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Comments
Newcar31, if they recommend GL-5, I bet most brands of that stuff are safe. Don't think Redline will make an improvement? Don't be so sure. That's the best aspect of Redline MTL ... its cold weather performance. And despite the fact that you JUST changed your fluid, manual tranny fluid changes are cheap to do as you only need about 2 quarts ... depending on manufacturer. Trying Redline MTL or MT-90 is only about a $16 experiment. That's pretty cheap as far as automotive mods go. >;^)
As for comparisons between synthetics, the best comparison I've seen is on Redline's site and they showed that their oil was better than other synthetics ... but mostly when pushed to near-racing conditions which few cars see. They also only HINT at which other brands they are comparing their oil too.
Basically, I'm not satisfied with what I've seen so far.
So, If anyone has some other links to other synth oil studies, please post them.
--- Bror Jace
its listed in the owners manual.
Information please??
Even as a Mobil 1 user, I think it would be difficult (can you say expensive) to prove a couple of oils are better. That would mean very extensive testing of say 6 to 8 differerent oils. Engines need to be run in double/tripple Sequence Tests and then torn down and evaluated. Unfortunately I highly doubt this report did that.
I think I would have seen it if it existed.
Oil does not break down or get contaminated with acids etc. (based upon oil analysis ) but it does get silicon build up in my case.
Amsoil's are mostly GL-5 but they do make one 80W90 GL-4.
{:^>
Also, Redline has an unparalleled reputation amongst road-racers. Add this all up and I thought their stuff was worth a try ... and I was right.
Yes, MTL is a bit lighter than MT-90 (both are made by Redline). If you go to their site:
www.redlineoil.com
You'll see the specs for both (and others) so you'll know which is appropriate for any given application. Of course, they also have the thicker gear oils for rear-ends, etc ...
--- Bror Jace
One of my primary reasons for using Amsoil, besides good results over past 10 years, is that I can drive up to my jobber who keeps inventory and pick it off of the shelf and drive home. Not true for most people that have to have it shipped and most dealers also do not keep inventory.
Again, if you look at the marketing angle RedLine advertising is built upon racing and the assumption is that if the products are great for racing (where they change lubricants after every race) they are great for the average driver. We all know that this ain't necessarily so! Amsoil is more of the long haul average driver. Both great oils as is Mobil 1, just that RedLine is almost $3/quart more for me then Amsoil which I can get at $4.35/quart, most Redline quotes are $7.75/quart. Also, some RedLine dealers also sell Hasting filters as does Amsoil and of course Baldwin/Hastings makes the filters for Amsoil as well.
Some day CR will test the most popular synthetic oils for lubricatiuon, durability etc. and shed some light but truly independent tests I have never seen on synthetic oils.
I have read the Redline propaganda also and I must say that it sounded good. But as armtdm pointed out, it it good for the long term? How does it do on seals?? Im sure that if you desired the least wear possible and had no fear of seal deterioration or had unlimited funds to change frequently you would be happy. I would like to see them published in SAE also. In this way their data would be independently evaluated. This isn't sour grapes on my part-just some babbling.
how many of our cars actually come close to the conditions of what taxicabs go through?
cabs dont see as many cold starts as we do, they keep running most of the day, they dont go thru "stop and go" conditions the way we do.
as far as servicing is concerned, cabs come under the classification of "normal service" whereas most of us fall under the "severe service" category.
However, taxis in general, and the NY City yellow cabs in particular, endure a lot of "stop and go". Practically they are driven in this mode all the time when not idle. Traffic light to traffic light, jam to jam, in rather dense traffic.
Severe service by any definition.
By the way, I live in 75-80 miles from NY City. Most of my colleagues never drive here, prefering train, even bus, to their own cars when they need to be in the city. Americans born in America, not immigrans.
Later
Later,
Al
thanks a lot guy
First, no condensation: engines are always hot. Second, not enough time to rust. How long they are used, 30 months / 300K miles?
I'm not saying that the taxicab test was well done or technical enough in its approach; just saying that we don't really know for sure.
Any Consumers Union engineers out there?
There is also less valve noise on start up after sitting a couple days.
I plan on drains every 6 to 7k and use honda filters.
I did use the "snake oil" additive "Prolong" once in this car but the rest of the time I used a synthetic motor oil like Castrol Syntec (before and after reformulation) Mobil 1 and Valvoline Synpower. For the piston slap, I like to blame the Prolong which contains a corroding ingredient (and I'll OBVIOUSLY never use it again) along with the fact that I drive this car HARD - sustained high-speed cruises at 4,000-4,500 rpms for hours at a time. For example, around Labor Day, I drove from Saratoga, New York all the way up to Alexandria Bay and the "Thousand Islands" region and back in one day ... a total of 450 miles. Yes, as you can imagine, I MIGHT HAVE broken the speed limit on occasion during that trip. >;^)
So, I am trying to make the most of the lil' beast now ... and I trust Redline to do that more than anything else.
As for the way Redline is priced, with each dealer being a little different, that's fine with me. That's the way most products are sold in the world. Some will have low prices with others a little higher but with free or cheaper shipping. Depending on how you buy one or the other will work out better for you. Oh, and if you have a specialty, high-performance automotive store near you, that guy might be a Redline dealer. For example there's a Honda Dealer in Manchester Connecticut that sells about a third of Redline's product range. So, it's not just mail-order, although when asked for referrals by on-line friends and fellow enthusiasts, they are the easiest to provide.
As for 'racing' vs. 'street' oils, Redline explains this in detail on their site. Finding all the data on their site can be tricky as similar topics are discussed in a few different places. Basically, the difference comes down to the additive package. Racing oils are mostly lubricant with just a couple additives while the street oils need more detergents, anti-corrosion compounds and acid neutralizers for use over a much longer period of time.
--- Bror Jace
atleast in my case it did ..from valvoline to mobil1 gave me an increase of almost 3mpg, plus the engine sounded smoother.
It makes no sense to me that people would prefer to know that all Amsoil dealers charge the same price. Wouldn't it be better if some dealers sold it for less than others, so you had the opportunity to seek out the best price? That's kinda what this country is all about.
Redline and some others (Stash Tea & Natures Way herbal products come immediately to mind) merely sell to the end user only as a last resort and they specifically price their products so that any dealer can undercut them, at least a little. This approach balances support of their dealer network (and no dealer will take on a product line if they know the home office will sell directly cheaper than they can) while making sure they are not 100% reliant on their dealers. I think the first time I used MTL I ordered it directly from Redline in California (I live in upstate NY) and it cost me $10 per quart including S&H!
But now, in an age of e-commerce and catalog sales where you aren't dependent on one local dealer, I could see them coming out with a policy any day that says they won't sell directly to end users but instead will send you a listing of their dealers. One thing about the direct sales they DO make, however, is that the margins on those sales are enormous. Products are usually marked up 100% every time they pass from one party to another in a typical automotive product distribution chain so by going from factory to end user, the margin is often 200-400% if sold at the MSRP... which is usually the case.
--- Bror Jace
ADC100, thanks for the encouraging advice. My 'Lil Honda runs like a top once warmed up ... and starts right up even in sub-zero temps. My Dad's a big Ford man and he had to get rid of his 1994 Mercury with Fords 4.6L engine. The thing ran fine for about 80,000 miles but then it just limped along and we replaced everything trying to get it running normal and all we were able to do was get it to survive. Dad dumped the thing with "only" 130,000 miles on it. I gotta keep my Honda longer than that. >;^) That means at least another year and a half.
As for Redline motor oil, I'm basing my (limited) enthusiasm for the stuff based on there things:
1) The impressive data they have on their own site comparing their oils to others.
2) Their unparalleled reputation in the racing community
3) My experience with some of their other products like MTL and SI-1 fuel injector cleaner which are very impressive.
Two out of the above three might be reason enough to use their stuff, but when you add all these together, I'm pretty confident I'm putting the best stuff available in my car.
--- Bror Jace
Unfortunately, the woman's husband, who maintained the car, wasn't home at the time and she couldn't tell me what kind of oil he used, but she did say he was very maticulate about maintaining it. That was obvious. She sold me the car for $1100.
I took the car home and changed the oil and filter. Even the bottom of the engine was grease and oil free. I filled the engine with full synthetic, and installed a Puralator Pure One filter (I usually use a Mobil 1 filter, but I had to settle for the second best filter this time).
I saw a couple of posts mentioning Hondas, and just thought I'd mention mine. I have little doubt this car will easily go over 200,000 with no trouble, and I think using full synthetic will help.
I have seem some synthetics for about $2 a quart-- and target has mobil 1 for $2.70 a few months back.. I'm very sorry i didn't buy a bunch. Then again, i only change oil about one a year, so when you figure storage costs, and intrest, ummm....
dave
The phenomenon is: "How high will the suckers let us push the price?"
Have you priced out the equipment for making ethylene gas into a liquid recently? Has the price of ethylene gas gone up or down much in the past 5 or 10 years? How much of that $3.00 per quart would go towards bottling and distributing the product?
Just wondering. >;^)
--- Bror Jace
I really do wish someone like consumer reports would do a test and settle the issue once an for all. BMW uses castrol syntec, and i wonder why.
dave
Probably about the same as with conventional, natural oil. The same bottles, the same transportation, storage costs, etc.
....
Redline MTL and MT-90 are GL-4 and their 75W90 and a couple others are GL-5. If you contact Redline and tell them what climate you live in and what your manual calls for, they'll tell you what's the best to use. Some of their dealers like this guy could find out for you as well:
http://www.auto-motor-oil.com/
As for economics, you have to remember that ALL motor oils have remained fairly stable in price over the past 15+ years. I've been buying synthetics for over a decade and I can't remember when Mobil 1 was regularly priced at less than $3.50 per quart (individual bottles). Normal oil hovered around $1 per quart for well over a decade starting in the 80s. Now, those oils are around to $1.50-75 per quart. It seems the "conventional" oils have been increasing more in price as opposed to the synthetics which have risen to only $4.00-4.50 per quart. I'm certainly not complaining about price stability like that.
Want to be angry at someone? Aim your agression at Castrol. They switched their formula to a new one for Syntec that is reportedly only half as expensive as their old stuff ... yet they still charge $4.50 per quart retail. Talk about a rip-off! >:^O
Yes, if you buy the 4-5 quart jugs, both kinds of oil are cheaper ... but I'm trying to compare apples-to-apples here.
adc100, Mobil has a special synthetic for synchromesh transmissions now? I didn't know that.
--- Bror Jace