted on here that they go 25K between oil changes. That's crazy and/or lazy! There's no way I'd go that long using any oil, even the best. Even the best synthetic oil would be so contaminated and broken down by that point, I doubt it would be offering much protection for your engine. Another reason not to do this, as if one's required, filters aren't meant to go this long, not even the best ones. I can see going 15K if your really trying to get your money's worth, and you absolutely hate changing your oil, and only then if you're using a full synthetic. I change my full synthetic every 10K, and I use a Mobil 1 filter. I feel this is a good balance of giving my engine the best protection while getting my money's worth, as I only have to change my oil about once a year.

sdayalani · October 2001

bear in mind that at one point in time, mobil claimed their syn oil was good for 25k miles.
although it may still be as good (or maybe even better), they do not make that claim to fame anymore due to auto mfr concerns.

dlaughlin · October 2001

I have decided to go with Amsoil synthetic at the present time mainly because of the guarantee. I used Mobil 1 in the 70's with good results. I changed oil once a year with filter changes every 5K miles. At that time 5K miles was the standard. I work on aircraft and synthetic was used extensively. the government at the time stated "it never had to be changed, just filter." Mobil was said to have extended drain time but then all of a sudden auto manufactures stepped in and things changed. Then STP came out with a 25K or 35K oil change (can't remember which one) stamped on the can. I had oil tested several times and results were positive. After about4 years I had oil pan removed (road hazard damage) and was very clean. After the repair and getting lazy since filter was in hard to reach area I went to dino at the quick oil change outlets and the regular oil change intervals. Three years latter the timing belt broke and required major repairs. I saw the oil pan at that time and it was a mess. To me it showed dino does not compare with synthetics. I purchased a new car and oil filter is in easier location, so in 500 miles my first oil change is due and I am switching.

newcar31 · October 2001

If my owners manual recommends GL5 for the manual transmission then GL5 must not corrode the brass in the synchros of my particlular transmission right? I used Valvoline Synpower GL5 in my transmission.

sdayalani · October 2001

gl5 is fine if recommended.
my mazda calls for a 75w90 gl4 or gl5. i switched to mobil1 synthetic gear oil which is a gl5. my main reason for the switch was to eliminate notchy shifts during cold winter starts, but i wasnt too impressed with the results.

based on positive reviews, i'm planning to switch to redline mtl-90 next month. hopefully that should take care of the problem.

Synthetic motor oil

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