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Synthetic motor oil

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Comments

  • bobistheoilguybobistheoilguy Member Posts: 270
    not to upset anyone.
  • chikoochikoo Member Posts: 3,008
    How good is it?
    How can a tiny company like AMSOIL bring up a ATF that satisfies all the big requirements of Dexron/Mercon/F type/Chrysler ?

    Sounds fishy?

    Anything to watch out if I were to use it in a Auto Tranny that calls for DexronIII/Mercon?
  • armtdmarmtdm Member Posts: 2,057
    Since 1994 or so I have used the Amsoil Universal Synthetic ATF in the following autos:
    Toyota Camry originally switched at 25,000, now 143,000 changed about every 30,000
    Chev Corsica, changed at 49,000 (when acquired) then every 30,000 accident killed it at 128,000
    Mercury Mystique changed at 30,000, now at 67,000
    Isuzu Rodeo, changed at 57,000 (when acquired) now at 73,000.
    Nissan Maxima switched around 30,000 sold at 60,000 no problem.
    The only manufacturer I have not used this on is Chrysler. It is definitely a replacement for Dexron III and Mercon V they saly also Chrysler + 3 or 4 but I have not tired it in a Chrysler.

    It is not a replacement for Ford Type F. I would not use it for Type F older Ford Trannies and some Ford PS units still use the Type F, my Mystique even though the tranny fluid is Mercon V.

    Stuff does work!
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    #3102/3103

    I also have switched to Mobil One synthetic ATF. Not only is it a superior lubricant to normal ATF, but I seemed to have gained a little more mpg (1) and also the shifting is way smoother.
  • chikoochikoo Member Posts: 3,008
    bottle states *Carrier oil is not synthetic*

    What is that supposed to mean?

    Is AMSOIL ATF 100% fully synthetic or does it have catches like Mobil 1?

    To Armtdm, did u notice any changes in shift quality, especially when cold at 20F or so?
    Was it better shifting(quick,precise) as compared to regular ATF?
  • armtdmarmtdm Member Posts: 2,057
    I honestly have not seen a difference nor have I really looked or tried to notice any with the synthetic ATF plus, where I live, Ric, VA the temp has never gotten below +10 F in the years I have lived here so I can't speak of cold fluid whoas. Having lived in Western Mass many years I know of the cold slow shifts of automatics in below zero weather but I didn't use it there or even know of it. If like oil though, it has a much lower pour point and much higher boiling/flash point then the OEM stuff out there and as the rumors go, heat is the death of auto transmissions.

    As to gear oil though, there I have noticed a significant diffenrence with the ease of shifting and soothness of synthetic.
  • longo32longo32 Member Posts: 81
    The 'GM' oil for all their Eaton Superchargers in , Pontiac Bonnevilles, Grand Prixs,, Buick's Park Ave. Ultras, Auroras, etc. (and apologies, if I have missed anyone's favorite supercharged ride) looks like a doctor's prescription bottle. If anyone can make any sense out of the ingredients, these are the contents...."Fatty acids, C5-10, esters with dipentaerythritol-Phosphoric acid, (1, 1-dimethylethy) phenyl diphenyl ester."
    The only reason I mention this is...it has been suggested on this site that "an equivalent 5-30 synthetic" would also do for all those Supercharger, dirty oil changes that need to be done...(even though GM tells you not to)
    So..... all you Amsoil, Redline, Mobile 1, Shaeffers, and other Oilwizards out there, 'got any ideas?
  • fleetwoodsimcafleetwoodsimca Member Posts: 1,518
    Many thanks. I have saved the EXXON site URL and have briefly visited it. I will look more later.
  • smily1smily1 Member Posts: 104
    I have a GTP and now afraid to look at it after listening to your experience. I have talked to many owners of GTPs and havnt heard of very many eaton failures. If there is something better out there I sure would like to know. I dont trust GM that much. They just want the car to work past warrenty.
  • longo32longo32 Member Posts: 81
    smily1...Don't dispare, your Pontiac " should be good for at least 100,000 miles" before terminal bearing disease sets in. I am quoting another poster who has gone the distance, talking with GM (LOL) and Eatons, the parents of this product after his S/C started howling. Of course your warranty will be long gone by then, but the Supercharger bearings and gears run in a hostile, mechanical hell, and as such, has a predictable life span. Don't forget tho, they say, "should be". ( I have heard at the GM parts counters of S/C failures sooner than that.) For the 8oz. of oil in the nose section were all the friction and heat is produced, I am going to pull it out on every oil change. After all the obsessing we do over synthetic motor oil and high tech filters, $6.00 for a cup of fresh oil in the supercharger is the best service you could give your GTP. While you are at it with that little suction device, pull out all the power steering fluid you can get and you'll be surprised at how dirty it can be, too. Over my driving experience I have had to change out 2 complete power steering systems, the power racks and the pumps. So don't believe the auto companies when they say to 'just check it and don't woory, be happy.'
    That P/S fluid gets filthy, and full of metal debris worse than your engine ever will. (the P/S systems have no filters,nor does the supercharger) I feel like' the voice in the wilderness, but I am trying to be heard on this subject...stop losing sleep over obscure technical details of each particular brand of motor oil, wake up and realize that there are expensive, high stress, neglected wear items needing oil changes as well as your pampered motor that gets regular, state of the art, synthetic lubes, plus, the benefits of coolers and filters..The power steering units, superchargers and automatic transmissions all need love too.
  • fleetwoodsimcafleetwoodsimca Member Posts: 1,518
    And just consider that many of those areas that need attention are dead ended with no drains. This can mean a need for evacuating the fluids back out over the top lip of the holding chambers. I have found the MITYVAC pumping products to be wonderful adjuncts to this endeavor.
  • yurakmyurakm Member Posts: 1,345
    Found this: http://www.mityvac.com/kits.html is it right?
  • fleetwoodsimcafleetwoodsimca Member Posts: 1,518
    Great find! I have never seen that site before. I own the 06810 and the 07200. They are very handy and often used.
  • mdecampsmdecamps Member Posts: 115
    On small engines, say like a Briggs and Stratton or Honda, since they are air-cooled and run at much hotter temps, do you all think I would be better off w/a 15W50 synth? Thanks
  • adc100adc100 Member Posts: 1,521
    are designed to run on 30 wt. I would not go heavier unless you are doing something bizarre. They are known to outlive people on that diet.
  • csandstecsandste Member Posts: 1,866
    including multi-weight. No single weight oil under 40 degrees.


    Their web address for the required page is rediculously long and won't fit here.





    http://www.briggsandstratton.com

  • fleetwoodsimcafleetwoodsimca Member Posts: 1,518
    I've been running SuperTech 30 weight in all my small engines, including Briggs and Tecumseh.
  • longo32longo32 Member Posts: 81
    If you don't want to spend up to $80.00 today for a Mityvac system to get rid of that nasty polluted oil whizzing around in you cars private parts, a temporary, quick solution is to hook up a small diameter plastic or rubber line to a 'syringe' and suck it out a little at a time. You can then discharge that amount into a measured container to see how much you have to blow back in. Fish tank air hose will work, on mine I cut the plastic line off a old Windex trigger sprayer and stuck it on the syringe. Great Fun!
    My power steering pump is under so many lines and buried so deep at the back of the Buick engine compartment, that unless you have a map, you can't even find the damn thing.
    Using the 'suck it up' system, I was able to deal with another of GMs' Stupid Engineer Tricks'
  • yurakmyurakm Member Posts: 1,345
    A kind of map was put at factory under the hood of Regal: the schematics for belt. It shows where PS is located - behind and below alternator. Probably the same with Park Avenue Ultra.
  • knapp3knapp3 Member Posts: 112
    Let's get back to oil. So what do you guys think of Walmart (or any house brand for that matter) synthetic oil? Its a tad cheaper than name brands, like Mobil or Valvoline. Is a house brand syn better than any brand name dino or blend?
  • bluedevilsbluedevils Member Posts: 2,554
    In percentage terms, $2.97/qt (price I've seen at my local Wal-Marts) is significantly less than a $4 or $4.50/qt major-brand synthetic.

    I know the dino Super Tech is supposedly Quaker State, but I haven't heard any theories re: ST synth being QS also.
  • vader6vader6 Member Posts: 27
    Changed so called break in oil at 1400 miles with Mobil 1 5W-30W and idle speed went from 500 rpm to 650 rpms. Replaced oil filter with Mobil 1 filter.

    2002 Denali XL. Oil plug is magnetized and had 1/8" metal shavings. Engine has 66.4 hours.
  • mrdetailermrdetailer Member Posts: 1,118
    Amen. Unfortunately most of us don't find out about the need for regular changes until failure. Change and refill every 30K now.
  • vwracervwracer Member Posts: 90
    I would not bet that a house brand (also called private label) of oil bottled by a national brand is the same oil as the national brands own label. The house brand has less detergent, modifiers,or whatever other ingredients they put into the mix. I worked in the grocery business for many years. The store had it's own brand of bread. The bread salesman and the delivery driver for the bread company swore that the store label bread was exactly the same as the national brand bread. I meet a supervisor on the bakery line and he assured me there was a difference between store brand and national brand.
  • doitmyselfdoitmyself Member Posts: 24
    I used to buy NAPA brand oil because the counter person said it was made by Ashland (Valvoline) and was the same exact oil as Valvoline. I called Valvoline one day about another matter, and the tech. person said that NAPA oil is made by Valvoline, but it doesn't contain as good of additive package. So, with house brands you just never know.

    In a related case, a friend of mine just toured a major window factory and the people there said the windows they make for Home Depot are of lesser quality than their "standard" line. So, you feel good buying a name brand, but in fact, you are getting a lesser quality product.

    P.S. - I have no proof if any of this is the truth!
  • vwracervwracer Member Posts: 90
    I would not bet that a house brand (also called private label) of oil bottled by a national brand is the same oil as the national brands own label. The house brand has less detergent, modifiers,or whatever other ingredients they put into the mix. I worked in the grocery business for many years. The store had it's own brand of bread. The bread salesman and the delivery driver for the bread company swore that the store label bread was exactly the same as the national brand bread. I meet a supervisor on the bakery line and he assured me there was a difference between store brand and national brand.
  • knapp3knapp3 Member Posts: 112
    I'm not sure it's safe to assume any broad generalizations about what manufacturers put in house brands versus national brands. I've seen both sides of the debate. Some of my uncles work at an old Green Giant processing plant. The better vegetables on top of the cooker go into name brand cans, lesser quality vegetables from the bottom of the same cooker go into grocery store private label house brand cans. I work at a refrigerator plant. Believe me, Sears Kenmore refrigerators are as good and in may cases, have better features than you'll buy on ANY other brand. So when it comes to oil, I presume in the absence of any other evidence, that house brands are "good enough" if they meet the minimum API requirements to be labeled accordingly. Of course someone else's good or poor experience may be that "other evidence" I'm looking for.
  • joffficerjoffficer Member Posts: 169
    The difference in price just doesn't make sense. I'm amazed that people squabble over a couple bucks (every couple months to a year), but easily hand out money for lottery tickets, ATM fees, etc daily.
    If you like Quaker State, why buy the Super Tech that may or may not be as good as the real deal? If you can't afford the extra $3-5 (every 3 or more months) maybe your living over your means!
    Of course this is assuming you like your car, have owned it from new (or close), and want it to run for ever.
  • csandstecsandste Member Posts: 1,866
    On some things that can be measured, like oil filters, you have proof positive that the SuperTech is standard Champion Labs fare and that the only rule of thumb is that anything made by Fram sucks. Some OEM filters are Fram-- so you can never tell.


    Same thing with oil. Unlike vegetables, which in nature come in a variety of qualities, and can be sorted, it would be easiest for the supplier to simply buy the oil rather than to demand a lesser quality. After all, most of the cost in oil is in marketing and distribution channels, not the cost of individual additives.


    I quote from the Blackstone Labs oil analysis site:


    http://www.blackstone-labs.com/which_oil_to_use.html


    "You can go into any mass retailer (Wal-Mart, K-Mart, Meijer, etc.) that sells engine oil and buy a 10W/30 (or any other preferred grade) that will perform well in your engine. We don't know of any major retail chains selling their own oil brands that actually produce those products. They are quality oils produced by major oil companies. The only difference between these private labeled products and the major company brands is the container, and about 50¢ a quart.


    But wait! We do actually have a preference when it comes to buying oils for our personal use engines. That preference however, has little to do with brand names."


    Same thing with gasoline. In the St. Louis area QuikTrip dominates gasoline retailling and can control prices. Yet they own no refineries. I've had some people say they would not buy QT, only "major brands" like Amoco. Guess what, with the closing of one of the two area refineries, almost all gas in the St. Louis metro region is going to be Shell. People who insist on "major" brands may be steered to an independent dealer who might find it easier to cheat on what he was actually putting in his storage tank. You can bet QT, controlling their outlet isn't going to take that chance.


    Same with oil. Several years ago I saw an expose on an autoparts retailler which was selling "black market" oil with name brands that didn't even have any detergent in it. Wal-Mart's not going to take that chance. I'm not a huge believer in Quaker State, and I think it's entirely likely that Wal-Mart might switch its contracts to Valvoline in the future if they could save three cents a quart. On the otherhand Quaker State has merged with Pennzoil and will shortly merge again, so brand loyalty, as such means little IMHO.

  • fleetwoodsimcafleetwoodsimca Member Posts: 1,518
    Don't overlook the prospect that changing the formulation of a motor oil for a private label, while maintaining the formulation for the name brand is likely an unrealistic expense that a motor oil "manufacturer" would not want to bear. If fulfilling the Walmart contract changes the work routine only at the bottle labelling machine, that is a winner for Quaker State, eh?
  • csandstecsandste Member Posts: 1,866
    Any SL/ILSAC 3 oil is probably very good indeed. Especially with a 4000 mile change interval.
  • bluedevilsbluedevils Member Posts: 2,554
    My problem with that statement is this: it is very difficult for the average, or even the savvy, customer to "know" what is good and what is not. Even the folks here on this board, who are way more into oil than 99.9% of American car owners, have a hard time determining which of the oils is better, contains better stuff, etc. than the others.

    Especially with the ever-changing oil company climate due to mergers and acquisitions, it's very difficult to "buy what you know is good" because it's darn-near impossible to know what is good to any degree of certainty.

    3 months ago I was telling people on the Isuzu Trooper and Kia Sedona boards that synthetic blend oil is a waste of money and, to me, major-brand full synthetic was worth the extra cost. In the past 3 months, I have totally changed my tune based on what I've read on the oil-related Edmunds boards.

    I have no idea what's good and what isn't, even though I would really like to know. At best, I'm making an educated guess.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    #3132

    Perhaps the greatest utility of the rating systems is that it makes the product a commodity. Marketing likes to make the product being marketed to stand out. So I think that given the standards, you really don't have a lot to worry about. In fact you can buy on price or even because you like the color on the container, Wally Marts house brand, or even as stupid as "DUNG BEETLE JUICE". (Again, given the standard)
  • taasstaass Member Posts: 40
    The rise in idle RPM is unlikely due to oil. The engine management computer sets and maintains idle RPM. The result of lower internal resistance would not be higher idle RPM, but, instead, lower fuel requirement at the same RPM. Perhaps the ECU bumps the idle up after an initial break in period.

    1/8" metal shavings don't sound encouraging. That is rare (at least for me), and I drive good ol' American steel. It stands to reason that if that continues then you have a problem.
  • fleetwoodsimcafleetwoodsimca Member Posts: 1,518
    As the art of SYNTHETIC stands today, with polyalphaolephins strung together in the laboratory, using a blend of nature-made chains with these lab-made chains is like mixing two brands of ketchup! It's all ketchup. Now, if you want a synthetic that is far superior to petroleum, then opt for the diester or polyol ester brews. In that arena, a blend with PAO's is a true degradation.
  • bluedevilsbluedevils Member Posts: 2,554
    If I'm not willing to step up to something like Amsoil, Redline, etc.-- and I'm not-- then I am kinda wasting my money on Mobil 1 or any other PAO synthetic?
  • ywilsonywilson Member Posts: 135
    vehicle and I have used it for some time. Yes it costs a little more but it is for my piece of mind that I do it. I want to be sure that I am using the best product in my engine and to me Amsoil is it. I keep vehicles forever. I cannot justify for myself turning in a vehicle for a new one every 2 to 3 years if it is in perfect working order. I baby my vehicles and they do last past 250,000 miles on my previous ones. My filters are also amsoil but from the filter comparisons I have been reading about in the town hall I may switch to Mobil 1 filters. They seem to be very comparible to the Amsoil filters, and cheaper to buy. I do ALOT of highway driving and I want the extra piece of mind that all the mileage I am racking up is not as detrimental to my engine if I were using products that were not as reliable.
  • tdi90hptdi90hp Member Posts: 20
    Been reading lots from lots of people. Here is a true story sitting in my driveway. 92 camry Le 4 cylinder 5 speed. got Dino oil till 120,000 miles with regular 3000 mile changes. At 120k I switched to Mobil 1 synthetic and it currently just turned over 330,000 miles on it (535,000kms as I am canadian). maybe Synthetic is not worth it to some but to ME it is very worthwhile in lack of having to change my car as often. Car burns a quart every 6000miles. Oil is changed every 6000 miles and filter changed every 3000miles. I use Pure One or Fram Double guard filters. Synthetics WORK!!! Plain and simple.
    Claude in Tillsonburg, Ontario
  • bluedevilsbluedevils Member Posts: 2,554
    "Synthetics WORK!!! Plain and simple."

    Yes they do. And so do petrol-based oils.

    Testimonials such as yours are helpful, and I enjoy reading them. But to quote one of my favorite statements from Psychology 101:

    "Correlation is not causation."
  • bluedevilsbluedevils Member Posts: 2,554
    Does Mobil offer its Mobil 1 Tri-Synthetic in 5W20 weight? A couple guys on the Isuzu Trooper board think they're running Mobil 1 5W20, but I didn't think this oil existed. Mobil1.com does not list 5W20.

    I don't know why they would want to run 5W20 with the Trooper anyway, since Isuzu does not specify/require 5W20.
  • tdi90hptdi90hp Member Posts: 20
    Hey Blue devil maybe correlation does not cause causatian but my favorite expression from life is "where there is smoke there is fire". every single over 500,000 kms car I have heard of in the past 5 years that still runs well and has a head as clean as mine with no visible marks or scuffing or wear on the cam lobes belongs to an owner who is careful and uses synthetics!!!
    In Canada in February that Dino crap does not even pour at 20 below Zero. I'll stick with Mobil 1 or a top synthetic until somebody proves me wrong. My lexus LS 400 has it and my Camaro Z-28 that has been stored for 4 months has it. By the way just started it today after sleeping for 4 months and it started like it had been parked yesterday. Why?? Synthetics certainly helped as the oil pressure came up instantly. My old 5.0liter mustang use to achingly get to its proper oil pressure when I had Dino oil in it. Once I switched to Mobil1, BAM the oil Pressure came right up when cold.
    YES, I have lots of correlation and experience with 4-5 cars with synthetics and my causation says stick with synthetics!!!
    Claude in Tillsonburg.
  • bluedevilsbluedevils Member Posts: 2,554
    You said "every single over 500,000 kms car I have heard of in the past 5 years that still runs well and has a head as clean as mine with no visible marks or scuffing or wear on the cam lobes belongs to an owner who is careful and uses synthetics!!!"

    This certainly strengthens your claim. And your claim may well be 100% true. I have nothing to disprove it. In fact, I am inclined to agree with you. All I was trying to point out is people should not think that something very general ('synthetics are better') is 100% true based only on individual experiences.

    Especially for your cold-weather circumstances, synthetic seems to make good sense.

    However, the discussion here has led me to believe that the differences between the current oils sold as "synthetics" and the "conventional" SL-rated oils are narrower than ever before. My personal conclusion has been that I will stop using Mobil 1 when my supply runs out and I will instead use one of the major-brand SL-rated petrol-based oil that contains hydrocracked base stocks.
  • bobistheoilguybobistheoilguy Member Posts: 270
    to put my 2cents worth in on this subject. Unfortunatly I am limited on time at this time but real quick, I have a friend has a nissan has 573,000 original miles with never haveing taken the valve covers off. Still driving it, and has been using a synthblend. said he was going to run it till 600,000 miles then pull the valve cover.

    another one, has a dodge 4cyl van, excess 450,000 miles. he too, a blend.

    anyway, i have some valuable points to bring but need to get back to work. I will post later,
    have a good day.
    bob
  • bobistheoilguybobistheoilguy Member Posts: 270
    GF-4 Motor Oil Due in One Year By David McFall Work is underway in earnest on the next upgrade of passenger car motor oils. Representatives of the auto, oil and additive industries say the new specification, ILSAC GF-4, will demand that oils go easier on emission system catalysts, allow better gas mileage and provide better engine protection. The upgrade faces an ambitious schedule, especially when compared to the five years it took to develop its predecessor, GF-3, which was adopted last year. The auto industry’s timeline for GF-4 calls for first use on April 1, 2003 – just one year out – with mandatory use on October 1, 2003. Pressure to commercialize a new engine oil in sync with the 2004 tightening of emissions limits is inexorable. An inter-industry panel, ILSAC/OIL, is at the fore in moving toward GF-4. Bob Olree of General Motors is chairman of the panel, which includes three other automaker representatives: Toyota’s John Shipinski, DaimlerChrysler’s Tracey King and Ford’s Charlie Sherwood. Oil industry representatives are Pennzoil-Quaker State’s Cliff Venier and Valvoline’s Thom Smith, as API members, with Pinnacle Oil’s Harji Gill as the alternate. The chemical additives industry is represented by Ciba Specialty Chemicals’ Glenn Mazzamaro, with Rich Lee of Chevron Oronite as alternate. The panel’s current task is to develop a needs statement. For GF-3, that task alone took 15 months. The ILSAC/OIL panel hopes to complete this task by April or May of this year. A March 27 ILSAC/OIL working paper from the panel identified the primary GF-4 need as “[a] reduction of the effects of poisoning of catalyst and emission system components to meet 2004 model year emissions limits. One of the most demanding requirements is a limit of 0.07 g/mile NOx at 120,000 miles." The document identifies the perils of existing phosphorus and sulfur levels. GF-3 caps the former at 0.1 mass percent but does not quantify a limit for the latter. “The levels of phosphorus and sulfur commonly used in current GF-3 oils have been shown to damage catalysts,” the report says. 2004 model year cars will be in showrooms by mid-2003, and it is imperative that new GF-4 oils, with levels of phosphorus and sulfur that do not damage catalysts, be available at the same time. Besides additional protection of emissions systems, ILSAC/OIL wants the next generation of motor oils to provide better fuel economy and an increase in both the retention and durability of fuel economy improvement, relative to GF-3. The March 27 paper also calls for improved robustness of engine oil to better protect future engines, specifically during high-temperature, high-load operations. Further, low-temperature rheological properties must be defined to reduce the possibility of field failures due to low-temperature viscosities. Much of the anxiety at this stage in the GF-3 process came from the prospect of developing five brand-new engine tests, with no alternatives or backups waiting in the wings. All sides agree that development of these tests was a major reason for GF-3’s two year delay. GF-4, on the other hand, has three new engine tests, two of which have a viable alternative, and one (Sequence IIIG) which has been in development for nine months. The tests are: (1) The Oil Protection of Emission Systems Test, OPEST, a Ford-sponsored test that measures the catalyst poisoning effect of engine oil, under development at Southwest Research Institute. Sources say that OPEST will not be completed in time for inclusion in GF-4. The acceptable alternative is to continue a chemical limit on phosphorus – an additive known to poison catalysts – by reducing it from GF-3’s level of 0.10 percent mass to between 0.05 percent and 0.08 percent. Phosphorus, however, is also a well-known, widely used antiwear agent. Prototype GF-4 oils, with lower phosphorus content and different antiwear agents, are currently undergoing laboratory and field tests to demonstrate that wear protection can be maintained using these oils. This test regime should be completed by mid-year. (2) The Ford-sponsored Sequence VIC test is designed to measure the fuel economy benefits of an engine oil after aging. The “C” version of this test is basically an extension of the “B” version, a current requirement of GF-3, which can serve as the GF-4 fuel economy measurement backup test. (3) The third test, GM’s Sequence IIIG, measures wear and oxidation and will be a requirement for GF-4. GM’s Olree reports that they are focusing on resolving a scuffing issue. GF-4 oil, specifically formulated for new emissions systems at high mileage, must also protect engines in all earlier light-duty vehicles. The issue of “backward compatibility” is still unresolved. Later this month API will outline a way forward with a non-backward compatible GF-4 oil, and ILSAC will present a proposal on how to demonstrate backward compatibility.
  • bluedevilsbluedevils Member Posts: 2,554
    I, like everyone else, anxiously await your additional comments.

    Re: the article you posted:

    "the new specification, ILSAC GF-4, will demand that oils go easier on emission system catalysts..."

    I sincerely hope this is the case. The catalytic converters on my 95 Ford Contour were just replaced, for the second time, and the car has only 71,000 miles. This seems to be a very common problem on the Contour. How a set of cats could be good for only 30-40k miles is beyond my comprehension. At least my major emissions warranty is 8 years/80,000 miles, so the car was covered both times.
  • armtdmarmtdm Member Posts: 2,057
    Interesting. I use Amsoil which is supposedly higher in ZDDP and phosphorus then other oils and according to Bob is part of the reason it cannot get API certified. Well, I have never replaced a cat converter on a car as yet. Camry 143,000 used since 1000 miles. Ford Mercury Mystique purchased at 30,000 switched and now at 67,000 still original cat. In my experience I see no correlation between the additives you mention and premature wear of the cats.

    Perhaps failure to heat the engine up every time you start it.?????
  • fleetwoodsimcafleetwoodsimca Member Posts: 1,518
    I really appreciate your process on this topic. I think the hypothesis you have developed, proposing that using API SL graded motor oil with the expectation that it will be a reasonable replacement for "true" synthetic oil, is valid. the bad news comes from b.istheo.g., and I thank him for the heads up. We needn't get too attached to SL! What letter will follow S this next time? It reminds me of the USPS. I literally have some of the original "no denomination" stamps that are assigned an understood value of 34 cents each. I MAY get them used up before the 37(?) cent rate becomes effective. I MAY NOT get to my couple of cases of SL Chevron before the next oil standard becomes effective!
  • bobistheoilguybobistheoilguy Member Posts: 270
    it's not me saying it does, just passing on what they say is the problem. I truly believe that a poorly tuned up engine causes more damage than the zddp levels. but what do i know.

    i've got to get a picture posted before i go on with the synth and protection issue i plan on discussing. hopefully i will have it done before the week end.
  • armtdmarmtdm Member Posts: 2,057
    I was curious as to the ownership of Blackstone as some people that have posted here and use Mobil 1 appear to receive ( I guess what I consider) biased reports or comments from the lab techs as well as (I also feel) poor feedback/interpretation. Anyway, I asked Blackstone specifically about ownership and whether they were a division or subsidiary of another company or privately owned. Their reply follows. Note, they did not answer the div. or sub issue of who owns it, avoided that but did state that they have no conflict of interest with engine oil producers! Still would like to know who owns them? They have not replied to a follow up question specifically on who owns them?

    Reply:We are an independent laboratory not affiliated with any oil company, refinery, manufacturer, or distributor.

    We sell no product.

    We provide a service, oil analysis, to private individuals, industries, truck fleets, and aircraft owners.

    We publish no opinions on any types or brands of oils.

    Thank you for your interest -

    Sue Stark
    Blackstone Laboratories
  • bluedevilsbluedevils Member Posts: 2,554
    "Perhaps failure to heat the engine up every time you start it.?????"

    That may have happened regularly with the previous owner, as they put few miles on the car. However, they had the cats changed at 40k miles, then I bought the car at 50k. By 70k the car was not really drivable due to almost no power and rough running.

    My trip to work is 15 miles one way, with 5 miles of freeway around 75mph. So since I bought the car, I'm usually getting the engine to a pretty good operating temperature, I think.
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