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Synthetic motor oil

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Comments

  • gyegye Member Posts: 31
    Anybody has opinion/experience on Pennzoil Synthetic? Because I always used Pennzoil dino oil and plan to blend it with some synthetic, I guess same brand oil will be more compatible as formula, additives are closer related.

    Thanks!
  • adc100adc100 Member Posts: 1,521
    Is not a PAO (polyalphaolefin). It is a modified mineral oil (severely cracked). The courts ruled they can call it a synthetic. Both it and Castrol are certainly better than a straight mineral oil. They cost less to make and are charging the same price. I would not use either.
  • dhanleydhanley Member Posts: 1,531
    mobil 1 and puralator--that's what i chose, too.

    Well, if it's a tight engine, and the drive is easy, i'd guess 10,000 miles is a-ok.

    If the car smokes, the drive is all stop & go, i'd aim lower.

    dave
  • gmlover1gmlover1 Member Posts: 60
    Dose anyone here have an idea how much longer an engine will last with synthetic oil. I sold my last car with 175,000 miles on it, I had changed the oil every 4,000 and never paid more than $1.00 a quart.
  • dhanleydhanley Member Posts: 1,531
    Depends. I have heard of engines being in new compression spec after 250,000 miles. Mobil i has a million mile engine like this with its oil changed every 7,500.

    175,000 miles on an engine is ok, but there's a lot more to it than just running. Does it still make full power and fly through emissions at 150,000? Does it stay cool when it's 110F out and you have the AC blasting in stop & go? Etc.

    Never paying over $1 a quart simply doesn't impress me, as i think it's cheaper to pay $4 a quart and not have to do it every 3,000-4,000 miles, and maybe save a little gas along the way.

    dave
  • adc100adc100 Member Posts: 1,521
    Mobil has done tests on GM V 6's with conventional and syn oil. Both could go 200K. But the syn did it with 15K oil changes and significantly less wear. As they stated the engines with syn showed almost "no wear" . Key for me is fewer oil changes. Cost differences including improved milage with syn make the difference chump change.
  • dhanleydhanley Member Posts: 1,531
    "That engine was a 4.3 litter"

    That's a great little freudian slip.

    You response still doesn't answer any of the points i raised. There's a big difference between good and good enough.

    dave
  • bcollisonbcollison Member Posts: 24
    I have a 2001 F-150 4x4 with the 5.4L SOHC V-8. It has about 5,000 miles on it. I think I'll do this with 3 filter changes instead of 2. I'll use the Motorcraft filter instead of the Purolator. I read in the oil filter discussion board the Motorcraft filter is the same thing as the Purolator Pure Oil at half the price. The Motorcraft filter has the anti-drainback valve in it too (FL-820S). I'll analyze the oil after about 7-8,000 miles. Anyone know a good service that is reasonable in Price?
  • adc100adc100 Member Posts: 1,521
    Is that a large filter? Did ford go away from the FL-1A Filter???
  • n8wvin8wvi Member Posts: 43
    I understand why synth is better during startups, especially during cold weather. But could someone explain what makes synths better for frequent short trips? How can it get rid of the moisture better than dino?
  • adc100adc100 Member Posts: 1,521
    Probably doesn't get rid of moisture better. But it does lubricate better so that would help negate effects of moisture.

    The article "Aunt Minnie Test" (7K-5 year-no oil change) indicated that the inherent ability of syn to reduce deposits due to less oxidation, better additive package (TBN remained high), less wear inherent in synthetics was responsible. In a word-synthetics counterbalance the bad effects of short trip driving.
  • corvettecorvette Member Posts: 11,291
    That sounds interesting. I would like to read that article if you have the link, adc100. I tried a Google search to no avail.
  • bcollisonbcollison Member Posts: 24
    Yeah the FL-820S is smaller. It fits on the engine horizontally. I wish it had the larger filter (FL-1).
  • dhanleydhanley Member Posts: 1,531
    My understanding is that while thay cannot dispose of acids & water any better than regular oil, they can buffer them much more ( have a much higher damage-free capacity ) so your engine is protected until you eventually get around to burning them off.

    dave
  • adc100adc100 Member Posts: 1,521
    Email me at adc100@yahoo.com. It's not available on the internet (for free that is)

    bcolllision: I hate those horizontal filters. Engine runs too long without oil. You can't fill them first-Ford likes to do that. You may be better changing filters less often due to this. Will the FL-1A fit on that existing base? I assume not.
  • thewolverinethewolverine Member Posts: 111
    Last change I moved to Mobil 1 5W-30 for my 2001 Toyota Sienna (at 15K). Brought a case in - had my guy do the change and got the emptys back for recycling.

    As I approach 20K the engine is running just a little rougher and when I check the oil it's dark and approaching black. I'll be doing another change shortly.

    Is this supposed to happen? - I'm a little worried the Mobil 1 didn't make it into my van - am I just being paranoid or what?
  • dhanleydhanley Member Posts: 1,531
    If your engine had a considerable amount of sludge in in, the mobil 1 should have picked it up.

    IF that still happens after a few changes, then i'd worry.

    My old saturn did that to mobil 1 because the valve guides were messed up.

    dave
  • csandstecsandste Member Posts: 1,866
    Given some of the horror stories in the sludge thread (Sienna seems to be the worst), I certainly hope your "guy" is the dealer. If you put "Sienna" and "sludge" into Google you'll get a ton of listings that would set your hair on end. Toyota will try to skip out on their responsibilities regarding their warranty requirements on sludged engines if they can possibly do so.
  • adc100adc100 Member Posts: 1,521
    1. Did you check the oil right after the new change. Mobil 5W-30 is almost clear. You would have been able to tell then.

    2. Mobil will clean up the gunk so your first change to syn will get darker quicker.

    3. Did it require any oil additions during this period of time?? Cars where the oil gets darker quicker generally use more oil (in my experience)

    4. Like dhanley says-give it a couple of changes
  • jfz219jfz219 Member Posts: 63
    I used a Pure One filter and 5W30 Mobil 1 at 19600 on my 2001 T&C van. I changed at 3000-5000 mile intervals with dino until then. I found no oil consumption between changes. The very dark oil prompted me to change to synthetic. The Mobil 1 was the color of honey for about 1000 miles. At 5600 miles the oil was very dark with no consumption. I changed at that point with another Pure One and 5W30 synthetic Valvolene. I switched brands because of lack of availability of Mobil 1 in that weight.

    I will monitor color and consumption and anticipate changing according to warrantee rec.
  • armtdmarmtdm Member Posts: 2,057
    What I have started to do is take the dipstick and place a few drops on an aluminum foil type of background and it is amazing how honey to clear that oil will appear under that light. Not dark at all but it looks dark on the dipstick.

    Now if it black on the foil then ouch!

    My cars remain relatively honey colored through 7,500 miles. Not that Amsoil is any better then MObil 1 just my cars that remain that way. Also, if you check when warm the oil is much clearer then when cold so the check should be consistent as to hot or cold when you do it.
  • gmlover1gmlover1 Member Posts: 60
    Some engines are just dirtier than others. I've also found that driving habits affect oil color. The car I drive now used to be my wife's, when she drove it maybe 7500 miles a year the oil turned black, now that I drive it twice that the oil turns light brown between oil changes. That's your normal and sever.
  • thewolverinethewolverine Member Posts: 111
    First - thanks to all who replied (dhanley, csandste, adc100, jfz219, armtdm, gmlover1) - definitely appreciated.

    CSANDSTE - yes, I'm well aware of the Sienna Sludge dance - I also have a 98 (28K) that I'm about to move to Mobil 1.

    I've had no sludge symptoms in either Sienna,have changed oil at 3 - 4K (5k recommended in the manuals) and kept all receipts on the 2001 and most on the 1998 (since I started hearing about sludge) - PLUS ALL oil changes have been done by one of two Toyota Dealers (hey - I'm lazy!). With a family full of lawyers I hope I'm prepared to warranty wrestle with Toyota!

    Yes, I've seen all the Sienna Sludge posts - what I don't understand is if it's prevelent and not caused by poor maintenance why the Feds haven't stepped in for a recall.

    ADC100 -

    1)Yes, I checked the oil right after the change (as always) - oil was clear and at the right level.
    2) Makes sense to me - for the 2001 I've changed every 3K to break it in - if it has gunk after that - scary as I don't stress the engine when driving.
    3)Oil level is fine - definitely not eating oil - just passed Connecticut emissions (as did the 98) with flying colors and mileage is rock solid at 24 mpg.

    ARMDTM - I'll try that foil test tonight!

    I think you guys are right - let's just wait a few changes.
  • alex17alex17 Member Posts: 35
    I have a 2001 Toyota Tacoma V6 that I have switched to synthetic at 5000 miles. The first chage was done at WalMart and I think they put in Castrol Syntec 5W30. That went until 12000 miles when I changed the oil myself. The color was dark but not like using dino oil. I put in Mobil 1 5W30 and now at 18300 miles it looks like the oil hasn't even been used. Very very Clear. This really suprised me because I used to have a 1997 F150 4.6L V8 which I ran synthetic in from 3000 miles and change every 5000 miles. The oil was dark as night. I guess the Toyota engine is cleaner so far??. My driving habits have remained constant for the past several years so that isn't the cause. Toyota's extended service intervals is 7500 miles, can I go 10,000 miles between changes using Mobil 1? What about 15,000? How often should I do a filter change? if I wait 10,000 or 15,000?

    Will changing my transmission oil to synthetic be of any benefit?
  • dhanleydhanley Member Posts: 1,531
    If the syntheti matches your trans it should go longer and reduce wear.

    A person once posted on edmunds who had a celica. He ( said he ) put in mobil 1 at 5,000 miles and never changed it. He changed the filter every 5,000, lost a quart in the process, and added a fresh quart. Apparently engine was ok at 220,000 miles.

    I'm not that brave! But i feel okay obeying my oil change light and doing the oil every 12-14K.

    dave
  • brorjacebrorjace Member Posts: 588
    In addition to that foil test, you can put a drop on your finger and quickly rub it off. If it leaves a sooty stain, the oil is long overdue for a change. What remains on your finger are the particles that are not properly held in suspension showing that the additive package's limits have been surpassed.

    Yes, I've noticed that Castrol Syntec has always been a very 'clean looking' oil both before and after their extensive reformulation in 1998. This is not necessarily a good thing as the oil may be light in the area of detergents/dispersents. So, deposits MAY be accumulating in somewhere deep inside your motor. When I switched to other oils afterwords, they seemed to darken quite quickly suggesting they were finding goo that the Castrol left in place. Of course, this is a perfectly anecdotal observation and not definitive. >;^)

    Greg, I used Pennzoil nearly a year ago to clean out my car because they had just reformulated their dino oils and were heavy on dispersants. The oil looked a medium brown after 3 weeks when I dumped it and the filter.

    Alex17, what kind of tranny do you have ... manual or automatic? If a stickshift, what weight does your owners manual call for?

    --- Bror Jace
  • alex17alex17 Member Posts: 35
    I have a Auto Tranny.
  • adc100adc100 Member Posts: 1,521
    My comfort level is 1 year or 12K whichever comes first. For me that puts a filter every 5 or 6K or 6 months which I am comfortable with. Since I use the high efficiency ones Mobil 1 or Pure One that's about my linit. If you put on say 15 K or so a year cou could change change filters at say 5K and then at 10K evaluate the oil for clarity or like brorjace says. Then make a decision as to whether to change or not. Now I realize that clarity is not a true test of the oil's condition. However with Mobil 1 I know that the oil definitely cleans things up and has been tested by Mobil to safely go 25K in a sound engine. They have also run many tests at 15K with a filter at 7.5K and the engines had little wear after 200K. So for me that is a practical limit (15K). So to sumarize, I would change filters at this point.

    I would also switch the auto trans to Mobil 1. If it has a plug on the pan you probably change about half the oil at a time. 3 dtains gets you about 90% synthetic oil. I know that's expensive at 6 bucks a quart, but its less hassle and cheaper than dropping the pan.
  • kansankansan Member Posts: 115
    Isn't the transmission filter somewhere inside the pan? I've never seen one under the car when I change the oil. If this is the case, if you don't drop the pan when you change the transmission fluid and just drain it out a plug, the old dirty filter will still be there no matter how many times you drain it. (I've never seen a transmission pan plug under any of the cars I've been under, but maybe some have them.) Correct me if I'm wrong, because I've always had the transmission fluid change at a shop for $50, so am not sure where the transmission filter is, or what it looks like.
  • adc100adc100 Member Posts: 1,521
    You shouldn't really need a filter at this point yet. You could check the manual. Yea usually the filter is accessible by removing the pan. Too much hassle for me to deal with also. Mr. Goodwrench job.
  • armtdmarmtdm Member Posts: 2,057
    Most GM products do not have a plug. Most Japanese do, my Toyota does as does my Mystique and Isuzu. Ford has no filter. Toyota I had changed once (actually a screen more then a filter) at 25,000 when I converted fluid to synthetic. Changed the fluid (drain and fill) at 55,000, 85,000 116,000 and 136,000 but have not changed the filter since that initial one.
  • mrdetailermrdetailer Member Posts: 1,118
    Why give Toyota a bunch of ammunition to deny your claim in the rare case that a serious engine problem arises?

    During the guarantee period don't go beyond the normal service level interval.

    Sure it may go longer, but it's not worth the potential monetary loss for a denied claim.
  • armtdmarmtdm Member Posts: 2,057
    I go beyond the recommended manual changes also. Why, because I believe that it makes no difference as the dealer will do everything to deny the claim anyway but I am willing to go to court. They must prove that the oil was the cause of the failure, and that the failure to change it alone had nothing to do with it. Plus, in my case I have oil analysis to back it up.

    It is extremeley extremely rare that the failure to change oil would cause a catastrophic engine fialure. Usually premature wear but htat would nto show up until after the warranty is long gone.
  • ywilsonywilson Member Posts: 135
    I have a 2000 Durango with the 4.7 motor. I switched to synth's after 300 miles. I now have 46,000 miles built up. I just checked my oil after 5000 miles and it is still clear. I was pleasantly surprised at this. The dealer(owners manual) says change oil every 7500 miles! I would not try this with the Dino juice at all. I have stayed with a 5000 mile change but since this latest development I am going to extend to the 7500 routine. I use Mobil 1, or Amsoil synth's. I also have only used the Amsoil SDF oil filters since new. I am the type of person who has used synth's since forever and I always will. Had an 87 SAAB 9000 Turbo that had 285,000+ miles. I keep my cars till the doors fall off and using synth's throughout my vehicles for all lubricants I feel that is just what is going to happen.
  • n8wvin8wvi Member Posts: 43
    Anybody know why Mobil1 doesn't carry the above certifications yet? I've asked them several times when it will and all I get is "I don't know". I know Castrol is a fake rip off, but I think Valvoline is the real thing and I'm considering switching. Any opinions?

    Thanks guys,
    Dave
  • csandstecsandste Member Posts: 1,866
    will try to get rid of their present stock of goods before making the change and that switch over is strictly a matter of what's in the warehouse.
  • charlesb_lacharlesb_la Member Posts: 37
    From Mobil's website

    "Mobil 1 exceeds API service ratings SJ/CF. Mobil 1 0W-30, 0W-40, 5W-30 and 10W-30 also meet ILSAC GF-2 requirements. As an SJ/CF rated oil, Mobil 1 can be used wherever an API SH, SG, SF or SE oil is called for in the owner's manual. As a CF rated oil, Mobil 1 can also be used in diesel engines calling for a CD oil.

    In addition, later in 2001, Mobil 1 will exceed the newest certification standards being implemented on that date – ILSAC GF-3 and API Service SL"

    IMO Mobil1 is the the real deal and I see no reason to switch.
  • n8wvin8wvi Member Posts: 43
    Normally, I would agree, but Mobil says their not even MANUFACTURING it yet, and the Valvoline is already on the store shelves. When I called their 800 number today, I actually got something more concrete than "I don't know". He said "Sometime next year". I'm not kidding, that was the best answer he could give me. It just makes me wonder what's going on.
  • charlesb_lacharlesb_la Member Posts: 37
    Here are a few more quotes from Mobil's website. I find it hard to believe that their standard oil and their blend meet these specifications and their fully synthetic dosen't. Especially when it is well know to be a top performer. My guess is that it met the specifications already and is currently in the certification process.The answers from the phone reps are puzzling but I have called them with questions before and have delt with some clueless ones. I have found their email service much better. I'll send them an email Mon. and post whatever answer I get.

    "Mobil Drive Clean Blend 5W-30 and Mobil Drive Clean Blend 10W-30 are recommended for gasoline fueled automobiles and light duty trucks requiring an API SL, SJ or SH product or ILSAC GF-3 (Starburst Certification Symbol). Also, these products meet the light-duty diesel engine requirements, API CF."

    "Mobil Drive Clean Oil 5W-30 and Mobil Drive Clean Oil 10W-30 are recommended for gasoline fueled automobiles and light duty trucks requiring an API SL , SJ or SH product. They meet ILSAC GF-3 (Starburst Certification Symbol)."
  • brorjacebrorjace Member Posts: 588
    It may just be a matter of certification. Mobil 1 has a formula they THINK will mee the "SL" standard ... but it hasn't been tested by API or SAE yet.

    As for customer service, Valvoline has Mobil beat seven ways to Sunday. That may or may not reflect the quality of their oil.

    I'd feel a little safer going with Valvoline Synpower over Mobil 1 ... especially with Mobil 1 having less ZDDP in it.

    --- Bror Jace
  • scirocco22scirocco22 Member Posts: 721
    I have a one year old Audi A4 with a 1.8T engine. It says in the owner's manual that it's factory fill is 0W-30. I'm assuming that this is synthetic because I've never seen dino oil in that weight. I get various responses from both the manufacturer and various dealers whether it is true that this engine comes from the factory with synthetic or not. I notice that Mobil 1 now has a 0W-40 available which evidently is formulated with European imports in mind (according to their web-site: http://www.mobil1.com/products/trisynth/oil_0w40.jsp)

    My questions are: Is the 0W-30, in fact, exclusively a synthetic weight or is dino oil available in that weight (I've haven't ever seen 0W-30 conventional oil)? And, what are the advantages or disadvantages of using Mobil 1 0W-40 as opposed to 0W-30?

    I'm sorry if these questions have already been discussed before on this board. I haven't had the chance to scroll back through the old topics that you folks have already discussed on this forum. I'll try to do that when I have more time.

    TIA

    --'rocco
  • brorjacebrorjace Member Posts: 588
    'rocco,
    I think you are right. The only 0W30 oils I know about are all synthetic: Redline (racing only), Mobil 1 and Amsoil. Any other formula you are likely to run into will be a synthetic/dino blend of some sort, whether they advertise this fact or not.

    Personally, I wouldn't go with a 0W40. The extreme spread between its cold-weather weight (0) and the operating temp weight (40) means this lightweight stuff is heavily pumped up with viscosity improving 'goo' which is fairly unstable and breaks down rather quickly ... especially under the high-stress, high-rpm operation one might enjoy while piloting a pocket rocket like the Audi TT.

    When this 'viscosity improver' breaks down, some of it boils off through the PCV system while the rest forms sludge and hard deposits in your engine.

    For hard use, I'd move up to a 5W30 or even a 10W30. The European oils are spec'd out the way they are largely because of politics. They want to see as little oil being used so they spec out a wide-spread synthetic oil that will give you hair-better fuel economy and then tell you to leave this unstable stuff in the motor for an extended time like 10-12,000 miles. Who cares if it is almost unheard of for them to get more than 100-150,000 miles from an engine?

    While drain intervals of this length are possible, I'd start out with a more stable weight of oil like 10W30 instead of an extreme-spread formula.

    --- Bror Jace
  • dhanleydhanley Member Posts: 1,531
    My car had used the bmw synthetics ( castrol, i think ) until about 62K miles. About 10K miles per change, and the oil still looked pretty clean at oil change time. I just switched to mobil one tri-synthetic this change, and after 3,000 miles it looks pretty dirty. No sign of fuel smell in the oil, or burning. Just dark, and more opaque than usual.

    My preliminary conclusion is that the mobil picked up some gunk the other "synthetic" was leaving behind. So, i may be more aggressive with the oil change this time, to clean this stuff out, eg, not go 12,000 miles.

    I guess the real test will be to change it again and see if is stays clear longer.

    dave
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    #2445

    If I may ask, what motivated you to change from BMW stock oil (Castrol?) to Mobil One?

    I have been using Mobil One (5-30W, and/or 10-30W) on Toyota Lancruisers with 15,000 mile intervals. Consumption of oil has been roughly 1/4-1/2 qt at the 14,000 mile marker. Engine oil sludge has been a total non issue (one had app 250,000 miles, the other 128,000 miles). Also I have another one (94,000 miles) , that the valve covers are taken off for periodic valve adjustment and the mechanics are impressed that the tolerances are near factory spec. The rest have scheduled valve checks at the 60,000 mile marker, again near factory specs. Again, the engines are clean as a whistle.
  • dhanleydhanley Member Posts: 1,531
    I changed from the bmw stock to mobil one because i found the bmw stock was castrol, and other sources led me to believe that mobil one was a significant improvement, most especially because castrol is derived from dino stock.

    If my conclusion about the mobil 1 picking up deposits is correct, then i guessed right. Of course, i suppose there are other possible conclusions. I do recall bjorace speculating that castrol may be low in detergents/dispersants.

    Pretty soon after the oil change, i went on an 1800 mile road trip, if that makes any difference.

    I also switched to the 15w50, and i have also seen a very slight decline in fuel efficency ( .1 to .2 mpg ) though there are other factors.. Season, altitude, and oxygenated gas among them.

    dave
  • brorjacebrorjace Member Posts: 588
    Dave,
    Your reasoning mirrors my own. I believe that Castrol's philosophy has been for a while to stress lubricants and other additives over dispersants/detergents.

    There is some logic in this as a little sludge and goo hidden away in some corners is usually fairly harmless ... and an oil's primary job is to lubricate. The problem is that over time this sludge can build up ... and I believe that's what happened with my cars (an Integra and a Civic) as well as yours.

    My problem is that when I switch to some other oil ... ANY oil other than Castrol Syntec ... it began to turn dirty almost immediately meaning that the amount of built-up sludge is bordering on severe and the Castrol oil (I've used Syntec since 1992-3) simply isn't doing its job in keeping the inside of the motor clean ... especially over the long run.

    Once your motor has a build up of sludge, I think the only way to safely clean it is a series of short-interval oil changes ... or taking the motor apart which is just too extreme.

    --- Bror Jace
  • duperduper Member Posts: 127
    I plan to switch over to Mobile 1 this weekend. I drive a Pathfinder with 54k miles on it. Is there anything I should be looking out for? Any tips?
    Can 10W30 safely replace 5W30 without any long term affect? I saw a box of 10W30 (6 qrtz) for $21 at local Cosco and it's too good to pass up. Too bad Cosco doesn't carry 5W30.

    Thanks.

    ....
  • ywilsonywilson Member Posts: 135
    I believe that you will have no problems with the switch. I use synth fully in my truck and in my cars before. No problems and I like the extra protection against viscosity breakdown. You can go a little farther between changes and make sure you use a good oil filter. I use amsoil filters myself but have also been told that mobil 1 filters are good also. The mobil filters are easier to come by (Pep Boys and Walmart) and are less expensive. 10w30 and 5w30 are interchangeable. You should have no problems.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    #2449

    You should have absolutely no problem either with the switch to synthetic or the switch to 10-30w. One thing, check your manual to verify the oil viscosity.
  • scirocco22scirocco22 Member Posts: 721
    Bror Jace-- A belated thank you for your comments to my question of "zero" weights. I have heard before the arguments about the instability of using such large spreads so I called Mobil 1 a few months back and they assured me that the newer viscosity enhancers are improved to the point that they no longer become unstable as easily. I tend to be skeptical of this information and am still leaning toward believing the facts that you stated. However, the reason I'm on-the-fence over this is that most Audi enthusiasts (and other German car owners) now seem to be recommending the use of at least 0W-30 if not the new 0W-40. What you said makes such good sense that I'm now considering separating from the pack and not doing what everybody else is doing. A compromise might be just to go with the 5W-30 ...I don't know, I'll be thinking about it a bit more. Thanx again for your response!

    --'rocco
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